Bastard Game

Bastard Game

by Max on January 7, 2010

I have never considered myself a Player.  When searching for a good bad time, I consider sex more a consequence than a goal.

Whatever happens, I am not going out of my way for a woman I’ve just met.

In fact, I generally refuse to go out of my way for women I know. Experience has left me wanting in the “Trust” Department.  If someone is merely an acquaintance, much different than a friend, I’ll sooner spill a drink on the floor than go out of my way for them.

Game is a social skill-set for the effective knocking over of ass.  However, no skill-set is perfect.  Everyone has different aptitudes, and everyone’s Game needs tweaking to find what works for them.

Game is about being an Alpha-male.  By demonstrating your higher position in the social hierarchy, you become more attractive to the opposite sex.

I read about Game for amusement more than anything.  There is something sad about grown men who privately worship women as sexual objects, but then whine about “pedestallers”.  For misogynists, they draw an awful lot of validation from the women they seek to conquer.  It’s like a hetero ‘Broken Hearts Club‘.

If you follow the Mystery Method to the letter and spend four hours a night out “working your game”, reconsider your priorities.  I don’t care if it works.  Get a gym membership.

After reading a  tongue-in-cheek breakdown of various styles of Game, I thought about it what style (or combination of styles) matches what I pass off as “Game”.

It isn’t strictly Asshole Game.  It certainly isn’t Cool Guy Game.

It’s Max Game.  It’s Bastard Game.

I have decided to break down  my style by parts to better explain it.  Think of it as Strategy and Tactics.

First, the Rules:

Rule 1: Be Indifferent

With the exception of your mother, no woman is special.  The only
reason a man treats a woman special is if he wants something from her.
She will assume that what you ‘want’ is her ass.  She will be right.
This puts her in charge.

If this happens, you have just lost.   At this point, you may as well
ask for her permission to fuck her.  Asking is begging.  Begging is
contemptible.

Rule 2: Proffer No Excuse

Do not apologise.  You do not need a woman’s approval.  She needs
yours.  She wants your validation.  If you apologise, you are asking
for her approval.  See Rule 1.

Rule 3: Work the Help

If you are in any place for more than a night, get familiar with
the local color.  Go out early, talk to waitresses, bartenders and
bouncers.  Don’t look for favors, just act friendly.  Tip well.

When you can walk in a place and shake hands with the employees on your way to the bar, you don’t need to know the owner.  This is Social Proof.

Rule 4: Never Let ‘em See You Sweat

Always maintain your bearing.  Everything you do is easy, even when it isn’t.  Swagger.  You’ve heard it, seen it, and done it.  Treat everything and everyone with mild amusement, mild curiosity, or mild disgust.  No one needs to know your limits.

Rule 5: Never Compete With Women

Darts.  Pool.  Conversation.  Never let them see you try.  If you win, you did it with one hand tied behind your back.  If they win, it is because you let them.

Never try to impress a woman.  Be impressive.  The difference is in the effort.  If it looks like approval seeking behavior, it is.  See Rule 1.

Never mind the fact that there is No Honor in it.

Rule 6: Men Are More Important Than Women

Treat other guys with respect.  You may be competing for the same resource, but you’re still on the same team.  Treating other men well acts as Social Proof.

Treat Betas like your kid brother and you’ll earn Alpha credit.  Treat other Alphas respectfully, as equals, and you can avoid unnecessary conflict.  If you’re trying to knock over some ass, fighting is counter-productive.

Don’t get overzealous with your anti-male negs.  Keep it in proportion.  If he’s busting your balls, let him be the one putting out the obvious effort.  Females will pick up on his eagerness to one-up you, and you’ll look more alpha for being casual and indifferent.

Being unnecessarily aggressive toward other men in front of women is bad form.  It’s negative Social Proof.  You’ll either look a) intimidated, and therefore approval seeking (see Rule 1) or b) you’ll appear dangerous.  Bad boy charm goes out the window if women think you will actually throw them in your trunk.

Women will ignore the obvious monster in front of them as long as they don’t have to see its teeth.

Just ask Ted Bundy.

Rule 7: Never Humiliate

Long before I’d ever heard of Game, the use of Negs was natural to me.  Negging is a normative part of male behavior.  Men bust balls constantly.  Women think they understand this practice, but they don’t.  They cannot tell the difference between ball busting and an insult.

Ball busting is a sign of trust.  ”Look at me, I can insult you (within certain limits) because you and I understand that I mean no offense.”

Negging exists very near the event horizon of a slippery slope.  Negging a girl, particularly if she is part of a group, and especially if that group includes any males, can blow up in your face.  Females occasionally take negging as ball busting, and counter as such.  Females are adept at picking out weaknesses – they set at each other like a murder of crows at carrion – and will sometimes up the ante with particularly vicious comments.

Be wary of how you Neg.  You might be able to read a girl’s nine abortions and her “Weird Uncle” story in her eyes, but calling her on it will invariably lead to violence.

Regardless of a person’s race, rank, or gender, Humiliation is the fastest way to spark a brawl.

This covers the Macro-Strategy section of Bastard Game.  7 is a perfect number for rules.  Any more or less and I will invariably get drunk and completely forget them.  As it is, I will invariably get drunk and completely forget them.

Fairly standard stuff, from a Gaming perspective.  The real Devil is in the details.

Tactics

Carefree, mocking, violent.  Thus wisdom wants us.

For she is a woman, she always loves a man of war.”

- NietzscheGenealogy of Morals

Bastard Game was designed to help cultivate a specific posture.

Alphas rise to the top of their social hierarchy because they embody manliness.  They become leaders in their group, sometimes in spite of themselves, because they demonstrate the most Alpha traits.  There is one Alpha trait that supersedes the rest:  Strength.

All Game relies on the presentation of Alpha male qualities.  Bastard Game forgoes some of the basic tactics of other styles to focus on one thing:

Rule 1: Be Indifferent

No matter what happens, don’t give a fuck.  Don’t care.  Do not put yourself out for anyone.  Don’t lift one finger, don’t bat one eyelash. This isn’t a false posture.  Indifference is the luxury of the Alpha male.  He is calm and composed because, whatever happens, he can handle it.

Bastard Game: Tactics

Opening:

1. Never Approach.  Game is like magic, it falls apart at the seams if the audience knows the trick.  The more a woman has been approached, the more savvy she will be to your approach, no matter how subtle.

In order to close the distance, consider:

The Drive-By:  Open on the move.  You are a walking, negging machine.  If you’re with a wingman, even better.  You’ll already be in conversation and you can casually toss a comment over your shoulder.  Is it an approach?  . . . eh.  Not if you couldn’t care less and keep on walking.

The Tactical Advantage:  Being parked in an approachable position is a good thing.  Sitting at the bar seems ideal – you’re automatically talking over your shoulder, for one – but there are too many distractions (i.e. the bartender).  Find the high-ground, where people must approach or pass you on your terms.

