While I was in school in the 80s and early 90s, we children were given a great many warnings about the dangers of drugs, unsafe sex, talking to strangers, drunk driving, smoking, etc. We’d get literature about how we should always wear safety gear when bicycling or skateboarding, and we were frequently lectured about how our choices would affect our future. Sometimes older recovered addicts were brought in to tell us their stories, and we were subjected to graphic descriptions of drunk driving accidents. I’m not sure how much these programs helped steer kids clear of risky behavior, but I suspect they had some effect on the normal, obedient kids. Of course, their parents probably would have done the job just as well, but that’s for another post. Today, kids are probably even warned about internet safety and the dangers of video game addiction. They really try to cover all the bases. Or do they?
For all the warnings of dire consequences for making incorrect choices, schools never bothered to mention a thing about marriage. Sure, it was OK to talk about sex and drugs, but not the most important choice most people make in their lives, and this despite the fact that the American family was disintegrating at a record pace during those unfortunate years.
Today, young men are probably better informed than we were back in the 90s, before the internet really took off, and due to the fact that the devastation of the traditional family is no longer swept under the rug (as it still was when I was a kid), they are probably a lot more skeptical of marriage. I have seen some evidence of this, as young men appear to be a lot more wary even of long-term relationships with young women than they were only ten or fifteen years ago. Of course, the sluttiness of young American women is off the charts these days, so there isn’t much motivation for the young men to hook up long-term. This has a lot to do with why Italians were so shocked by Amanda Knox, who at one point boasted of doing a stranger in a train.
However, despite the stories I’m sure many young men have heard from friends and relatives, or the disasters seen first hand in their parents’ marriages, I doubt they really know just how bad it can be when a marriage goes south. For example, I don’t think very many of them know about VAWA, and that they can be thrown out of their own house on the basis of a single accusation without any hearing at all. Unlike earlier generations, they may be aware that plenty of wives cheat, but I doubt they know that getting upset about that and yelling insults can get them ordered into a domestic violence program that they must pay for, possibly as a condition for seeing their children, even if they never laid a hand on anyone. Do they know that if their wife gets physical with them and they attempt to restrain her, and then a neighbor calls the police, that someone is going to get arrested — probably the man? Additionally, they are probably unaware of just how merciless child support enforcement is, and how they can end up treated like a criminal – in fact, made a criminal – for losing a job. Did anyone tell them that their credit can be ruined or their passport revoked for falling behind for as little as a couple months?
In addition to the ruthless nature of family law, young men probably aren’t aware of just how nasty the women they loved can be in divorce. Has anyone told them about how a wife can go from apparent emotional detachment to all out war in an afternoon? Or that many, many women think nothing of ripping children away from a father, even when they mean more to him than anything else in his life? No, people are usually too cowardly to tell the truth.
People may argue that these are adult issues that shouldn’t be foisted on children. They may say that it would unduly traumatize and frighten young men to tell them this may happen, and anyway marriage is a private matter. They may say that, but the problem is that marriage is so heavily legislated that its dissolution can be far more consequential than being caught by the police with crack cocaine, and don’t we tell young men stories about guys who lost everything and ended up in prison for drug offenses? Girls are taken aside and warned about teen pregnancy; why aren’t boys taken aside and warned about it, too? They’ll be on the hook for child support even if they are 13 years old and the woman who seduced raped them is 25!
The failure of the state to inform boys and young men about the dangers of marriage goes beyond neglect, and gets into the realm of willful malevolence. Not even an Army recruiter would withhold the fact that soldiers are killed in war, so why would the state make no effort to inform potential husbands of the risks of marriage, if not from callous cynicism? Parents who fail to do so are acting negligently, although I’m sure many fathers who have never been through divorce are intentionally ignorant about the dangers; who wants to contemplate such horrors, after all? But every mother in the United States surely knows how easy it is to divorce a man, take the children and receive monthly payments for doing so. This being the case, the burden falls more heavily on mothers with sons. Mothers who do not explicitly tell their sons what other women can do to them are failing their own children, and in all seriousness they should be ashamed of themselves for holding the interests of strange women above those of their own flesh and blood.
Unfortunately, the job is probably up to us — at least for now. Until our society confesses to its abominable treatment of men, we few rabble-rousers will be all there is to warn boys of the perils ahead. Ours may be a lonely voice in the crowd, but it’s getting louder, and people are starting to fall silent and listen. We can only hope that the young hear us before it’s too late.
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{ 248 comments… read them below or add one }
men tend to be rational actors, so i’m just waiting for the circus that will erupt when the penalties get so out-of-hand that they just start killing their ex’s instead.
with men whose ex’es have wronged them and -also- taken them for everything, i can’t believe it’s not happening in masse already.
I almost want to make a poster that shows “Violence Against Women Act” spelled out next to “50% of domestic violence incidents are caused by women.” It’d show how glaringly biased the law is.
“men tend to be rational actors, so i’m just waiting for the circus that will erupt when the penalties get so out-of-hand that they just start killing their ex’s instead.”
Actually it has been fairly common if you read between the lines of ‘ex kills ex and children’ articles.
I used to work in a major states child support system. Researching case issues was extremely depressing.
I still say that one failure of the MRM is not conducting channels through which to educate young men about the laws. Even organize field trips to the divorce court to they can see what happens, and when they get banned from the audience, protest outside.
Yet these ideas are not done by MRAs.
The institution of monogamous marriage requires male participation to be above 80%. Once male participation drops below 80%, the whole institution is finished. Two many women are competing for too few males, and the concept is finished.
The 4 ideas (including) that will make MRM take off :
1) A rogue filmmaker making a documentary film.
2) Televised debates against feminists (or exposing their unwillingness to show up).
3) Street protests.
4) An infrastructure/organization to educate young men.
I agree that getting married is more risky than never wearing a seatbelt in your whole life. Most people never have a major car crash, so the seatbelt never came into action.
Marriage is riskier than driving your whole life without a seatbelt.
OT but is anyone else suspicious of this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/08/tiger-woods-woman-hospital-reports
1. Her family moves into his house to stir up trouble
2. He signs away his earlier pre-nup
3. She takes cash bung
4. She buys house in Sweden
5. She fakes a reason for a high profile ambulance trip to tip divorce proceedings further in her favour
Seems Tiger is being set up for a court raping.
I finally realize OJ Simpson’s point of view.
They turned it into a race issue, when in reality it was a feminism/divorce law issue. Extreme injustice and humiliation can turn even a peaceful man into a murderer.
Mothers who do not explicitly tell their sons what other women can do to them are failing their own children, and in all seriousness they should be ashamed of themselves for holding the interests of strange women above those of their own flesh and blood.
Surely you don’t think women can figure out cause and effect well enough to educate their sons.
Susan Walsh has a son, who is having difficulty in life. Yet, she still refuses to even consider that US divorce laws are unfair, and that feminism makes it very hard for the average man to score without Game. She insists that ‘all young men want to marry’. This is a woman with a Wharton MBA (albeit through Affirmative Action), no less.
Women are just not capable of being the stewards of civilization.
I am going to repeat an important point :
Men as diverse as Welmer, zed, Nova, Chuck, John Nada, Harry, globalman, Doug1, Obsidian, Joe, Avinguda, HL, Ferdinand, Roissy, Roosh, Wapiti, and myself all either refuse to marry, or do not advise others to marry (in HL’s case). All of these men cite the divorce laws as the primary reason.
Now if so many men are saying the same thing every day, one would think that it would register in even the most puny of intellects, would it not?
Yet, the women of this community, despite months of exposure, still say things like :
“Don’t you want to commit to a woman?”
“Don’t knock it until you try it at least once”
“Don’t you want companionship?’
Notice how the tone has shifted from the traditional shaming language to one of pleading. Perhaps reality is reaching even their limited intellects.
Isn’t it odd that an entire blog devoted to helping women ’secure the commitment of a quality man’ has not written a single sentence about the main reason such a wide range of men refuse to marry?
That is sort of like an astronomer being unaware of the existence of the Moon.
Obsidian is right – they just cannot address anything meaningfully.
Doesn’t this comment (and the main article that this comment is in) sort of sum the whole thing up?
Bingo. The only way that a male can know how divorce laws really work and how the state really don’t give a shit about males is that they see it with their own eyes. And its a crime that the media hides this truth from males in general and feeds them with bullshit.
Why a male should commit to a woman in her 30’s that didn’t even look at him at his 20’s because she was too busy recieving cock from Bad Guys?
Why a male should sign something that gives a woman and the State an excuse for sucking all his money and steal his children?
Why, for fuck’s sake, the women and the media have the guts to complain that males are opting out of marriage all together? Never tried to though why?
Really, mind boggles.
I agree that education about marriage is important to our society, but there are a whole range of issues that are also important and equally neglected in the collective schools. Simple things from using a checkbook to complex things like how the government works (not that silly elementary school “I’m just a bill” nonsence). HS graduates get to vote in national elections, yet are univeraslly ignorant about how our government operates and even our own government recognizes that they are universally incapable of managing their own lives (min drinking age = 21, min age to own a handgun = 21, min age to rent a car = 25).
The right place to teach about marriage and the family is in the church and in the family. Sadly, few people in those venues have the experience ot knowledge to give competent instruction about what happens after the honeymoon.
An excellent article this is. Even inspite of the politico-cultural opposition of biblical proportion to it, implicit in the existing misandric femaleist system.
For it is very very difficult for young boys to be taken aside and told the truth about sex, gender, politics and the hazards to be avoided by avoiding traditional romance and marriage. For the following reasons:
1.
Almost only boys are exclusively deprived of their fathers on divorce or separation, in ways and to extents girls arent deprived of their mothers. And many, many more boys are given birth to, in total absense of a father on the scene at all. So the most valuable friend and political ally of boys, found in fathers, are already exiled long before fathers can pass on their valuable information on politics, sex and gender.
2.
Even where a resident father is not yet deprived of his sons and his sons of their father, he is likely going to be working round the clock to provide and protect his family. Again, valuable time and opportunity is lost over the fathers full-time working years, to pass on valuable sex and political information onto sons plus get feedback . At almost all times, it is mothers that remain near the children, dessimating and reinforcing her female favouring information and propaganda to them.
3.
This rotting and degenerate femaleist society has deliberately structured overarching public mythologies that seriously contaminates and compromises the icon, standing, status, footing and image of fatherhood. Patriarchy as represented by fathers and husbands, is such an excoriated and widely hated bogeyman, his words and deeds are only to be twisted, turned and rendered of malign influence. How then can sons see or hear through this fog of cultural revulsion, to the persons that their fathers really are and the men that they too will become ?
“Marriage is riskier than driving your whole life without a seatbelt.”
I wrote a very good analogy awhile back on the Happy Bachelor’s forum, Markymark posted it on his site under my username on another site, Migs. I detailed in great detail what happens, and the type of person she turns into which will be unrecognizable to you. I will see if I can find it and post it here. The analogy of a seat belt is much too mild. I have been through this more than once to my shame, but I learned very quickly to be as ready, ruthless and I guarantee you ethics and morals are out the window, especially if lawyers get involved.
Anyone who reads any of my comments will quickly understand that I don’t rate women highly. This also goes for mothers. I don’t think a mother is a boy’s best friend. In fact it is through her that the poison first enters his body.
Mothers don’t raise boys to be men but to be the providers for women. They bring up the next generation of fools.
Some one a little while back responded to one of my comments by saying something along the lines that women had probably damaged me including my mother. I thought this was very insightful since I had never directly referred to this in any of my comments.
My mother died in the eighties and although I have never said so my inner feeling where ones of relief and liberation. But by then it was already too late for me. The poison had entered my being and my soul was destroyed.
Was it my mother who sentenced me to a life that has been utterly without merit or happiness? Was it through her that I was passed from her womb to the iron chamber of marriage wherein I was tortured and left hollow? I can not answer for sure but I know where my anger lies.
This is the ONLY way in which the MRM will ultimately succeed. I.e. through spreading the “marriage strike”.
Things will change when the legislators become afraid. When they are afraid for themselves, afraid for their sons, and also seeing their daughters on the verge of never married spinsterhood.
Only then will the Legislators act.
Or when the judges are afraid that a man suffering injustice in court try to get in touch with them for a “one-to-one discussion”.
*Paul
Though I was close to my mother, right before she died she did everything she could to push me into a marriage with a woman who had gotten extremely close to her FOR THAT REASON! There was money involved (is this a big surprise?) In addition, this woman focused on my one vulnerability (my autistic son, who I have watched over for years). I’m going to ask a friend of mine on the Happy Bachelor board for permission to post his ‘red pill’ for any man considering marriage. It should be required reading. I have mentioned on here that any woman should be forgiven the mention of the “M” word once–any reference to it after and you walk. Just..don’t..do..it! The phrase “happily married” should be an oxymoron.
I should preface my previous comment that in countries without misandrist laws, marriage is not as dangerous. The reason is NOT because women are different, it is because they were raised with a different culture and restrained in the damage they can do to a man because of the laws there.
@Puma
“This is the ONLY way in which the MRM will ultimately succeed. I.e. through spreading the “marriage strike”.
I’m afraid that this will not be enough. We have become a matrairchy already. This means that from now on, most, if not all children, will be born to single mothers. And that’s perfectly all right with the government (our number one enemy).
The only way to “fix”? this is with a reproduction strike.
Men, remember, are irrelevant at best in our society, but children are not for obvious reasons (future). So, if men were wising up for good, they would ensure that they do not impregnate ANY woman.
Then, if we are strong and do not back off, we might get some of our freedom back.
Be prepared for a long, very, very long war.
I’m looking forward to that. It’s taking much time…but I console myself thinking that the longer we wait, the more powerful our wrath will be, the hotter the fracas that will follow.
I prophesize (and pontificate) that before the gender war comes to an end, it will reach levels inimaginable to us now.
Who said “love is in the air”? Well, he was wrong!!
I’d like to present a counter-point, this one time.
While it is true that in most cases women are the abuser, don’t be a fool and think that many men wouldn’t want to get their jollies off being insanely cruel and selfish.
When my mother divorced my father, she let him keep the house. She then moved less than 10 miles away, and stayed within ten miles the entire time we were kids, and never interfered with regular visitation.
Since my dad is about as greedy as you can get, there where several instances during the divorce where she could have called the cops on him, with cause, and got him arrested. Once he decided she had ’stolen’ some jewelry she took when she left. So he stormed into her parents house, threatening her and searching for it.
That’s a real call to the police, folks. And it would have been in 1910 too. She didn’t.
Ah, but the child-support, right? It was set when we left at a fairly high level…. except dad got to claim us on his taxes.
And then it was never raised. Not once. Not one single time in eighteen years. Daddy, using his figuring abilities, has deduced that he will simply ignore this while raving about how he was left a pauper. In the house they owned before the divorce.
The eighteen years is because we went to college. And it’s fortunate that it was in the divorce decree, because base child support is +80% of what he contributed to our college education. Gifts are almost half of the remainder.
Back in 1998, he somewhat unwisely boasted to my brother that he had over a million dollars net worth. Now he simply refuses to say anything. He used to lie, but we laughed at him, so he has stopped that. Awfully big of him. For the record, he was an engineer at McDonald Douglas, and made about 100,000 dollars a year when he retired. His total contribution to both our upbringings is definitely under 180,000. By quite a bit. Yes, I included the child-support, the presents, and other off-expenses. How do you think it got ’so high’?
This doesn’t stop the raving though. Like I care. Beady-little-pig-eye boy doesn’t like my dead-eyes at all. There was one period where I didn’t talk to him for two years. So what.
When the optimal, and only acceptable, child-raising expense level is ZERO, you are going to be a lousy parent. Had my mom not divorced my father, no doubt he could have improved on his current sub-optimal performance by pushing costs closer to zero.
Zero, the perfect number. The IDEAL number.
…. and by the way… the reproduction strike should be accompanied with a corresponding DISINTEREST for the society- working just enough hours to get by, not consuming, not participating- resulting is very few tax dollars “given” to our common enemy.
This should make the system implode.
I just wanted to show that men are not powerless: quite on the contrary, we constitute a formidable force that can bring the country to its knees. And WHO could stop us?
Nobody!
“The only way to “fix”? this is with a reproduction strike.”
This will require male contraception. With it, the game will be completely different. But, for decades, we are being told that “it is on the way”, “it is only five years away”.
Until male contraception comes, reproduction will still happen through so-called “accidents”.
