Sweden epitomizes “progressive” — so much so that the Nordic country is held up as the ideal by American progressives such as Matthew Yglesias, who idolizes the place. One thing I’m not sure these people understand is that Sweden is very different from the United States. In fact, culturally speaking, Sweden is even quite different from its neighbors Norway and Finland, both of whom absorbed heavy blows in the troubles of the 20th century. Norway was a staunch supporter of the Anglo-American alliance during both WWII and the Cold War, and despite its sparse population resisted Nazi occupation with more vigor than any other Western country. Finland, for its part, stood up to the Red Army virtually alone during the Winter War, humiliating Stalin and stopping the northern advance of Communism in its tracks. In the meanwhile, Sweden experimented with socialism, continued to supply Nazi Germany with vital raw materials, and stayed out of the fighting.
Isolated by geography and shielded by its neighbors, Sweden has managed to avoid war for 200 years. This prolonged peace has led to a culture largely isolated from the realities of international conflict, allowing Sweden to develop an idealized society that is viewed as a paradise by American leftists. Needless to say, this has resulted in an enervated masculinity in Sweden, where men have taken to attempting to breastfeed and sitting down to urinate. Swedish women, for their part, have taken this to mean that they are every bit the men that their brothers are. Indeed, never having faced anything to tell them otherwise, they may be correct in their isolated northern enclave.
However, things are different down here in our somewhat less ideal American society. In America, violence, poverty and ethnic conflict are realities that no sane American can deny. Even feminists are aware that certain self-righteous behaviors are just plain stupid. So as Swedish women have been cheering Elin Nordegren for attacking Tiger Woods with a golf club, some American feminists have voiced concern about whether it is really wise to take it that far. It appears that American women are still aware that they might not come out in such good shape following a free-for-all.
Single mother Katarina Andersson, a New York-based Swedish blogger, has covered the Swedish media’s response to the Tiger Woods incident, highlighting the fightin’ spirit of Swedish feminists:
Britta Svensson, a well-known columnist at the tabloid Expressen and a former U.S.-based correspondent, commented, “Our Swedish hearts are overwhelmed with pride, because our very own Elin didn’t take any s—. Just like a tough Swedish girl shouldn’t. Elin is our heroine.”
In response to this, “The Sexist,” an appropriately named DC-based feminist blog, raised the point that must be on a number of cheating American women’s minds:
For once, a feminist actually thinks of consequences.
If it suddenly became standard practice to clobber cheating spouses, ERs across America would immediately be filled beyond capacity with bruised and bleeding women. As commenter The Fifth Horseman has observed before, feminists will eventually take things too far. It looks like they already have in Sweden.
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“It looks like they already have in Sweden. ”
Except they neutured their males first. Right now, outright mutual violence between men and women, in the Anglosphere, would obviously end in male victory. They’re surely just waiting until they’ve got us to the point where we take orders to sit down to piss. Seriously, what the fuck is up with that – one sex regulating how the other goes to the bathroom? That’s the point where I start resorting to ‘other’ means than blogging! And that’s precisely the problem for Anglosphere feminists – they know that there are plenty of men like myself who would gladly resort to ‘other’ means if they pushed too hard, too soon. But slowly, they will try to neuter us too, until we forget how to fight back or be anything but passive bodies while they celebrate violence against us.
Good points. Scandinavian — or Fennoscandian to be more precise, if you want to geographically include Finland — countries aren’t all the same, and I personally don’t really know all that much substantive about Sweden’s situation regarding feminism or social policy.
But perhaps the common stereotype held here in its eastern neighbor that all Swedish men are basically homos is correct. (Flamebait!)
Really, the problem for Anglosphere feminists is that the bigotry is now out in the open for everyone to see – because Swedish feminists are now at the point where their men won’t fight back.
But now we, outside Sweden, can see this bigotry for what it is. Too soon, for those who would rather keep it under wraps for now, while they keep chipping away at our liberties and identity …
BTW, I’m not saying that things couldn’t be better here in Finland, quite the opposite. We do have “state feminism” and e.g. the usual chivalrous male bashing, just that there haven’t been any spectacular feminist news events, such as the ones described in the article.
Sweden seems to be further down the path.
(Technical note: It seems that I get the html editor and preview functionality to appear only when I’ve already written one message and my name and email address have been saved. Something to fix, perhaps?)
Could be a cache or browser issue. I’ll look into it.
BTW, would you include Estonia as a “Fenno-Scandinavian” country, or is it simply Baltic?
I wonder where the percentage of castrated males is the highest..
I was thinking about Denmark as the number one place for the disintegration of the male soul. Philip Jones’s articles would indicate Denmark as the first country to fall into oblivion.
The bets are set: my bet is that Denmark will disappear before Sweden, with Norway possibly third.
I’m also wandering if the survivors (Muslims) will chose to settle that far North. (Muslinavia anybody?)
Only thirty years ago, I would have laughed at the thought of a “Muslim Scandinavia”, but it appears now that the feminist movement will be successuful in their endeavor.
A hard lesson for Anglo feminazis as their Scandinavian sisters will beat them at the finish line.
I would conclude that Scandinavian feminism is better, more cruel and more heartless than Anglo feminism.
Maybe the old Viking gods have had a sex-change….
LOL!!!
@ Welmer
Here’s a list of Nordic countries that are members of ‘Nordisk Råd’ (Nordic Council);
http://www.norden.org/en/the-nordic-region/countries-and-autonomous-territories
Estonia has been danish or swedish territory several times in history, so it has a large nordic influx and could counted in as a nordic country.
Tested with another computer, os and browser. Same results. It’s not a huge issue, but if one aims for perfection…
Nope. Wikipedia has more for the 1 or 2 interested.
Of course, you could just say “the Nordic countries” to cover all bases. This was mostly just nitpicking on my part.
“It looks like they already have in Sweden. ”
Yes, they have and swedish men have been rebelling for a while. The standard answer for a woman who is upset is “if you don’t like it get out”. They do not get nearly the cushy ride in divorce courts that other societies give.
Sweden is the Illuminati ‘test society’. And you only need to befriend a few swedes and talk to them when they are drunk to know they don’t like it one little bit.
heh. If I aimed for perfection this site never would have gotten off the ground. But I will look into it. I am a little suspicious of that comment preview plugin, to be honest.
