The Right Woman

“””Perhaps the most tragic thing about this is that the few women who really are the right women for men, those scattered renegades of their sex, are the ones most likely to suffer at the hands of dominant women. They are the real Cinderellas in a world dominated by evil stepmothers and stepsisters. Perhaps the old fairy tale is the best metaphor for our modern society: the gracious diligent woman is consigned to the ashy hearth while the harridan and her ungainly brood rule the roost.”””

I wept – NOT.

They all still get by better then their respective male counterparts. Therefore i fail to see the “tragedy”.

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First, we should ask what is the “right woman?” If we are to take a woman’s opinion, she is intelligent, educated, independent, self-confident, capable, attractive and in control. How do I know this? Because this is how women are always portrayed in media designed to appeal to them, and we know it works, because women consume a great deal of material that is designed to cast them in that light.

Women want these things, as you said, because it gives them…. or more accurately they are told it gives them, social status. Or more value with men. Not because they have an ‘innate’ desire for most of these things. (Besides buying things, I’m sure that’s innate)

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The thing is women have seen men in the past becoming doctors / lawyers and it earning them a great deal of respect and status. This has lead women to want to do those things in order to archive the same status. The thing is, I don’t think it works like that. The things that given women status are different than the things that give men status. Men are judged by their ability to provide, for example, but women are not. Therefore taking over these professions has probably not given women what they were looking for. I’m guessing this is why some recent studies are showing that women are becoming increasingly unhappy.

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I am sorry Welmer but I only read the fist sentence of your article. Although I am certain you have good things to say I am certain where I stand. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE RIGHT WOMAN. Hope will will forgive the caps but I was shouting.

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” The things that given women status are different than the things that give men status. Men are judged by their ability to provide, for example, but women are not. Therefore taking over these professions has probably not given women what they were looking for. I’m guessing this is why some recent studies are showing that women are becoming increasingly unhappy.”

I think that you make a very good point Robin.

Men are the providers, women are the nurturers. It was ever thus.

The natural order has been altered… To our detriment.

“In marriage a distinct society is formed – the family – and this society needs hierarchy, and so God put in it the symbol of our submission by making the man head of the family and the woman his companion.

Feminism is bent to destroy that order and hierarchy, and so will try to replace it in society in order to be able to change it in the marriage. So first it will ask for “equality” in the society, telling us that both men and women are fitted to do anything. In order to foster that, it will give the example of the exceptions, and generalize it to all men and women. That step is mostly completed today, and you see the mess in which it has put our society. Incapable people get positions only because we cannot discriminate. This last word has become a bad word, while in fact it means to choose the best and let go of what is useless for the task at hand. I discriminate when I choose a hammer instead of a screwdriver to drive nails in a board. This concept is at the bottom of any organized society, and even today, in spite of the words, discrimination is still used. If not, it would be chaos.

Feminism will also try to destroy the order in marriage, by putting both partners equal in everything. It is true that husband and wife are equal in regard to the contract of marriage and so in regard to the marriage act, but the husband is the head of the family created by the contract, and so there is inequality. Inequality doesn’t mean oppression and slavery, it means a different place in the hierarchy of things. As St. Paul said, the sanctification of the wife is in motherhood, in having the stronger hand in the raising of children, while the man dedicates his life for his wife by working and providing for her and their children the means of life. It is sure that the wife can help in the income of the family and that the father will have to do something in the education of children, but they are not interchangeable. We would need another sermon to explain in detail the duties of both husband and wife.

After having destroyed the natural order, feminism will be able to implement a new order of things. It is here that the problem of feminism becomes visible, as it becomes quite divided. Some will be very radical, and will try to consider women the only good persons of society and promote the demotion of men; but all the flavours of feminine empowerment, and by a contrary reaction, all the flavours of male “liberation” will try to win the favour of the crowd. This is the chaos that we live in, and in fact, we can say that feminism is at the root of all the other “liberations” that are destroying society today, as the rights for homosexuality, pedophilea, etc. ”

Father Jules Belisle.

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The right woman????

Perhaps. Maybe there is such a thing, but on a temporary basis only.Or for a specific occasion or set of occasions.
A woman might be the right one for you for a little while, but if you linger on in the relationship, that magic will wilt and die.

The “right” woman is mostly a myth. However, some of them, sometimes, can display such qualities but it’s fleeting, like a perfume in the air.

Then, everything is back to normal again: grey, drab and sad.

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Finding ‘the right woman’ in the anglosphere is a good analogy for winning the lottery. I have been proposed to many times and accepted thrice by some very conniving women (the last could have won an academy award). Don’t do it. In every case, I was the one who filed (I know that doesn’t follow the norm), but I just couldn’t stand it anymore. The last one I claim temporary insanity as I was taking care of my mom who was dying and she became very close to her. Listening to my mom was a huge mistake. Even after cutting the cords, she’s still attempting to reinstall her hooks in me. Nada is right–and even there I will never do the matrimony thing. I give women I’m dating one chance with the “m” word. If it ever comes up again, I break it immediately.

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Posts like these are the reason why I love this site.

Keep them coming, you guys are awesome!

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Paul: “THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE RIGHT WOMAN.”

You should consult a dictionary. Rarity is not synonymous with nonexistence.

And wait a minute: I was assured by several people that no PUA/MRA will ever be caught dead making a blanket statement regarding all women. What’s going on?

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I have experienced two seismic shifts in my awareness during my life. The first was when I realized that the West, northern European white civilization, was not different to any other civilization, and will fall. The second was when I grasped the true nature of women.

(Most) women have no future time orientation. They are not concerned with the abstract (to them) future consequences of current actions, no matter how negative. They are coldly pragmatic, live in the moment and will support any action that benefits them today. They are actually incapable, in a true neurological sense – they do not have the brain wiring – to understand the male requirement for external logical consistency. While men see themselves as actors in a Newtonian world of actions and consequences, women visualize themselves at the center of a reality that exists to be constantly manipulated to their advantage. The fact that men will subordinate their interests to that of the group for altruistic reasons is to women only a weakness to be exploited. I make no moral point. Things are as they are. It is important to recognize reality.

Western women will continue to behave in the way they are currently behaving until it is no longer in their interest to do so. Men must internalize this truth and act accordingly.

Years ago, as a British Army Officer, I was in Kenya training British soldiers in tropical warfare. At a lodge on Lake Naivasha I was approached by two young Canadian women, in their mid to late-twenties perhaps, four or five years older than me. They told me they were making a tour of the game parks in Kenya, just the two of them in a 4×4 with a black Kenyan guide. They were frightened, physically afraid. They told me that their Kenyan guide had been making sexual advances that were becoming increasingly aggressive. They asked me to help them. So I did. I took the guy outside, into the dark. I don’t remember exactly what I said, but he got the message that this behavior would stop, immediately, and that if it did not there would be consequences. I went back into the lodge, sat down with the two Canadian women and entertained them for a couple of hours, after which they invited me to join them in their cabin. I am sorry to tell you that I declined their invitation. What can I say? I was young, chivalrous and in love with my girlfriend back in London. But this is reality. Violence or the threat to do violence on my part was rewarded with (an offer of) sex. Western women will not change en masse until they are afraid, until they feel an immediate threat to their safety, to their survival.