2. Subliminal Social Proof. Remember Rule 3 – if you’re in a familiar place, then you’ll be shaking hands with everyone from the bouncer to the bartender.  Every person you talk to publicly builds your Social Proof.  The more others notice, the less strange it will seem if you randomly drop a comment in their lap.

If you’re in a strange place, have a wing come in a few minutes late.  Give yourself enough time to get the layout.  Grab some tactical advantage, or move near a set, and let your wing run into you.  He is so glad to see you that he’ll even buy you a round.

If you’re solo, make new friends.  Men are more important than women.  If you’re truly leader of the pack, nothing will show it better than the way other men act around you.  Once they start telling you stories to impress you, start making that face that attractive women make when a man is boring them.

You are an Alpha.  People are glad to know you, and they want to make you happy.  Seeking a female’s attention overtly is like asking for approval.  Asking is begging.  Don’t ask them to be interested in you, make them feel out of place if they are not.

3Turnabout.  This is always fair play.  Females always arrive in groups, they dress the part, their value is obvious.  That is, their valuables are obvious.  All of this is bait – Come impress me, Mr. Alpha.  Win my approval.

Asking is begging, and begging is contemptible.  Even from a female.

They display all of these approval-seeking behaviors.  Deny them that approval.  Only open a set enough to start a conversation.  Fuck your routines.  Don’t run off at the mouth with stupid stories.

Opening a set is nothing more than an invitation for them to entertain you.  You are the Alpha male.  You know your worth.  Now let them prove theirs to you.  Beauty alone isn’t enough – you’ve seen it before – you aren’t swayed by it.  They have to demonstrate real value. Let them buy you drinks, or else just offer to blow you in the bathroom.

Working a Set:

1Neg, Neg, Neg.  Remember, this isn’t about their approval, it’s about yours.  Make them want it, then dole it out in small doses.

2.  Smile.  Let them see you smile . . . at other people.  Smile when you talk to your wing before you open.  Smile when you talk to the Staff.  Smile for females, not at them.  They’ll have to earn it.

Wait for them to give you Indicators of Interest.  After a few, feed a smile.  Work your own Indicators sparingly, like Pavlovian conditioning.  If you have her on the hook, she’ll escalate for you.  Once she does, follow suit.

3Bounce.  As soon as you have her/them/it on the hook, get the fuck out of there.  Once escalation starts, it’s only a matter of time before the location gets stale and your Game stalls.

Express displeasure at your surroundings.  Demand to change them.

Either regard the new venue as more interesting, and use the girls you hooked for Social Proof as you work the new place . . .

OR

Be skeptical of the new venue’s ability to please you.  Turn your attention back to the girls, inviting them to please you.

Closing:

1.  Fuck Numbers.  If anyone should be giving out their phone number, it’s you.  If she’s really interested, she’ll call.

2. Plan B.  In case your swaggering Alpha demeanor intimidates her, strike up a tentative plan to do something, somewhere, sometime soon.  It gives her an excuse to call you.

3.  Escalate.  If you’re not escalating her skirt by now, lose interest.


You can read more of Max’s barely recollected philosophical musings at http://www.fkinonline.com/This article is a re-post of material that first appeared there.


{ 84 comments… read them below or add one }

Chuck January 7, 2010 at 03:25

“There is something sad about grown men who privately worship women as sexual objects, but then whine about “pedestallers”. For misogynists, they draw an awful lot of validation from the women they seek to conquer.”

It’s only when the Gamer achieves a Zen-like mindset that he can actually attract women. He wants a woman, but he doesn’t want any particular woman too badly.

The pedestaller takes the collective energy of sexual desire and – like a magnified sunbeam aimed towards an ant – focuses it all on one woman. The Gamer (the successful one) doesn’t do that. He leaves the energy of sexual desire fragmented and lets the woman – in her own way – focus all of her energy on *him*. It’s the handling of that energy focus and the dynamic of it that seperates pedestalers from Gamers.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 05:25

Jesus, 99 rules and a lot of work for something that will just happen if you stop cock-blocking yourself.

1/ look her in the eye, hold it.

2/ keep your mouth shut. say little, hear all.

end of

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The Caliph January 7, 2010 at 05:43

Thank you Afor,

All this psyhoanalysis over the female. Its really as simple as that folks.

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Kave January 7, 2010 at 07:33

I’m glad I didn’t have to put this much work into getting laid. Get eye contact and have a decent conversation always worked for me back in the day.

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Jack Donovan January 7, 2010 at 07:43

Actually, I think Max’s point is that the key is really not giving a shit. I took this piece as frank observations from someone who really isn’t desperate or confused.

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Fair question January 7, 2010 at 07:44

AfOR, Caliph, Kave:

How do you hold eye contact and listen when the river of mindless drivel coming out of her mouth bores you to tears and makes you want to run away?

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 07:52

@ fair question

How do you hold eye contact and listen when the river of mindless drivel coming out of her mouth bores you to tears and makes you want to run away?

walk on by ffs

there no shortage of fish in the sea.

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Krauser January 7, 2010 at 08:01

Look her in the eye, keep your mouth shut?

Yeah right. That’ll work just great in day game. The girl walking down the street with her shopping is certain to stop, open you, and keep the conversation rolling. The girl in the art gallery is gonna want to lock eyes with you and start talking.

Absolute fucking bullshit. That minimalist “game” will work in one situation and one only – a pissed easy chick in a nightclub who happens to find you physically attractive.

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dragnet January 7, 2010 at 08:41

“Actually, I think Max’s point is that the key is really not giving a shit.”

Yes—but about what exactly? About women? A woman? About one’s natural biological urges toward them?

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Firepower January 7, 2010 at 08:52

This post is stamped with

The Firepower SEAL of Approval

It’s a meticulously well thought out strategy applied in a unique way that makes the practitioner think from another angle; this is always a good idea.

It took a lot of effort – I like it. That’s high praise from a man who could damn the Nativity for being a stupid idea.

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Krauser January 7, 2010 at 09:14

BTW, liked the post itself. Not too convinced on its effectiveness, but memorably written.

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 09:18

The article’s advice seems to accurately reflect methods I have observed to be quite effective.

The advice in the comments, on the other hand, seem to be essentially the same as the strategy I have actively observed to only be effective for people in the top 10 or 20% in terms of physical attractiveness. For those of us who are in that top 10 to 20%, it is presumably difficult to fathom the experience of those of us who are not…but if you want some degree of evidence that this phenomenon is real, consider that female OkCupid users rated 80% of male Okcupid users as having below average physical attractiveness.

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Rebel January 7, 2010 at 09:41

I know a guy who is an artist at picking women. His approach is very simple: it’s a question of numbers.

He goes around and asks females the only question that pops up in his mind:”Do you want to sleep with me tonight?”.
He gets ten “no’s” and one “yes”. He knows that it’s a simple number game. It works for him impeccably because he doesn’t fear rejection. He says “Plenty of fish”.
And since he plays catch and release, he’s never out of sex…

Need I say that he barely makes it as a beta male, yet, the number of his scores is impressive.