The Muslims are already there, rebel. Sandra Tsing Loh commented, in her shameful piece about leaving her “kitchen bitch” husband, that Swedish women have reported longing erotically for the masculine Muslim men in their midst, now that they have thoroughly feminized their own men (and it is quite thorough … as Welmer points out, there are Swedish guys who want to breatsfeed!)
Sweden is the epicenter of the emerging matriarchy, without doubt. But it’s also a very small place — ~10 million — and, leaving aside the newly arrived Muslims, breathtakingly homogeneous ethnically compared to any Anglo country. So when our own Anglo leftists wax poetic about their longing for Sweden, they only display their own abysmal ignorance about the fundamental differences between Sweden and any Anglosphere country. What “works” in Sweden (even assuming it does so there … chat with some Swedish men about that … I know I have and what I have been told is not very complementary) would not in a million years work in the large, ethnically and culturally diverse Anglosphere countries. But the left, being filled with dreamy idealists, can’t see that reality beyond the end of their own upwardly-turned noses.
A few Swedish men sitting down to pee does not prove a matriarchy. Swedish men still dominate in business, from figures I have seen of the sex of company directors.
My short experience in Denmark did not make me think they were outstandingly feminised. Probably the most feminised country is Norway.
Life is full of trade-offs and the male feminists of Sweden have few family responsibilities and get to fuck blondes with few consequences. Meanwhile their patriarchal equivalents in places like Saudi Arabia can miss out altogether on pussy if they are not rich and powerful.
Swedish men are probably about as happy as men anywhere else.
I note with some interest that the majority of the bruised and bleeding women that report to ERs in America for IPV are there because of a fight that they started with their male companion.
But really. What feminist gives a rats ass about fidelity in this day and age, except as yet another excuse to rationalize her own propensity for violence toward men?
There’s an interesting connection here that you may not be aware of. Though Elin Nordegren is often described as a “swim suit model” and “former nanny,” this seriously understates her pedigree. Elin’s mother is Barbro Holmberg, a Swedish Social Democratic politician who served as Sweden’s Minister for Migration and Asylum Policy from October, 2003 to October, 2006. This makes her about as left wing as you can get. Barbro’s former job might as well have been Minister for the Annihilation of Swedish Culture. So, while it’s clear Tiger put his head in the noose and pulled the lever, I have the suspicion there is more to Elin than we have been allowed to see.
I wonder how happy women are in Sweden, compared to other countries.
They have a high standard of living and feminism taken to an extreme… this is the direction most western countries are headed.
But does it work? Obviously not for men but for the women?
Increased happiness surely is the aim of any social change.
David
True, but Swedish feminists continue to push the envelope. There is an ongoing effort to implement gender quotas at the board level. Sweden’s Social Democrats are apparently promising this if they win next year’s elections.
On the plus side, there are limits to what Swedes are prepared to tolerate. The Swedish political party Feminist Initiative imploded after efforts to implement a “Man Tax” came unglued in 2005.
When they agitate for direct wealth redistribution from men to women, on the basis of gender -alone-, and seek to enlarge the laws of marriage (i.e. divorce) to include any form of cohabitation … how can anyone seriously deny what these people are about?
David December 20, 2009 at 2:56 pm
“Swedish men are probably about as happy as men anywhere else.”
So you’ve actually got good friends who are swedish men who have told you how things are in their country, have you? Or is this just someone making up an opinion. The relatively few swedish men I have been close friends to are less than impressed with their country. And these are men who are very well off. And there is pretty open ‘warfare’ betwen husbands and wives in Sweden. The campers did not seem so happy if you ask me. Dick Masterson was telling me he sells quite a few copies of his book up there as well. The small amount of annecdotal evidence I have been exposed to tells me swedish men are not happy campers.
Extremists ALWAYS take things too far and extend to an overreach that proves fatal.
We have seen this twice in the last 36 months :
1) Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Killing US troops was OK, killing Iraqi troops was OK, but straping bombs to children and sending them into schools finally pissed the Iraqi public off enough to react.
2) The Obama-Pelosi-Reid Democrats, just as of yesterday. The stigma of this healthcare passage will hurt left-wing Democrats in elections for 15 years to come.
Feminists are pretty close to doing the same thing… The Four Horsemen of Male Emancipation will coverge at just the right time to ensure disaster for feminists.
I’ve been to Stockholm twice.
Lovely place for a male tourist. In summer, you can go clubbing until 2 AM and still walk home in broad daylight. The women are attractive and easy. Winter must be hell, though.
BUT, none of the men I talked to were very optimistic about the future of the country. They had none of the national pride you might see in, say, France.
From what I could tell, the women in Sweden does not have an ‘angry hissy-fit’ vibe that US urban women have.
They may have female-supremacist laws, but the women aren’t of a ‘all sex is rape’ variety. Plus, none of them are fat, so they don’t have those sorts of insecurities.
So the average Swedish woman is better than the average American woman, the misandrists in both countries aside….
For the record, commercial office buildings in Stockholm still have urinals in the men’s room.
Maybe I was only in buildings frequented by foreign businessmen, but still.
I was just having a read through P.J.O’Rouke’s “Eat The Rich”, where I recalled he had a chapter on Sweden. This passage really jumped out at me:
O’Rourke sums it up better than me, but his argument was that Sweden works in spite of its politics, not because of it.
This thing about “sitting down to urinate” being somehow unmanly has always bugged me. I am entirely capable of doing so standing up, and when I’m out in the woods or something and don’t want to trek back to a bathroom, I do. But I LIKE sitting down, and I like not worrying about if I’m spattering to the side or on my shoes or something. So when I can, I do. And fuck you and your pretentious attitudes if you say I shouldn’t.
lol. Sorry, Rollory. Pee as you like. I suppose I should have written that the men are forced to sit down when they pee. I understand that sometimes you just want to sit down, but you shouldn’t have to.
The issue is choice, Rollory.
Your attitude that it’s your choice and fuck anyone who tells you otherwise is exactly the same as my position that it should be the choice of Swedish men – and fuck anyone, particularly Swedish women, who tell them otherwise.
Hard to imagine why a man would be bugged by someone else’s beliefs on so trivial a subject. I’m thinking maybe you’re not a man.