Feminism will die only when the same circumstances exist that have suppressed female autonomy in other dying civilizations. That is, when the authorities can no longer maintain law and order, when the streets are ruled by armed gangs, when women can no longer walk alone without being assaulted. It is hard to imagine this circumstance occurring in Western countries, but it will.

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Zed
The most aggressive members of the pack have a survival advantage, and the females who have restricted their mating to the most aggressive males have the greatest chance of their offspring surviving and being represented in the genetic pool of the pack.

I am so with you on this Zed, except I propose that in a human society it is the strong, productive ones who are weeded out and the weaklings breed so that their offspring can die off and thus reduce the population numbers.

Maybe I am just trying to soften the blow to my ego eh?

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@Novaseeker

Yes. Please excuse the somewhat crude nature of my last post. I am not trying to be adversarial. I enjoy what you write but I do not have the time right now to create an appropriately thorough response to your last long post, which I agree with in most respects. I will make the general point that it can be difficult to separate the effects of the cultural overlay of the last 10,000 years (or perhaps as much as 40 or 50,000 years) from the effects of the raw genetic programming that preceded it.

Nevertheless, I think we are substantially in agreement. For example, involuntary child support and alimony are nothing more than the contemporary equivalent of year-round readily available ripe fruit on the African savannah (abundant resources), allowing females to feed themselves without the need to solicit beta male assistance.

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First, we should ask what is the “right woman?” If we are to take a woman’s opinion, she is intelligent, educated, independent, self-confident, capable, attractive and in control… If we were to ask a man, we’d get a significantly different ideal. Men – at least most of them – want women who are pretty, kind, caring, not stupid, modest and helpful.

I must be lucky. My wife is all of the latter, and a good number of the former.

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@Zed

The raw intelligence here is addictive. The Spearhead is brain candy. I should be working right now, but here I am.

The most aggressive members of the pack have a survival advantage, and the females who have restricted their mating to the most aggressive males have the greatest chance of their offspring surviving and being represented in the genetic pool of the pack.

OK, this works for coyotes, but for humans the situation is more complex because of the extended effort that it takes to ensure the survival of human offspring. One male trait may be thought of as the nurturing trait. This trait is primarily genetically determined, but is also amenable to the application of free will. At one end of the nurturing trait distribution are the good providers, while at the other are men who are opportunistic breeders. Betas and alphas if you will.

For optimum reproduction at the population level, both groups will always be present, but one group will always be relatively advantaged, depending on the environment. An environment that offers high resources and requires low investment for childraising (pick any sub-Saharan African country) advantages alphas, while the opposite is true in say, any European country in the nineteenth century. Unfortunately, the cultural environment in the West today has more in common with Nigeria than with Victorian Britain.

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Succinct Article. Though it leaves out one important fact.
It´s only inside the insular western societies that the “Cindrellas” will be suppressed by their overeducated feminazi sistas. But on the global theater the western man is still the most desirable male to be had.
Just stepping over the border to Mexico opens up a world of proper females to US men, for example.

For us non-breeder males this feminized society is actually a boon. Fuck & Chuck, virtual harems for the “Alpha Males” and for the “Betas”, blessed peace from female harassment allows us to concentrate on activities that are actually fun (aka nothing to do with women whatsoever).

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I am not a guy who is attracted to demure homebodies. I like really intelligent, creative, independent, and outspoken women.

It is terribly sad that most women trick themselves into believing those words mean “promiscuous, materialistic, boorish firehose spouting feminist groupthink talking points.”

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If we are to take a woman’s opinion, she is intelligent, educated, independent, self-confident, capable, attractive and in control
And yet this woman likely does not own any DIY home repair books, could not wield a Philips screwdriver to fix something around the house, change her own flat tire, cook and bake well, manage her finances with the future in mind, or figure out some creative solution to some issue rather than buying the answer. She might be able to turn off the water on an overflowing toilet and locate her circuit breakers, but even that is a big might from what I’ve seen. *sigh* How pitiful women have come the more “independent” and “in control” feminism has made them.

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Novaseeker: ” men were dying at higher rates than women (tribal warfare, death on the job (hunting, other dangerous work reserved to men) and disease (which also disproportionately impacts males, in relative terms)”

I wonder if this is true. In the 16th through 18th centuries, English and American men lived longer than women. In a local cemetery with 18th and 19th century graves I observed that the female deaths peaked in the child-bearing years, fell through middle age, and rose again in the seventh decade. Male deaths were steadier, and fewer than female in early adulthood.

Child-bearing and lactation, taking care of the sick, feeding the men first in times of scarcity (so the men can hunt and farm) decrease women’s resistance to disease. In the first year of the Plymouth settlement, about a third of the men, half the children, and five sixths of the women died. Some forms of warfare take a high toll on women. In New England, the Indians killed women and men alike in the attacks on the farms and settlements, and women were much less likely to survive the forced marches into Canada.

Men were more likely to go through two or three wives than the other way around. This may reflect male scarcity, but OTOH it may indicate that more women died young.

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Lady Raine – ”I personally am the one who fixes the dishwasher, hangs shelves…Hey! You guy’s, stop discussing what you’re discussing, and start noticing me and discussing me!”

Yeah, yeah, yeah…we get it already. You’re perfect. You can do everything. You’re the exception that supposedly disproves every “rule”.

Rumor has it that you’re the one that Kristen Wiig modeled her over-the-top attention-whore “Penelope” character on.

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Lady Raine-What imaginary world do you live in where women REALLY don’t do those things that you refer to as “men’s stuff”????
The same imaginary world you live in where I said any of those tasks are “men’s stuff”

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Hestia,

I don’t think you and Lady Raine live in the same imaginary world

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@ Lady Raine

When I first came to the US 26 years ago on an H1-B visa I lived on Webster Street in Allentown. Seeing you post here reminds me of that – I had forgotten the address, but just Google mapped around Allentown until I found it.

What imaginary world do you live in where women REALLY don’t do those things that you refer to as “men’s stuff”???? You hardly have to be a butch-dyke or a Feminist to know how to change a tire and to know what an Allen Wrench or a Philips Screwdriver is.

I have known one or two women who could do these things. No-one (well hardly anyone) here claims that the female gender is a monolith, with all females sharing identical traits.

You are clearly a 3-sigma or 4-sigma woman, with traits that live far out in one of the tails of the distribution of female aptitudes and abilities. I respect that. You do, however, appear to share one typical female trait, imo, which is the inability to mentally place yourself in the position of someone who is different to you. I can imagine what it is like to be you, I think, and maybe you can imagine what it is like to be me, I don’t know, but most women totally lack that ability.

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@Zed
 
“I would like to take that a couple of steps further and spin out a couple of my favorite “out there” theories about what is going down.”
 
“I’ve believed for several years now that the behavior we see among women is a completely instinctive reaction to increased competition for resources – in short, they are building better predators which give their genes a better chance of surviving through a coming period of greatly increased resource competition.”
 
 
I think Novaseeker and I understood the gist of your post just fine.  Your explanation that I simply didn’t understand your nuanced use of “nature” and “natural” wasn’t the point of the criticism to begin with.  The model you “believe” in simply has more holes in it than a block of swiss cheese.  And while all models have to apply simplifying assumptions to make dealing with or understanding a problem feasible, your model isn’t on target, even remotely.  How does a “completely instinctive reaction to increased competition for resources” explain the below replacement birthrates in the Western world, and the baby boom around many poor areas of the globe?  Simple, it doesn’t.  Not replacing your population and letting it dwindle doesn’t “give their genes a better chance of surviving” as you put it.
 