***
This. Moreover from a cultural standpoint, the downward percussion from the herd in many places OUTSIDE the Anglosphere is almost the polar opposite: they pressure females to BEHAVE and keep the marriage, family–and by extension, society together. Family is the social safety net, not Social Security payments.
Bad women run the risk of being left destitute through fair and just divorce laws plus their failure to conform culturally conformity affects the extended family unit= a woman without a clan condemned to possible total marginalization from society.
What a stark contrast to the “strong, independent” 1WF (first world female), no?
I don’t understand what you guys are “up in arms about”? Last I checked, there are less an less women getting married or WANTING to get married. As far as I know, I’m pretty sure marriage is still A CHOICE here in the United States.
So what are you complaining about? If you don’t like marriage…..don’t get married. That’s what I did. What’s to argue, lobby, and shriek about? You aren’t required to marry a woman, you aren’t required to have children, and men have the same “birth control options” that women do!
You have the “option” to have a Paternity test when your child is born….you have the option of having a Vasectomy (which IS a male birth control option since most of you consider “abortion” a birth control option for women and Vasectomies are a walk in the park and not even considered “surgery” now). You have condoms, abstinence, and the ability to walk away from ANY child you create.
The only responsibility the “men” are still given is making sure they send a check in the mail at the end of the month like paying a cable or phone bill. You sincerely think you are a “victim”??? Unless the woman raped you, stole your sperm, and ran off to have your babies……you are not a victim.
What it really comes down to is that “marriage” is a totally optional arrangement in life for both men and women, so if you don’t like it…..don’t do it. Arguement over.
Children are also a CHOICE. It’s a chance you take when you take your penis out and put it into a woman’s body. You learned it in the 5 th grade that penis+vagina=baby.
Now you can’t even handle understanding THAT? If you had sex you are responsible for any and all children that come from that sexual union. You are not a “victim” when you accidentally get a woman pregnant and she doesn’t want an abortion for the million obvious reasons that a woman might be against getting one.
How is that YOU being made a victim?
I have a simple solution for all of this. Any man who is (proven) to be a child’s father and CANNOT or WILL NOT pay child support should be required by law to have a Vasectomy. There is no reason why the taxpayers should be paying for more babies that deadbeat dads create and then run out on. There is also no reason why we need more babies tossed in dumpsters and kids in Orphanages.
You say “women have the upperhand” but we don’t. I cannot imagine the luxury of just sending a check in the mail for all my “fuck ups” in life.
Really, you gentlemen should be insulted that the Government and Legal system think so little of you that they don’t even think you can handle making a payment, let alone having custody of the children.
Maybe if more of you men would FIGHT for custody of your kids…..the legal system would consider you “responsible” and being treated “unfairly”. Stop blaming women for your laziness in not wanting to actually “raise” the children you are paying for.
I don’t see what the whole argument is. If you are a man or a woman and you make a baby, it’s your responsibility to raise it, pay for it, and care for it. That’s the choice you make when you have sex.
If you get married, your are rolling the dice and taking a “risk” that you are well aware of. If you don’t want that risk, don’t roll the dice to start with.
Everything you are arguing is a matter of a choice that is given to both men and women. If you don’t like the “fine print” and do it anyway……you have no one to blame but yourselves.
You’re worse than the Blacks that ask for “reparations”.
The Fifth Horseman December 8, 2009 at 6:21 am
“I am going to repeat an important point”
All, it is worth repeating. I was with one woman for 23 years. I raised her two kids from a previous marriage as my own. I was so well regarded as the archtypal ‘family man’ that I was asked to eulogise my two grandmothers on the event of their passing. My step son has hugged me and told me I was the best possible ‘father’ he could have had. My FIL called me the best possible husband his daughter could ever have.
Yet, at my so called ‘court hearing’ my exs lawyer stood and told blatant lies about me and the magistate refused to agree to allow a defense with my rights in tact. My ex claimed in court that the ‘appropriate’ split was 84/16. Young men, read that again 84% to her and 16% to me well as ALL furniture to her. This despite the fact I renovated two houses and she worked only 2 years of an 18 year marriage.
If you young men are stupid enough to co-habit with a woman when you are seeing numbers like these you are idiots and deseve the arse-raping you are going to get. Period.
And as for western women. I have no respect for any western women who will not take an oath to serve on de jour juries to incarcerate women who commit crimes like kidnapping, perjury, theft and extortion against their husbands. I don’t give a shit how ’supportive’ women are and what they say. They are full of shit and hot air. I only care whether they will sit on a jury and if they find a woman guilty of a crime that they incarcerate her in exactly the same fashion as they would a man.
When western women do that I’ll start to listen to them. I’ll start to respect them. But until then? I WILL call them crap. I WILL call them children. I WILL called them ‘privilege princesses’ and I really don’t give a fuck if they are upset about it. I think I am pretty clear on that point.
the best advice my parents ever gave me was: DO NOT drink and drive and DO NOT get a girl pregnant or your life is in the ringer.
“so why would the state make no effort to inform potential husbands of the risks of marriage, if not from callous cynicism?”
It is part of the deliberate plan to abuse men so badly that they are driven away from women and children to make the women and children easier to kill when the cull comes. Can you say ’swine flu vaccine’? They want the worlds population down to 500M. How many times do I need to say that here before it starts to sink in? One you know this is the agenda everything else makes sense. I must admit it’s pretty hard to take that on board though.
“Unfortunately, the job is probably up to us”
Yes. It is. Every single one of us has the obligation to tell young men the perils of western women. When I was just in Australia I asked every young man who served me if he was married. If he said no I told him very briefly not to do it and why and to not take my word for it but do his own research and reading and talking to other divorced men to find out how bad it really was. Many of them said they had been hearing a lot of such comments lately.
I opened a bank account and a woman served me. She asked me if I was moving back to Australia. I told her “I would never live in this country again. It is a femnazi totalitarian communist dictatorship that oppresses and attacks men. I live in Germany where they know what a nazi looks like and they don’t want any of them back.” Well, the look on her face was really funny.
“It’d show how glaringly biased the law is.”
It is not a law, it is a statute and you are not obliged to consent to it. I no longer consent to nor recognise the legislation of any ‘country’. Why should I? They want to make me a slave and I don’t want to be a slave.
On my way back to my hometown driving south of Sydney I stopped at a diner for a bite to eat and a coffee. I had my bite to eat and went back for my coffee. It was real quiet in the diner. The woman asked me where I was from as my accent did not sound ‘local’. I explained I spent a lot of time traveling so I sounded a little different now. She asked my what I was doing so I actually gave her the short story about trying to get criminals called magistates jailed and I told her about how disgusted I was in Australian women who would not defend good husbands from vindictive wives.
One woman said “You are right, the laws are terribly biased towards the woman.”
The woman standing next to her said “Just remember not all women are like that!” with a big smile on her face in the hope of persuading me.
I just looked at her and said “Well, in fact I consider all you western women exactly like that. My ex committed the crimes of kidnapping, perjury, theft and extortion. What do you women do about it? Nothing. You women are disgraceful in that you will not hold other women accountable for their actions and subject to what would be considered the law of the land. I have no respect for you western women. I will not date a western women. I don’t even like associating with you. I am done with western women. I would never live in Australia again. It’s a crap country now. You want to do something about that? Sit on juries. Throw women like my ex in jail.”
I then took my cup of coffee and went and sat at my table. I spoke loud enough that all the women serving could hear me. The look on the face of the women in place was priceless. I loved it. They knew I was exactly right but they could barely even bring themselves to talk about it among themselves. They went back to their inane ‘wimmin chatter’.
Western women really are that crap today. You can shove the truth down their throats and they just won’t do anything. They are brain dead children wallowing in their ‘privileges’ that are about to end.
I did meet one young women the day I arrived. It was at the hotel restaurant and I was jet lagged out of my brain. She just asked casually what I was doing. I told her she didn’t want to know and wouldn’t be interested. She said try me. So I briefly told her my story. I told her I thought Australian women were crap because when a woman committed crimes like kidnapping, perjury, theft and extortion the other women would not do anything about it. She made out she was genuinely shocked. Claimed she had no idea such crimes would go unpunished. So I told her if she wanted to do something she could go the smh blogs and post there. I have not checked yet to see if she did.
Lady Raine December 8, 2009 at 9:14 am
Yep..there always has to be an idiot woman trying to make an argument who is brain dead and has no idea what the fuck is going on.
Welmer? There is no way in the wide world I am going to donate one cent to Spearhead while any of that money is going to support the opinion of brain dead bimbos like Lady Raines opinion spinning on a disk. No way dude.
Banish these bitches to the feministing echo chamber and let us get on with solving mens issues by throwing corrupt judges and magistrates in jail…and after that, let’s throw some corrupt politicians and bankers in jail as well. Once we start throwing these guys in jail we will provoke a reaction. it may be good and it may be bad. The reason there is no reaction yet is that they think we are powerless. Well, we are not. Not if we bother to learn the common law.
“This has a lot to do with why Italians were so shocked by Amanda Knox, who at one point boasted of doing a stranger in a train.”
Interestingly, today I sent a letter to the Australian PM and AG.
In it I included my understanding of the Geneva Conventions on warfare. My reading is that because all members of the Australian Law Society have actually taken an oath to a foreign power (the British Law Society) and they are collaborating in the onging genocide by protecting the politicians then those members are no longer ‘protected persons’ under the Geneva Conventions. Ergo, they may be lawfully assassinated.
The Australian Federal Government has declared a ‘war on fathers’. Well, if those fathers return that declaration I am of the firm belief they can lawfully assassinate any person who has take an oath to the Australian Law Society. I wonder what Kevin Rudd and Robert McClelland will make of that.
I also sent a lawful notice to say that if they do not immediately deal with the crimes of their employees Louise Henderson and David Dunkley then they too may be subject to charges of accessory after the fact for the common law crime of theft. This too would likely carry a term of incarceration.
I am very much of the opinion that should the guvment not take the direction of de jour courts and juries for incarceration of criminals like family law magistgrates and judges then the remaining remedy will be assassination. And the numbers are wwwaaaaayyyyyyy in our favour. There are very few judges and a lot of pissed off Dads. If done as a ‘declared war’ then those men who are caught must be accorded prisoner of war status. That is, they can kill as many members of the Australian Law Society as they like and are able to and must be released when hostilities cease. If it is a declared war then incarceration after the ceasing of hostilities is not legal under the Geneva Conventions.
I wonder how our colleagues in the Australian Law Society might feel about fathers actually declaring a war against them and prosecuting that war as a war?
@LR
So guys that get fired/layoff (something that happens a lot in this economy) and just cannot pay over 50% of their former income to their ex-wives have to become sterile to make you happy?
Really, you aren’t worth that much.
With the Red Pill analogy:
http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/09/game-is-red-pill.html
The males in here all came for a desire of knowing the truth. Of one way or another, we starterd to percieve that everything that we have been told about women and the Goverment is a lie. I do not want that others need to see and/or suffer unwilling Celibacy or a Divorce for being able to see the truth.
It needs males spreading the word, small stuff, day to day. Live as an example of manhood. And for the love of God, have a pair and tell those that you care about the things that they don’t want to hear. Make them realize that chivalry is dead, tell them when they are pedestalizing a slut, call people on their bullshit face-to-face, encourage them to search their happiness on their terms, not the terms of anybody else.
Tell those women that are part of your family, be it daughers or sisters or whatever, that if they don’t want to be called whores don’t do what whores do and don’t dress like them.
Live as an example to others to follow.
Fewer women getting married would tend to be a side effect of fewer men getting married. Fewer women wanting to get married is (I expect) largely a statistical artifact of women deciding that they want to delay marriage later and later, then suddenly realizing that they no longer have the reasonable capability to attract a mate and marry, and rationalize the result by convincing themselves that they never wanted to get married anyway.
Some of us have religious affiliation with the idea of marriage. Some of us are already stuck in marriages because we didn’t know that it was such a bad deal. Some of us are already on the far end at divorce and discovered that it is a bad deal the hard way. Any or all of these are reasons to care about the institution of marriage.
Not having children is a choice to be an evolutionary dead end; some of us rather believe that our genetics are a net plus for society.
Men “hav[ing] the same ‘birth control options’” is either a lie or your idea of a joke. Either partner can insist on condom usage. Either partner can engage in minimally effective method such as timing or pulling out. Either partner can get the tubes that carry the gametes to the site of conception cut and tied. But only one partner has access to a daily pill that prevents conception. Only one partner has access to a subcutaneous device that prevents conception for several months. Only one partner can get a fetus-killing device implanted at the site of conception.
Parity on the final choice is a hopeless pipe dream. But parity on the other two unevenly distributed choices is what is fervently desired, and what you are here mocking.
Here in the US, perhaps, although there is a stigma associated with doing so. In other Western countries, this is not so true; in Britain, for example, privacy policies require that the mother consent in order for the father to get a paternity test done.
Vasectomies are surgery, whether you consider them one or not. While they are only moderately invasive, their correct analog (tubal ligations, not abortion; vasectomy doesn’t help with an existing fetus, and has a similar risk of resulting in permanent infertility) is similar.
A list that does not exhaust all the female birth control options…and your last choice (unless it is shared by the woman, and the child is put up for adoption) is a guarantee for a decades long lien on your future income that can result in arrest and is not diminished (let alone wiped out) by bankruptcy.
Typically one receives some sort of continuing service in return for paying a cable or phone bill. Many fathers are expected to pay child support while the woman denies them basic visitation rights supposedly guaranteed to them.
In fact, child support can still be assessed under even those draconian circumstances, as in the case of the 13 year old referenced in the original article.
This is the essence of the marriage strike. I’m glad you are on-board with our decision.
This argument serves equally well to suggest that abortion should be illegal. Is that a position you really want to take?
You are made a victim by the social system that won’t grant you equal access to the kid in return for your financial support.
This proposal is not entirely nonsensical (if more than a bit totalitarian)…so long as any man who is proven NOT to be the child’s father doesn’t have to keep supporting the child (currently, once the “father” has made a substantive parenting contribution he is on the hook until the kid is 18).
Everything I’ve seen suggests that this is mostly done by the mothers.
Really? If a woman decides she doesn’t want the child after all, she has the options of abortion and putting the child up for adoption unilaterally before letting the father know that the kid exists…the latter doesn’t even involve writing a check.
Don’t worry. We are.
Many of us do. Overwhelmingly the system is designed so that we don’t or can’t win. To some extent this depresses the percentage who even bother trying.
If only saying this made it so.
Little effort is expended to make people aware of the risks, and a great deal of effort is expended to hide some of them.
Your advice here, however, is sound.
Your first sentence here has already been refuted. The latter sentence is accurate in a sense; but it doesn’t say anything about whether or not we should work to change the fine print.
I have no idea what this comparison is supposed to indicate, or how these we and they are supposed to be related.
Your argument here is typical of other postings you have made in its gross misrepresentation of our emotions, our positions, and to some extent, reality.
If you don’t like the “fine print” and do it anyway……you have no one to blame but yourselves. You’re worse than the Blacks that ask for “reparations”.
That is funny! Thanks for the laugh, LR.
So what changes to the family/marriage/divorce laws would you advocate, Welmer?
I personally think the legal strengthening of private marriage contracts would do the trick. Creating legal space for private marriage contracts would be a lot easier than overturning the entire edifice of no-fault marriage/divorce.
“The failure of the state to inform boys and young men about the dangers of marriage goes beyond neglect”
Gents, here is something else you were never taught about. Money. Why do you think it is that you can get a degree and spend 15-16 years being ‘educated’ yet not have one hour of education about how money really works. I just finished G Edward Griffins great book called ‘The Creature from Jekyll Island’ and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to know what is really going on. It is 600 pages but it is a great read.
We have a fiat money system in the west. And once you really know what that REALLY means the ‘control grid’ suddenly leaps out into the open. It would be worth a book review here.
More here for men who want to do something. http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/
I do have to throw my hat in the ring for Globalman over LR. It’s interesting, but even among the regular posters (excluding fly-by shamers and the like), there aren’t really what I’d consider to be any female posters to The Spearhead who contribute quality. Maybe Black & German, sometimes. But you’d think such a site would attract that 1% of women who agree with us and are actually outraged enough to speak up. But no. It attracts the urban hipster types who have little to add (but boy do they add it). It’s like most of them take some weird right turn that is only tangentially related to the topic at hand.
Here’s an idea. Why not implement a system that lets people vote on comment posts (and the topic themselves)? Thumbs up if they like/agree, thumbs down if they dislike/disagree. That way we don’t have to outright ban people, but people will know in advance what The Spearhead readers agree and disagree with. I’m sure the LRs of the world will have a lot of red thumbs down.