Unless you’ve had a serious accident, that’s such a given as to be not worth saying. Suspicion of a woman writer grows.
.
Most men would piss in the woods even if a ‘bathroom’ wasn’t that far off. The principal reason we wouldn’t would be if there were other people about. You’re sounding a LOT like a woman.
Pretty sure you’re a woman now.
Confirmation.
But Sweden does rank #1 when it comes to women in government (or at least did a few years ago, I’m assuming we still do).
While there are a few competent ones, we’re cursed with way too many Eurospeak-spouting feminist cunts like Margot Wallström.
“male feminists of Sweden have few family responsibilities and get to fuck blondes with few consequences”
I don’t think so. Some swedish men get to fuck blondes without consequences. You are forgetting that swedish women like women everywhere are hypergamous
I 0nce saw a young Nordic couple on holiday here in Australia, I suspect on their honeymoon. I only mention this because they were the saddest-looking newlyweds I have ever seen. I remember thinking that the “bride” had probably been banged by twenty men before her marriage and the bloom was definitely off the rose.
To reply to an earlier comment: On subjective happiness / life satisfaction, Sweden is one of the happiest in the world. The Nordic countries tend to all rank near the top (except Estonia, if you count Estonia… though Estonia ranks much better than most former USSR states, which are worst in the world along with Sub-Saharan Africa.)
You’re a git and a liar.
And the use of ‘frontman fallacy’ doesn’t work.
Its true that Scandinavian women are “easier”. I had more women come on to *me* when I was living, for a few months, in Scandinavia in the early 90s than I ever have had anywhere else on earth. And it was clearly sexual in nature, that was all but directly stated. I suppose that’s a part of feminism, though.
So, want to know what the “health bill” is all about? The ONLY reason it is being passed?
Here it is, on the Internet, and nowhere on TV:
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0912c.asp
In these bad times, insurance companies refuse to actually pay for anything. On they “cover” it, but that is purely in theory. In the real, practical, world, they don’t pay.
Bad people are refusing to buy “insurance” that “insures” nothing.
The pain of the renter/financier class is obvious. The solution is clear.
A loaded Federal Gun pointed directly at your face.
Now mind you, we ain’t having no government health-care in the free market, we just having some federal goon squad enforcing the will of private robber barons. That ways the robber barons can do whatever they want, and you can do whatever they want to. Or else. That way we is getting the best of both worlds. Or is it the robber barons that are getting the best of both worlds?
Why are you still in America?
Nordic people have a reputation for being precise, industrious, hard-working, community-minded and uncomplicated (and not so famous for their humor). They remain this way wherever they live, whether it be in the Frozen North, Minnesota or Argentina.
I think you could send them all to Siberia and they’d still make pretty little villages, build a Volvo factory and live polite, happy lives (wait a minute – Siberia’s probably not much different to Scandinavia.) Let’s get real here – any people who could make a prosperous life for themselves out of living in a place that is permanently night-time must have developed some fairly unusual genes; genes conducive to living closely with others without the same violent desire to kill them all out of frustration that is more evident amongst people living in warmer parts of the world. They’d probably be amongst the happiest people on Earth no matter what you subjected them to. Extreme Feminism. Nazi-ism. Socialism.
David said:
“Life is full of trade-offs and the male feminists of Sweden have few family responsibilities and get to fuck blondes with few consequences. ”
No, David. SOME of the alphas at the top posing as manginas get to fuck blondes with few consequences. The rest have to grovel for both pussy and livelihoods.
Asshole.
I dunno, I’m part Norwegian and grew up around a lot of Norwegians, and they never struck me as “happy.” More like dour and resigned, and some of them downright ornery old bastards. But one thing they did not do much of is complain. In fact, one thing I can remember them responding with when asked “how you doin’?” was “can’t complain.” The Irish I knew, despite definitely being more prone to grousing about this or that, sometimes violently, and frequently expressing displeasure, nevertheless seemed a hell of a lot more cheerful most of the time.
Until fairly recently, most Scandinavians were dirt poor. To survive in that climate despite being poor requires a tremendous amount of work, caution and foresight, so these qualities became culturally ingrained. One thing that I’m not sure a lot of people realize is how much physical labor was involved in living in Scandinavia prior to industrialization. Everyone in the household would be busy from dawn to dusk chopping wood, feeding the fire, tending to the animals, churning butter, cooking, pitching hay, mending fences, sharpening tools, etc., etc. Not much time for socializing, and not much time for expressing oneself. Complaining was definitely frowned upon as a total waste of time.
I can’t say for sure about Swedes (being more familiar with Norwegians), but maybe this is why they say they are “happy” — they aren’t starving and they don’t want to be seen as whiners.
“I was thinking about Denmark as the number one place for the disintegration of the male soul.”
I was under the impression that Denmark has been unusually gutsy by European standards in its resistance to Moslemization.
Yeah, good call – I was being a bit fast and loose with the word ‘happy’, by which I meant seemingly contented with their lot. If they’re not complainers, then that would explain it. The only Scandi I know well is a Dane, and she’s not far off your description – happiest when working, which she seems to be doing all the time (she runs marathons in her spare time because she doesn’t want to think of herself as lazy). The rest I only know from the distance of a traveler passing through.
“I’m thinking maybe you’re not a man.”
“Suspicion of a woman writer grows.”
“You’re sounding a LOT like a woman.”
“Pretty sure you’re a woman now.”
“Confirmation.”
loololololololool
Althought MRAs and feminists are functionally identical, at least feminists don’t appear to have this kind of absurd tinfoil hat paranoia.
Is someone talking? I can’t hear them? Your squeeky little sissy voice just doesn’t carry over such a long distance. HELLO!!! ARE YOU OUT THERE? Talk like a man, not like a whiney little bitch, and we might be able to hear you better!
You’re a Null.
Ur a Null.
Urinal.
Got it.
”””””’Null,
Althought MRAs and feminists are functionally identical, at least feminists don’t appear to have this kind of absurd tinfoil hat paranoia.””””’
Now your just being intentionally iq less.
Feminists are the ones who edit every comment and ban at first sight of dissention from there script.