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“I think we human coyotes are in the stage of the cycle where the suplus is ending and the genetic shift away from the passivity of the past half century toward a more aggressive standard model of men is well underway.”

Good thing a Jabberwocky is an apex predator.

“The raw intelligence here is addictive. The Spearhead is brain candy. I should be working right now, but here I am.”

I second that.

I’m going to stay out of the hair splitting. Obviously nature has various systems that are counter balancing. It even has feedback loops that accelerate things. Remember, evolution tends to happen in bursts. One thing, which is broadly touched on by your all’s brilliant analysis and debate of evolution and nature is that being Alpha is not always genetically advantagous in certain context. One problem with being Alpha, is that you are always outnumbered by Beta’s. How many times have royal families been wiped out in their entirity. Its hard to stay at the top. Also remember, when the last global extinction event took place on Earth, it was not the Alpha predators, like T-Rex, that survived and flourished, it was the most Beta of all the animals, the tiny fur covered, milk-nurturing scavengers who feasted off the chaos and death; Mammals, our genetic ancestors. Mammals and birds and alligators. Birds because they can fly and were small enough not to have high caloric demands. Alligators (and or Crocs) because they were flexible enough to be land and water dwelling, and….well, that would be an interesting evolutionary discussion; How did the alligators do so well? What can we learn from them? Ramble over. You guys are great. Keep up the stimulating discourse on evolution. Its like a tapestry involving biology, culture, science, and government. Its easy to see the pattern created, but hard to distinguish the importance of individual threads. Thats why its a fun debate. Things are only more or less right and wrong. Its still all part of the picture.

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Who might be the modern version of mammals to survive this culturally induced extinction event?

Alpha males, or the Amish?

We shall see. I’m sure we’ll all be surpised.

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The “right women” is an expression akin to the “right narcotic.” Women continue to use this expression to give foolish men hope that marriage is a good thing to do.

It is not.

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The ideal woman does exist, but if you want her, you will have to search a community with a religious beatstick isolated of the poison of the Western world.

Needless to say, go expat.

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Sounds anything like Lady Raine’s persona? http://www.ladykree.com/Raine/whoisraine.html

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Rebel–

“God doesn’t give a shit about humans and rightly so: why should our particular species of monkeys draw God’s attention??????”

because He created our species, and in particular He created the human male IN HIS OWN IMAGE, ie with some of his personal psychospiritual characteristics

our Father loves us, it is we who — in our arrogance and egotistic rebellion — insist on hating and disobeying Him

“There is no right or wrong way to live: “Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”

The New Law is the Law of unlimited individual freedom.”

that kind of thinking was designed exactly to appeal to the human male’s love of freedom

but it’s a lie, and there IS both a right and a wrong way to live, though these ways have been corrupted and twisted by human ideologies and political systems, all of which are sourced in evil

“Vive la liberte illimitee.”

Libertas is another name for the Goddess — that is, the entity currently (and formerly!) controlling the lives of western men, destroying masculinity wherever it is found, and then gloating about it (It”s A Woman’s Nation!”)

so your slogan actually means “Long Live the Goddess”

libertas is like democracy — sounds fantastic, oh right, Power to The People blah blah . . . but notice that democracy turns out to be just another front for the Goddess and her endless matriarchies

who controls the vote? men? puh leeze

who controls the politicians, the government? education? law? media? the “free market”? men control these?

not a chance

youve been deceived, and aleister crowley and his Do What Thou Wilt Is The Whole of The Law was a fool and a tool of the matriarchate

crowley’s ideas and activities, like those of co-huckster L. Ron Hubbard, have been central in bringing about the New Woman Order of “freedom” and “liberty” in which western men find themselves bound

it was crowley, hubbard, and jack parsons who gave us the Babalon Working, in which they attempted (rather successfully, as it turned out) to “raise” the “goddess Babalon” for their “new age”

in socio-political terms, what Mr. Do As Thou Wilt raised was the psychotic, godless, father-hating, backstabbing, malevolent matriarachies which have now essentially over-run the planet

not exactly a hero-figure for MRAs

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great article.

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Renee: “Being modest and self-confident is mutually exclusive??? You can’t have confidence in yourself and be humble? Or maybe I have a completely different idea of what it means to be modest and self-confident.”

You almost certainly have a radically different idea of ‘self-confident’ than a man. To quote Carl Jung:

“This in itself would not have been a mistake if her intellect had not had that peculiarly protesting character such as is often encountered in intellectual women. Such an intellect is always trying to point out mistakes in others; it is pre-eminiently critical, with a disagreeably personal undertone, yet it always wants to be considered objective. This invariably makes a man bad-tempered, particularly if, as so often happens, the criticism touches on some weak spot which, in the interests of fruitful discussion, were better avoided. But far from wishing the discussion to be fruitful, it is the unfortunate peculiarity of this feminine intellect to seek out a man’s weak spots, fasten on them, and exasperate him. This is not usually a concious aim, but rather has the unconcious purpose of forcing a man into a superior position and thus making him an object of admiration. The man does not as a rule notice that he is having the role of the hero thrust upon him; he merely finds her taunts so odious that in future he will go a long way to avoid meeting the lady. In the end the only man who can stand her is the one who gives in at the start, and therefore has nothing wonderful about him.”

Most often, what women call being self-confident, men call being an asshole.

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As long as the legal system is biased so heavily against me there can be no “right woman”. They ALL have more rights than us, it’s like saying the slave had the “right master” – he’s still a slave. So even if this mythical “right woman” did exist it wouldn’t matter because the law has made her the master and the man the slave. I don’t know about you but I have no interest in being a slave even to a kind master.

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It could be worse porkchop. Here in Australia did you know that the man has no right to order a paternity test and if he does it on the sly he gets charged with assault (I kid you not – assault) and the evidence is therefore inadmissible. Add to that that if you live together for more than 6 months you are considered legally married so if she gets pregnant you foot the bill with no recourse to challenge it. Even worse, they recently passed what is commonly called the “mistress law” which effectively gives a woman that you are just fucking similar rights to a wife; all she has to do is show that you had an ongoing “relationship”. The only defense you have really is to have a vasectomy (and even that isn’t 100% effective) which is why Australia tops the world in vasectomies.
Give it time and they will try to get that sort of thing through in the states too – be afraid, be very afraid.

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Jesse
Damn, I’ve heard from some internet friends in Australia about how bad it was, but nobody mentioned that. I’m expatting to a country that with laws that are male-friendly. Years ago when I was in the Navy, Australia was considered a good place. Wondering when this happened?

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Jabherwochie,

How did the alligators do so well? What can we learn from them?

I dunno if you meant that rhetorically or not, but in case you were serious, there has been a lot of very interesting research on crocodilians recently that offers some clues. For example, crocodilians have natural antibiotics in their blood that protects them from the bacteria in dirty water. They are also a lot more intelligent than was originally believed; at Gatorland in Florida a group of crocodiles have been trained to respond to simple voice commands, including individual name recognition. Also unique among reptiles: mother alligatorss have been observed actually caring for their babies, as opposed to leaving them to their own devices.