Justin December 8, 2009 at 10:01 am
“So what changes to the family/marriage/divorce laws would you advocate, Welmer?”
For men who are currently married what I now advocate is to rescind your consent to be subject to legislation. ‘Family Law ACT’ is a statute, not a law. You do not have to obey it. In the book I am preparing I am including the paperwork for men in Australia/Ireland to terminate the ‘marriage contract’ all the way back to the beginning as a fraudulent contract due to non-disclosure and variable terms and conditions. No contract is allowed to have variable terms and conditions. It must be fixed to be lawful under common law and UCC in fact.
I would also recommend to married men to get ALL their assets out of their country into another jurisdiction because the guvment, banks, and courts are all corrupt and co-operate but banks in other places, like Switzerland, are far less likely to co-operate than a local bank.
I also recommend getting a world passport. We are trying to get them more widely recognised. I have recently sent letters to Gordon Brown, Angela Merkel and Kevin Rudd noting the human rights violation I have suffered for refusal of their staff to honour my world passport and noted that the Nuremberg Trials set the clear precident that they would be held accountable for human rights violations.
If they do not provide lawful remedy I will be writing to Ban-ki-Moon (or however you write that) with charges for human rights violations against these three people and insist that action be taking inside 30 days. Let’s see how that goes.
For those men who then wish to remain married once all assets are split and your assets are safe from her you can write your own common law contract with whatever terms and conditions you can both agree to. It’s pretty simple to do. For men who are not married? Don’t do it under ANY circumstances. I’m not providing any remedy for men stupid enough to be getting married. I’m providing remedy for guys who, like me, married in another time when the legal system was vastly different. Contracts with variable terms and conditions are not lawful and do not need to be observed. This is very important.
Uhhh, you guys realize that you can’t have a “reproductive strike” right???
I feel like I’m in some other universe where the laws of science and reality no longer apply.
(For the record what I am about to say is not what “i’d like to happen” just an example of how stupid your “reproductive strike” idea is).
Women could essentially take men’s sperm, freeze it, keep it….whatever…
and completely wipe men off the face of the earth and STILL be able to have children through “natural” reproduction. Meaning sperm+egg=babies and not test-tube babies.
If women wanted to, they could ONLY keep a few men to make sure the sperm supply continued and NEVER AGAIN allow men to even exist…..you do realize that right?
Men have no power in the “reproductive” part of this power-play you are talking about because men could not turn around and do the opposite of what I just proposed.
Men could not continue the reproductive chain without resorting to test-tube babies and other weird Scientific methods. Women can.
One thing that will never change is that men cannot exist without women (literally) and still have “natural” birth and reproduction. They cannot just “take a part” of a woman’s body, save it, and wipe women off the earth without becoming a planet of Scientific Mutants.
Women can take a “part” of a man, eradicate him, and STILL continue to have normal 9 month pregnancies and “natural” births without ever seeing a man again.
Attempting to make some sort of “reproductive” power play with women is like shaking your fist at the sky for being blue. Good luck with that.
Lady Raine,
Perhaps you forget what it is like to be totally enamored with someone, to truely fall in love. To want to spend your life with someone. We all end up there at some point. You cannot honestly tell me that you did not ever want to get married, to spend your life with that special someone. The problem here is, life changes everything and so does marriage. The moment you sign your name on that government document, he/she whom is decided to be the bread earner will do so, forever with or without support. Let me explain. I wasn’t always in a shitty relationship with my ex-wife. In fact there were times where it was wonderful. However, we just grew apart, I changed, she changed, we just weren’t the same dumb kids we were when we married. Now, when we divorced, I realized what a vindictive money grubbing, emotionally and physically abusive person she really was. When I was married, I always hoped for the best no matter how shitty it was. There is always a pot of gold right? Anways, now I pay that bitch 45% of my take home pay. I do not get anything in return for that money, I cannot move on or have a new life until she moves on and traps someone else she can abuse.
The biggest problem is this, there is no agreement other than some bogus vows. Even crooked credit card companies tell you the shit they are gonna do to you in fine print. In marriage or divorce women get to make it up as they go. And pussy judges who break the law get rewarded with more work (to justify their existence) more employees (to increase their army).
So here is the real solution to our problem guys. It is the only way to change this shit.
Sleep with Judges spouses. Turn those ugly spouses into cheaters. Fuckem good and hard, make them say they love you, then bring it out in the open. Let them go through the hell they put us through. Then maybe they will change once they get a dose of their own medicine.
“Until male contraception comes, reproduction will still happen through so-called “accidents”.
Now there is RISUG: a male contraceptive that lasts ten years or more. Available in India.
Importing this drug is most likely illegal in Western coutries. That<s why anyone interested in "importing" those goods is sure to make a big bundle of money…
This contraceptive is absolutely safe and has been in existence for about twenty years now.
By all accounts, RISUG seems to me to be the very best alternative (beats vasectomy for health safety).
One more thing: RISUG will set you free for good and you don't even have to mention you are under that medication.
RISUG should become the PUA's favorite. Also acclaimed by Gamers.
Zeta December 8, 2009 at 10:12 am
“I’m sure the LRs of the world will have a lot of red thumbs down.”
All women are just attention whores…..even bad attention is better than no attention. Wasting mens time putting thumbs down against brainless idiot comments like LRs is a criminal act. Even having to scroll past is a criminal waste of mens time. I take the position they should be banished to the feministing echo chamber. Period. Women add no value to these conversations. They will not actually DO anything.
In my opinion the ‘entry price’ of a woman even being allowed to type here is a sworn affidavit that she will sit on one jury per year to try women for the crimes they commit against men. Any woman not willing to do that? Why should I listen to her?
Guys,
LR is a brain dead slut of an attention whore…stop talking to her. You are wasting your time.
gargod December 8, 2009 at 10:16 am
“Anways, now I pay that bitch 45% of my take home pay.”
Well, if you do not want to give her that ‘money’ why don’t you learn how to to rescind your consent and stop ‘paying’ it? If you are in the US you have no lawful obligation to pay alimony, child support or income tax. I’m really amazed how few men want to pull their finger out enough to even stop this level of robbery.
“One thing that will never change is that men cannot exist without women (literally) and still have “natural” birth and reproduction. They cannot just “take a part” of a woman’s body, save it, and wipe women off the earth without becoming a planet of Scientific Mutants.”
I would like to recommend that you read a bit more about genetics…
In less than ten years, neither men nor women will need the other. We will produce humans artificially. There is no way to stop Science. We won’t even have to produce unproductive females, since it will only require ONE male to produce an unlimited number of children, all engineered to perfection.
And good luck with dispatching men to their death.
Women have been producing defective children for too long: men can no longer afford to leave mankind’s future in the hands of incapable women.
I hope that one day you will understand that simple fact, “Lady” Rain?
If LR’s last post isn’t evidence to you all that she should be completely ignored from this point on, and not encouraged to post again by having her inanities replied to, I don’t know what will be.
Yep. Just ignore the troll guys. It worked at Roissy’s site, she’ll eventually get the hint.
You can’t prove the truth in an eco chamber and an entry price will just make women bypass it and them flaunt about it in our faces. Most males are reticent and lazy, free evidence of how fucked up are Feminazis and their White Knights is a good thing. Appeal to the silent watchers, they are more than you think.
LR has suggested the mass murder of men…. sort of offhandedly.
Before women can pull that one, you might want to take a look here, my dear…
http://www.vhemt.org/
This is much more likely to happen.
At least, we have a permanent solution here….
Really, you aren’t worth that much.
Make me “happy”? No, of course not. Here’s the main point you seem to be missing. The custodial parent (whether man or woman) does not have the luxury of saying “Well geez, I just got laid off so what am I supposed to do? Guess I’ll just let the kids starve until I have enough money to pay it back.”
Do they? NO. The custodial parent HAS to find a way to provide a home, electric, food, clothes, schooling, daycare (if applicable), and of course a college education. Does the parent who HAS custody have the luxury of “paying for those things later when they have the money”???
No.
That is what makes your argument for “sympathy” on that point completely idiotic.
If a mom/dad is “laid-off” her job is she allowed to stop feeding her kids until she finds a new one? Nope. The state would whisk those kids away from her and tell her “well it’s YOUR responsibility to feed them and if you cannot, then your rights as a parent are gone”.
Why should child support payees be any different? No, really. Answer that one for me.
Why don’t you ask the system that already treats them differently? If a parent paying child support becomes unable to pay, the children aren’t “whisked away by the state”. They can’t be; they’ve already been whisked away by the custodial parent. So, instead, the noncustodial parent is tossed into jail.
Custodial parents who hit on times so hard that they can no longer afford to feed their children have a responsible alternative–putting the children up for adoption. Non-custodial parents have no such alternative.
Your failure to reply to my earlier rebuttal on this thread, in favor of pursuing this tack, is particularly telling.
Many of you seem to mistakenly think that I am in agreement with “Alimony” and with ridiculous Child Support Payments. I do not support Alimony except in cases of things like “man and woman got married, they wanted kids, she stayed home to raise them so that he could work, then he runs off and leaves her when she’s old and the kids are grown” sort of situation.
Zeta–
“It worked at Roissy’s site…..”
Uh, where have you been? LOL, yeah see how well that worked for him….
Rebel–
My comment was meant to make a point not be literal. If men had to live in fear of “millions of Amandas” every day like we do, perhaps they’d be able to see how what started as “equal rights” (for women) in the way of Feminism…..has snowballed into what it is today.
As a citizen of the United States it’s my right to feel “reasonably protected” from rapists and murderers and criminals. (That is, after all the real meaning behind the “right to bear arms”.) Every American has the right to feel safe and women for a very long time CANNOT and DO NOT get that luxury that we are as humans should be able to at least “hope” for. What we have gotten is basically a solution for AFTER the problem has already occurred.
I am not stupid and am aware that women cry false-rape, go walking into dark alleys at midnight in a halter top and miniskirt and then act shocked when they get harassed….but that is not the “norm” for the way in which most rapes occur.
Imagine if women like Amanda were the “norm” like violent men/rapists are. You guys are all fired up about this ONE chick that violently attacks men and uses them and throws them away like trash to satisfy her selfish (sexual) needs…..
But then laugh at the plight of women who are in danger of the many many male “amandas” of this world. I am simply pointing out how very hypocritical and one-dimensional your view is.
Women may get “unfair advantages” AFTER a rape occurs, AFTER a child is born, AFTER a marriage certificate is signed…..but much like treating Cancer I think that most women just want preventative measures in the first place as opposed to “medicating” the event that has already happened.
Like I said before, you have no idea how much Feminism negatively affects women everyday as well.
Arbitrary–
I genuinely do not know which “question” you are referring to that I missed. I’d happily answer each and every question/accusation posed to me, but then I’d get bitched at for taking up the comments section.
I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t, here it seems.
Don’t feed the troll. It has come here because nobody in the Roissy website was paying attention to her. Just ignore her and she will disappear.
This is the human scum that hides behind the “Lady Raine” nick.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/inner-beauty/
A former prostitute with zero brains and a lot of resentment against men. Only crap.
Arbitrary–
So you are suggesting that if the custodial parent has raised the children for let’s say….10 years….and loses their job….they should put the children up for adoption?
There is no (sane) parent in the free world who would consider something like that.
I think you may have misunderstood me. I said that a “non paying” parent who is not in custody of the child often has the luxury of “not paying until they have the money”. Sure, eventually they get dragged into court and tossed in jail. They should be.
And if a CUSTODIAL parent suddenly loses their job or income, they don’t get to just not feed and clothe their kids until they have the money do they??? No, Social Services would REMOVE the children from them by force.
So what I am saying is if the custodial parent MUST provide for the child no matter WHAT “income-related” problems they run into (and they do)……why should the non-custodial parent who pays child support be any different?
Oh yeah. That was a “costume for the children”. Uh huh. Just next to the condom banana class.
“dontfeedthetroll”
Ummm, there’s no hiding. My name is Wendy Schwartz. Nice to meet you.
There is no anonymity that you are going to uncover and hurt me with.
And I haven’t “stopped posting at Roissy’s”. He has had me on permanent moderation from day one just like all the other female posters there (and still denies it). He is upset about my post and taking down his posts about me in a “peace offering”.
Sadly, that ship sailed for him long ago.
Wait, now I’m a hooker??? DAMN.
I should have WAY more money then I do, in that case!!!
It doesn’t take imagining, women like her are the norm – complete sociopaths. The way they choose to express their sociopathology varies from woman to woman, but it is summed up by the popular T-shirt, coffee mug, poster sentiment I have seen numerous women flouting –
“It’s all about ME! Deal with it!”
I don’t think I asked a specific question, but the quote you just supplied came from the rebuttal to which I refer.
If you don’t support alimony or the often ridiculous child support payment system, then why do you care if we come here and try to collect accounts of their many failings?
Similarly, why do you insist on projecting fear onto our reaction to Ms. Knox? We are not afraid of her, or her actions. We already know that millions of women like her exist; they just mostly don’t believe that they will succeed in committing the sort of murder with which Ms. Knox was linked; in order to make them continue to believe that (even in this corrupt system) we advocate taking appropriate actions of self-protection (in advance) and self-defense (during such an incident, should it happen to arise).
That you choose to be cowed by feminist propaganda about the supposed millions of murderers and rapists out to get you is not our fault; the fact that you seek legal protections from a social problem that mostly doesn’t exist is the only aspect that concerns us, because those legal protections hurt us directly regardless of our innocence or guilt.
sigh @ lady raine being here.
it’s like the mild headache that just won’t go away
That’s why, now, we’ve a generation of boys too scared to stand up to their girls – or even stand for anything.
You could forget about this emasculated group setting sail with Columbus or volunteering for the Alamo.
That’s why they stay inside, playing Wii
And what I am saying is that the custodial parent has options the non-custodial parent does not…to put the kid up for adoption if funds make it impossible to raise the child (regardless of how wrenching such a thing is emotionally, it is the responsible thing to do if you still don’t have employment once your personal savings are exhausted).
The custodial parent also has other choices; to reduce the level of luxuries in the entire family’s lifestyle during hard times, for example, in order to help make savings last longer…there is no system by which a non-custodial parent can make a smaller contribution temporarily during times of transition; the only states for a child support payor are fully paid, and in arrears (by n months, for some value of n).
We will produce humans artificially.
RIIIGHT! Because there is such a shortage of them and doing it the old fashioned way is so difficult, inefficient, and unpleasant. This reminds me of the announcement earlier this year about the creation of artificial human sperm, agains because there is such a shortage of the real thing available for free.
nice analogy LR, tell me… does the custodial parent go to jail if they can’t provide those things for the child. Even if they could provide some but not all? Why should custodial parents be any different? No really, answer that one for me.
My guess is that marriage is a moot point.
As Novaseeker has observed, among the moderately rich, $5-15 million annual income, marriage is a wealth-preserving partnership. Look at David Boreanaz, who had an affair while his wife (former Playboy centerfold Jaime Bergman) was pregnant, with Tiger Wood’s alleged one-of-many mistresses Rachel Uchitel. Bergman decided NOT to divorce Boreanaz in order to keep the family together (i.e. preserve the wealth). See also John Edwards, Eliot Spitzer, etc.
The truly rich like Paul McCartney simply cut a check and go on their way.
The working class like Lady Raine are single mothers. The talk of a reproductive strike is laughable, women PREFER to be SINGLE MOTHERS and will CHOOSE the sort of guy that Lady Raine chose: a bad boy in trouble with the law. Black and Hispanics have largely abandoned marriage for single motherhood: the Black rate is 90% in the urban core, and over 70% nationwide, while the Hispanic rate is over 50% (up from 17% in 1980).
What is interesting is the single motherhood rate for White Working and Middle Class women. In the former, over 40% according to Charles Murray (“the Bell Curve”). For the latter, over 20%. Increasingly, SWPL female authors such as Sandra Tsing Loh and Christina Nehring are advocating “passion” and serial flings instead of marriage, with “the kids will be allright” attitudes. The most important object being sexual fulfillment (with bad boys) of women.
So there is no point for a “marriage” or “reproductive” strike, since most women are hardly interested in the former, and in the latter, only bad boys need apply. Now of course, bad boys can come in the tattooed biker range, or the stranger on the train (Amanda Knox), or the Roissy type. It is probably best to simply develop whatever bad-boy aping skills (PUA in other words) a man can, pump-and-dump (which is what women want anyway absent a Tiger Woods) and deal with the sea-change in attitudes.