He plays on the positive side of feminism: sluttiness.

So simple, yet so easy.

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Zorro January 7, 2010 at 10:12

what do you mean with Never Humiliate? I kind got lost in that rule, could you explain that a bit more

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 10:21

Krauser January 7, 2010 at 08:01

Look her in the eye, keep your mouth shut?

Yeah right. That’ll work just great in day game. The girl walking down the street with her shopping is certain to stop, open you, and keep the conversation rolling. The girl in the art gallery is gonna want to lock eyes with you and start talking.

Absolute fucking bullshit. That minimalist “game” will work in one situation and one only – a pissed easy chick in a nightclub who happens to find you physically attractive.

————————–

Krauser, the WORST place it works (but it does still work) is a pissed chick in a nightclub, dark, noisy, chromal lighting, all great things to short change a mark, but no use for anything else except the desperate trying to get a last minute pull.

it is your pathetic addiction to the “game” bullshit that leads you to make stupid comments like this… the girl walking down the street with her shopping will stop.

art gallery? for fucks sake, that is as easy as a bus stop, the girl is stationary and right away there is a subject for her to open conversation with…

forget your game crap, it is for losers.

be yourself jack, you can pick up (I have) in funerals, cemeteries, church, ER, courts, bus stations, train stations, ferry terminals, airports, road traffic accidents, doctors waiting rooms, just about anywhere.

the *only* place that doesn’t work (never tried it myself, never been in one) apparently is the family planning / STD clinic.

And you call YOURSELF a pick up artist!!!

Jesus H Christ.

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 10:47

AfOR–

Your claim that women will stop and talk to you as long as you maintain eye contact and be yourself is largely inaccurate to most men’s experience. It is, as near as I can tell, true of the men who are in the top 10% or so in terms of physical attractiveness, and entirely false for everyone else. It is likely to be particularly frustrating to men in the lower 50% of physical attractiveness, since they (in the sort of circumstances of Day Game Krauser mentioned) find it mostly impossible to get eye-contact to ever start without saying anything, so the advice to maintain it is largely useless.

Your advice is not wrong…it’s just hugely insufficient to what most men need.

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Jabherwochie January 7, 2010 at 10:52

“Negging exists very near the event horizon of a slippery slope.”

Poetry gold. Consider it stolen (and maybe sometimes altered with the interchanging of the first word for something else appropriate.)

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Jabherwochie January 7, 2010 at 11:08

Yeah, game is naturally easier for good looking men. I’m not a looker. Worse than being ugly, I am cute and non threatening. Nothing dries up a pussy faster than falling into little brother zone (I just came up with that, am I first). I’m actually edgy by nature, guys love me, all that, but after so much rejection early in life, I clammed up and panicked when interacting with women. That was, until my resentment for them turned into mild contempt, and that allowed me to be my natural smart ass self. I still had to put myself out there, spit a lot of shit, attract attention with my words. I was too easy to overlook otherwise.

Like the author states, game needs to be adjusted to the individual, just like martial arts. Find what works for you, what your skill sets strengthen. I made sure to always sketch whichever chick I was dating as soon as possible. I’d act like I was spontaniously inspired. That always makes them feel special. I never got real good with women. I think I would be now, but I did reach a level that I could pull leg once and a while. I got cock blocked a lot. Something to do with my looks again I think. Other men probably saw me as non-threatening too. I enjoyed that when shit talkers would start fights with me, but I didn’t know what to do when I guy would isolate the girl I was working. I just folded.

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Clarence January 7, 2010 at 11:10

AfOR you are an idiot who deserves to be banned.

I haven’t seen you bring a single thing to any conversation you’ve been involved with besides shaming language and the ability to beat on your chest and chant how “manly” you are.

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 11:13

Calrence the “nice” guy wants to have someone banned lol

I guess the niceness doesn’t carry over to everyone huh lol

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 11:13

@Arbitrary

You might have a point, if I was a top 10% specimen.

I’m not…

In fact your whole comment is symptomatic of all game fanatics that I have met, you haven’t got the first clue about women.

I’m not trying to be insulting, I am being serious.

Women are thinking about sex 100% of the time, every single man they see is “sized up” as a possible sexual partner.

What works;

rule 0 (unspoken but obvious)
know this, eg think “You want sex”

rule 1
eye contact

rule 2
mouth shut

what doesn’t work;

subscribing to all sorts of bullshit theories about women, such as;

men think about sex more than women
men want sex more than women
men sleep around more than women
men are more into casual sex than women

and biggest of all

you need “game” or some other bullshit to overcome these imaginary and non existent barriers.

Here is the straight shit buddy.

a/ Women think about sex 100% of the time, every single man they see is checked out.

b/ Women check out men and categorise them as one of two types only, type 1 will impregnate them, type 2 will stick around and look after them.

c/ women have no use for type 2 until after type 1 has germinated the seed, got that? NO USE WHATSOEVER for type 2 until pregnant

d/ 99.99% of men today pretend to be type 2, LO-SERS…

e/ women do not form exclusive bonds with either type 1 or type 2

There, that is all you need to know to pick up women walking down the street with shopping, etc etc etc.

Shit, I have gone to foreign countries where the culture is entirely different and I could not speak a single word of the language, and gotten laid as easy as at home, proof positive that “game” is bullshit.

get this through your head, women want to fuck AT LEAST as much as yer average ball aching 16 year old boy….

simple mathematics prove it…

a man can impregnate a million women in his life time, a woman cannot impregnate ANYONE else, she is limited to her own stock of eggs, one every 4 weeks for 30/35 years or so…

the best thing she can possibly do is have as much sperm as possible competing for each egg.

fuck it dude, do you know any guys who read the “gor” books, much less have the entire collection? know any guys with rape fantasies? know any guys who fancy being “taken” by strong mysterious strangers?

A very good friend of mine works in a hospital blood lab, he is extremely experienced and extremely good at his job… by his reckoning an absolute MINIMUM of 40% of children are not fathered by the man who thinks he fathered them.

He reckons if DNA testing for paternity at birth was mandatory we’d see that number jump up to 75/80%

“Ah well, he takes after his (dead, no-one has seen him, ever) grandfather on my side, who was a real redhead”

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 11:19

Clarence January 7, 2010 at 11:10

AfOR you are an idiot who deserves to be banned.

I haven’t seen you bring a single thing to any conversation you’ve been involved with besides shaming language and the ability to beat on your chest and chant how “manly” you are.

—————————–

Clarence, you talk like a bitch, I mean that, seriously, not as an insult, but as a fact.

take your “shaming language” and “chest beating” and stick it where the sun don’t shine….

“It’s like a penis, only smaller….”

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 11:40

Clarence, I’m a man, I don’t need or want another man to white-knight for me.