There’s a bunch of other stuff, but that’s all I remember off the top of my head. All this could offer clues as to why crocodilians survived when most of the other large reptiles died out.

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A woman of inherent quality and capability, therefore, will often be more repellent to men than a rather unremarkable girl, because her very ability to fulfill her desires will lead her to resemble an archetype that makes her a poor choice for a mate.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. For me, it’s not a woman’s ability that makes her a poor choice of mate. Intelligence, per se, is not a turn-off. What’s a turn-off is the tendency of intelligent women in today’s society to engage and display their inner masculine archetype. Intelligent women are much more likely to have been through the college brainwashing machine and been taught to want and acquire masculine status symbols.

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@Caliph
The mistress law is quite recent. That case where that businessman settled out of court for some hideous was driven by the fact that if it had gone to court he would have lost under the new law. they were quite clear about that. In fact that was the first time anybody got to hear about the new law. They kept that very quiet didn’t they?
As for the assault charges for gathering DNA for testing without the mother’s approval, that’s been in for a very long time but I couldn’t say exactly how long.
I have to say the there is one piece of advice i give to all men over here and that is “learn to enjoy your own company; if you rely on a woman to make you happy you are doomed”. That advice is becoming more relevant every year as more of these anti-male laws get passed. Thankfully I followed my own advice – I’m single and never been happier.

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Jesse
I saw some stupid female television personality (Liz Trucillo?) going around Australia attempting to find out why men won’t have anything to do with women (even attempting to convince some gay men to ‘try’ them (to no avail). With those severe misandrist laws, why even bother asking? I live in the US and am careful enough, if it were that severe in the states, PUAs would not exist. I’m getting out before it reaches that point. Don’t these bitches in Australia realize that they are responsible for the so-called “man drought”?

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Reinholt: “I know it’s hard for you to understand a place where we don’t enforce politically correct norms through fascist means, null, but perhaps someday you will get used to allowing people to freely express themselves.”

Lol? I am an opponent of political correctness. I have been ejected from an untold number of forums for saying something politically incorrect.

I never said, implied or led anyone to believe that I am somehow trying or desiring to restrict the free speech of someone on this site, or someone else somewhere else. You are making your accusation out of whole cloth. Is this your usual strategy, then? Someone says something that is at odds with something a MRA said, and you go “you’re just politically correct and opposed to our freedoms, man!”

“You are objecting to the use of “all”, and generalizations, to characterize things. I am going to tell you something very important if this is true:

Never communicate with anyone again. Ever.”

As I have plainly explained many, many, many times now: I am objecting to statements that explicitly apply to every single member of a group, not generalizations. Those two are not the same thing.

“Everyone does it; it is common on both sides of this debate, as well as all others.”

So? It’s still retarded. The unwashed masses do, say and think many retarded things. By your logic feminism and leftism are a-okay since “everyone does it.”

“It’s also incredibly intellectually dishonest that you only call out people who offend you on this – everyone is doing it, but I don’t see equal application of your outrage. You are behaving as if you are a hypocrite, a front-runner, and a liar.”

Wait, what? You are expecting me to Google for any instances of someone making a blanket statement regarding all members of a group, post the results here and denounce the person who said it? Maybe you should look in the mirror before randomly calling other people “fringe lunatics.”

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Null: “As I have plainly explained many, many, many times now: I am objecting to statements that explicitly apply to every single member of a group, not generalizations. Those two are not the same thing.”

And how’s that working out for you? Have your repeated objections accomplished whatever you hoped they would accomplish?

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@ David Brant
Realising something like that would require them to think rationally about the situation – surely you jest?

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@Null-

I understand your desire for consistent logic. Hell, we have autistics here. We also value extremist thought because if serves as a vital catalyst to raising public conscousness on an issue. Some of us are also poetic by nature, as it makes things more entertaining, and metaphors and anologies are great linquistic tools. Your perspective is valid. It is just one perspective amongst many.

Do you like the poem “The Jabberwocky”? Words are slippery. Don’t deny us our ability to play with them in ways to sqeeze additional meaning from them, where as feminist abuse language to twist its meaning. You’ll come to start appreciating things like, “All women since the dawn of time have been nothing more than nature’s little whores!!” and you will appreciate the poetic force of hyperbole. If not, you are a boor. If you want the MRA to be fun, we are that accomidating. If you are not, let others have fun. This is going to be a tedious experiment in endurance and indifference. A little emotional wallowing, a little fun, a little lightness and release, it will help us in the long haul.

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“Have this site’s objections towards feminism caused feminism to collapse? No? Then I guess it’s time to shut down the server and sell the domain.”

Ah, a natural skeptic and pessimist. I see why you are coming to our side. Feminist are completely irrational. Stick around, enjoy the variety of the human experience. Your tools of doubt and skepticism are invaluable against feminist. I appreciate our differences. I hope you can at least ignore them. And keep in mind, giant intellects hang around here, accompanied by substantial egos. The leaders of this philosphical war aren’t idiots or wimps, and new-comers will have to prove themselves.

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I’ve found a woman with all those qualities (aside from ‘not stupid’: she’s quite intelligent), is anti-feminist (like Hestia), and likes me as the alpha caveman that I am.

There are ‘right’ women out there, but there aren’t many. It’s so easy to see things as black and white, this or that, without appreciating that exceptions always exist.

From my experience, the women who are ‘right’ come from families with strong, dominant fathers (for all the obvious reasons I won’t outline here). The problem, of course, is what happens when dominant male fathers cease to exist? To paraphrase the study on rates noted above, I think civilization will suffer horribly, but it won’t cease to exist like in that experiment. Strangely, the cure for this seems to be for alphas males to marry and raise competent families with patriarchal-oriented values. Such a twisted conundrum, this.

As someone said on another thread, it is the rise of western feminism that will enable radical religious factions to sprout all over the globe. Long-term, I submit that there will be a return to patriarchy, but it will be under theocratic tyranny (and yes, this means that I believe certain forms of patriarchy are horrible. the only proper patriarchy is one established with western values).

@ David Brandt:
-is it possible that the reason why men are avoiding women is not because of the laws, but because they’ve simply become irrelevant to a man’s happiness? What I mean is, I don’t think that all the Australian men think “wow, these laws suck, not going to spend time with women ever!” … Rather, I think females have inflated the true price of their sexual currency (in time, money, bonding) and men simply aren’t buying into it at all. A man seeks pleasure in his life: women are being replaced by video games, the internet, and so forth … and the need for sex is easily met by the fact that it’s easy to find willing women at any bar. (I mean, even you say that the bitches are responsible for the man-drought … not the laws themselves).

All I know is that it would be prudent to invest in companies that produce cat food and cat-related necessities.

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Okay this premise of a “man-drought” is ridiculous. Even a warpig can wake up each morning and if she wanted to could say “I think I’ll get some dick today.” and go off easily and do so.

There has never been a shortage of sex for women (and therefore reproduction), so these Australian women’s claims must be geared toward “GOOD-man-drought”. Meaning men they want to date? Marry? I don’t know, but it’s sad they haven’t figured out that they’re only good for sex and sperm. The rest is an unnecessary headache for most normal women.