I would not be harsh on mothers. They came from a culture, a past world, now long gone, where women’s lusts and desires were denied, and it was assumed that women wanted stable providers in marriage. With women having their own income and stability, a stable, caring, dependable, faithful provider is the LAST THING THEY WANT.
Women want Tiger Woods. They’ll happily share him (Tiger likely had over 20 women during his marriage). If you are a young, attractive, professional athlete that earns nearly a billion dollars, then yes, women will want to marry you.
If you are Joe Average, they won’t even want to have sex with you unless you can convincingly pretend you are a bad boy. Much less marriage. Should you perfect the art of being a true, women-oriented a-hole, women will desire you as long as no one else with more a-hole game and status is around. Should Tiger Woods show up in the club or Waffle House, game over.
This huge change in female behavior is hard for women over 55 to understand, show them the Amanda Knox boast of doing a stranger on a train, and how common that is for young women, and they will still deny it. Because their world-view simply cannot accommodate it.
This article points to the single biggest action that our movement must take to succeed: educate young male college students!
Every social movement in this country always started on college campuses, and ours is no different!
Faced with the basic facts of family law, there is now way that many young men won’t join our cause. Once we have “male studies” in academia, we’ll be able to write proper research papers about the issues that men face today; then those papers will be used to influence the media and legislators, with an army of educated volunteers to raise awareness of our cause!
This is why the reproduction strike will require male contraception. Because when it is available, bad boys will use it and women will be severely restricted their chances of becoming single moms.
You have only one purpose in making your comments LR, and it has nothing to do with sharing your personal tastes.
You don’t like the subject under discussion, and you want to derail it. Inflammatory language and comments that lead in other directions are your standard tactic. That’s why completely ignoring you and not even reading your poison is the wisest response.
Whether you like it or not, educating young men on the hazards of marriage and the one-sided nature of marriage law is happening, and it’s happening right now. Not only are we here discussing it where any young man can read it, it’s being discussed in other places as well. A few months ago I recall a news article in which a father’s rights group was passing out pamphlets with this very same information to boys as they left their high school gates in a New Zealand city.
Quite a few of the posters here don’t seem to understand that despite women’s oft-stated (alleged) desire to get married, most of them don’t want to these days unless you provide them the romantic fantasy psycho-sexual male profile they’ve become addicted to.
Marriage-strike, reproductive-strike, etc., these will do nothing to change women’s attitudes. (And keep on waiting for male contraception to arrive. Don’t forget to have Job’s patience while you are at it.) If women had the natural inclination to do that, we wouldn’t have had the traditional/conservative order strictly implemented in so many societies. You can bet most of them will be more than glad for most men to get the heck out of their faces.
The gender battle is likely to be a long and arduous one. You wouldn’t bet on the possibility of any changes appearing any time soon. Given the reality of humanity — how slow most of its members are — those who get the message will not reach critical mass unless the indirect and latent socio-economic consequences of what’s happening now carves out such a huge chunk of the social fabric that, as social networks erode and the shit created by the long-term aggregate impact of feminism hits the fan, those consequences become direct and unmediated.
Going your own way, and making every effort to make feminism as solely the problem of women is the only strategy likely to achieve your ends. And the impact of that can only mature after decades.
I’m just sayin’ — as you guys say.
Pierced Head–
I’ve come to realize that what you gentlemen consider a “troll” is anyone who disagrees, answers a direct question, or posts their opinion without fear of retribution. Therefore, count me in!
As for the rest, I don’t see how I am trying to “derail” your discussion. Nor am I “flaming” considering that I don’t believe in marriage AT ALL.
The thing is, this post much like all the others here on this piss poor excuse for a spin-off of the book “The Fountainhead” is that you are “educating young men” on things about marriage that aren’t true.
There are very few states in the US who are unfairly skewed toward women. There are also plenty of states that don’t award Alimony at all. You are taking your personal bitterness and hatred for an ex-wife and telling young men (and women) that they shouldn’t get married because it’s a “scam of the feminists”??
I have not read even ONE rational bit of advice “given to men” here that are thinking about marriage. Basically you are telling young men that the Government is against them, the World is out to get them, and The Big Bad Wolf (Feminism) WANTS you to get married so they can trick you.
That is not “sound” advice nor it is anything close to the truth. You are no more “rational” than the shrieking Feminists and their S.C.U.M Manifesto and the whole “Feminist Utopia” theory.
It amazes me that the few (intelligent) guys here cannot see how completely ridiculous and blatantly hypocritical your rants are.
I’m certainly not an advocate for marriage. To me it’s a silly waste of a person’s time and goes against every bit of Anthropological Fact that we have (being that human beings were never meant to be monogamous and attempting to FORCE yourself to be monogamous for a long period of time is literally fighting AGAINST nature).
Don’t get all shitty with me and say I’m trying to “flame” if I were trying to flame I’d lie and say that Alimony is awesome and “just” and say that men should be drawn and quartered and have their entrails dragged behind them for missing a child support payment…..
I have said nothing “inflammatory” about Alimony OR Child Support. I have only stated that the advice you are supposedly offering young men as a warning is similar to the “feminist propaganda” being pounded into young ladies’ heads that “all men are bad, drooling, cocks-on-wheels”.
If you cannot see that you are projecting your OWN previous bitterness and bad experiences with women on ALL men about ALL women then you are no more “educated and lucid” than the Feminazi’s you hate so much.
@ Lady Raine
I’m not saying that you are a selfish and neglectful mother or anything, but shouldn’t you be spending all of these thousands of hours on something more important?
@Lady Flame-
“”"If you cannot see that you are projecting your OWN previous bitterness and bad experiences with women on ALL men about ALL women then you are no more “educated and lucid” than the Feminazi’s you hate so much.”"”
So you expect your hatred to successfully counter our hatred, which is just a direct response to the hatred feminism spews against men? When will the cycle end? Probably when you shut up. Or, when everyone is equally pissed off on both sides, men and women. When that happens, who do you think will win? Seriously, which pissed off side, whether right of wrong, will most likely win? Men or women? Which sex is superior at winning and conquering? Seriously, which side would you bet your 401k on? You are an idiot. Go drill press a sheet of aluminum.
Zombie–
Actually, since my job entails writing programs (on a computer obviously) I don’t even have to go into actual “work” if I don’t want to. When you program, the company allots whatever imaginary hours they “think” it might take to write a program (which is always waaaaaaaaayyyyyy more time than I need) and as long as the programs are done. I get paid to pretty much sit and dick around on the computer all day up in the Boss’s office because much like all Bosses…..
….They have no idea what my job entails, how long programming actually takes, or how much Machinists/Programmers dick them around for our payrates (that are usually pretty high).
Basically, I get paid for X amount of hours (usually about 10 per day) and usually have whatever programs done that they need in about 2 hours. The rest of the time I’m doing this…..dicking around, blogging, and spinning around in the Boss’s chair when I’m supposed to be working.
Sue me
Want to know the really sad part of Lady Raine’s anti-male attitudes?
She’s the single mother of a son.
Oh no! Men are angry! How dare they! What do they have to complain about?! We all know the patriarchy makes sure men get whatever they want! This must just be an excuse to suppress my female goddess side! They must envy my hard won female empowerment! They must want us to take…GASP!!..personal responsibility for our actions!! We must stop them! One women should do the trick! I know! Let’s send Lady Maim!! (I’m running out of words that rhyme, someone help me)
Wendy Schwartz/Lady Raine: ” The custodial parent HAS to find a way to provide a home, electric, food, clothes, schooling, daycare (if applicable), and of course a college education. Does the parent who HAS custody have the luxury of “paying for those things later when they have the money”???
No.
…
Don’t get all shitty with me and say I’m trying to “flame”…”
First off, you might be female, but you’re not a lady.
Secondly, your precious little rules only work so long as you have the means to exert both lethal violence and nonlethal coercion to force compliance.
Who is violent enough and coercive enough to get both of those prereqs? Do you have an all-female force, or will you require some men to coerce the other men?
Incidentally, your word choice is pathetically limited. Hire a ghost writer to avoid resorting to lower-class mumblings such as “getting all shitty.”
Heh. Fighting against nature is what allows women like you to bitch and rant on the Internet instead of a strawhouse to the other members of the harem. Don’t worry, we know that nature is against most males except those who rise at the top. That’s why we builded Civilization as a defiance againt it.
Gx1080 Rule #1: Fuck nature.
Collorary to Rule # 1: All hipsters that are all about being “green” and “everything against nature is bad” wouldn’t last one day in a jungle in the middle of nowhere.
What??? I have no hatred for men as a gender. I have hatred for lazy people who play victim. I see A LOT of those people here and it happens to be men. I also hate women who “cry rape”, suck men dry like vampires for their money (because it makes women look weak as a gender), and especially for acting like “having a career and raising kids at the same time is just too hard”. It’s not that hard. It makes all women look bad when hardcore Feminists talk nonsense, but it makes all men look bad when you act like the stereotype that Feminists have painted of you (drooling, sex-obsessed, chauvinists).
I’m not sure why you are even TALKING about a “winner” of Gender Wars. There is no such thing. One gender cannot “defeat” the other without BOTH teams losing. That is why I find you to be so irrational and ridiculous. This “gender war” only exists in the minds of bitter people who have had bad personal experiences with men/women.
Essentially you are ‘raging at the sky’ that women and men are different. No shit, dude. That’s enough to make you “angry”?
It would be the same as if because I had ONE abusive boyfriend in my life…..if I said ALL men are abusers just WAITING to abuse. That would be ridiculous, right? That is why I cannot wrap my mind around how you cannot see the hypocrisy and plain old silliness of your “war against women”.
There are plenty of honorable, respectful men of character in this world who have worked very hard to beat these stereotypes…..and men like YOU are the ones “defeating” them. Not Feminism.
*Furthermore, Jabher….it’s clear that you had a very selfish, self-absorbed mother who probably wasn’t very in touch with your needs….nor your father’s needs. Chances are that she wasn’t doing it intentionally and it’s all the more “enraging” when you cannot place the blame on her (because she didn’t realize she was this way). So now you have waged war against ALL women EVERYWHERE because you think somehow you’ll smite women as a gender in a misdirected attempt at “white-knighting” for your father. You feel he was the victim of “slavery” by a woman who didn’t really appreciate it. In your mind, all women are this way.*
You are too easy to read, too easy to figure out, and not at all a contender for me, Jabher…..please practice and come back a little later.
Arbitrary…excellent rebuttle…wow!
Lady Rain…OWNED!
GX–
I have no idea what you are referencing in saying “nature” is what allows women to talk and be on the internet, but I’ll assume you are trying to refer to the Animal Kingdom in which the “leader” role varies greatly between the male and female from species to species, so again….in “nature” sometimes men are the leaders….and sometimes the females are.
(Take Lions for example. The female lion does ALL of the hunting, killing of prey, providing for the pride, and MOST of the defense of the pride. The male lion is literally referred to by scientists as “an eyesore that lays around and brings danger to the pride”. I’m not joking on that one either.)
Furthermore G I think you know that in referencing “harems” and “strawhouses” you are referring to Middle Eastern Countries/Cultures and possibly Africans dancing around a fire???
I am a White Woman and a German. My people have never been enslaved and it’s not my gender that makes me superior to you, it’s everything ELSE about me.
daghezu–
A ghost writer??? Lol….unlike so many other losers….writing a blog is easy. You slap some shit down on your computer and post it. People come and read it. It’s ridiculously easy to get blog hits, subscribers, and commenters without actually even ENJOYING “writing”. I’m sure that there are plenty of bloggers who take it seriously and have some sort of desire to be a writer, an editor, etc….but it doesn’t interest me in the slightest. I love to read, I love Law, I love Engineering and Machining….but I have no interest in being a writer or a “professional blogger” because it just doesn’t serve my interests.
I cannot imagine why ANYONE would need other writers, ghostwriters, or anything else to have a successful blog. It’s not difficult to bang an article out and have huge hits on it. You simply have to use Psychology and Human Behavior to know exactly what draws people to you (your blog). It doesn’t take any skill to write a blog OR to get readers to follow it.
Just a little misdirection is all one needs.
Just shows how dumb you are.
Anthropologically speaking humans also evolved to be attracted to fatty food but I don’t see many people suggesting that you start eating without control. May be you already have & are one of the 300 lb hideous land whales among women.
Rape & murder are also part of nature. Jane Goodall has observed chimps going on a homicidal rampage against other troops, so guess we should embarce those things too?
stfu & stop embarassing yourself you retarded c*nt.
Anti-male?! I am far from anti-male. I am anti-whiny-cry-ass-entitled-blamers-of-everyone-but-yourselves.
I assure you that my son knows that crying and whining and blaming is unacceptable in my household. I do not believe in coddling children. I teach him that he must work to get what he wants in life and being “emotional” and a crybaby are the fastest ways to failure. I raise him (and my 3 nephews) to be a man like my father. A man who goes to work and busts his ass and never complains. A man who doesn’t HAVE to raise his voice and be intimidating because a real man doesn’t need to “intimidate” to get his point across. A man who knows it’s a man’s job to open doors and carry heavy stuff for women….and a man who will strike down upon anyone who dares to disrespect his wife. A man who put himself through Drexel on a full academic scholarship against all odds……..
I’d rather die than have my boy be one of these weak, whiny, crybaby men who refuse to do ANYTHING for themselves except show up (and then want a pat on the back for doing so).
This is hilarious, *LOL*
In the midst of it all, LR, our storm trooper for Team Woman still doesn’t “get it”
Once again, learn to read. I didn’t say nature alllowed anything, I said that going against nature was what allowed Civilization to be built, inventions to be made by males, like, oh, the Internet. So going against nature allowed women like you to be able to bitch and rant on the Internet.
And I said that, without males in defiance against nature, women would live in a strawhouse or in a cave or whatever, just being another one of the harem of the alpha male.
And we get to the crux of the matter. Women want to follow their hypergamous instincts, those being only have sex with the alpha males, the rest can die in a fire, without caring of the fact that was giving males a reason to be providers what allowed Western Civilization to be the superior, more technologically, politically and military advanced Empire of the planet.
Of course, women don’t “need” males that they despise for wanting to approach them with their inferior seed. They got Daddy Goverment to provide jobs, welfare and steal the hard earned money of the non-alpha males.
Never mind that is basically a communist dictatorship simply because so many power in the hands of a few will corrupt them, and it will be filled with a bloated bureocracy that impides it to be competitive in the International market (i.e actually allowing people to produce capital) and hence, going bankrupt just like Russia.
Or being conquered by Muslims. Whatever happens first.
Umm expatriate? Humans ALREADY embrace all those things like war, murder, and rape. Where the hell have you been?
As for the old “cunt” insult…..you really shouldn’t believe everything you read in Maxim magazine about girls. We don’t all hate the word cunt, think we’re fat, and worry about our age. Some of us are normal and understand that words are meaningless, self-esteem is mental, and age/death is inevitable.
And besides that…..”cunt” hardly describes me effectively. I’m much worse than that, sweetie.
LR, but it’s obvious that you suffer from the typical modern woman desire for for having your cake and eating it too, equality when it suits and special treatment when it doesn’t.
Poester99–
If there’s one thing I DO find insulting it’s being called a champion for women.
I hate women. I don’t fraternize with women. I hate emotions, romance, and affection. I was raised (properly) to understand that those things are a weakness in a man OR a woman. I have no desire to be a “voice” for women because most women are happy in their position playing “victim”.
I have never been a victim of anything in this world and never will be.
Right that’s why we are putting people in prison for doing those things.
All i read was “yap yap yap” in your reply after reading your very first line which shows that my assessment of you as a retarded cunt is true.
When you have finished living in your alternate reality then we can discuss things.
***Wow.
A hurricane of distraction in an age of attention deficit. Exactly why I do NOT allow comments from non-members on my site. The signal to noise ratio is about to hit the bottom of the Mariana Trench.
LOL, wasting your time interacting with the 1WF is tantamount to spinning round and round on the Hamster Wheel. Having fun yet?
Give them what they want already: turn your back, pack your bags and leave the “Woman’s Nation Plantation” behind.
I can’t begin to describe how effervescent life is without headaches like this one. Perhaps you’ll listen to me one day. ..
then again, perhaps you won’t.
GX–
While your first sentence was somewhat rational, the rest went into a crazy rant that was hard to even imagine happening in a movie.