On a more approprate note:
The machines my company use are built in Sweden. My main contacts over there are women. All I know is that dealing with them is a pain. Some emails go unanswered, I get shipments of parts in random increments and shipping schedules, some taking months and months, others just weeks. Some shipments come with missing parts that they refute (like these specialized components would be worth stealing or undereporting, when all it does is increase my work load by reporting it), and they go on extended government mandated vacations and they don’t even inform us about until after the fact. I’ll send a hurricane of emails about some issue, and three weeks later I’ll get a reply like, “Sorry, we were out on vacation. How can I help you?” You can help me by reading the dozen fucking emails you got the past three weeks explaining exactly what I urgently need. Do I really need to recap it for you. Everything is so relaxed and easy going with them. Its near impossible to be fired there apparently, and women get something like a full year off for having a baby and are guaranteed to get there job back when they are ready. Those last factoids are second hand info, so take it with a grain of salt, but I do now for sure, where as I have deadlines that keeping means keeping my job, they don’t seem to have a care in the world.
@Jabherwochie,
Man talk about getting parts the only way to get the shit is to send about 30 emails for each fucking part so that the buyer who has a base pay of like 4500 then makes around 12g’s a month who doesn’t know what the part is because they have never seen it before nor have they ever worked on any vehicles. But there jobs is not to make sure you get the part fast there real job is to insure that you meet the government qoutas for minorities “woman” it is where they put them to rest or where people that are high up wives go. Working with woman you just have to get really good at inundating them with email after email. Then eventually they start working your shit first just so they don’t have to get a phone call when they don’t answer the email in a timely manor. Why all my vehicles always ended up at 100 percent readiness capacity at every place they sent me or dam close. Yea surprize surprize mechanics just need the dam parts to fix the shit and they do the work. Amazing I know probably boggles minds. But then you got to also worry about who you buy it from is it a minority company? Also fucks it up timewise. When they could easily automate the system to get rid of all those uneeded jobs and don’t even at the detriment to the mission in iraq then yea obviously no one really does give a shit except about creating the right jobs for the right people with no care for conseqences. Shit I brought up with just using scan guns could get rid of probably 25 percent of jobs oversees. Intead of having a shitload of people manually typing in stuff. The people doing the work could be scanning there own work as they went. I was as usual told that it wasn’t feasable. Certain areas efficiency was appreciated but in the big time areas where you save a 100 mil on paper not happening.
Plus the scan gun system would have allowed my company to stay 100 percent on contract and prove it. So yea fuck shit was wild. No more worying about an inspection anywhere you got the documentation easily available and the top brass know where they need to send help to a place that is slipping.
On the hiring and firing, most European countries do not permit termination of employment other than “for cause” unless a substantial compensation is paid to the employee.
On the maternity leave, I believe Sweden has a mandated policy of 13 months parental leave, of which the mother and father each *must* take 8 weeks, and which the remaining 9 months can be split as the parents wish. It’s about as lavish as it gets, really, but also has the kicker of mandating it — it’s illegal for men not to take two months of paternity leave. This is another thing that feminists in the US are eyeing with jealousy and thinking of implementing here in the medium to long term if they can get away with it.
”””””’On the maternity leave, I believe Sweden has a mandated policy of 13 months parental leave, of which the mother and father each *must* take 8 weeks, and which the remaining 9 months can be split as the parents wish. ”””””””’
Why worry about that shit nova? I’m gonna take the rest of my life off for parental leave he he he
It seems a little silly to denote a group of nine million people as “happy.” Only individuals can be happy – groups are full of individuals. And groups of nine million are full of a lot more individuals. For what that’s worth.
Anyway, as far as woman-on-man DV is concerned, one of the most open-minded people I know of on this subject is Marala Scott (who happens to be on Oprah’s website right now, do with that what you will), who spoke at Wayne State last semester, and she literally called people in the audience out for their one-sided view of Domestic Violence. Then a bunch of guys started standing up thanking her, telling their own stories about how they’d been abused by their wives, and that’s why they were there. It was a really interesting (and kind of tense) moment.
(Last thing, promise: She has these ‘Indicators of an Abuser‘ that she pushes pretty hard, insisting that they’re for men and women. I think they’re pretty cool.)
So walker all workplaces except google and I am sure they fire people to are abusing people and opra ain’t doing a dam thing about it. That is inhumane isn’t it.
Jabherwochie: “Is someone talking? I can’t hear them? Your squeeky little sissy voice just doesn’t carry over such a long distance. HELLO!!! ARE YOU OUT THERE? Talk like a man, not like a whiney little bitch, and we might be able to hear you better!”
Is there something wrong with your brain? We are communicating in text, ergo there is no such thing as volume. Before you say that bolding and allcaps are equivalent to raising your voice, I direct your attention towards the fact that you didn’t use bold or allcaps either.
Gunslingergregi: “Feminists are the ones who edit every comment and ban at first sight of dissention from there script.”
That is not relevant. I don’t remember seeing feminists living in constant fear of MRA agents disguised as women trying to infiltrate their sites. But in here you’re immediately suspected of being a woman if you disagree with MRA doctrine (and don’t admit that you’re a woman). It says something about the misogyny of the movement that being a woman is unquestionably and automatically a bad thing.
Banned vs suspected of being a woman
Obviously feminists live in quite some irrational fear if they have to erase every post that disagrees.
Your “irrelevant” shield gets old, White Knight.
Novaseeker – ”It’s about as lavish as it gets, really, but also has the kicker of mandating it — it’s illegal for men not to take two months of paternity leave. This is another thing that feminists in the US are eyeing with jealousy and thinking of implementing here in the medium to long term if they can get away with it.”
Which, to me, leaves far more questions about attempting to implement such policy.
For instance, in the Anglosphere, there are a significant portion of women who have children out of wedlock, who also have little to do with the biological father of their children (I’ve heard that in non-Anglo European countries, although marriage rates are comparable to Anglo ones, family units – mother and father with their children – tend stay together). What of the fathers in these situations? Are Anglo feminists looking to also force otherwise unattached biological fathers to take time to help care for their infant children, or would this be something that would only apply to married or LTR fathers?
If the latter, how would it be decided which men are in relationships which would qualify/condemn them for forced paternity leave?
If the former, would men who are but selected at random (or for financial considerations) to be named as “baby-daddy” be not only liable for child support, but also for forced paternity leave?