AfOR…

You are correct, women do think about sex as much as men…they immediately categorize every man whose existence they consciously register as either “sexual prospect” or “not sexual prospect”. This decision is made based largely on non-verbal behaviors from before he ever opens his mouth–if she notices his presence at all before that point.

However, for most men, “being themselves” will guarantee that they get put in category 2 rather than category 1. Game is about systematizing the behaviors–both verbal and nonverbal–that get you put and kept in category 1 rather than category 2. You then make these behaviors a part of who you are, and suddenly “being yourself” really is all it takes–but for people where these behaviors don’t come naturally, learning Game is crucial.

Tangentially, in answer to your questions: “fuck it dude, … mysterious strangers?” Yes to knowing males who have admitted to the latter two, no way to know for sure re: the first one. I blame the phyto-estrogens in our food and the Estrogen in the water supply.

Those statistics are higher than other reports I’ve heard, but there really is no reliable data, so it’s hard for me to estimate with any certainty.

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 11:42

AfOR, like many people naturally good at something, you may have a hard time grasping that other people don’t find some things trivial or obvious. That doesn’t mean that the other people are lying when they tell you that they don’t automatically get it.

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Jabherwochie January 7, 2010 at 11:56

To further Arbitrary’s point;

AFOR, why can’t you paint someones portrait. I just look at what I see and my mind tells my hand to paint it. Where I see a line, I paint a line, where I see a color, I put that color. Its fucking simple. I barely think about it. I just look at something and paint it. You go and read all your books about how to paint, but all you need to do is two things;

1. Look at what you want to paint

2. Paint what you see

For fucks sake!

(AFOR. I didn’t even realize the full extent of body language until I read a book about it in 7th grade. What you are saying is like a natually funny comedian saying, “Jesus. Just stand up in front of people and say funny stuff. They’ll laugh. Its that easy.” You are incapable of seeing things outside of your own perspective.)

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 11:58

As another side note, your point “c” is not completely accurate…they will use type 2 men as an emotional outlet, and as a free source of money, goods, and labor, as much as these people will let them–and then proceed to ignore them the rest of the time.

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Jabherwochie January 7, 2010 at 12:04

AFOR-

I also want to see a picture of you. Many good looking people don’t realize how good looking they are (same goes for ugly people some times). Its hard to accrurately judge ones own attractiveness. Too many biases and too limited of a perspective. Are you fat? Bad skin? Weak chin? Wierd nose? Big ears? Crooked teeth? Short? What makes you a plain james? If nothing is wrong with you, that means you’re good looking. Good looks is healthy, symetrical, and average features. Are you unhealthy, unsymetrical, or not avearage in any way?

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 12:09

”””””””However, for most men, “being themselves” will guarantee that they get put in category 2 rather than category 1. Game is about systematizing the behaviors–both verbal and nonverbal–that get you put and kept in category 1 rather than category 2. You then make these behaviors a part of who you are, and suddenly “being yourself” really is all it takes–but for people where these behaviors don’t come naturally, learning Game is crucial.”””’

I think most men don’t approach at all. I remember at the clubs when I was in the army. The guys didn’t approach. I approached therefore I got woman. That is the key to game in that it has guys who would normally not approach do the very thing they would not normally do. So they end up getting woman. They also may realize that they have some power in that they just need to approach and they can get another. Therefore with some experience they realize they have a choice in the woman they stick with. It gives them some power becasue they don’t just take the first woman that says yes and make it like it is some sort of mirical and they owe her the moon even though she is not right for them. They can actually find a woman they are compatible with because they have the experience to know the diference.

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 12:12

Now during bosnia the army let us have leave. Well the whores met us on the bus and handed out fliers for a club before we hit budapest. So yea the guys finally got to see what woman where like and lost the pedastalization of them. They saw all they needed was some cash and they could get pussy. My girlfriend at the time flew down to meet me so I didn’t partake. These guys gained a lot of confidense from the event and when we got back to home station they basically all suddenly had girlfriends. Confidense is key. Losing pedastalization of woman is key.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 12:15

Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 12:12

Now during bosnia the army let us have leave.

aha, someone who knows afor…

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 12:21

Gunslinger–

Most men are indeed afraid of approaching, as they have no idea how to predict women’s behavior (which makes them afraid that any particular move will result in disaster). This is not the same as never approaching (most will still do it, just not nearly as often as they could), but this fear destroys their chances from the start–from there, through repeatedly being shut down, they approach less and less often.

The number one rule of Game is to be confident. Without this, everything else doesn’t matter. If you aren’t a naturally confident person, “fake it ’til you make it.”

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 12:59

Jab–

I don’t care if AfOR posts a picture or not; a picture is unlikely to be especially helpful in figuring out several very important factors of attractive male appearance: height is usually hard to tell, symmetry somewhere near impossible to tell, smell is obviously out of the question (and also somewhat cultural…), etc. The big thing to remember is that if girls really think your appearance is “average” (and aren’t just saying that to be nice, which is typical), you are already in at least the 80th percentile (since they rate about 80% of men as being of below average appearance). I thus have no difficulty simultaneously believing AfOR’s claims that women think their friends are slutting around by being with him (upon which I assume he bases his opinion that he is not of particularly above average appearance), while he may in fact be in the top 10 or 20% in terms of looks.

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 13:00

”””””””’Most men are indeed afraid of approaching, as they have no idea how to predict women’s behavior (which makes them afraid that any particular move will result in disaster). This is not the same as never approaching (most will still do it, just not nearly as often as they could), but this fear destroys their chances from the start–from there, through repeatedly being shut down, they approach less and less often.”””””””’

Why I think after fucking some hookers the guys lost there fear of predicting womans behavior. If they couldn’t find a woman to give up the booty “free” they could just go pay one. They realized there is no longer a need for fear of not getting pussy and pussy lost quit a bit of power.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 13:01

@ arbitrary

I thus have no difficulty simultaneously believing AfOR’s claims that women think their friends are slutting around by being with him

——————

err, no, never heard that, it’s blokes who ask what the hell she is doing with me.

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 13:02

Like when the first guy climbed everest he knew he could do it again.

Same with these dudes.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 13:03

@ Gunslingergregi

Why I think after fucking some hookers the guys lost there fear of predicting womans behavior. If they couldn’t find a woman to give up the booty “free” they could just go pay one. They realized there is no longer a need for fear of not getting pussy and pussy lost quit a bit of power.

—————-

no logical…

you’re not getting any…

so, you’re scare to talk to a woman because the downside is…..

you don’t get any…

??????????

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 13:05

Gunslinger

I don’t know anyone from outside the internet who openly says they’ve slept with a prostitute, but what you’ve said sounds completely believable to me.

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 13:11

AfOR

The mentality is that as long as you don’t know, there’s a chance that she might have said yes, thus validating that you are not a completely defective human being. Once she says no, she’s removed all doubt.

This attitude of dependence upon the approval of others is indeed infantile…but it’s also common, until a guy has a chance to learn that there’s nothing magical or special about the approval of women that makes it important.