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@ LR

You know you’re right. I think it would be quite fun to put the woman in the fields while I sit on the porch watching, sippin on a mint julep. I rather like this idea. Maybe feminism isn’t such a bad idea! Now get back to work or I shall have you horsewhipped.

Anyways, your reading comprehension is below that of a mongoloid. Do you think anyone here is married?

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Anyways, your reading comprehension is below that of a mongoloid. Do you think anyone here is married?

I agree. I have an uncle who is a mongoloid.

He can make sandwiches.

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To give a non-snarky answer, those men probably realize that if their wife is not also a high earner, they are going to get raped in divorce court if she ever leaves them.

For men, being the higher earning party exposes you to a huge financial and personal risk at all times, beyond just being married (which is already pretty dangerous for a male).

The only thing that surprises me is that you are finding men who want to get married at all. For myself and my friends (late 20s through late 30s), the majority of us do not want to get married, and most of us are high achieving / high earning men (lawyers, doctors, bankers, etc).

I suspect, Daphne, that traditional men will return when laws do not make them criminals immediately upon getting married.

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Yes. This is a standard one. Apparently it is my fault I did not pick the ‘right woman’ and the solution to my ‘problem’ is that I should go out and pick another woman and hope she is the ‘right’ one.

Hold on. My wife committed crimes. Kidnapping, perjury, theft and extortion. For some reason I am responsible for this other adults actions because I picked the ‘wrong’ woman. And the woman is NOT responsible for her actions because, well, because she is a woman and is obviously privileged to be above the law. And all those other women out there are such crap human beings that they think that a man who is the victim of crimes committed by a female perpetrator somehow ‘brought it on himself’.

Young men take note. Women believe they can commit crimes with impunity and hold YOU accountable for the crimes committed against you. If that does not make women complete crap nowadays I don’t know what does.

What do women say about this? Nothing. What do women say about sitting on juries and judging women who commit crimes against men? Nothing. So far I have two women willing to sit on a jury to try my ex. It’s like pulling teeth. Women are crap. I’m prepared to say it. I’m prepared to back it up with evidence. And women just respond with blah, blah, blah.

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Not really, Snarky. I don’t think the men looking for high earners are bad guys at all, I believe they’ve programmed by the past thirty years of liberal doggerel just like the women. But, it does seem to me that many of you (and them) are saying they ideally want one thing then demand quite another in actuality.

The divorce laws given as a reason makes sense, men do get the short end of the stick when a marriage ends in court. My personal observations of the many married couples in our circle have shown that the happier couples are ones that are modeled on more traditional dynamics; the wives don’t bitch about their husbands, they keep themselves fit and attractive, they still like to have sex with their men, take pride in domestic skills and raising good children. Their husbands act like stand-up men and fathers, no pussies in that bunch. No divorces either.

One thing that stands out in stark relief between the women who work and the women who don’t (at least in my upscale circle) is the lack of respect the workers show their husbands in public. Bitchy comments, unkind, humiliating stories told in front of others and get more than a half a glass of wine down their throats and you’ll hear about their horrible sex lives, how much they hate it or dread Saturday night. So many of these women are miserable creatures. I do feel sorry for their husbands, but I wonder if it’s just that they’re natural born, nasty shrews or if they’d be happier, softer, have more respect for the men they married if he owned the mantle of Head Of Household.

Apologies for going on so long. This is one of those subjects that interest me greatly. I’m the mother of three sons and I worry they won’t find the kind of love and fine relationship that their father and I share.

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@Rebel, your mention of the rats study prompted a Google search. The paper is by John B. Calhoun and is called “Population Density and Social Pathology”.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1501789/ …appears to allow a download of the PDF but all I see is the first page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun …summarizes the man and the paper. Oddly, this Wikipedia entry omits any mention of the large proportion of male rats that turned gay. (Is this omission on purpose? It’s surely not a politically correct finding.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636191/ …has a deeper summary and some comments about the paper’s impact.

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Daphne,

Thanks for the follow-up comment. I guess I had misinterpreted you!

There’s an article which relates to this very issue … it’s from 2007 but Angry Harry linked to it just today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467390/Househusband-backlash-high-flying-wives-ditch-men-em-em-wanted-stay-home.html

“high-flying wives ditch men they wanted to stay at home”

See, when women exhibit this kind of behaviour en masse, the question men are asking stops being “what do women want?” and becomes “who cares what women want?” Clearly, what they say they want isn’t good enough for them. And the burdens for this will always fall on the man, who loses his children despite being the primary carer.

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porkchop December 15, 2009 at 9:35 am
“The current laws in the US”

How many times am I going to have to repeat myself on this site before someone with a brain actually confirms in the Blacks Law Dictionary or via all the links I have posted that Legislation and Statutes are NOT LAWS!

Spearhead is about “piercing the shield of ignorance. And one of the most important points most people here are ignorant about is the FACT that statutes and legislation are NOT LAWS. The people in parliaments and governments DO NOT CREATE LAWS. Until you stop mistakenly calling statutes and legislation laws you will not get that you do not need to obey them.

Until that simple sentence sinks into the rather impervious skulls of people they are going to continue to be slaves to their masters and so they should be. People who are wilfully ignorant should be robbed blind and abused. Serves them right for not educating themselves!

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@Lady Raine

I just don’t see why you are all so hateful and disdainful of marriage…..but then turn around and say “most of us here are NOT married”. So what do you care then? I know I don’t care who’s getting married or not getting married……because it doesn’t affect me.

Your comment illustrates one very significant difference between men and women. (Many/most) women are pragmatic and focused only on how a given set of circumstances affects them. As you said……“I don’t care…….because it doesn’t affect me.”

My considered conclusion is that the reason for this is rooted in female evolutionary biology. e.g. “How do I feed my infant today?“ Your female human ancestors who did not think this way did not successfully propagate their genes.

(Some/a minority of) men do NOT think this way, for reasons that I think are also rooted in evolutionary biology. e.g. “How do I get my family/the tribe through the winter?”

For the most part, it is beta males who think this way, though I think the alpha/beta dichotomy is artificial – most men have a mix of alpha and beta traits.

To get to the point, female pragmatism makes women poor stewards of civilization, because they do not consider and ultimately do not care about abstract (to them) future consequences.

My guess is you will prove my point by dismissing my opinion out of hand because my opinion has no effect on you.

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Well…not a ‘right woman’ story but not bad…..a story from my weekend.

I am a high beta but definitely not alpha..I can play alpha but I am not. A mans got to know his limitations…So I tried an experiment on the weekend. I was with my fav#1 with whom I am a beta. I’ve known her for two years and we’ve dated 20 months or so. She knows me as well as any woman. She was there for me in my lowest times. She has seen me at my worst and most upset states. She has been very kind to me.

So we have this conversation about alphas and betas etc and she listens to it all. And my experiment was then to act ‘alpha’ for the day even though she clearly knows I am beta and knows I was acting and knows it was an experiment. I tell her all about a date I had with fav#2 about 5 weeks ago before I went to Australia. Lots of details but not ‘too much’. I made sure I listed ALL the things fav#2 did that were ‘better’.

Result? Well, it surprised me but won’t surprise the other alphas. Instead of being ‘upset’ I was telling her that she was second rate at some things she immediately pulled out all stops to do better than fav#2 in those areas I had told her she was down on. And she tried harder all around as well. And not only that, she was chirpier and happier than she has been ‘normally’.