Just asking…
“Banned vs suspected of being a woman”
So your rationale is that being a hilariously paranoid basketcase is alright if the other side bans people? What is that based on?
“Obviously feminists live in quite some irrational fear if they have to erase every post that disagrees.”
And obviously MRAs do exactly the same thing once they’ve been cornered badly enough, so what’s the difference?
GX1080: “Your “irrelevant” shield gets old, White Knight.”
Things are irrelevant when they are irrelevant. It’s pretty simple. And show me where I have done any “white knighting.”
””””””null December 21, 2009 at 7:15 am
Deansdale, what “fucked up shit” are you referring to? Well, that was a rhetorical question since I know you can’t provide any specifics or anything other than flamebait trolling.
”””””””””””
Right here null
”””””’Null,
Althought MRAs and feminists are functionally identical, at least feminists don’t appear to have this kind of absurd tinfoil hat paranoia.””””’
That really was too easy.
Gunslingergregi,
It’s best to just not respond at all to the troll that is null. Or if you do respond, don’t answer her questions, but ask your own. Trolls really hate that.
Gunslinger, I do not recall seeing feminists being hysterically paranoid about MRA agents infiltrating their blogs by disguising themselves as women. But here such paranoia is commonplace (Snark’s response is yet another example of it).
Snark, did you learn your awe-inspiring debating techniques from feminists? Or perhaps leftists?
Urinal-
Why do you come here?
I think feminism in the anglosphere are more focused on using laws to gain its goals while in scandinavia its more focused on cultural indoctrination as a tool. For example here in Sweden the kindergarten is universal, in practice all kids go there and this is a place where Very strong feminist indoctrination begins, also homeschooling is illegal. . As a kid in kindergarten during the seventies, when second wave feminism made a strong headway in Sweden, I remember being forbidden to build guns and sword out of lego. It was also considered a mental disturbance if a young boy drawed pictures of monsters or of war.
In the anglosphere with its stronger cultural diversity the focus seems to be more on making divorce and co-habitation laws as misandrist as possible. There is (thank Odin) no alimony laws in Scandinavia.
It is with some amusement i watch the liberal/feminists react to the ongoing cultural influence of the muslims. On the one hand they are the ones that very vocally advocated third world immigration, and yet they express grave concern when a muslim girl decides to follow her culture and wear a burkha. This can also be seen in other european countries for example France where they have outlawed the burkha in public places.
@David
The idea of Sweden as a place to get easily have sex with blondes is only correct if you are not a brainwashed Swede. Swedish women like exotic men and foreign men, but they find it very hard to feel attraction for a feminazi indoctrinated swedish man. The feminist teachings my mother and her sisters has passed down to thier sons has basically made sure she will not have any grandchildren. However since having started to view women as the mechanistic pieces of DNA they are (thank Odin for evolutionary psychology) women have at least started to take notice of me.
null – “I do not recall seeing feminists being hysterically paranoid about MRA agents infiltrating their blogs by disguising themselves as women.”
But, as many of both genders can attest, feminists routinely BAN anyone who posts comments contradictory of their allowed views, or worse, is uncomplimentary of feminism.
BTW, just for fun, according to the Encarta dictionary:
null –
1. invalid
having no legal validity
2. valueless
having no value or importance
3. amounting to nothing
amounting to nothing in terms of context or character
4. at zero level
at the level of zero or nothing
5. relating to zero
(mathematics) relating to or equal to zero
So, no matter what anyone else says about you, you’ve been at least accurate & honest in your choice of a screen name which suitably reflects you.
slwerner: “But, as many of both genders can attest, feminists routinely BAN anyone who posts comments contradictory of their allowed views, or worse, is uncomplimentary of feminism.”
And MRA does the same. Your point?
“BTW, just for fun, according to the Encarta dictionary:”
Oh wow. Did you learn that brilliant technique in Feminism 101?
Albert –
Good comments from the Lion’s Den.
This is because they are shocked that women would, given freedom to do as they please, choose to embrace their own cultural norms, even at the expense of “enlightened Western feminism”. This is a challenge to their ideology, for certain, which is why it flummoxes them. And that makes me laugh, really.
Indeed, one could even go so far as for this to be intentional, because the overarching “species/sex-war” goal of female sexual liberation is to free up women to sex the men they want — which, as we all know, is the small number of high dominance favored genes. By encouraging most men to become feminized betas, this just makes it that much easier for women to identify the true alpha bearers of superior genes, so that they can reward them lavishly with sex. Of course individual women are thinking that they are doing this to try to co-opt these hyper-desirable men into committed LTRs, but the underlying genetic programming doesn’t care that much, especially if a medium-tier woman gets once in a lifetime access to superb (from the reductive perspective) genetic material. It’s like the Roissyites say — feminism is the mother of all “shit tests”, because it pretty much paints most men with the “non-alpha” taint, and only the most rambunctious alphas will resist, standing out from the feminized crowd, making it that much easier for women to spot them and try to lure them with sex.
null – “Oh wow. Did you learn that brilliant technique in Feminism 101?”
Having fun!?!? Feminism doesn’t teach “fun”.
null – “And MRA does the same. Your point?”
Then give some examples of MRA sites banning useless trolls who have no other agenda than being disruptive. For instance, you might point to how this site has banned you…
So drop the extraneous question-mark, and yes, my point.
slwerner: “Having fun!?!? Feminism doesn’t teach “fun”.”
Feminism teaches shitty debating techniques. Just wondering if that’s where you learned your craft (it sure is eerie how similiar feminists and MRAs are).
“Then give some examples of MRA sites banning useless trolls who have no other agenda than being disruptive.”
You’re now saying that anyone feminists ban is a useless, disruptive troll. That feminists do not, in fact, ban people for just disagreeing with them.
Sweden has required parental leave,
does this include fathers who are only bread-winners while his wife stays at home?
It’s mandated by law, yes. Remember, he gets paid. The idea is a social engineering one — to make sure Daddy and Mommy are equally burdened, at least to some degree.
null – “Feminism teaches shitty debating techniques.”
If you want debate, post something substantive – like, for instance, your own views on the topic presented. But, if you just post the meaningless inflammatory crap like you’ve been doing, then there’s little point in trying to debate you. I’d just prefer to insult and annoy you – the same thing you seem to want to do to everyone else. Tit-for-tat. Admittedly childish – but I’m just trying to engage you at your own level.