In case you weren’t aware, “Welfare” is available to both men and women equally (as long as you’re the right color, that is) and has nothing to do with child support, alimony, or anything except actual income (at least here in the U.S. that is)
Saying that women “live off of men” by using something that a man who knew a man who knew a man invented is like saying “Well that’s not YOUR money, technically it’s your EMPLOYERS money that he is GIVING you.”
I don’t know where the hell you people live, but here in PA child support is based on both the man and the woman’s income. They take the woman’s income, then the man’s then decide what a fair percentage is. As for alimony…..there is no such thing in PA. I realize that states like CA and some other places are very different, but again you are essentially painting every woman (including myself) as these horrible harpies who live off of the government when a lot of us live in places where those options don’t even EXIST.
Basically, you are angry that I was born with a uterus.
I’m a single mom, yes…..but I don’t take child support of ANY kind and NEVER have. I have never been married (so obviously no Spousal Support) and I have don’t even QUALIFY for Welfare because I make too much money (therefore even if I wanted it, I couldn’t get it).
This “free ride for women” theory may exist in SOME states and SOME nations of the world, but it is hardly the “norm” and you trying to shriek and squeal and blame women as a whole for that is idiotic and ludicrous.
If men would have acted responsibly and paid for their children/cared for their children in the FIRST place, Child Support laws would have never been needed. When men were left “to their own devices” what happened? They cheated on their wives, beat them, created children out of adulterous relationships, and then left the women to care for the babies they created.
If those men didn’t exist and it were all a “scam” those laws would have never been needed in the first place.
I have yet to see even ONE MAN here admit that there ARE deadbeats, slimeballs, and adulterers who owe their ex wives a lot more than a few $$$ per month. These men exist, and it is THEY who are hurting ALL of you who DO take care of your kids, go to work, and support your spouses.
Unfortunately, the law doesn’t differentiate from a lifetime deadbeat and a dad who is “in some money trouble” right now. But the law doesn’t “differentiate” for ANYONE. It’s not like YOU are the only victims. There are plenty of women out there who WERE abused, who WERE left by adulterous husbands with a houseful of kids to raise and no money because “daddy took it all with him to buy his mistress a necklace” and worst of all the men who INTENTIONALLY have several “baby-mommas” proudly and STILL let the government pay for them (Welfare).
Men definitely DO get screwed by the law. So do women. So do children. That’s the way it works. Good people get screwed by the government/law and the “bad” people seem to just keep getting away with it……
So you want to join the “delusional” team and blame that on anything with a uterus? It doesn’t get more idiotic than that.
@Lady Raine
“I hate … affection. I was raised (properly) to understand that [it is] … a weakness in a … woman.”
Now I understand.
You’re no more conscious of your motives than a mother duck is when she is disturbed and pretends to be maimed, making a big noise of it heading in the opposite direction of her ducklings. Her purpose is to fool the intruder into thinking she is the easy game, and divert his attention away from her young. She is driven by a force beyond her will – instinct. Creating diversions comes much more naturally to females because of its obvious utility to raising children, not only to protect them from danger, but to protect herself from their single-mindedness. You’re creating a diversion now. The evidence is in the length and frequency of your posts in response to various commenters – way in excess of anyone else.
Pardon me for not replying to any more of your verbiage, but I didn’t bother reading past what I posted above. Feel free to return the favor, as I’m speaking more to everyone else than to you.
What to do with nuisances like Lady Raine raises an interesting point. Banning people who waste everyone’s time has a lot of problems with it, so maybe it’s a good idea to think of novel ways to deal with them. After all, sewerage and corpses are unpleasant problems so long as we insist on them as problems, but as soon as we think of them as resources, our attitude becomes more positive. Medical schools think of corpses as gifts from heaven, almost totally because of their unique value in educating others. How can trolls become resources?
One point that comes to mind is that by visiting our sites, whether they like it or not, they are being slowly marinated in MRM ideas and philosophy. Our thinking is forming in their minds. All good propagandists recognize the inherent value of repeated exposure.
Another obvious benefit is closer to the value of the corpse to the medical student. What happens if I poke there? If I cut this? With curiosity comes knowledge, and with knowledge comes strategy. Not only can we experiment on them, we can also learn from the tactics they use that work, if we are patient enough to dissect them.
For instance, I frequently read feminist trolls denouncing men who swear off marriage, and state that a feminist wife is an asset to a man. She’ll then go on to say she’s married to a wonderful man, they both have perfect careers and if there are any children they are loved and provided for better than any other. Of course it’s unverifiable, and why such women would be frequenting men’s rights sites remains conspicuous, but if women are prepared to lie about their own personal circumstances, why shouldn’t we? What’s to stop me from saying I have a perfect wife who has had 12 children by me, that she sees the evil of the growing nanny state, that she recognizes me as wiser than her, that we married with no more than a bible in our hands and have so far kept the birth of all of our children secret from any government agent (the kids are all brilliant, good-looking, popular with others and athletic as well)? Other men familiar with the site will know I’m bull-shitting, but a new troll on the scene won’t. Other men should recognize the tactic and chime in – ie they’re doing the same, or that they know me and are in awe at what a wonderful family life I have. If the troll does some digging and finds out from my earlier posts that I’m lying, I can just agree, then tell another bigger lie.All the men will be well entertained, and the troll waste her day reading through old posts looking for proof of contradiction.
There’s no reason why they can’t provide us with plenty of humor. By the way, Lady Raine, I have a Ph. D. in philosophy from one of the Ivy League colleges, so I know what I’m talking about.
And as a final note, as with all off topic meanderings, I shall end with a segue back on topic.
Educating boys and men about the danger presented by marriage is probably one of the finest things any of us could do, considering how reluctant anyone else is to stand up to the plate. Trolls could very well be ideal in that ongoing education.
**This is fecking ridiculous.
Now hear this:
I will partner with any Man here to create a video
product educating boys and men on the dangers of marriage.
YOU KEEP 100% of the profits. We can keep the price dirt
cheap, say $7 USD or so that even my 10 year old son in
grade school could afford it.
If you’re serious about helping boys and men, then I am too.
I’ll put my time and resources where my mouth is. We can get
it up and out in 7 days.
All you have to do is email me. I’ll work with as many men here
as it takes, with the various topics we have on the table.
Again, give it away if you like. You put your name on it.
I don’t care. I’m just tired of the fucking merry go round here.
It’s time to take action and stop the jaw jacking.
One woman holding some 10 or 12 guys at bay.
Ridiculous.
When you’re tired of playing tiddlywinks, email me.
Pierced Head–
In Philosophy? Wow, shocking that a long-winded guy like you who employs the very same “distraction” methods that you accuse me of should major in something that is based on “opinion” like Philosophy. I was hoping for something a little more impressive than that.
Do you really think that reverse-psychology 101 is going to work on me? Please.
I hope that you DO think I’m stupid, silly, vapid, and a troll. Do exactly what Roissy did. See how well that worked for him
He’s reduced to a begging, pleading, pile of “pussy-beta” because of little old me. He made the very same mistake and Roissy is FAR from a “stupid” man.
After all, look at the shrieking pile of rage you guys here have spewed out at me…..just because I batted you around like a ball of string. You have not only proved my point, but shown that you are easily manipulated as a whole by a “stupid troll” such as myself and really AREN’T the competition I was looking for.
When I say “shriek boys”….you say “how loud?”. You have proved it beautifully as a group.
Very disappointing yet again (much like bringing Roissy to his knees, it just wasn’t hard enough for me to feel pride in it.)
XOXO
LR
What’s you’re email address John?
***
My email address is: John@GoingGhost.com
Thanks for stepping up, piercedhead.
Any other astute men takers?
I’d like to hold a single group class at one time.
We have more than enough topics. I’ll even make a few myself.
No way one fucking WALDO can come in and battle
single-handedly all of these high IQ guys.
She accomplished exactly what she set out to do: DISTRACT FROM THE MISSION.
Well fuck that. If nothing else, I TAKE ACTION.
That’s why I live OUTSIDE the matrix and don’t deal with 1000lbs tylenol headaches like that one nor the Capn Save a Ho manginas.
Batter up, piercedhead.
Good job.
Who’s next?
LR=lunatic
You guys never learn.
Always feeding the trolls.
I’m in, John–I sent you an email.
Aww…and here I was having so much fun shooting what you wrote so full of holes that I could use it to strain pasta.
Feeling a sense of accomplishment for getting a response from MRAs when you come here with the sort of distorted drivel you have brought is like feeling a sense of accomplishment from calling an African American a nigger…in addition to being pointless and vindictive, it is a useful means to attack your further credibility.
Up until you said this, I was prepared to continue to dispassionately rip you apart, as I have thus far done. By admitting your motive you have removed mine–there is no point in trying to teach a troll to agree with you; they’ll just make other people hate you more if you do.
Lady Rain
“required by law to have a Vasectomy”
I guess its easier to castrate men than stop welfare payments or for women to close their legs.
Don’t feed the trolls, guys. She’s giving me a headache. Blah, blah, men are stupid, blah, blah, men are cunts, blah, blah, I hate everybody, blah, blah, men are stupid, blah, blah, my soul is a ball of ice, blah, blah. An unrepentant, never-married mother preaching to other people about character…. hypocrisy in action.
Anyway, back to the original topic:
Marriage is a terrible deal for guys unless they want to have children. If you want to have children and care about their welfare (unlike Fräulein Raine), then marriage is the only way to go. There’s just no getting around that fact. People have tried everything else and it’s all been a total flop. Even if you end up divorced, your children are still better off, on average, than if you had never married.
I agree that we need to fight for restricted divorce and fairer custody laws. That would be much better for the children, as well.
If you do want children, then you guys need to vet these women thoroughly and don’t sleep with them until you know if you want them to be the mother of your children. As soon as you “get sexy” your brain will fly out of the window and you’ll lose all objectivity.
Boo. And I was happily enjoying pointing out your bullshit. But, since that isn’t worthwhile since you are going to keep spewing it anyways, meh. Got better stuff to do.
@Black and German
Yeah…unless you go expat, most women have been brainwashed to GTFO and take your children out of you at the first sign of displeasure (read: betaness). So, the only way to keep a Western woman in the marriage is: Learn Game. Go and read Dave in Hawaii for that application of Game:
http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/
And, hate to say it, but the guys that lose their head for women that they fuck are the ones that are happy to fuck anything. You don’t see playas being nothing less that cold and merciless. Given the kind of woman that they fuck, I don’t blame them.
As a final point: Is not like having children at all is for everybody.
What a surprise…NOT.
Seriously, does anyone know how we could contact Susan Walsh’s son? Maybe we can straighten him out. Of course, he will be eternally pissed at his mom if we show him how things really are, but he would be better off.
What do you expect from the woman who says “women need to choose dads not cads”, but then claims this is all the fault of men?
No kidding.
I see that LR is taking a quick break from teaching her son to be another slave to the system.
You want to know part of the reason why we have so many soulless men in government making life hard for all of us? Because they were raised by women like LR.
I guarantee that when LR gets old enough she will want grandkids, and she will pressure her son to marry whatever whore comes around the corner.
Only when her son is paying alimony for a kid that isn’t his, will LR realize the mistake she has made.
Her son will disconnect from the Matrix someday, and he will be furious with all those that made him connect in the first place (that’s you LR).
I never said getting married and having children is for everybody. I’m just saying that if you want to have children, for whatever reason, marriage is the way to go. If you don’t want to have children, then you shouldn’t get married so the point is moot anyway.
TFH, women were never meant to be the stewards of civilization.
Don’t feed the troll
Communities are individuals living under common natural law rights of property and liberty.
The state (the cause of all these woes) is a supernatural entity (Egregore) with its own purpose and ends and it will crush anyone who gets in its way. It has placed itself above and beyond the law.That’s why men (natural guardians) are its natural enemy and women its natural ally ( for women wardship is a natural state).
The corporate state is a beast and for the prosperity of men it must fall.
LR is too stupid to realize the mistakes she’s making even then.
It is our duty to educate younger men about the risks involved in marriage. If each of us vows to help 100 other men, that would go a long way to toward’s solving the problem. I am willing to do so if everyone else will.
The whole divorce system was designed by upper middle class women to serve them. Notice how wealthy stay at home moms are compensated massively for their “struggle” of staying at home with their servants. If we take away these women’s “targets” they will change the laws. Their targets are young professional men like doctors, MBA’s and tech nerds. If we can warn these guys we can stop marriage for good. Once high status guys stop marrying, other guys will follow and women will have very few targets for the whole beta provider routine.
If we could just educate guys at the 20 top med schools and mba programs we could probably win this battle within five years. I’m willing to pass out pamplets at 5 schools if 3 other guys will get the other 15.
TFH, women were never meant to be the stewards of civilization.
I know. And again I applaud your fairness (although it is sad that such fairness is so rare in women that it warrants praise).
Feminists shriek about ‘misogyny’, but in reality, the reverse happens. Young men grow up being taught to put women on pedestals. They get screwed over. THEN they become angry.
So feminists are creating exactly what they THINK they are stamping out.
That is yet another feminism-Al-Qaeda parallel (of which there are many).
It is our duty to educate and raise awareness, I agree. But you have to realize that the receipt of our message will be limited. The reason for that is that even among educated men, and perhaps actually even more so among them, most men are very reluctant to receive the message that marriage is fundamentally broken, that the risks they are running personally are often disproportionate to any advantage received by them, of the reality of how divorce law actually works for men and so on. Most men are inclined to think: (1) it can’t be that bad, because if it was there would be more than a handful of angry divorced guys making a stink about it, (2) it won’t happen to them, because Cupcake isn’t a woman like that, I know her better than that, and this just isn’t going to happen to me, (3) you guys just seem to hate women, women don’t behave like you say they do, at least not most of them, and so on.
The reality is that the educated guys are in a better boat than the rest, of course. The divorce rates are low if they marry another educated woman (lower than 20%) and marriage rates in that group (dual high educated high earner) are high. The problem comes when a highly educated, high earning guy marries a SAHM or a woman who becomes a SAHM. That’s a recipe for disaster. I think, though, that many educated guys either know this or intuit it, because the number of such marriages is dwindling.
The real high risk for marriage disaster is among either (1) lopsided relationships where the non-working woman really can take the high earning husband to the cleaners for the rest of his life if she plays her cards right and (2) marriages between people who are less educated, which tend to end in divorce at much higher rates. Of course, these folks also marry at lower rates.
I think that the marriage puzzle is going to land in a place where marriage is most productive at the higher income levels, more of an elite institution that builds and protects wealth — which is what it was created to do, really. And the rest of the population will have a lot of relational instability.
Any idiot who claims that women are equally losing interest in marriage in the way men are, is ignorant.
Women thumb through bridal magazines, get depressed about not finding the right guy, and will even accept polygamy with an Alpha rather than be alone.
For starters, there are all sorts of men saying how marriage is a bad deal. There are no such women. In fact, even women reading The Spearhead insist that “Married man are the happiest and healthiest”, while pleading “Don’t you want companionship?”, stupidly thinking that companionship outside of marriage (Game) is not possible.
The claim that women are also losing interest in marriage is absurd.
Of course that’s true TFH. There are far fewer downsides for women in marriage today, and more upsides. Plus, despite feminism’s claim that women are like men in being naturally independent and so on, this is mostly bunk. Generally speaking, men are fine with being independent as long as they are getting access to sex. Women crave intimacy and relationships, however, and so are much less “fine” with being independent as long as they are having regular sex. There are exceptions to this among women, of course, but the exceptions are, of course, exceptional.
TFH, fidelity is hard for either sex. But it is advantageous for children, which is why it was created. Not everyone is willing to forgo having children. IMO, THIS is the reason why so many men are unwilling to give up marriage. I also considered not marrying but when I decided to become a mother, marriage was the only acceptable option.
The divorce rates are low if they marry another educated woman (lower than 20%) and marriage rates in that group (dual high educated high earner) are high. The problem comes when a highly educated, high earning guy marries a SAHM or a woman who becomes a SAHM.
You have said this multiple times but it puzzles me. The divorce rates for families with SAHM are lower than those with working moms, even in the upper income brackets. Or are you saying that the risk of being “taken to cleaners” in the event of divorce outweighs the lower divorce rate?
Also, SAHM’s are clustered at the very top (3%) and very bottom of the income brackets for an additional reason: those are the groups in which men work the most hours. The probability of SAHMing increases in a linear fashion to the number of hours worked by the husband.