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Carl Sagan January 7, 2010 at 13:17

A very good friend of mine works in a hospital blood lab, he is extremely experienced and extremely good at his job… by his reckoning an absolute MINIMUM of 40% of children are not fathered by the man who thinks he fathered them.

He reckons if DNA testing for paternity at birth was mandatory we’d see that number jump up to 75/80%

LOLOLOL

I love the internet.

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Jabherwochie January 7, 2010 at 13:20

I still want to know what he looks like. Studies have shown that looks can be a predicter of personality traits.

I think we can boil it down to this;

AFOR is an asshole (I don’t mean that negatively, most of my friends are assholes) and women like assholes. AFOR doesn’t understand why some men have a hard time acting like an asshole. It’s not just confidence I think, its a type of confidence, a social confidence that allows one to dismiss other peoples opinions as being unimportant. Its a specific confidence in that sense. I was always confident in who I was, how smart I was, and how much ass I could kick, and did fine interacting with women when scoring wasn’t a concern, but to put myself out there, to be judged from a sexual selection standpoint, it made me shut down. The type of confidence that dismisses others opinions of you is mildly sociopathic, and hard to fake. A man who cares what others thinks, can’t just turn that off, he has to have it grinded and burned out of his system. That takes time. I could even approach women, I just didn’t know what to say after the approach. Most people bore me conversationally, especially women. Its hard to fake interest. I think Game is learning how to be a “Social Sociopath”.

For proof of AFORs mild sociopathy, has any of the complaints or analysis about you bothered you in the least, or do you just find it all mildly amusing? Don’t lie, I’m beginning to like you because of your sociopathy, without that, you’re just a dick who hides his insecurity behind his bluster.

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 13:32

”””””””Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 13:11
AfOR

The mentality is that as long as you don’t know, there’s a chance that she might have said yes, thus validating that you are not a completely defective human being. Once she says no, she’s removed all doubt.

This attitude of dependence upon the approval of others is indeed infantile…but it’s also common, until a guy has a chance to learn that there’s nothing magical or special about the approval of women that makes it important.

””””””””

eloquent but yea they learned that a woman will give up the pussy for a relatively small amount of money and a good looking woman at that. It was the market force that lowered the value of pussy. To them originally it might have been the holy grail but when the holy grail can be had for 19.95 but wait theres more you can have two for only 35.95. It helped them put it in perspective.

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 13:35

Jab–

This is why I don’t agree with many people’s analysis of what fraction of men can learn game…you don’t have to have very high g (the so-called general intelligence factor) in order to learn Game, you just need to build up enough emotional control. The requirements for doing so don’t seem to be especially related to most regular measures of intelligence–this leaves me with no sense of what fraction of people can learn Game, or how to identify them a priori.

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Arbitrary January 7, 2010 at 13:37

eloquent but yea they learned that a woman will give up the pussy for a relatively small amount of money and a good looking woman at that. It was the market force that lowered the value of pussy. To them originally it might have been the holy grail but when the holy grail can be had for 19.95 but wait theres more you can have two for only 35.95. It helped them put it in perspective.

That’s hilarious…act now and we’ll throw in sucking and handling into this “one time” special offer.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 13:42

@ Jabberwochie

For proof of AFORs mild sociopathy, has any of the complaints or analysis about you bothered you in the least, or do you just find it all mildly amusing? Don’t lie, I’m beginning to like you because of your sociopathy, without that, you’re just a dick who hides his insecurity behind his bluster.

——————————–

hilarious really, there isn’t a cunt hair between how I am treating *some* of these guys, and how their precious “game” tells them to treat women.

even when I explain the truth to them in sesame street terms, they still don’t get it..

it’s like talking to a creationist while holding an ammonite fossil in your hand, they DO NOT WANT to hear.

if you want to know what I think….

I think men who believe in “game” believe in it mainly because it is a belief that allows them to continue in what is a more fundamental and important belief to themselves, that women are not cum buckets.

by the way, I’m not sociopathic, I’m a lot less sociopathic than most average people, the problem is if you start defining socipathic as thinking women are cum buckets you go down the same route as the feminists who claim that all men are rapists…

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Gunslingergregi January 7, 2010 at 14:01

””””””That’s hilarious…act now and we’ll throw in sucking and handling into this “one time” special offer.””””””’

I guess it was a one time offer. Some guys actually went back to go to the place again but it was gone. Like it never happened lol

But yea we where stationed in germany so they still had the red light district he he he

Which I swear I never partook at that time because I was getting chicks right and left.

I can understand why globalman likes germany it was a nice place.

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Jabherwochie January 7, 2010 at 14:12

AFOR-

I understand your point. Game has become an overly complex system to solve a simple problem. I agree with you on that. Some people like to get into minutia and nuance however, making it into a hobby, where for you, it is just a past time. I’m more interested in you, not your analysis of game. You didn’t deny it when I called you an asshole, or seem bothered by it.

Do others people’s negative opinions of you affect you in an emotionally negative way? Men’s opinions, not womens.

My point, is that you are a natural. You exhibit traits women naturally find attractive. You have natural game. What is easy for you, is difficult for others. You are a natural asshole.

And I didn’t say you might be a sociopath. I’m saying you might be mildly sociopathic, which I guess would be an asshole. I guess sociopathy needs to be defined some more;

“Psychopathy vs. sociopathy
Hare writes that the difference between sociopathy and psychopathy may “reflect the user’s views on the origins and determinates of the disorder.”[43]

David T. Lykken proposes psychopathy and sociopathy are two distinct kinds of antisocial personality disorder. He believes psychopaths are born with temperamental differences such as impulsivity, cortical underarousal, and fearlessness that lead them to risk-seeking behavior and an inability to internalize social norms. On the other hand, he claims sociopaths have relatively normal temperaments; their personality disorder being more an effect of negative sociological factors like parental neglect, delinquent peers, poverty, and extremely low or extremely high intelligence. Both personality disorders are the result of an interaction between genetic predispositions and environmental factors, but psychopathy leans towards the hereditary whereas sociopathy tends towards the environmental.[38]”

Psychopathy (pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. Researcher Robert Hare, whose Hare Psychopathy Checklist is widely used, describes psychopaths as “intraspecies predators[3][4] who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, sex and violence[5][6][7] to control others and to satisfy their own needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse”.[8] “What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony.”[9]

Psychopaths are glib and superficially charming, and many psychopaths are excellent mimics of normal human emotion;[10] some psychopaths can blend in, undetected, in a variety of surroundings, including corporate environments.[11] There is neither a cure nor any effective treatment for psychopathy; there are no medications or other techniques which can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy only become more adept at manipulating others.[12] The consensus among researchers is that psychopathy stems from a specific neurological disorder which is biological in origin and present from birth.[10] It is estimated that one percent of the general population are psychopaths.[13][14]”

Sociopathy, psychopathy’s kinder, gentler brother, is not something that makes someone evil, although it can lead to that, it just leads them to feel beyond the consideration of others moral judgements and personal feelings. Its not narcissism, becasue narcissist care what others think, that it lines up with their own high opinion, even if they are dismissive of others opinions using ego defense mechanisms. A sociopath has little fear or doubt, I high tolerance for stress, is easily bored, puts himself first, and has little guilt or remorse.