Every time I said, ‘yep, that was better than fav#2′ she took great pride and joy in doing that. It was like she was competing with the ‘other woman’ right there. She even put on lingerie and danced for me to ‘November Rain’ by Guns and Roses. She picked it because she knows it is one of my favourite songs and she wanted to dance to a song she knows I am going to play at least once a week..LOL!!. I will never, ever be able to listen to that song again without seeing her dancing to it. WOW! Just WOW. That is what I call ‘smoking’.

I really have to try this alpha stuff more and not just attract women with it in the first place. I thought this woman was trying as hard as she could to get me to marry her. Nope. She had another gear to change up to yet that she was holding out on….I told her before I left that I was going to have to be ‘more alpha’ with her. She seemed to be happier as well. I think she really wants a ‘strong man’ meaning more alpha.

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@Daphne
 
“But, it does seem to me that many of you (and them) are saying they ideally want one thing then demand quite another in actuality.”
 
I don’t think many of us are demanding stay-at-home wives.  I think it is fair to say that most on this site are not interested in getting married to a Western woman at all.  The guys you describe belong to a large but shrinking group of men who are unknowingly at the frontline of the genderwar.  The issue you bring up, like most cultural issues, is complicated.  One issue that is a piece of the puzzle is that most Western women aren’t satisfied with the stable provider types you describe.  They get bored with marriage to these kinds of men, and typically want and desire physical relationships with bad boys/sociopaths.  Once this pattern is established in their youth, they typically do not change.  The only thing that changes is their ability to attract the bad boys, which is why they “settle down” with one of the guys you describe.  In most cases, the marriage is doomed to failure from the start.  They don’t love the stable provider, as you describe, they have quite a bit of contempt for him.

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Welmer, as usual, your articles are rich and insightful. Lots of potential things to comment on.

I see the fundamental problem with the “right woman” archetype here in that it’s entirely positioned as a passive or exogenous concept. The corollary to this type of “right woman” hypothesis is that she exists “out there”–unchanging and outside of one’s control. Much like winning the lottery, she is something that happens TO YOU, the male member of the species, rather than something you actively bring about through deft management or control.

Yet if there’s one message at all in “game” it’s that by becoming aware of yourself and the social economy you do two things: 1) you more quickly winnow the field of undesirables, and 2) you better manage and actually re-shape the resulting women in the process. In this manner, the “right woman” is not something that happens TO you in some passive sense and while you go about your other business. The “right” woman is actually something (or someone) you create and develop. Rather than something mythical and out-there, the “right woman” is better thought of as a trait or feature that already exists inside a great many women. It’s merely lying dormant, albeit perhaps buried under false programming, and waiting for you to train, demand, to bring out.

No doubt about it. It takes a shit-load of work to find. Oddly, it takes even more work, once awoken and in an LTR, to maintain and continually develop that “right woman.”

I understand the world is chock-full of bitchy women. Feminism (and materialism) have exerted a profound effect on the female half of the species. But I’m also tired of the beta-ized man or the woman-gone-done-me-wrong type of attitude that I see in some men. Both modes of thinking feed the concept of the “right woman” as passive (as something that happens TO you) and outside one’s control.

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They are talking about finding men stupid enough to marry, not just stupid enough to have sex with them. If you think there is no ‘man drought’ around marriage come to germany. Even the most amazingly beautiful women can not find a man even close to interested in marrying them. All the women I date are trying to get men to marry them. I am just one in the line they are trying to close that deal with.

Okay, well I believe you then that this “man-drought” exists. But you are describing what I called a “good-man-drought” and not an actual “reproductive breakdown” of the system….which is what I think of when someone says “man-drought”.

I am genuinely glad that marriage isn’t my thing. It sounds like my weird, solitary nature is the way to go right now!!! I would neither want to be a man nor a woman out there on a “spouse-hunt” the way things are today.

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Daphne,

Here would be my advice for your children:

1 – Tell them not to get married. You can live with a woman, and you can have children with her, and still retain far more control over your life, your relationship, and your legal rights than you can if you get married. Make sure to pick the right state for this (some are more adversarial towards single life than others); I am assuming you are in the US here. If not, YMMV.

2 – Tell them to look for women that are, shall we say, women. By this, I mean either the incredible rare American woman who is still caring and likes men, but far more likely to be a foreign woman. Living in another country, if plausible, is also not a bad idea (especially if you avoid Western Europe) on this front. John Nada, etc, will know more on that front. Agreed that conservative religious communities are also a better bet.

3 – If they do insist on getting married, do it the right way. Make sure to get an ironclad pre-nup with lawyers present for both sides so that it will be enforced, and spell out clearly the issues that can be covered by one. Make sure your sons understand that they are about two and a half times more likely to have their wife divorce them than they are to divorce her, and make sure the agreement reflects that; a pre-nup should provide a disincentive for a wife to cheat or treat her husband badly, then divorce.

4 – Train your sons to have a backbone, to stand up to women, and not to take their shit. Also train them to quietly record most of their conversations and interactions in private, or that grow the least bit heated, as otherwise it’s too easy to falsely accuse them of misconduct.

Even so, the best advice is probably summed up as this when dealing with Western women: don’t. The odds are not in your favor. You might get lucky and not get burned, but that’s true of Russian Roulette as well, and I don’t see that as an argument to play that game.

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Stranger things have happened.

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Jabherwochie:

@LR-

Did you actually just deflect with humor? You might be growing on me. I actually hate you a little less now.

Careful man, it has a vagina.

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Women’s immune systems are stronger during pregnancy and lactation, which is one of the reasons that they need so many calories. Women died off from childbirth complications.

Zed,

Your birth rate hypothesis is true on the global scale. But within a single country, it is religion and the much-detested “traditional values” that determines the relative birth rate. Even globally, more religious/traditional countries have higher birth rates, even when they have similar living standards. That is why America has a much higher birthrate than Germany.

Monogamy is not dead, it is merely concentrated. And those who are monogamous are the ones with the highest birth rate and the most successful offspring, and are therefore the ones who determine the future.

Mate selection used to be handled within a cultural/religious group. Men and women were both raised to be complementary mates for the other. So you could merely pick someone attractive from the other half and be relatively sure that they would be an acceptable mate.

Now people are raised to… well, I’m not really sure what they are raised to be. Consumers, I suppose. Anyway, this sort of mate-grooming is still going on in sub-cultures (such as the Mormons, Hasidic Jews, devout Catholics and Hindus) and these cultures have the most successful marriages and the highest birth rates.

If you are outside of one of these environments, the chances of meeting a suitable mate probably drop considerably. It doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but it’s improbable.

I am not the product of a devout Catholic environment and I see how much more difficult it is for me to squeeze myself into a proper wifely role. Those women I know who are raised in it find it much simpler and more natural; their personalities and character are molded from birth. Whereas for me, it is like putting a square peg in a round hole. Taking the strident child of two liberal feminists and turning her into a “proper Catholic wife” is a never-ending undertaking.

It’s something I resent about born-and-raised conservative Christians looking down their noses at the newer members for our small foibles. We’re being critiqued on the fact that our neckline is too low, our laugh is too loud, or our speech immodest. They fail to recognize that we’re still fighting to digest the enormity of the Ten Commandments or struggling to grasp the very concept of modesty. It’s arrogance and a lack of empathy and I’ve seen it drive away potential converts. Reminds me a bit of the Pharisees.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there…

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@ Charles Martel, zed, Novaseeker, Welmer especially, and others.