Urinal-
Why do you come here?
Seriously.
The thing is, Null, do you think that the key to defeating feminists is having a superior debating technique? Their movement is impervious to reason. Holding men to that standard handcuffs us — it’s counterproductive. I know men do not like that kind of technique, but using reason with feminists gets you nowhere. The only arguments that can penetrate that fortress are ones that laden with rhetoric and emotion.
Good point Nova. You’ve been on fire today. I sometimes briefly forget why we allow all types of male responses to feminism here; be it emotional, logical, humorous, hyperbole, etc. It’s because we can no longer afford to play fair, to play by the rules, when feminist twist language itself to serve their purposes. It doesn’t matter what weapons one uses to attack them, as long as those weapons are all pointed in the same direction. Eventually one will find a crack in armor, a weak spot in the defenses, a loophole in their gender dialectal control. What tool will accomplish that? We aren’t sure. Thats why will use whatever we’ve got.
slwener: “If you want debate, post something substantive – like, for instance, your own views on the topic presented.”
This is a copout.
“But, if you just post the meaningless inflammatory crap like you’ve been doing, then there’s little point in trying to debate you.”
What “inflammatory crap?”
“I’d just prefer to insult and annoy you – the same thing you seem to want to do to everyone else. Tit-for-tat. Admittedly childish – but I’m just trying to engage you at your own level.”
I’m glad we’ve established that there’s nothing insulting and childish about accusing someone of being some kind of feminist infiltrator because the person disagreed with something some MRA said.
Novaseeker: “The thing is, Null, do you think that the key to defeating feminists is having a superior debating technique?”
I’m pretty sure it’s more useful and effective than acting like mentally disturbed 12 year olds. But even if you defeat feminism, so what? You’ll just end up finishing what feminism started: the destruction of Western civilization. The methods may differ but the outcome is the same.
Well it is easy to point out lies Jabherwochie.
Take rain for instance.
If she loses her job she won’t be able to afford the house she just bought that she can’t afford or wait how does she afford it.
Oh yea her sister lives with her with her kids.
So wait. How does her sister make money?
Does she work?
Or does she recieve child support and government handouts.
Independant woman or dependant.
Which on is it.
Guys just need to expect more out of woman than what we do. Make dam sure they earn their keep before any long term commitments are made. No free ride.
If I would of had that policy with my first wife instead of just her agreeing with my dream of saving loot she would have been weeded out of the process of long term commitment. Live and learn. 2nd wife good to go. She proved herself before we got married by actually being independant. She is also not dependant on a man who owns a company to give her a job unlike rains fake bluster of independance. How independant can you be if you rely on a pycheck to pay your bills and don’t even have your house paid off.
No other way to skin this cat. Let’s get it over with so we can move on to the next thing.
null – “What “inflammatory crap?””
To answer your question with a question, can you point out one thing you’ve posted that relates back to the main topic presented?
All you seem to have posted is snipes at others, and more of your general use of the acronym “MRA” as a pejorative.
Nowhere do you explain your own position on anything substantive.
You called a response of mine to to you a “cop-out”, thus, I assume that if I ask a direct question, you’d be willing to answer it directly (you, of course, being above “copping-out”).
So, let me ask a very simply one. Do you agree with some Swedish feminists that Elin Nordgren’s violent attack against her husband was warranted, and should be celebrated, or is domestic violence always wrong, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator?
Just a simple quest designed to get some sort of idea what you believe vis-à-vis the often contentious social relations between the genders.
How about another one: “Do you believe that the highly feminized men of Sweden represent an ideal for the men of other nations to emulate, or should men look to reestablish masculinity?”
One last quick question: “Are men right to advocate for the rights and legal protections of their fellow men the way MRA’s have been doing, or should men just throw in the towel and trust that women will unilaterally act to ensure true equality for all?”
Your first and second questions are entirely irrelevant.
As for the third one, the men’s rights movement is about violent and oppressive misogyny, nothing more.
Oh now you want to “save” Western “civilization” huh?
You and the rest of the socon manginas can go play Richard the Lionheart & tilt at windmills in trying to save it but an increasing number of men are saying no to being cannon fodder for the matriarchy.
Why would I want to save a civilization which forces cuckolded men to pay CS for kids that aren’t even theirs biologically?
null – “Your first and second questions are entirely irrelevant.”
Really!? They were intended to relate back to the main essay, and to give you a chance to give your viewpoint. How exactly, in your opinion, are they irrelevant? Please elaborate (i.e., don’t just call me feminist troll, and tell me what an “idiot” you think that I am, but explain why my questions bear no relevance).
But, hey, nice cop-out!
slwerner,
null has repeatedly proven itself to be a troll of the highest degree, uninterested in anything other than being an asshat (or, for those who prefer something more formal, a rectal haberdasher).
Stop bothering; the only thing that truly bothers it is being totally ignored.
Expatriate: “Oh now you want to “save” Western “civilization” huh?”
Yes. Why wouldn’t I?
“You and the rest of the socon manginas can go play Richard the Lionheart & tilt at windmills in trying to save it but an increasing number of men are saying no to being cannon fodder for the matriarchy.”
Mangina doesn’t mean what you think it means. Or maybe you just convininetly redefined it.
“Why would I want to save a civilization which forces cuckolded men to pay CS for kids that aren’t even theirs biologically?”
I thought cultivating a society where that doesn’t happen was part of the official MRA agenda, but clearly I was mistaken.
slwerner: “Really!?”
Yes, really. They have no bearing on anything that’s been discussed.
“But, hey, nice cop-out!”
Not my fault that you’re posting irrelevant things.
Reinholt: “null has repeatedly proven itself to be a troll of the highest degree”
No such allegations have ever been proven. It’s people like you who are the real trolls. Your objective is to derail a thread into a debate about who’s trolling and who’s not and what a troll is and what a troll isn’t. That is your goal.
lol at obama talking about a 136 billion savings over ten years what the heck is that. Surprized they don’t say 13.6 billion a year maybe because it sounds pathetic. Now also you jsut get made to buy insurance or go to jail. Interesting stuff.
Wonder who it will more proportionally impact males or females?
“As for the third one, the men’s rights movement is about violent and oppressive misogyny, nothing more.”