If no man is an island, a sociopath is a boat. Tell me about your upbringing. What kind of boat are you?

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 14:26

@ jabberwochie

“parental neglect, delinquent peers, poverty, and extremely low or extremely high intelligence.”

nope, a million miles wide of the mark, that’s the trouble with all these pop diagnoses, just trust me on this, I’m not sociopathic…

all I am is a realist with my eyes open, I’ll give you an example…

Guy I’ve known all his life, divorced, 3 late teenage daughters, point out that he can now look forwards to guys just like him 25 years ago fucking his daughters up the ass.

(had to do it, he was whining about paying alimony to his ex who had moved a boyfriend in yadda yadda)

not lacking in empathy, sympathy, or anything else, but he needs to wake up and smell the coffee, because he is acting like his daughters are somehow different to the girls he used to fuck and dump, and they aren’t, not one iota, and unless he wakes up to this fact that shit is going to kill him…. he’s 5 years younger than me and now looks 10/15 years older…

am I an asshole?

yes

so are you, so is everyone else, if I’m different in any way its cos I know I’m an asshole and don’t deny it.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 14:48

incidentally.. did you know… speaking of assholes…

moment of conception (ALL animals) cell division, clump of cells, then form starts, clump of cells doesn’t get to bigger clump of cells, but grows in a thick pizza base shape, then folds over and the edges join, thus forming the alimentary tract, one end of which is the mouth, the other end of which is….

drumroll

THE ASSHOLE

so basically it is true to say that your asshole was the first significant feature of you to form…

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Max January 7, 2010 at 14:58

@ Krauser/Arbitrary: It works if you work it. It’s bar/lounge game, if it’s anything. It doesn’t really pull in clubs, but then I go to clubs in flannel and work boots. Really, it comes down to getting over women. I agree with Chuck about the idea of a Zen-like state.

@ Dragnet: Don’t give a shit about anything – about your urges, about her urges, about her feelings . . . Divorce yourself from any of the strong motivations that might cause you to convey any sense of approval-seeking behavior. Better to let her walk than to let her find a way to get under your skin.

@ Zorro: The point of Rule 7 is that girls will occasionally talk smack. Sometimes they take negging as ball-busting and want to play along. Girls who try to bust balls are like omegas who try to bust balls – they are prone to saying things that are over the line.

Some females react to negging like a contest. They’ll fire off aggressive insults and attempt to demonstrate higher value/cut you down. Don’t give in to their bullshit. Which brings me to . . .

AfOR: .

Jabberwocky from home January 7, 2010 at 15:03

Yep. Just like all my friends. I like you.

And I armchair analyze everyone because when I do get it right, people think its magical. For every 9 I get wrong, its worth it for the tenth I nail. I take risks like that. I’m not afraid to make an ass of myself. I lost all form of shame a long time ago. You’ve been a great sport. I’m not sure what makes you tick, or if I should even believe what a sociopath tells me (you just can’t win sometimes), but when you want to actually reveal something about yourself, I’ll be ready to over analyze it.

Peace brother.

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adan flores January 7, 2010 at 15:04

Oh, you silly bipeds! Work the ol’ Sentiment angle and you strike pure gold. Like John Milton said: never let ‘em see you coming.

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Max January 7, 2010 at 15:21

@ AfOR: It occurred to me that you have Geico Game. You lock eyes and stare like that stack of cash.

“Who’s that?”
“That’s all the pussy you could have been getting if you hadn’t broken eye contact.”

AfOR January 7, 2010 at 15:35

‘@jabberwocky

(BTW, are you and snark related? lol)

You’ve been a great sport. I’m not sure what makes you tick, or if I should even believe what a sociopath tells me (you just can’t win sometimes),

————————–

I know what makes me tick, I like doing what I like doing, if I don’t like it, I don’t do it.

you’ve also invoked sociopath too often in my case to actually believe it, just a label than ain’t true in preference to a question mark.

I’ll tell you a great and profound truth in life.

You can get absolutely anything you want in life, just by wanting it consistently, you don’t have to do anything, just think about it happening every night.

The only thing is, you can only want one thing at a time.

Far as telling about myself goes, basically I don’t, cos it always goes one of two ways, people flat out don’t / won’t believe it, ever, or they do, because they have done the same stuff, and there’s no point except for shits and giggles over a beer one night.

I’m just some DNA, having some fun while recombining, or playing at recombining, no way I’m getting out of this life alive anyway.

besides, all the pussy starts dripping in the presence of an enigma.

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Krauser January 7, 2010 at 16:48

I think there’s only three possibilities here for AfOR. He’s either:

(i) a natural who doesn’t know why his micro behaviours work so denies they are there
(ii) an mPUA who wants to pretend getting to let level is actually a hell of a lot of work and approaches

or far more likely
(iii) completely full of shit.

Whatever, simply telling a normal guy to hold eye contact is bullshit. George Clooney can do that, a raging natural can do that, an mPUA who has nailed all the normal game and boiled it down to simplicity can do that. 95% can’t.

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Krauser January 7, 2010 at 16:50

….pretend getting to that level is not actually a hell……

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codebuster January 7, 2010 at 16:53

@Jabherwochie

I still want to know what he looks like. Studies have shown that looks can be a predicter of personality traits.

If you’re going to be a player, being a looker can actually disadvantage you. Women choose “types” of men, and if a man looks like a prince, she’s going to want him to behave as one. She will anticipate, work herself into a lather, and then blow it all, say, by saying something stupid, or playing TOO hard to get… or playing too desperate. Women also make mistakes, and this idea that the onus is always on men to psychoanalyse themselves is unhealthy.

@AfOR

every single man they see is “sized up” as a possible sexual partner.

This is incorrect. Women are materialistic, and with materialism-related priorities (success, confidence, being provided for), many married/partnered women are in a world of their own, oblivious to everything, even men, around them. This is not to say that a man cannot catch such a woman’s attention and “make an impression”. But I take serious issue with the idea that all women everywhere are always available and looking. That’s complete nonsense. A man has to make an impression, and in the absence of said impression, most men are invisible.

For all their imperfections, for all their delusions/conflations regarding the nature of love/commitment/violation and the ease with which they might be swayed from their illusions, there is nonetheless a sizeable proportion of women who stick determinedly (oftentimes obsessively) to their commitments (this depends on culture). A player that is good at what he does may act largely on autopilot, but he will know that he can’t just go hitting on any woman to whom he takes a fancy. That’s nonsense. He has to read her cues. When a woman on her own or a group of women standing in a circle is receptive, they give out cues, and naturals know how to read them and the rest is easy, instinctive and fun.