Incredible thread. I think this is the best summary I’ve yet seen of everything that a man who has not taken the red pill needs to read.

@Novaseeker

I think I have one thing to add to the discussion that was going on in the early part of the thread.

I distinguish between two instincts for women. The hypergamous instinct (get knocked up by the most alpha man). And the provision instinct (trade sex for provision/protection), which could also be called the pair-bond instinct. I believe these two instincts can be at times working together, at times in conflict, and most importantly, rise and fall in relationship to each other in how strongly they are expressed depending on the specific situations. It will always be wrong to give an absolute that women will act on just one instinct or the other because both are always present.

In harsh times like Novaseeker is talking about, the hypergamous instinct will tend to be more suppressed or sublimated to the the provision instinct. But it is still there and will be active whenever conditions for it arise.

In easier times the provision instinct becomes less important and the situation is reversed. The hypergamous instinct will rise in importance.

And what we have seen in modern times is a combination of resources being as abundant as ever, and the oft-noted substitution of the state as the provider/protector. And it’s unclear to me whether the all out cultural attack on the instinct (Feminism-Marxism) is simply a natural reaction correlated with the resource abundance or its own separate cause.

Nevertheless the result is as powerful a submission of this provision/pair-bond instinct as has ever taken place. And therefore the hypergamous instinct is now run rampant.

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Do What Thou Wilt—-

“Ray-Kudos on the Scientology and Babalon Working references but you’re critiquing Crowley from an unprovable assertion that the teachings of a particular religion are objectively true, with supremacy over all other belief systems. Thats a little like saying a particular basketball team is perfect because it’s you’re favorite, and disregard all evidence to the contrary.
Crowley, Parsons, and L Ron were all trying to teach us that we have a creative spark inside.”

no they werent, they were specifically, by the admission of their own (proudly spoken!) words, trying to “raise the spirit of the Goddess Babylon” to rule over the modern/new age

in sociopolitical terms, they were trying to FULLY re-institute matriarchy in america, and across the planet

and — with a LOT of help from other sources, economic and political etc — they essentially succeeded in both the (pseudo) religious and practical aspects of their “work”

now, amidst matriarchy spread all over the western world, here y’all are on a men’s site, one of the very few, tiny voices of objection to that encompassing matriarchy, defending the very people who intentionally placed western boys and men in their chains

crowley, hubbard, and rocket jack were all not merely feminists, they were matriarchalists — so now that their politics and philosophy have conquered, here you are rubbing mens’ faces in their subjugation, and praising the methods and mentalities of their enslavers

massive dissonance, capital DIS

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Wait.

Is it me or did Raine just call Mormons, Catholics, Hasidic Jews, and Hindus “lesser cultures”?

Your true colors as a racist, supremacist, and bigot are showing, dear. (Along with your inability to understand facts, such as Mormons having, on average, both higher income and more children than other Americans – whoops!)

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“Your true colors as a racist, supremacist, and bigot are showing, dear. ”

Actually, she is quite proud of all that. She thinks they are a testement to her strength. Bare with me. I’m going to try a softer approach on her. She doesn’t like the blow torch to the vaginal wall technique, so I’m going to use a nice lubed up set of anal beads to see if I can make her soul tingle a bit. Somewhere, she has a pleasent side. I’ll either dig deep enough to find it, or I’ll kill her due to the inherent dangers of such experimental psychic surgery. I’m all about setting up win-win scenerios.

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Lady Raine-

I dub you my squire of RA rank (Rights activist). One day, under my tuteledge and patient touch, you will earn your M. First thing you need to do, go out and buy a dress. They are quite freeing from what I understand, truely an upside to being a women. Then wear it. After that, learn how to make Fedrz a sandwich. You may mail it to him. (Fedrz, don’t eat it! We can’t even come close to trusting her yet. Just verify that it looks edible and then feed it to a neighborhood dog. Observe said dog for spasms and vomitting. Report back to me.) Ready my Lady. Go.

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Ohhhh Jabher–

Keep the horsey in the barn, buddy.

I have several “pleasant sides” and also have been wearing dresses for a long time.

As for my ego, you shalt not rain on my parade.

You are no Hannibal Lecter!

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porkchop December 15, 2009 at 11:11 am
“They are called divorce laws by many people, and everyone gets the gist of what I’m talking about.”
Yes, they are. And that is a hoax. The idea is to make people believe they have to ‘obey the law’. But spearhead is about ‘piercing the shield of ignorance’ and the MOST important piece to pierce is the idea that we are dealing with laws not legislation and statutes.

600 years ago ‘everyone’ knew the world was flat as well. It didn’t make it true and it didn’t make it a useful distinction except for the leaders.

While you (and all the other ‘law’ ignorant men here) believe you are dealing with ‘laws’ and you have had drummed into you ‘no-one is above the law’ you will not go looking for the remedy which is to simply rescind your consent to be governed by these laws. A man in a common law country can rescind his consent and re-capture his strawman in about 20 days elapsed. He can simply go ‘free man’ in one day by issuing his claim of right which will not be challenged.

So, in my book, any man complaining about ‘feminism’ who has not rescinded his consent to be subject to feminist statutes/legislation, now that I have been telling them that they can do this, is just a ‘whining loser’ not willing to do his homework. Period.

“I’m sure the corrupt judge will understand when I tell him I will not pay alimony or child support because we are dealing with statutes and legislation, not laws.”

I just stood in a court in Australia and told the magistrate words to the effect:

“I have issued my claim of right to the Queen, Prime Minister, the Governer General and the Attorney General. In my claim of right I claim you have no jurisdiction to force your adjudication services on me. This has been agreed by none-response and acquiesence and I have issued a permanent estopple. You have no right to force your adjudication services on me without my consent and I don’t consent.”

He replied “that is a fantasy”

To which I replied that it does not matter what he says, it matters what he is willing to put on an affidavit under penalty of perjury.

I have charged one magistrate with common law theft and hope to get the second one. And I have noticed the Australian PM and AG they too will be charged with accessory after the fact to common law theft if they do not direct their employees to obey the common law of Australia. I even noted that it seems lawful to assassinate such magistrates under the Geneva Conventions.

So yes. There is a proper way to tell the judge that you refuse his offered adjudication services. The same way you tell a McDonalds burger flipper you don’t want to eat his burgers. “No. I do not consent to avail of your services. Good day.”

There is no legal difference between a judge serving in a UCC court (which they all are) and a McDonalds burger flipper. NONE AT ALL. They can be treated the same way. You just have to know what you are doing.

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Global,
If it is as easy as you portray to shake off the abuse the legal system dishes out to men in a divorce proceeding here in the USA, write a coherent article on it and hopefully Welmer will post it.  If you can intelligently prove your point, I would like to read such an article.  However, your angst-filled off topic rants that you jump into threads with have become tiresome.
 

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The Amish are an excellent example; I live out near Amish country and run across them quite frequently. They have hordes of children and the kids are generally neatly dressed, well-behaved, highly literate and numerate, and healthy. Sounds like reproductive success to me. Their population is growing fast, but they cause so little trouble that nobody notices or minds.