This was something we took into account, as well. My husband doesn’t work much overtime, but he sometimes has to take business trips for weeks at a time and at short notice. And he’s often on call and has to be extremely flexible in his working hours. Having a SAHP greatly reduces the stress (especially on the children) of such chaotic working arrangements.
“”*Furthermore, Jabher….it’s clear that you had a very selfish, self-absorbed mother who probably wasn’t very in touch with your needs….nor your father’s needs. Chances are that she wasn’t doing it intentionally and it’s all the more “enraging” when you cannot place the blame on her (because she didn’t realize she was this way). So now you have waged war against ALL women EVERYWHERE because you think somehow you’ll smite women as a gender in a misdirected attempt at “white-knighting” for your father. You feel he was the victim of “slavery” by a woman who didn’t really appreciate it. In your mind, all women are this way.*”‘
You know why my mom divorced my dad, and me and my brother had to hear all about how mean and selfish men were our whole childhood? Because she listened to feminists. Thats why she was selfish. Feminism told her she deserved it, that it empowered her, that being a caring mother was a form of slavery. Where have I ever said women as a whole suck? I’m married for christs sakes, happily so. You project on me. And my father is a pussy beta, even if he is a swell guy. I blame both my parents for being less then optimal, but I target one group, and one group only for the psychological torture I experienced at the hands of a feminized education system, for growing up in a broken home with a man hating mother who divorced my dad for “no fault” of his own, for living in a slut culture saturated with messages of women’s moral superiority and men’s oafishness; FEMINISM! I’ve distinctly had a message here that not all women are our enemies. Take some time and read all my old posts since you have a job that you milk so well. I am/was the proverbial nice guy. It is genetic. I can’t help it. If you don’t think I have the right to be pissed off that my nice guy temperament got me shit on by women, you are dillusional. I wasn’t a pussy either. Rather the opposite. I took risks all the time. I put myself out there and got rejected constantly. I put other peoples interest before my own, because that is what I was taught was the noble, self sacrificing, manly thing to do, and for that, women saw me as weak, when it truth, that is the hard, difficult road to take. So fuck you. I’m a better person than you. My soul is more pure than yours, I guarantee it. I’m only pissed off and angry because you can only kick someone while their down so many times before they finally stand up for themselves. The irony is, the second I no longer gave a fuck about women, the second they started throwing there pussy at me. I’m a product of my environment. That environment was molded by feminists and bitter women like you.
“You are too easy to read, too easy to figure out, and not at all a contender for me, Jabher…..please practice and come back a little later.”
Stupid, stupid girl. I’m an open book. This place is like therapy for me. I’ve talked about the most intimate details of my life here. I don’t hide anything. Congrats that you think you can read me. If you would dig around you’d actually find a lot of juicy ammo to use against me, and I was really hoping for it, just to show everyone how much of a cold, heartless bitch you are.
And what is with your obbsession with us being lazy victims? Most everyone here has high status jobs, achieved lofty educational goals, and lived full lives. One of the reasons we’re so pissed is that we are the high achievers women overlook in order to screw and get impregnated by drunk players just so they could have their bastard children, but you wouldn’t know anything about that. We are here because we refuse to be victims anymore. We are doing the difficult thing and standing up to a an uncaring system that will mock us and degrade us for a long time before it will take us seriously. If anything we are self sacrificing heros. It’s like calling Jesus a pussy for allowing himself to be crucified.
“I’m not sure why you are even TALKING about a “winner” of Gender Wars. There is no such thing. One gender cannot “defeat” the other without BOTH teams losing.”
And here, you are just naive and plain wrong. Men with “game” defeat women on a daily basis. MGTOW defeat women on a daily basis. I defeat women on a daily basis. For all three of the above, women have no affect on our lives except how we allow them to affect it. The MRM will defeat women also. And when that happens, what ever you think will be less important than it already is, because then, no one will even bother to pretend to listen to the ravings of a women who thinks men who complain and show anger, are somehow weak, pathetic, and unmanly. You mock us for standing up for ourselves? You are truly evil, and not in the sociopathic sense, since you claim to feel guilt and remorse, but because you actively choose to ignore your guilt and remorse, as you think that would make you weak. You are obsessed with the strength men have, you envy it, you are jealous of it, but you poor imitation of it doesn’t do it justice. You have no idea what we are about. You refuse to even accept that our perspective isn’t insanity. You dismiss us at you and your sons on detrement. Have fun in hell. And by the way, you are ugly, and that does explain a lot. Be mad at God, or your ugly parents, not us.
Nova,
I suspect you are wrong about marriage among the wealthy in some ways, or at least, underinformed. From what I observe among the married men I work with:
- A surprising majority have pre-nups that were crafted with legal representation present / witnessing for both spouses, created specifically to be enforceable to the greatest degree possible (rather than back of the envelope contracts that stipulate all kinds of wild shit, which are the ones that routinely get thrown out in court).
- A similar large group (and larger among those 35 and under) are not married and, furthermore, have no intention of ever getting married. I am in this group myself.
- Many are religious (mostly Christian or Jewish, but with some exceptions), and their wives are as well.
- Several have admitted to making it clear to their partner that if they try to take them to the cleaners in a divorce, their partner will find the process… highly unpleasant, for either fight or flight reasons. The fact that a few have said that mean many more have done it but won’t talk about it, I suspect.
I think the issue is that, with highly educated, wealthy people (those not born into it, at least), you find they are usually pretty hard-assed motherfuckers (under the surface – many of my co-workers are extremely nice, loyal people until you try to fuck with them, and then the knives come out) who didn’t get there by being anyone’s fool.
So I think part of the reason for the lower divorce rates at the top revolve around the fact that marriages are probably better thought out in the first place…
*clears throat, speaks in a rather dry voice*
You know, I stopped reading the comments at about entry 40, because I just couldn’t process the anger, bitterness, and self-righteousness. I really couldn’t. If there’s anything good to be found amidst all that, I’m not sure it’s worth winnowing through all the womanish crying, pouting, and raging.
…Sorry, gonna call it like it is, because I recognize the same attitude in myself when I feel wronged. It pretty much only results in a habit Mr. P. refers to as “going to extremes” and “reacting, not thinking.” Very unattractive, in men OR women. Tends to lead to bigotry and misery.
And it’s on both sides of the argument. Please calm down, and let’s discuss like adults. This is a crisis; if we’re going to find a really workable solution, getting all emotional isn’t going to help.
*adjusts glasses and assumes a very businesslike posture*
Let’s analyze the situation first, find out what went wrong: some men got into bad marriages and got burned. Situation undesirable for everyone (even the flamethrowing harridans who did it, because they’ve hurt themselves, too). Mitigation is probably highly difficult to impossible, because marriage, being a partnership, requires equal and full investment, and it’s fair to say that many divorcing wives don’t want to invest.
So let’s talk about the possibility of avoiding such a bad situation.
Proposed solution #1: Just deal; there aren’t any other viable options. Nope, that’s what got us in this mess to begin with. Unacceptable, so we’ll discard it.
Proposed solution #2: Men, as a sex, give up on marriage. That’s a bit self-defeating. The argument is that men are “irrelevant” to women anyway, so why bother being involved? But the people making this argument quickly contradict themselves, by complaining that they are growing increasingly marginalized, and that females are gathering more and more power to force men into undesirable situations. A complete self-marginalization would only hasten the full enslavement of men (because feminists are deeply stubborn people, more apt to seek a government solution than to work out something “informally”), so this is also unacceptable.
…So the two extremes here aren’t going to serve. Status quo is bad, and going completely the opposite direction is counterproductive as well.
Proposition #3: Sperm banks only. It wouldn’t be long before women broke the “barrier” and got hold of your personal information by court order, and “for the chilllllldreeeeennnnn” put you exactly where you would have been had you done the deed yourself. It’s a reasonable prediction, if you regard it honestly. So no, again, not viable.
Proposition #4: Tomcatting for life. Need I explain again how you’d basically be “justifying” the feminist mantra that “men are pigs”? It does nothing for your position to fulfill their warped worldview, particularly if they start swinging the power of the State to deal with it. Every idealistic woman you burned, also, would become a bitter, rabid feminazi. The raging whores I’ve been unfortunately acquainted with also have an extremely low opinion of men. There’s no such thing as the man-adoring whore; they do it for their own pleasure, and they’re using you as much as you’re using them. Yet again, it perpetuates the atmosphere of misandry. Obviously not viable.
Proposition #5: Unless and until one finds a decent woman, don’t marry, and don’t have sex. This is a modified version of the proposed boycott; it carries all the major advantages of the basic idea, but also allows for when the ideal situation arises. Make a determination as to what qualities would be necessary in carrying forward a solid, permanent marriage, and seek those. And, obviously, do not AT ALL risk that you will tie yourself to another woman by having a child; if that means celibacy, I submit that it’s better than the current situation. (This is what I intend to teach my own children, both boys and girls. It’s a tried-and-true solution that works. We as a society just abandoned it in favor of “true love and hot sex”.)
…To be frank, it seems to me that most of you do still yearn for that Perfect Wife, but you’ve fallen into despair because your previous attempts not only went poorly, but blew up on you. Bitterness is understandable, but it won’t help; in fact, it can only make things worse–such as bringing you to illogical conclusions, such as “All women are evil” or “There’s no such thing as a logical woman” or other such feminist-pleasing drivel.
I say “pleasing” because, make no mistake, they WILL use the words you say to justify increasing your chains and burdens. In fact, you’re saying exactly what they’ve accused you of saying for generations. I don’t think you really believe it, but you’re letting anger drive you–and drive you straight into the box they put you in to get the power they have now!
Just think about it, please.
Note to above, and please read before commenting:
No doubt there are whole comments that lack the rage of others, but the comments around them are so terribly off-putting. No offense was intended toward the authors of the ones I had to bypass to avoid brain-clutter.
Actually, I think you inadvertently touched on part of the problem here. I never expected a “perfect” wife or marriage, and I doubt many other men here do/did. I just wanted a family and a modest life, and I was willing to accept imperfections. Most women, on the other hand, don’t seem to be able to accept imperfections. They want it all right now, and culture and the law indulges them. It’s part of the “you can do anything” message stuffed down people’s throats for the last forty years. Unfortunately, indulging female fantasies has to be paid for by someone, and the people who pay are generally men and children.
Mrs. Pilgrim,
Fraulein Raine’s just cluttering up the thread. There’s not usually this much vitriol, even among those disagreeing. And Jabherwockie keeps feeding the troll.
I agree with #5 (obviously), but I think we need to recognize that law-reform is an important component to make that goal more realistic. The problem is that #5 would require men to give up the short-term “shag a hot chick” goal. Don’t know if they’d be willing to do that.
Further on the topic of Welmer and Pilgrim…
Marriage is a stupid business decision for two kinds of parties – a higher earning spouse and a male; if we throw aside all the bullshit romanticism and evaluate this through some kind of reasonably neutral frame, we find:
1 – Either party can dissolve a marriage in most states (excepting, perhaps, New York, which still has at-fault divorce in some form) at will.
Ergo, marriage is a non-binding contract.
2 – Upon the dissolution of the contract, property and children will be distributed by a court, barring the existence of a valid pre-nup.
Ergo, marriage is an externally administrated trust should it dissolve. (Caveat: if you were smart enough to pay for two lawyers and write a legally sound pre-nup, this can change very quickly, but most people don’t do this the correct way and it leads to a lot of problems)
3 – Usually, this means the lesser earning partner gets more of the property and possibly long-term payments, and the greater earning partner gets less of the property and possibly pays long term.
Ergo, if you are the lesser earner, you have a call option on a bond, and a call option on your share of the property. If you are the greater earner, you’ve sold a call option on the bond and the spot property.
However, since you aren’t being paid anything up front for that optionality, we can see quickly that marriage is slanted highly in favor of whoever the lower earning spouse is.
4 – This ignores the criminal issues around how domestic violence is handled, which I will leave aside, as this varies significantly on a state by state and case by case basis, other than to say that you’d probably have to be a fool not to think you are going to get fucked over here if you are male and don’t have a very good lawyer.
( As an aside, if you wanted a contract from me that you could dissolve at will and I’d have to pay you when it dissolved, you would pay me an up-front premium to get that contract in most business situations equal to the net present value of that option for you… in other words, you want the positive end of the deal, pay up now. I, seemingly jokingly, suggested to an ex-girlfriend that I would be glad to marry her the moment she paid me the NPV of 50% of my future earnings over the next 30 years, to be place in an account held separate from marital assets and likely in an offshore account; she was not amused. Unfortunately for her, I was not actually joking. I dumped her after she claimed such an arrangement would be unfair; people show their true colors in strange ways at times.)
The conclusion is that marriage is pretty risky if you are male and/or the higher earning spouse, and doubly so if you are both. So my advice to men would be don’t get married, or if you do, don’t get married to someone who makes less than you (and quit your job before divorcing them so they have to support you in the “manner to which you have become accustomed”), and for the love of God, don’t get married without a pre-nup and legal representation for both partners when it was drafted.
Likewise, I would be very careful about moving between states; research the marriage and divorce laws there in detail, and either refuse to move or get divorced before you do.
The bottom line is that you can get all of the benefits of marriage without having to actually get married as a male, and ironically, you might well have better relationships at this point if you retain the ability to drop the financial hammer on your partner if they fuck up (as if you are not married, and you break up, you keep all your shit). Common law is less common than people think, and if you do even a hair of research, it should be trivial to avoid that trap.
Caveat: I am a US resident and citizen, and my comments only apply to the US. Your mileage may vary elsewhere.
From TFH: “Susan Walsh has a son, who is having difficulty in life. Yet, she still refuses to even consider that US divorce laws are unfair, and that feminism makes it very hard for the average man to score without Game. She insists that ‘all young men want to marry’. This is a woman with a Wharton MBA (albeit through Affirmative Action), no less. Women are just not capable of being the stewards of civilization.”
SW: I have never said that my son is having difficulty in life. What I said is that he is a beta male. Now, I fully understand what that term means in the Game community. Without belaboring the point, I will just say that I use the term differently, to describe men with less dominance and aggression in their nature. It’s a hard-wired set of characteristics, and the human male population does break down into the 80/20 ratio using this definition.
I do not refuse to consider that divorce laws are unfair. Divorce is a subject with which I have no personal experience. I have read your views on the topic, and I am not in a position to confirm or refute them with any kind of authority – they sound reasonable enough. However, that does not mean I share your view of relationships and marriage. I hope and expect that my son will have ample opportunities to achieve his goals. If he chooses a mate wisely, he should have every reason to expect a happy and successful marriage. I will be the first to acknowledge that I am a white, educated woman. The divorce rate in my own cohort is relatively low, as stated above. There are many reasons for that, it’s not just a question of wealth preservation. I do not feel it necessary or even desirable to sound the alarms and warn my son of the worst possible outcome. He’s a smart guy, he’ll figure it out. Not being a high-testosterone Alpha doesn’t render him dysfunctional. Please disabuse yourself of this notion. The notion that a good mother will warn her son to stay away from LTRs or marriage is both cynical and unrealistic.
I have openly acknowledged the effects of the Women’s Movement/Sex-Positive Feminism on the sexual marketplace repeatedly. It was a total game changer. Many of the consequences were unintended, as consequences of great social change always are. I understand the anger and dissatisfaction men feel, though I take issue with the degree of antipathy that is often expressed by you and others. I can’t imagine that you’d find many takers (outside this community) to confirm your notion that OJ Simpson was driven to murder by the injustices wrought by feminism.
We agree that it is harder than ever for the average man to score without what you call Game. I’ll define it as a self-confident way of approaching and interacting with women. My current blog post lays this out, and puts the responsibility squarely at the feet of women who choose to have casual sex with cads. That’s the conversation I’m having with my readers. However, the guys would do well to develop themselves enough to be attractive and appealing as partners. (Something that will be the topic of another blog post.)
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/12/08/hookinguprealities/douchebag-math-or-player-population-control/
I have never said that all young men want to marry. I have quoted from Rutgers’ National Marriage Project, which is summarized nicely in this article:
http://www.azcentral.com/families/articles/0623menandmarriage-ON.html
Over a thousand men were surveyed, with a little over half of those married. Of the single men, 22% were considered “hard core marriage avoiders.” The remainder intends to marry, though 53% of them said, “At this stage of my life I want fun and freedom.” (See hookup culture.) Finally, 94% of the marrieds said they were happier married than single.
Thems the facts. Just one study, but it’s typical, and the Marriage Project reports every year.