I anticipate that Afor knows this stuff. He should word himself more carefully.

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z January 7, 2010 at 17:11

Im running out the door to go watch a ball game with family, but wanted to say to Max that I enjoyed reading the article. Game-related posts are interesting to read even if you are in a relationship. Its nuts-n’-bolts psychology, and people are interesting beings.

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AfOR January 7, 2010 at 17:35

@ codebuster

see, you are a classic example of what I was saying to jabberwocky… under no circumstances are you prepared to believe that all women are cum buckets..

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Jabberwocky from home January 7, 2010 at 20:12

@AFOR

Me and Snark related? We are all related brother. Even to those cum-buckets we have let go so astray. No amount of unconcern on your part will change the importance of the positive and negative bonds between all humans. It matters, whether it matters to you or not. You simply take yourself out of the equation, which is fine. It is your freedom, and I respect that.

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codebuster January 7, 2010 at 21:05

@AfOR

The fact that many women today fuck with swamp-gollums does not mean that that’s what gets their rocks off. Just as feminism made women believe that they were conned into submission by patriarchy, so too, feminism has conned women into believing that every man is doing “it”, and so too should every woman. But the poor dears don’t understand that it is nowhere near as easy for men of the mainstream to “score” as it is for women, because they don’t understand their role in the natural order. Not every man is an alpha rock star. And so many women believe that fucking with any retard is legitimate and that it “counts” as a real experience and that there is no such thing as a slut. No it doesn’t and yes there is. This is the grand delusion of our time. I think that a great many women are bored to death with it all, and not understanding why they secretly want to puke.

Again, I emphasize Uncle Bern’s vision… we need to free the word slut.

Men need to wake up… a woman’s history matters.

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Jack Donovan January 7, 2010 at 22:32

A reader posted this to my Facebook page:

“I just had an argument with a girl I know. She was saying how it’s unfair that if a guy fucks a different girl every week, he’s a legend, but if a girl fucks just two guys in a year, she’s a slut. So in response I told her that if a key opens lots of locks, then it’s a master key. But if a lock is opened by lots of keys, then it’s a shitty lock. That shut her up.”

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Jack Donovan January 7, 2010 at 22:43

Wasn’t familiar with “Uncle Bern” but I just watched a YouTube or two and he’s entertaining. Nothing bad to say so far…

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Bob Smith January 7, 2010 at 23:37

Actually, I think Max’s point is that the key is really not giving a shit

Surely that’s grossly insufficient. If a man isn’t visibly wealthy or good looking enough to meet the mark’s standards (however irrational those standards may be), why would she care if you didn’t give a shit? More likely she’d laugh at your presumption.

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Bob Smith January 8, 2010 at 00:00

so, you’re scare to talk to a woman because the downside is…..you don’t get any…

That’s not the downside. The downside is being mercilessly and savagely humiliated, often before you end your first sentence. And a 5 will be just as vicious as a 10, perhaps even more so. Maybe that’s never happened to you, and if so I congratulate you.

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Bob Smith January 8, 2010 at 00:11

you don’t have to have very high g (the so-called general intelligence factor) in order to learn Game, you just need to build up enough emotional control. The requirements for doing so don’t seem to be especially related to most regular measures of intelligence

I would argue high G inhibits Game, even in the absence of Aspergers.

I’m not sure what you mean by “emotional control”. High emotional control causes low affect, which turns off women big time. I know, because I display it, and it’s damnably hard to unlearn.

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codebuster January 8, 2010 at 02:18

@Jack Donovan

Wasn’t familiar with “Uncle Bern” but I just watched a YouTube or two and he’s entertaining. Nothing bad to say so far…

Surprised you haven’t heard of Bernard Chapin… I recall he was editor of MND prior to the bust-up and Paul Elam taking over – he was a prominent voice there for a while.

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codebuster January 8, 2010 at 04:45

BTW… not “Uncle Bern” but Bernard Chapin… my bad.

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Jabherwochie January 8, 2010 at 06:33

“””Bob Smith January 8, 2010 at 00:11

you don’t have to have very high g (the so-called general intelligence factor) in order to learn Game, you just need to build up enough emotional control. The requirements for doing so don’t seem to be especially related to most regular measures of intelligence

I would argue high G inhibits Game, even in the absence of Aspergers.

I’m not sure what you mean by “emotional control”. High emotional control causes low affect, which turns off women big time. I know, because I display it, and it’s damnably hard to unlearn.”””

Seconded. But Bob, they mean emotional control in the sense that you can suppress fear, doubt, shame, shyness, etc. that allow you to suppress approach anxiety, and maybe fake the positive ones at the same time. Its not about suppressing all emotions, its about supressing the right ones and faking the right ones. Like sociopaths do naturally. If you don’t fake the positive ones for girls, they think you’re a robot. I’ve had the same problem. Just practice your smile in a mirror, make sure you use all of your face muscles, and then smile a lot. Weed helped me. Until you do it all the time, it makes you a little giggly and silly, which girls will like better than a blank facade.

Many of you probably think I’m silly in real life based on my silliness here, and I do say lots of silly things that sometimes make people laugh or cringe, either response does it for me, but its mostly delivered fairly dry. Very dry often. I have a flat affect also like Bob. Even when I’m worked up, I tend to just get louder, not necessarily more expressive. I use my hands some, when describing things, but thats because I really want to draw a picture, so its me trying to draw in the air I guess. When I rage, I’ve been told I’m pretty scary, but that might be due to the extreme contrast of it to my normal unemotional self.

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null January 8, 2010 at 07:02

This article has the standard problem of not definining what alpha and beta mean. Not that it really matters, since everyone has their own personal definition. When a word doesn’t mean anything, why use it?

“The only reason a man treats a woman special is if he wants something from her. She will assume that what you ‘want’ is her ass. She will be right.”

You are projecting. A lot of PUAs have trouble grasping the fact that not all men (and women) are like them. Some people actually want serious long-term relationships.

“Alphas rise to the top of their social hierarchy because they embody manliness. ”

Then PUAs cannot be alphas, because PUAs are not manly.

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Jack Donovan January 8, 2010 at 07:31

codebuster –

Surprised you haven’t heard of Bernard Chapin…

I’m not new to talking about manhood, but I am new to the “MRA” scene.

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Max January 8, 2010 at 07:43

@ Null:

Alpha – The male who is at the top of his social circle. One who displays a collection of manly traits.
Beta – Slightly lower than Alpha.

As for projecting, I disagree. Since I was writing directly to an audience that IS out for some ass, then I think my assessment was correct. As for those who want relationships, good for them. I’m not one of them. However, I’m not a pick-up artist either.

I do believe that humans are largely self motivated. You can argue the virtues all you want, people listen to the rumble in their belly.