From Wikepedia:
Rough estimates from various studies have placed their numbers at 125,000 in 1992, 166,000 in 2000, and 221,000 in 2008, for a growth rate of nearly 4% per year. From 1992 to 2008, population growth among the Amish in North America was 84%. During that time they established 184 new settlements and moved into six new states. In 2000, approximately 165,620 Old Order Amish resided in the United States, of which 73,609 were church members. The Amish are among the fastest-growing populations in the world, with an average of 6.8 children per family.

That’s a definite win.

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pretty, kind, caring, not stupid, modest and helpful

I understand that those are qualities you may find the most attractive in a woman, but are they necessarily the most important qualities in a wife and mother? I would think fertility, honesty, frugality, humor, industriousness, housekeeping skills, loving and sacrificial behavior, loyalty, morality, spirituality, intelligence, stewardship, etc. would be more important. The woman you describe sounds rather colorless. Or was that the point?

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Yes, Global, it has escaped me. If my name isn’t in the first line, I don’t typically read your Danny Bonaduce-like posts.

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“If it is as easy as you portray to shake off the abuse the legal system dishes out to men in a divorce proceeding here in the USA, write a coherent article on it and hopefully Welmer will post it.”

In case it escaped you I have offered to enter into an agreement with Welmer to provide copies of all my docs and the video of my court hearing so long as my name is kept out of the public eye. I have also, rather endlessly, provided links to sites that demonstrate these techniques work in all former british colonies.

WTF? My point of reference regarding the response was not the laws in the former British colonies. I specifically stated:

The current laws in the US and the pool of women of child-bearing age don’t allow for a man to be head of the household in the traditional sense.

Your rant is even more pointless and idiotic than it first appeared.

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Lady Raine, using your self as a personal example does not provide any compelling truth that Hestia’s statement is wrong.

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Yes. Practicing religious people generally have higher income, better health, more successful marriages, and more children.

Please show me those stats and what you consider a “practicing religion”.

Any religion that doesn’t allow people to use birth control and accepts ANY Welfare because of their own dumb religious beliefs is yet another vampire on the teet of my tax dollars.

I’m mostly referring to Catholics and their “Family Planning Method” which involves fucking like bunnies, popping out 10 kids because Jesus said it’s fine, and then Jesus ALSO tells them it’s fine to live on Welfare and that OTHER people (taxpayers) should have to pay for their religious choice to be weird and nasty.

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And you are confusing NFP with the rhythm method.

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I don’t think there is a universal “ideal woman” for a man. I myself have hypothesized that if some men had chosen better women to associate with, marry, and have relationships with in their past (and quite possibly their present) that they may be less damaged, jaded, and bitter. Here’s the key part to that: Most men “find themselves” a little too late, and choose the wrong woman for them in their youth or early adulthood. The same goes for women. So many girls/women I know and talk to, have chosen real bastards and after time spent digging deeper into their individual situations, I have concluded that lack of a strong “self core” is to blame for most of them. If a girl is healthy and reasonably intelligent, there is no reason she should date an asshole. If a guy developed himself, has tested himself, and is truly and honestly aware of who he is, then he would have put a prompt end to a bad relationship with an evil, manipulative women. Unfortunately, we often have to explore such negative relations in order to gain the wisdom to avoid them. I think it becomes too late for some, and they cross the point of no return, so to speak. Basically, they may fail in removing themselves from bad dating patterns or unhealthy relationships and they then become damaged, permanently. My argument with finding better quality women is tied to so many poeple being generally self unaware for too long. This falls back on how a person was raised or not raised. One must go through a period in life and pull themselves away from outside influences completely, whether it’s parents, friends, school, or all of the these. A person must not become defined by or dependent on what certain groups or individuals think of them. So many are guilty of allowing other opinions to shape their choices and they can often be the wrong choices for said person. Different men have different ideals they wish a woman to have for them to want to spend time with them. I’m a fan of “shrinking” a person or situation, but I am also aware that this can allow people to wallow in or excuse themselves from poor choices and/or tainted belief systems. It’s to the point today that so many are “fucked up” that I almost assume that already. I’m curious how each person I meet has reacted to or adjusted from being fucked up. That is where the true test of character comes in. I give a wide birth for self ignorance with people under 25 becasue it is almost mandatory for them to be doing stupid things. But once older, I start to hold the individual responsible for what they have or have not admitted to themsleves and others, and their decisions made regarding love, sex, and life.
It begins and ends with the individual. We should strive for the prevention of damage and instead we have so many sources that deal in the aftermath. It’s a real shame. I truly feel for those who have been crushed or used or abused by another. I just don’t know how to help them heal, and apparently there are not enough good woman to go around.

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Also, it doesn’t take into account the severe financial and security burden of delinquent fatherless children.

I think ALL women should take into consideration “Can I afford this child myself if my marriage or LTR ends?” Before EVER considering having a child.

I pay for my son strictly with MY income. Same with my home, my bills, my health insurance, and babysitters. I don’t “drain” society in any way with my choice and I don’t think ANY woman should do so intentionally. A woman should NOT have children based on “well I’m married and my hubbie loves me and would NEVER dick me over”.

That’s how this whole mess started. Women think the ring on the finger is magical and will ensure that her husbands never leaves her and that she’ll never have to worry about her babies starving. WRONG. I’d urge ALL women to consider whether they can (financially) sustain their children alone before even thinking about a family.

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In our current unstable system, yes. It’s important for women to be educated generally, anyway, as that makes them better mates and parents. But do I think she needs to get a graduate degree? Probably not. An associates or a bachelors will do just fine, or related job experience. After that, she’d still be in her early 20s and highly fertile.

No, no…I didn’t mean a woman should have to be “rich” before having children. I meant that she should make sure she can at least raise her kids without Welfare and without Child Support. So, basically if a girl marries at 18 and pops out a bunch of babies and her hubbie decides to dump her 10 years later, she’ll probably REALLY regret having no work experience….no job history….and prob NO further education at all.

And that happens a lot to perfectly “nice” girls who just wanted to have a family and didn’t think it out (and the nasty realities of it)…..then find themselves as Welfare moms living around people and situations that they don’t know how to handle (like we already do).

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Daphne

I am a man who is the Head of the House. By any measure you care to name. I got married at 30 and am still married, to the same woman, now at age 54.

We have three children.

If you want to know more I can probably oblige.

My Headship is based on my religion, my personal view of what a marriage should be, and my status and actions.

I have been “running game” on my wife to improve our relationship over the last couple of months, and it has worked very well.

My wife does work, but only part-time. She runs the house. I earn most of the money.

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I’ve been married, to a woman who turned out to be a sociopath and a drug addict as well. The statement that some posters here have made about the majority of women not being worthy of marriage is sadly, true, If I knew when I was a young man what I know today, I would have never got married in the first place, and been much happier and better off in all respects. Women in my opinion are their own worst enemies, and the vast majority are unaware of how they make their own live miserable, let alone able to accept responsibility for instead of blaming all men. I’m done with women, and for men like me a dog or a cat is a much more loyal and caring companion than the basket cases my ex-wife and others before her I’ve met. There’s no such thing as the right woman for most men, except no woman. I’m getting older and therefore much better able to avoid the thinking with the dipstick trap that snares younger men who end up with harpies and their kids who may or may not even be his.

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