Highlarious! Good one Urinal!
“rectal haberdasher”
But this one, this one made me pee a little. MRAs win again.
“Mangina doesn’t mean what you think it means. Or maybe you just convininetly redefined it.”
Mangina is an MRA word you idiot. We came up with it.
“Mangina is an MRA word you idiot. We came up with it.”
Even if that were true, you still don’t know what it means.
null = Urinal
Welmer, It would be a neat trick if you did a search and replace to change “null” to “Urinal” whenever it appears in The Spearhead’s message headers (and bodies!)
Then everyone would know what they were dealing with.
Poester99 is once again demonstrating how mature and intelligent MRAs are and how they’re not all like the immature and stupid feminists. lol.
wow this thread entropied and trolled-out even faster than usual
to return to the posted topic, Swedish Feminists Applauding Elin Nordren’s Domestic Violence, i find it v telling that here we are, coming up on a week from the murder/manslaughter of chris henry, and after the initial reports, i havent heard a PEEP from the the amerikan medea about this incident
let’s review: if during a Domestic Altercation with his girlfriend, chris henry had managed to eject Tonga Whatshername from the back of his truck, causing her death, mr. famous football star chris henry would be in jail, awaiting the pleasure of Ms. Amerika and her “justice system” while the “facts” were sorted out
the medea would already be saturated with endless breathless articles about how Domestic Violence is sweeping the country, and of how More Needs To Be Done to protect the Innocent (read: females)
television stations, print medea, and huffposts would be awash in aghast articles calling for more laws to curtail the inherent violence that The Patriarchy does to poor wonderful females, and VAWA would receive another ten billion dollars to fight the terrible scourge of mans inhumanity to woman
maria shriver, VAWA joe, nancy pelosi and all the other supremacists would be dancing their gleeful and profitable Dance of the Deranged
Tonga would be this months Rihanna, her injuries and endless whines splashed over and over on our teevee and computer screens, to rile us all up into allowing the gynogulag to become even more gynogulagish
but, oops . . . it was a FEMALE perp who ejected a mere male from the truck — an incident that wouldnt have even been reported in the national press, were chris henry not an NFL player
i guess Tonga should have sliced off his dick while he was unconscious and thrown it out the truck window first — at least that would have garnered some “celebrity smut” interest — no doubt we’d be assured that like bobbitt, chris henry had been “abusing” her and so he “had it coming”
where is the outrage for chris henry? why hasnt the Domestic Violence Vaginocracy come screeching into the fray, to condemn the Perpetrator and to make an Ongoing Poster Series out of chris henry’s death?
could it be that the amerikan medea, like amerika herself, is just a hypocrtical male-hate ma-sheen that only fires up when the interests of Female Power are served?
you make the call
chris henry cant
Null – ” Yes, really. They have no bearing on anything that’s been discussed.”
Factually untrue, but let me first back up a bit.
I’m afraid that in my desire to get off to the gym, I gave your last response to me short-shrift.
All I did was to ask some very simple straight questions to you…Oh, who am I kidding anyway – I asked some very leading questions. I did so quite deliberately, in fact.
You see, I’ve spent quite a bit of time around lawyers, and one thing I’ve learned in the value of a leading question. Even though they’re technically not allowed to do so, lawyers love to ask leading questions simply because they are so efficient at provoking answers – sometimes, very revealing answers.
During any questioning, opposing counsel must remain constantly on-guard to object so as to shut-off such leading questions, because, it turns out, must people just can’t help themselves.
In some cases, leading questions can even provoke the most petulant of responses, which, by their very nature, reveal what the respondent had most wished to conceal.
To wit:
”the men’s rights movement is about violent and oppressive misogyny, nothing more.”
In light of that answer, one last question for you: “Do you honestly believe that having let that response slip out that there remains anything to be gained by continuing to represent yourself as a man?”
“Do you honestly believe that having let that response slip out that there remains anything to be gained by continuing to represent yourself as a man?”
What do you mean “slip out?” Nothing “slipped out,” it is plainly obvious to me that the men’s rights movement is about nothing more than the violent oppression of women. Since when did opposing violent oppression become the exclusive domain of women anyway?
Also, just what in fuck’s name makes you think that women would come here and pretend to be men, even going as far as to adopt writing styles and attitudes that are clearly not feminine? Women have nothing to gain by pretending to be men and you are being paranoid and delusional.
null – “…you are being paranoid and delusional.”
It shoots! And, it misses. FAIL!
What a pathetic joke you are. You offer nothing substantive WRT the discussion. No thoughtful opinions. Nothing even remotely insightful. Nothing clever. Hell, you can’t even manage anything humorous. You’re completely worthless.
What’s that word I’m thinking of…ah, yes, “null”. Null and void.
Write what ever inane comments you’d like. I’ll not waste any more time, nor column space responding to you.
Good day!
Thanks for that completely useless, content-free flamebait.
Guys, stop responding to the troll. Did you forget our talk about riding a pig to the moon? That analogy sounds stupider every time I say it, but it’s the stupidity I’m trying to hammer home here.
Guys, stop responding to the troll. Did you forget our talk about riding a pig to the moon? That analogy sounds stupider every time I say it, but it’s the stupidity I’m trying to hammer home here.
some centuries i wonder why i bother
this is one of them
And MRA does the same. Your point?
Nope. No men’s site, whether for MRA, Game, or general (like this one), bans polite disagreement at all, in contrast to feminazi sites that do that even with polite questioning.
Null, like all feminists is all about projection.
In fact, ‘feminism’ is nothing more than a confused, irrational mass of female solipism, projection, jealousies, and insecurities.
Period.
Snark – “Guys, stop responding to the troll.”
Sorry, I guess I was delusional thinking I could get it to say something-anything about the real topic. My apologies.
Interestingly – and actually somewhat related to the actual topic – Dr. Pelle Billing announced – Men’s Network Launched in Sweden .
In spite of the fact that Sweden has become a feminist-socialist laboratory, some men are making an effort to reconsider the needs and rights of men – you know, evil violent misogyny like seeking gender neutral legislation and considering the need of homeless man, and the high incidence of male suicide; in short, the evil of all evils (as reported to us by the idiotic troll), treating men as fellow human beings.