Jabherwochie January 8, 2010 at 07:49

“This article has the standard problem of not definining what alpha and beta mean. ”

Followed a paragraph or so later by a analysis of a standard definition of Alpha:

“Alphas rise to the top of their social hierarchy because they embody manliness. ”

UriNull-

You’re not even trying anymore? What’s happened to you? Your powers of trolling are slipping. I think you need to get some exercise. It sharpens the mind they say. Start by running as far away from us as possible, into traffic, with a highly unstable explosive device strapped to your groin. Just a suggestion. Feel free to ignore it.

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Arbitrary January 8, 2010 at 08:59

Bob–

g and Game are more or less orthogonal. Having high g just means that there tend to be things other than Game that are more likely to occupy a person’s interest.

By emotional control I meant the ability to control affect, not having low affect. Low affect is likely to develop an image as either a machine or a creep (or both), depending on other social factors. High affect will achieve greater results overall in the absence of Game, but without control it can lead to sudden disaster.

“Not giving a shit” is the most important first step to achieving any sort of relationship success. The second step is to disarm through humor. Everything else is a matter of style or specifics on how to effectively implement the first two. Wealth and appearance are both dramatically less important than demeanor.

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null January 8, 2010 at 10:31

Max “Alpha – The male who is at the top of his social circle. One who displays a collection of manly traits.
Beta – Slightly lower than Alpha.”

As a rule, PUAs don’t have the faintest idea what manhood is all about. And anyway, what is so fantastic about being at the top of a social circle? That sounds like a job for Paris Hilton, not a man.

Jabherwochie “Followed a paragraph or so later by a analysis of a standard definition of Alpha:”

Too vague.

“You’re not even trying anymore? What’s happened to you? Your powers of trolling are slipping.”

I’m not trolling, but you are. You are trying to derail the thread and turn this into a debate about trolling. Anyone with half a brain can see what game you’re playing.

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null January 8, 2010 at 10:35

Arbitrary ““Not giving a shit” is the most important first step to achieving any sort of relationship success. ”

Except… it’s not. You kind of have to care about the other person and the relationship if you want things to work out. Unless you’re with a completely dysfunctional woman.

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Jack Donovan January 8, 2010 at 10:51

Why are people still responding to null?

It’s a cynical contrarian heckler who is not here to add or offer sincere criticism, but only to mock and subtract. People who stand for nothing can say, do and laugh at anything. Null hasn’t defined a position of its own, it just picks away at others like a parasite. Stop feeding it.

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Arbitrary January 8, 2010 at 10:54

Null, I could simply retort that almost all women are dysfunctional, but that wouldn’t get at the heart of the issue.

A large fraction of women measure status by how much you appear to care about other people’s well-being (the less you care, the lower their status must be relative to yours, until they get so far below you as to be deserving of charity). Almost all women feel attraction towards people they feel are high status. Women with both of these properties (still basically all of them) will feel better if you successfully feign disinterest. This doesn’t mean you actually shouldn’t care about other people, just that you’ll generally make both of you happier by appearing to care less.

This, ultimately, is the difference between Game and the position advocated by AfOR…he has correctly surmised that one reason to practice Game is if you are still pedestalizing–since Game will make her happier, if you still think her happiness is more important than yours you should practice it. AfOR’s message is–basically–to actually stop caring about her well-being, instead of just learning to act like it. That the resulting behaviors are largely the same is why one might reasonably attempt to describe most women as dysfunctional.

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null January 8, 2010 at 11:46

Jack Donovan, you’re trolling. You are attempting to derail the thread. Your trolling is nonsensical anyway, since it is obviously not necessary for anyone to “define a position” (whatever that is even supposed to really mean).

Arbitrary “Women with both of these properties (still basically all of them) will feel better if you successfully feign disinterest.”

There’s no reason to care about such women.

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Arbitrary January 8, 2010 at 13:07

Jack

See, it’s easy to get Null to take a position. Null just came out in support of MGTOW. There’s a group of women Null thinks there’s no reason to care about. That group turns out to be almost all women. Thus Null is in favor of men not caring about almost all women.

Null

The big question between Game and MGTOW is something you’ve just hit on… will conditions improve more quickly if men ignore women who behave this way, or if they interact with them through the extremely limited principles of Game. Some see Game as hastening the downfall of feminism, since it only gives women one thing that they want, to the exculsion of other wants. Others see it as feeding the beast.

There’s a nice foreign policy analogy. Imagine that there’s a country that you don’t like (for whatever reason…human rights violations, child labor, whatever). They need to import three basic goods, say food, construction materials, and clothing…they can domestically produce inferior versions of these products, but the difference in noticeable. They can export oil, which is pretty much the only thing they have that you want. For reasons of their being completely delusional, they dramatically prefer (as indicated by their actions) to be paid in clothing for their oil; given the availability of clothing, they will choose it over the other alternatives.

Game is trading clothes for oil.

MGTOW is refusing to trade with them at all.

The question is which method will make them starve and try to re-negotiate first.

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Jack Donovan January 8, 2010 at 16:49

Arbitrary -

It is a passive aggressive “questioner.” Questions are easy. Answers are hard. Passive “questioners” are spineless and worthless.

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null January 9, 2010 at 00:36

Arbitrary “The question is which method will make them starve and try to re-negotiate first.”

Game is just a scorched earth tactic of destroying society in general, and feminists will just go down with the ship. Making it clear to feminists and other bad women that they’re not wanted or needed might actually work, or at least result in less damage.

Jack Donovan “It is a passive aggressive “questioner.” Questions are easy. Answers are hard. Passive “questioners” are spineless and worthless.”

Cool trolling, bro.

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Arbitrary January 9, 2010 at 15:41

Jack,

You’re right in general, and in this case in particular. Fortunately, even bad questions have answers that can be enlightening to everyone; it just gets hopeless when it gets repetitive.

Null,

Given that feminism already holds the sway of the institutional power, ignoring it will achieve nothing. Being a good little worker despite endemic problems in the system enables the system to continue to function. Left alone, feminist systems–like all systems that separate productivity from rewards–will collapse…but continuing to support a society burdened by this cancer merely invites the cancer to grow, and continue to inflict suffering upon others. It is far better to take what profit you can, while you can, by whatever means you think will defeat the beast the fastest.

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null January 10, 2010 at 03:19

What are you talking about? I clearly said that the idea is to let feminists & co know that they aren’t wanted or needed. That is hardly the same thing as supporting them.

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Migu January 10, 2010 at 06:00

Pua is a guide. Afor gunslingeri and the rest are right. I slept with a prostitute in trier, hamburg, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, and idar-oberstein. If you fail to pick one up then buy one. Learned about afor style game while in Iraq. After my first deployment it has never failed me. Lack of brothels stateside does make getting some a little more difficult. Not that much though. Did I mention a whore costs about as much as a pickup? I’m factoring time here not money.

Men if you want pussy indifference is fool proof. If you need assistance technique will help, just don’t let your life revolve around the vag. Like any tool it should be used when needed and put away when the job is finished

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