I wonder why you assume that I didn’t deserve admission to Wharton? Because the 80s were an era of affirmative action? I believe in a meritocracy, and I have earned everything I have achieved. I was highly qualified to be granted admission to Wharton based on my numbers and my work experience, and Wharton’s recognition of my achievements was shared by the admissions committees at Harvard, Columbia and the U. of Chicago. I also held my own easily during the two years I was there, and have in the 25 years since I graduated.
Mr. Horseman, what is your problem? Whatever it is, I didn’t cause it and I can’t solve it. You are one to call people out for shaming language. Seriously? Please refrain from characterizing my views inaccurately.
Pro Male Anti-Feminist Tech: “Susan Walsh has a son, who is having difficulty in life. What a surprise…NOT.”
SW: You’re a dick.
PMAFT: Seriously, does anyone know how we could contact Susan Walsh’s son? Maybe we can straighten him out. Of course, he will be eternally pissed at his mom if we show him how things really are, but he would be better off. What do you expect from the woman who says “women need to choose dads not cads”, but then claims this is all the fault of men?
SW: My current video post is about women making poor decisions! I encourage them to stop acting against their own best interests by having sex with cads. Are you into defending cads now? I didn’t say anything was the fault of men – I clearly state that men want to get laid and will do whatever is necessary to make that happen. Duh. Is this not what Game is all about?
The point is that women who want relationships need to “hook up smart” (btw, hooking up means anything from making out to intercourse) with guys who are worthy and capable of relating to women as more than cum dumpsters. I guess you’re not one of those guys, hence the attitude.
Will women stop telling me not to be angry. I have good reason. I’m not going to “man up” anymore, or suck it up. In my real life, I’ve barely raised my voice to my wife, except the few times I’m pretty sure she was just trying to make sure I wasn’t an emotionless robot, and she seemed happier afterwards when I did shout her down. Her other apparent shit tests are generally dealt with by using logic and using her own words against her. Past couple years she even stops herself halfway through questions like, “Do you want a more attractive wife?” and back tracks and apologises saying she knows that isn’t a fair or rational question. I express anger here, because this is a forum for debate, and debate without passion will be ignored. We’ve gone over this here before, several times, so to all you female lurkers too lazy to start at the beginning of this blog, go back and start from the beginning of the movie. It isn’t that long. You should be able to catch up. How would you like to express my justifiable anger? You want me to shoot up some aerobics class so you can use me as an example of how violent men are? Sorry. I won’t be your escape goat. Releasing anger here, a safe place for men and mens concerns, is the reasonable, responsible, and mature thing to do. So go sit on a fire ant hill and make sure not to tear up. You wouldn’t want to show any emotions, would you? Oh right. You’re a women. When you do it, its empowering.
Susan,
From an unbiased perspective (I don’t know you, and I honestly don’t really care if you have any history with PMAFT or 4H, as I don’t know either of them), some of what you are saying is observably false.
Let me give you some unbiased advice that may be of use:
1 – Do not trust surveys; people lie. I, myself, have been involved with deliberately subverting surveys to show what I wanted them to show, not what the actual truth was. This is common practice; most statistics are lies. I say this as someone with a graduate degree in mathematics (and an MBA from a similarly strong school, so welcome to the party).
2 – Marriage is a very dangerous financial obligation. IF your son gets married, and you do not advise him to get an iron-clad pre-nup with lawyers present for both parties, you are negligent in your parenting duties. This is not to say he should or should not, but if you don’t advise him to do it right, this is roughly equivalent to telling him buying a gun without knowing how to use it will “work out just fine, because love (of firearms) is all that matters”. I know if you went to Wharton and paid any attention at all you know how to do things like value options and DCF modeling of “business” cash flows (where, in this case, the business is his career and earnings). Do that for your son’s marriage after some research on divorce law, building in the divorce probabilities and outcomes (don’t cheat and think his will be better or worse than the average statistical trends, either).
I suspect you will find the results eye opening.
3 – Don’t succumb to the ad hominem fallacy. Simply because some of the people here behave like tools (as is true in almost all human groups that grow large enough) does not invalidate all of the conclusions. I’m often not onboard fully with the articles at the Spearhead (for a variety of reasons I will not explain in this post, as it’s off topic and then some), but with regard to divorce law and family court being rigged against men, the facts support the conclusion, though the methods in which they are expressed might not be ideal.
Enjoy.
“Fraulein Raine’s just cluttering up the thread. There’s not usually this much vitriol, even among those disagreeing. And Jabherwockie keeps feeding the troll.”
First, I only post from 9 to 5. Second, I have a personal vendetta against her and was first in line to deal with her, everyone else told me to let it drop, and then engaged her themselves. Third, if and when Welmer wants it to stop, he can block her or ask me to stop. So as much as I like you, stay the fuck out of my business please. I would have accomplished more on my own, as I knew she wouldn’t listen to logic and needed nothing more than constant dismissal and mocking. Other people actually tried to reason with her. I was going to make a game of it, but there was too many cooks in the kitchen, and now the stew is fucked. Welmer, start a thread for just me and Lady Stain to go at, and that should contain it and allow me to have my fun, block her, or ask me to stop engaging her. You know I have the utmost respect for you and many commentors here, and would gladly listen, but at this point I can’t back down or the bitch will think she won, so only take a direct order will stop me. Team player? Yes I am. Someone who quits? Read the posts about my life.
The thing is, Mrs. P., the system won’t be changed worth a damn until women really start to feel the burn of the current system. They don’t now, because of how the laws are biased against men in divorces. I think all of the options you’ve laid out, other than the first one, are reasonable approaches for individual men, with the goal being to increase the pressure on women. Yes, of course in the short to medium term they will react with more draconian laws, which will encourage yet more draconian approaches by men. Eventually the system needs to be broken and remade, and it won’t happen unless women are feeling a ton of pain from the current system. Men can help see to that, and I think it’s quite a good way to approach the problem.
That’s precisely what I am saying, B&G, yes. A rational risk assessment weighs both (1) the likelihood of an adverse outcome and (2) the potential downsides of an adverse outcome regardless of the likelihood. Some risks, for example, have a low likelihood of occurring, but if they do occur the impact is huge. The high earning man + SAHM scenario is like that — overall a lower risk of divorce, but of it does happen, the guy gets hammered for having agreed to that setup.
As a side note to the various problems Reinholt suggested with depending upon happiness surveys, there is the additional complication that our happiness estimation tends to go up as our ability to alter our decision after the fact goes down; in particular, this is likely to heavily bias married men’s estimation of whether or not they are happier married.
Mrs. Pilgrim,
This pretty much summed up what I thought while reading all the comments by Lady Raine and the others responding to her.
I mean while her views and opinions are usually met with disagreement here, I don’t see how that warrants the namecalling, especially the same old “slut, whore, hooker” insults. As for her tone, I don’t see how it’s any different than some of the tone from posters here.
And to be honest, I don’t see her as that much of a troll, if any at all. It’s more of her having a differing opinion and not understanding the issues from a male perspective. On the other hand, knowing what kind of board this is and the concerns/issues of members, perhaps she should have treaded carefully and not sound so….condescending right off the bat. When she first posted, the discussion was going fine, then when both sides felt attacked, that’s when the vitrol and clutter began.
But hey that’s just me.
—————————-
I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH! Daughters are always taught to be wary of boys and are constantly reminded that “they are only after one thing”, but it seems that boys are barely given any talk and are just left to their own devices.
Proposition #6: Socially Re-Engineering Society. Astute, well-educated, high net worth men expatriating and withdrawing from Entitlement Feminized societies and marrying traditional, non-feminist Foreign women. Forming traditional nuclear families and communities free of that nasty virus. Breeding feminism into oblivion. This is a triple threat as it denies resources and cuts off THREE parasites simultaneously: the State, the woman, and the industries the woman stimulates (weddings, housing, divorce lawyers, etc.).
VERY VIABLE. HAPPENING AS WE SPEAK.
David Brandt, you’ve got mail.
Renee-
You didn’t catch the beginning. Her inital 2 or 3 posts were pretty much ignored by me and everyone else, despite the negativity of them. I only acted when she called us pussies, which triggered me remembering some of her bullshit entitled comments from Roissy’s blog. She has never argued in good faith, and went out of her way to keep notching up the vitriol until I and others were forced to respond. She knows what the fuck she is doing in that sense. Don’t play fair arbitrator and paint both sides as being reasonable. I’m reasonable. I’m reasonably pissed.
In highschool my mom wrote a book titled “101 Reasons Why I Hate Men”. My dumb ass actually encouraged her to publish it, as I veiwed writing a book as an accomplishment in and of itself, and saw the potential market for it. Real shame. It probably would have been a best seller, as it was the mid- 90’s.
So tell me not to be angry. I’m sure I’ll listen. And men call each other names as a form of endearment and hierarchy establishment. We don’t all pretend to get along and then stab each other in the back like women do. So don’t enforce you gynocentric views here. This is a men’s blog. Have you ever seen a group of men who didn’t fuck with each other? It makes us better, stronger, and tougher. I personally will not be pussified. I will not play nice because the commotion disturbs the sensibilities of the women folk around here. Is someone gonna fucking back me up, or do I have to shovel all the fucking gravel today?!
Also, John:
Why not just put the video on YouTube? You can film things for peanuts with a digital camera nowadays.
Putting it up free and publicizing it widely, if there is any quality, is also likely to generate more in long-term revenue opportunities than actually attempting to sell it (a fact many people appear to miss, given how widespread you can market with the internet).
Speaking as a hard core capitalist, consider that.
@Jabherwockie,
Well, fine then. But she’s so annoying. And the thread’s really long now but there hasn’t been that much said about the original topic. Which is a shame, as it’s such an interesting one. Make it stop. Make the pain go away. LOL.
Novaseeker, what is your definition of a high-earning man?
Reinholt, the matter isn’t quite so simple as that. People trust advice roughly in proportion to what it costs (unless it comes from a source with which they’ve already established a relationship). If you give away free advice, people will tend to largely ignore it.
On the opposite hand, it’s very difficult to get people to pay for things over the internet, and asking for money for something often makes you appear to be greedy, even if the price is nominal.
Ultimately, the effort won’t catch on unless at least some of it is free, but it will carry more weight (and be a lot easier to produce more) if you can get people to pay for some of it.
I’m trying B&G. I really understand your perspective, but your request is better directed at Lady Blame. We are all bright around here. We should be able to skim past discussions we aren’t interested in. Hell, I love Globalman, but I skim his shit sometimes. I personally find staying on topic boring. I generally agree with the contributors, so showing up everday to blow smoke up their ass about how much I agree with them would get old also. I’m practicing for a fight that one day won’t be anonymous over the web. If we let people get away with shit here and now, how are we supposed to stand up to more connected, more rational, and powerful entities?
Like I said before, I’ll ignore her once we come to a consensus to, and we all stick to it, or Welmer tells me to stop.
B&G —
I guess for purposes of this risk, it depends on where you are living. In many places, simply six figures would be a risk. In larger metros, that isn’t that much money, but I’d expect it would still result in an adverse outcome. Not quite as adverse as it would be for the guys who are 500k+.
Arbitrary,
Agreed, but the right model to deal with this kind of thing, ironically, comes from dealing drugs…
“First hit is free”
Especially in the case where what people pay for is a more expansive / in-depth / different medium, etc. than what the free part is. Hook them, then monetize it, not the other way around.
Susan Walsh,
I have not characterized your views inaccurately (unless you have changed your view dramatically in the last 30 days).
But you cannot address the issue meaningfully (as Obsidian as pointed out), plus you put faith in bogus ’surveys’ that feminists create to dupe women (much like the myth that women earn 75% of what men earn for the same job).
Your consistent inability to see the basic changes that have happened since the last time you were in the dating market (1983) have been pointed out to you many times.
Then you missed most of the point.
We’ve been living through a remarkable social transition, which has left a debris field of broken families and damaged institutions miles wide in its wake. “Marriage” as a social institution has probably been damaged beyond repair and in 20 more years there will probably be little left which people who came of age before the 1990s would recognize.
I think the “provider” role for men is another casualty. The last vestiges of it are being desperately pursued by the family court system, but no police state which is not also a theocracy has ever been able to maintain the degree of social control which would be necessary to keep men trapped in that old provider role while at the same time allowing women to do whatever they want.
The most likely scenario for the immediate future will probably be usage and counter-usage as both sexes continue to try to get what they want out of the other while at the same time giving the minimum possible in return. It’s something of a relationship “arms race” which neither side can really win. Strategies for “Smart Hookups” will probably see-saw back and forth with each sex having a few months advantage from an innovation until the other sex comes up with a counter-measure.
Through it all I think you can expect to see relations between the sexes continue to degrade as both sides react to being used by members of the other with loss of trust and willingness to give another the chance to use them again. There will be a lot of “collateral damage” as members of both sexes who are not taking part in the cycle of usage and manipulation nonetheless find their pool of potential mates more and more polluted by the exploitation by other members of their own sex.
Regardless of what anyone reading this thread does, people are going to end up drawing their own conclusions from their own life experiences. Those who see working and relatively happy marriages around them will likely continue to believe in marriage and try it themselves. Those who see little besides carnage are unlikely to be convinced that they have much chance of their experience being different.
Through it all, you are going to hear more and more from men like the ones you refused to read here. The entire gender dialogue has been very one-sided for the past few decades as women’s subjective experiences suddenly got elevated to the most significant thing in the world, and men’s subjective experiences were denied, refuted, or simply dismissed as being due to “bitterness and anger.”
I realize that it is quite threatening to most women that their hegemony over the gender dialogue is about to end, but part of the reason for that is because they have worn out all their tools which have worked so well to silence men for so many years. As you have seen here, a large and growing number of men no longer care in the least what women think of them, and see women like Lady Raine and Amanda Knox as the prototypes for contemporary womanhood.
Survival amongst enemies requires a certain set of skills and attitudes which men are adopting. The choice of whether to adopt them or not is based on the individual man’s belief about which will insulate him best from loss. If he regards women as probable net losses, he will regard them as something he needs to protect himself from. If he regards a realtionship with a woman as a probable net gain form himself, he will likely take the risk while doing whatever he can to minimize that risk.
Where the eventual balance point will be reached as far as percentage of men who view women as a net loss versus net gain is anyone’s guess.
But, whatever that percentage is, unless the ratio is similar among women, and for every man who is just totally burned out on women there is a Lady Raine to offset him in the population, it is likely that a substantial number of people who might like to have mates will not end up finding one.
Susan Walsh,
I have never said that my son is having difficulty in life. What I said is that he is a beta male.
Which means he has difficulty dating, and will have trouble marrying a desirable woman.
If he chooses a mate wisely, he should have every reason to expect a happy and successful marriage.
Why should he be bearing all the risk, being totally at mercy of the whims of the woman.
You do realize that HE has to pay her even AFTER the marriage, even if SHE decides to divorce and HE does not want a divorce, and that 90% of divorces are initiated by women?
You don’t seem to care that he will be financially ruined or even imprisoned by a woman simply for not being ‘fun enough’. How can you be so uninterested in your son’s future, and even actively keeping the truth from his eyes while leading him into a life-ruining trap?
I wonder why you assume that I didn’t deserve admission to Wharton? Because the 80s were an era of affirmative action? I believe in a meritocracy, and I have earned everything I have achieved.
Yep. Top MBA programs were desperate for women then, and admitted women with far lower qualifications than men.
You should be angry at affirmative action for making everyone assume that you would not have gotten there if you had to compete with men on a level playing field. The push to make 50% of all Board of Directors women will have the same effect on the 15% who are there presently (on merit).
I have quoted from Rutgers’ National Marriage Project, which is summarized nicely in this article:
You believe a ridiculous feminist survey? No wonder you don’t get it. Also, you fail to distinguish between men who married 25 years ago, vs. those who refuse to marry today. As I tell you repeatedly, it is not 1983 anymore.
Not once, NOT ONCE, have you even admitted that US divorce laws are unfair to men. Why are you avoiding the elephant in the room?
You are not really qualified to discuss relationships without addressing the SINGLE BIGGEST REASON MEN AVOID MARRIAGE.
As a Wharton MBA, surely you must know that when the price of a good/service rises too high, the customer no longer is interested in purchase. That is why men (who manage to learn about the extreme anti-male bias of divorce laws) avoid marriage.
Actually you are both stupid because you don’t “pay alimony for a kid”, you pay child support. And second, if my son lives in Pennsylvania he won’t pay Alimony at all because WE DON’T HAVE ALIMONY IN PA.