Actually, I had hoped to learn a bit more about the state of gender relations in Sweden, or even just about modern Sweden, in general. I myself am one-quarter Swedish, my great-grandparents on my maternal grandmothers side, having immigrated from there early in the last century. My grandmother an my great aunts still keep in touch with family members there, and even used to return for visits when they were younger. So, I still have some interest in what was an ancestral homeland. Sadly, most of what I hear coming from Sweden is just downright depressing – the men having become pathetic mangina’s, too cowardly to stand up to Islamic invaders, directed by the women to ALWAYS sit when they pee, and even desiring to breast-feed – pretty sickening sh*t for a guy who’d really like to be able to take some pride.
I’d hope that someone would have something positive to relate about Sweden – which is why I kept checking this thread, and allowing myself to get into with the troll. Again, I’d like to apologize fvor wasting time and text.
Snark: “Guys, stop responding to the troll.”
Stop responding to you? Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
You are a troll. You troll by derailing threads into arguments about trolling. Even if you were taken to Gitmo for enhanced interrogation you still couldn’t explain how poster X supposedly is a troll. Because you have no reason. You just pick someone and declare he’s a troll, and that’s it. Mob hysteria takes care of the rest.
Fifth Horseman: “Nope. No men’s site, whether for MRA, Game, or general (like this one), bans polite disagreement at all…”
Yeah, and feminism is about gender equality. I mean, that’s what feminists tell me, so it must be true. Surely they would never lie.
“Null, like all feminists is all about projection.”
Seeing as how I oppose feminism and don’t support feminist policies I am struggling to understand how it’s possible for me to be a feminist. Maybe you’re the one who’s projecting since you have far more in common with feminists than I do.
slwerner: “…allowing myself to get into with the troll. Again, I’d like to apologize fvor wasting time and text.”
This is a common ploy used by trolls like you. You repeatedly make statements like “please stop feeding the troll” and “I apologize for feeding the troll” to ensure that the troll argument continues uninterrupted, while making it appear (to the stupid unwashed masses) that you’re not a troll yourself. You’re fooling yourself if you think I haven’t seen this all happen a hundred times before.
Guys, this is my first time here and it only took me one post by null to see s/he is a waste of time. Whether s/he is really “trolling” (i.e., being annoying for teh lulz) or is really that hopeless, it doesn’t matter: nothing good can ever come from engaging in a discussion with them; not even enlightening the passersby; so just ignore them altogether. The inanities will seem to die out for a while, when they’ll adopt another nickname and the cycle will restart.
Ralph, stop trolling kthnxbai.
What null is doing is actually pretty hilarious, retarded but hilarious, like watching Tom Hanks repeatedly getting the shaft from “Jenny” in Forrest Gump (on a side note, if he was a violent retard like most of them are, Lieutenant Dan wouldn’t have had to pay for those hookers, the motherfucker would have been drowning in free pussy already).
It’s the old playground tactic of “I’m rubber,you’re glue”. Troll a little bit and wait for someone to call you a troll, then call THEM a troll, duck out, and watch as hilarity ensues.
Unfortunately, it is a well-worn tactic that has been the standby of maliciously-minded mental midgets through the ages and only tickles my funny bone when someone can put a new spin on it, which does happen occasionally.
Probably, the “violent misogynist” comments tie into the gag, because the funny part is getting the other party or parties attempting to acquit themselves of charges one knows to be absolutely false in the first place.
Usually the kind of people that play jokes of this nature are unoriginal fucktards of low social standing who crave the attention of others but have nothing of any substantial value to offer in return. Null is a lowlife scumbag idiot,not even worth responding to.
I guarantee you that were they in the same room with us, he/she would probably be the saddest sack of shit any of us has ever laid eyes on.
And yet another troll mastermind – Dave – joins the fray.
The strategy remains the same as always: perpetuate a completely off-topic argument about trolling by randomly accusing someone of trolling and possibly launching into a long-winded rant about the subject (as happened in this case).
null should be shot in the face.
If all the git males western society keeps alive were dead I’d do it free of charge. …Not one shiver of remorse.
That’s how slaves are freed; how free men are made.
But the gits of the western way are slaves to the bone.
Welmer, boot null. Don’t be a wuss. (Don’t give me any of that democracy freedom jazz.)
And the same old strategy continues unabated. I wish oldschool trolling would come back into fashion, instead of this dumbass shit that people like Sean practise.
Jabherwochie
From what I’ve read, there is only one person with the dubious distinction of being banned from Roissy’s site. When someone becomes such a pain in the ass that Roissy bans them because they consistently hijack threads, they look for other venues (or in this case vectors, as this person is clearly a forum disease). I support Welmer’s tolerance, however when it becomes impossible for an intelligent discussion, it’s time to take the same action Roissy had to. Roissy is extremely tolerant as well, but recognized that this person was nothing more than a forum disease that had to be banned. The problem isn’t just that person’s posts which can be scrolled past–it is the replies as well. We are all interested in what most of the posters here have to contribute. The forum disease has found a new vector and will continue until banned. Controversy and opposing ideas are great, but derailing multiple threads on a consistent basis IMO devalues the entire site. I don’t agree with every post and disagree with some posters quite often, but that’s what makes a forum interesting–nobody wants an echo chamber. On the other hand, there is the opposite of an echo chamber leading to such chaos that it becomes a site you would just as soon avoid. Such is becoming the case here.
@Welmer
If this is the same person who Roissy banned, please consider doing likewise, perhaps contact Roissy and discuss the matter with him. He actually invites controversy on his site—but this is something entirely different. I don’t know how many of us have observed the disruptive effect on this forum, but add my name to the list. It takes a lot for me to get tired of it–even LR didn’t bother me. But this really is too much.
News from Sweden:
Swedish ‘milkman’ loses breastfeeding battle
Young Swedish women more likely to have sex with each other: study (still not quite as radical as you might think by just reading the headline)
Stop trolling, David.
“Sweden is quite different from it´s neighboors Norway and Finland”
-AND Denmark!!!
-Let´s face it, Sweden is just “Dif´rrent”!!!!!! If you want to live there, as a man, the first thing to go are your balls ! -Next thing is any sence of pride and selfesteem !!-A funny thing, though, is that Sweden is also regarded as the most “americanized” country by it´s Scandinavian neighboors…;)
Go figure…