However, I have no intention of allowing some skank to steal my son’s money that he worked hard for. I set an example myself (as a woman) for him by working for what we have and not “taking” it from a man or from the government, so I’d expect that he will be smart enough to not trust a woman who thinks “taking” is okay.
If he isn’t smart enough, its’ very simple. I’ll do what I do when a teenager harasses my older niece or nephew. I’ll pull said teenager/girl aside and pull a Rebecca DeMornay in “The Hand That Rocks The Cradle” and threaten to cut her fucking throat if she so much as LOOKS in my son’s general direction ever again.
I have kept bullies and other pieces of shit away from my teenaged niece and nephew (ie: walked my kids around the said bullies neighborhood and knocked on every door to personally threaten the parents of said bully) and would of course do the same (and much worse) for my son. I don’t play around. My son is perfect in my eyes and any woman/man/child who harms him would be subject to the most unholy wrath on earth, I assure you. When it comes to protecting my family…..I have no “morals” whatsoever.
@Jabherwockie: I’m all for taking a stand on principle. So I’ll skim.
Anyway, the fight isn’t very anonymous for me. Everything I do in my life speaks volumes and is constantly analyzed, criticized, and questioned by those around me. So, this is a conversation I’m having in real-time, too.
Why do I dress modestly?
Why am I married and not a career woman?
Why do I have kids?
Why do I attend church?
Why do I homeschool?
Why am I submissive to my husband?
Yup. I’m an all-round radical. And colored to boot.
@Novaseeker,
That explains our dichotomy. We’re in 5-figures here and I consider us well-off. But perhaps that just says something about my lack of materialism. Warm house? Check.
Nutritious food? Check.
Neat clothes? Check.
Adequate health care? Check.
Car that runs and that I can afford to tank up? Check?
Internet and telephone service? Check.
Get to stay home and teach my kids? Check.
Well, I’m good to go and living in luxury.
Goodness, I wouldn’t even know what to do with that much money. Repair the roof, maybe. My parents have that kind of money and they’re not living any better than I am. Except maybe that they have a spiffier TV, a faster car, and a bigger house.
Once you get past the middle-class lifestyle there aren’t many big improvements to be had, KWIM? It’s just newer, cooler versions of the same stuff.
Actually, Susan Walsh’s survey sort of proves my point :
Of the single men, 22% were considered “hard core marriage avoiders.”
As I said before, the institution of monogamous marriage requires at least 80% male participation. When it dips below that, ALL single women are in trouble, since 100 women are competing for 80 or fewer men, even while women age out of the market faster than men.
And even SW would agree, that 22% number is rising….
Arbitrary–
I don’t know at what point you “ripped me up” but you cannot rip someone up about things they are not guilty of.
So far you guys have been WAY off on simple things like why I am here. Ummm same reason everyone else blogs and comments. ENTERTAINMENT. Do you people really think that you’ll start some sort of “revolution” by talking shit like a bunch of old gossipy Jew-Women on the internet??
LOL in all seriousness, you can think I’m stupid all day (and that’s fine with me because most of you don’t even come close to intellectually matching me let alone surpassing me), but that doesn’t change the fact that you have been dead wrong on everything from my reason for being here……right down to “what kind of mother I am” and “what kind of son I am raising”.
My son knows that his money and his career will ALWAYS be his. I don’t believe in that hippie-liberal bullshit about children being “free to make their own choices” or “expressing themselves”. He is required to get nothing below an A in school (and thus far he and every one of my nephews and niece are straight-A students and are in “gifted” programs as well).
He is extremely intelligent and therefore I expect nothing but perfection regarding grades. Behavior is the same. My son answers “yes ma’am” and “yes sir” when speaking to an adult who is in a position of authority. He is punished severely for crying, whining, blaming, talking-back, or laziness.
I do not believe in Corporal Punishment (because children mimic what their parents do and if a parent “strikes” their child in anger, they are subsequently teaching their child to “strike out” physically when THEY are angry).
HOWEVER, I employ Military style punishments for all the children in my home. They talk back, they run laps around the house. Their grades slip, they sit in their bedrooms from the time they get home until bedtime everyday up until that “B” turns into an “A”.
There are no excuses or playing victim in my household and their never will be. I parent like a drill-sergeant. “You have to tear them down….to build them back up as men”. I believe very strongly in that and would commit murder, perjury, and anything else necessary to make sure my son is never the “victim” of a manipulative woman.
I expect him to grow into a man of knowledge, control, and respect. He will know his place in this world and accept what that place is until HE works to move ahead of that place.
In my mind the best thing to come out of Nazi Germany and The Holocaust was the sign that hung above the gates of Auschwitz: “Hard work shall set you free.”
So talk about ME all you want, but I am FAR from raising a weak, lazy, vampire on society because those sorts of people (whether male or female) make me absolutely sick.
You don’t seem to care that he will be financially ruined or even imprisoned by a woman simply for not being ‘fun enough’.
This is a real problem. I personally know a few women (upper-middle class women) who will tell you straight-up and without shame that they divorced their husbands because “he was boring”. Really. They see their men as entertainment.
HOWEVER, I must add that these women are just all-round jerks and I’m surprised that their former (and present, as they are all remarried) husbands didn’t see it coming before they married them. Why in the world do men marry women like that? And why would any man in his right mind marry a woman that had left her former husband?
A friend of mine remarried recently after a nasty divorce. She didn’t tell me until after the fact because she knew I’d tell her not to. She is an emotional nutcase now and not fit to be a wife. How’d she hoodwink some guy into doing that? They’re already having problems, surprise, surprise.
Jabherwochie,
Well damn…..
Well I highly doubt that this applies to Raine
True, but what does this have to do with what I said?
Anyway, I was actually being objective when I posted what I did. I wasn’t trying to enforce any gynocentric views. In fact, I don’t see how my views were gynocentric period. And no, you didn’t disturbed my “sensibilities” (whatever that means)
I know the Fraeulein didn’t just invoke the Nazis. Please tell me that I skimmed right past that.
Heh. So we are angry just for having a different opinion? Yeah right. We aren’t womyn that use feelings as arguments in a discussion, we do the math and the math says: If marriage allows a woman to take our sons and 50% or more of our income and throw us in jail if we refuse to pay by a Divorce Court, then marriage isn’t worth the risk.
I’m going to repeat this so there’s no misunderstandings:
Marriage isn’t worth the risk for males.
Until that changes, i’ll enjoy Friends with Benefits. And there’s nothing that anybody can do about it.
lol. You don’t seriously want to give your son that message, do you?
You may be candid, LR, but there is such a thing as “over the top.” Might want to work on subtlety a bit.
Gx1080,
Note how I keep pointing out that almost NONE of the women here (except B&G or Hestia) can see that the divorce laws are seen by men as unfair. ALL the men say the same thing every day, yet women aren’t smart enough to read the words right in front of them.
This includes Pilgrim and Susan Walsh, who is a Wharton MBA (albeit with AA).
I’m going to repeat this so there’s no misunderstandings:
They still won’t understand. Corner them and ask them point blank, and they still won’t understand.
Women just can’t comprehend cause and effect. It is stunning that that is the case, but it is.
Yes, B&G, but that’s very dependent on where you live. 5 figures in NYC wouldn’t have you checking that many items off of that list as a couple with children. It’s a lifestyle choice as much as it is anything else, and a large component of that is housing cost, which is very locality-dependent.
Maenner auf der linken Seite. Koffer hier lassen!
Yep, I saw it, too.
God, you are a horrible person. Have you listened to yourself? Children need some freedom to inspire them and develop their imaginations and interests. Really smart kids never made straight A’s. They always cruised by with B’s, because they knew grades don’t mean shit in the long run, they are just a sign of submissiveness to a feminized education system, a sign you’re a good little worker bee. I’m sure your son will make a good little corpoarate drone. You have the most basic, stereotyped view of life in the world. How can you even compare your intellect to mine or anyone else here. I’ve told you how my intellect is proven, and I didn’t go into details and awards and such. What have you done, got a job an average man would normally have, congrats, you’re as good as an average man. You’re still a shitty substitute for a father. Fathers don’t bust there sons balls like you do, except maybe actual military dads, and there sons, from what I’ve seen resent them and rebel against them. Come back and tell us all how it worked out in 7 or 8 years. You make me sick.
And going around the neighborhood acting like a psychotic bitch, I believe it, because thats the same MO you have here. I’m done. You are hopeless. Welmer, ban this bitch. She is a black hole, and she is proud of it. I was wrong. Mia culpa. She is a sociopath, and sociopaths don’t change. A jew makes a Nazi reference as being good? Hard work is for slaves. I’m a free man, like the other men here, and you claim your shackles make you strong, and our freedom makes us whiney and lazy. Sociopath. Sociopath. Sociopath.
That shall only be my only response to your posts from now on. One word:
SOCIOPATH.
Jabher– That’s probably the only on-point thing you have ever said about me. Except that I have no interest in digging up info on you. You are not my target, darling….sorry…..until posting here I don’t recall EVER having spoken to you or interacted with you.
Yes, I am cold and heartless. My father proudly tells people that “icewater runs in her veins just like her dear old dad”. He raised me as a son. He taught me to fix cars, he had “man-talks” with me like a son, he taught me to use my “feminine wiles” to manipulate anyone I needed to (to protect myself from being used or abused). He is the VP of an Electronics Engineering C0mpany (which is where my interest in Machining and Engineering came from)….he is good friends with Mayor Rendell…..he’s a somewhat public figure so he HAD to teach me how to manipulate anyone at anytime….I was a child in the public eye to some degree and can flip my personalities and emotions on and off like a switch. He taught me that and for those qualities I am eternally grateful to my dad. My father is my hero…..so I hope to mimic him in every single way I can. He and I always sort of….err….”disregarded” my mother because she’s literally like a half-witted Martha Stewart but without the intellect or drive. She’s “homemaker” with a penchant for reading the bible and talking nonsense. My sister and I always tried to ignore her as best as we could and treated her much like a child (because she has the mentality of one).
So my “cold, heartlessness” is a compliment to me….not an insult.
You mistakenly think that my cold, heartless soul is directed just toward men. It’s not. I am JUST as nasty, judgmental, and irritated by “Feminist” websites (meaning the hardcore Feminazi crap). I literally SEETHE with rage when a woman talks about her “hubbie” (the phrase makes me sick in itself) and how he “buys her this nice jewelry and a nice home, so he’s an okay guy”. I want to shake her and scream “What are you an invalid???? You cannot make your OWN money? Can’t buy your OWN jewelry? Make the rest of us women look bad? Look lazy, look helpless, look like victims????”
I feel absolutely NO sort of “kindred soul” connection with women as a gender. I laugh when I read men saying things about how “emotional” women are and I really thought it WAS just a stereotype, but upon meeting more and more women I realize that they really ARE that way (and emotions make me very uncomfortable, thus WOMEN make me very uncomfortable.) I don’t even go to Female Physicians because I think that they are unable to emotionally separate the “catty nastiness” that women have for OTHER women aside to properly treat me medically.
I do wonder what you are talking about when you say you have a “personal vendetta against Lady Raine” because honestly….I have no idea who you are and I don’t remember you from anywhere or any conversation, but if you say so….I’ll take your word for it.
“Anyway, I was actually being objective when I posted what I did. I wasn’t trying to enforce any gynocentric views. In fact, I don’t see how my views were gynocentric period. And no, you didn’t disturbed my “sensibilities” (whatever that means) ”
After the point of trying to paint Lady Vain as reasonable, I was talking more in generallities. I should have been more clear that the remainder of my rant wasn’t directed directly at you, more at females in general. But did you here LRs last post? She is far from reasonable, and trying to claim otherwise was my only point directly against you. Sorry for the confusion. Multi-tasking here. I like you Renee, not that that will matter much to you, but I’m just speaking honestly. I didn’t mean for you to get caught up in my shit storm, It was just triggered by the LR is fair stuff.
@Lady Raine-
Sociopath.
That should shorten the threadjacks some B&G. Sometimes concise is affective.
Jabher–
Grades mean everything. Not in the literal sense (meaning I’m aware an “F” student could be far more intelligent than an “A” student) nor do I believe in the validity of standardized tests or even IQ tests….BUT that doesn’t change the fact that in today’s world, you MUST have a college degree to succeed. It is not the same as when we were kids in the 80’s and having a degree was “helpful”. Now it is necessary if he wants to go to a good college and have a good (well paying) career.
Knowledge is the ultimate power in this world. Far more than money, sex, or love. You cannot gain knowledge without the BEST educational tools at your disposal. You CAN be just as intelligent as a guy with a PhD and not even graduate high school…..sure, but that doesn’t change the reality of the world. They want to see the credentials and employers don’t give a fuck whether you are a “nice person” or a “fast learner”. They care about the proper paperwork.
It’s not right. It’s not fair. But it’s reality and I have no intention of blowing sunshine up my son’s ass about life.
Freedom is not “laziness” Jabher.
Our forefathers would spit on you if they were able to. That much I can guarantee.
You want freedom? WORK for it. You want respect? WORK for it.
You are exhibit A of “entitlement complex”, Jabher and the sad part is that you really seem to NOT know any better.
Sociopath.
As a long-term, hard-core, marriage avoider I am in a pretty good position to answer that question – mind games and harassment –
“you’re just looking for the perfect wife”
“you insensitive brute! How dare you not give her what she wants/needs!?”
“Don’t knock it until you have tried it!”
“You’re going to die alone, lonely, and bitter.”
Yadda, yadda, yadda. I’m sure lots of men here can add to this list.
A decade or two back, at least, “dating” amounted to getting on a train whose destination was known – marriage. I’m not sure what things are like today because I quit dating American women over 15 years ago. But, back then and before if you started a “relationship” with a woman it was everyone’s expectation, particularly hers, that it would “go somewhere” – and that “somewhere” was always the altar. It wasn’t allowed to enjoy a woman’s company, or perhaps even “intimacy” with her, unless a man intended to “make an honest woman of her.”
That created a difficult paradox. Continuing any sort of relationship with a woman inevitably got cast as doing so under “false pretenses”, because the cultural expectations (and hers) were that she was dating a man in order to marry him. Simply by continuing to date her a man was giving the message that they were headed for marriage sooner or later. One way women forced the issue to make it sooner was with the “Marry me or I will go find someone who will” ultimatum. Put in a forced choice situation of ending the relationship or getting married, a lot of men would wimp out and cave in to the demand for marriage.
Now, I’m sure there will be people who jump in here with the lame suggestion “well, just date women who don’t want to get married.” I don’t know where such women hide, but I have met very few of them in my life. Many women will claim that up front, but I think some of that is due to the mating situation and the knowledge that making their intentions clear will cause a lot of men to hit the road if they tip their hands too soon before an emotional bond has formed which the man might not want to lose.
So, that may not the reason for all marriages to women who are “like that”, but it was a fairly common experience among men of my generation.
Jabherwockie, one is ill-advised to continue to feed a troll after they tell you their intentions; no good can come of it.
If a poster is here purely for an emotional fix, and not serious and meaningful debate, there is little be gained by supplying that fix; rather one would be well advised to behave as if such a person does not exist.
I’ve adjusted my strategy already Arbitrary. Only reason I didn’t earlier is no one else was, so I didn’t feel obliged.
***
The vids will be as varied as the topics, although we’ll take a cookie cutter approach and they’ll be easily recognizable. Each man is free to distribute as he so chooses. I’m simply facilitating the thing with the schema, tech and marketing aspects.
***
Preaching to the choir, brother. Although from my experience, low-ticket lead magnets/self-liquidating offers, etc. tend to get more serious consumers willing to TAKE ACTION on what they learn. Whereas freebie seekers often times view the content like comic book entertainment with the “meh” factor–mainly because they have no vested interest.
However, we’re on the same page. So where’s that email from you Reinholt? We got a lot of gravel to shovel…
Novaseeker,
And then Hitler built the Autobahn. Uh, huh. Sort of like her, “I’m not black so I don’t listen to gangsta rap,” mess.
I purposefully moved out to the Maryland backwoods so that we could afford a small house and a short commute on a single, medium-sized salary. We could get by on half of that if we needed to. We originally wanted to move closer to my parents but down there comparable houses were going for over $400k. With homeschooling, the school-catchment-area method is also unnecessary.
It’s all about the choices we make and the expectations we have. People are happy if their situation meets or exceeds their expectations.
If I divorced my husband, all I’d get would be increased poverty, day orphanages for my children, and half of a mortgage. I’ll only ever be wealthy by sticking with him. Or winning the lottery, but then I don’t play it.
Not to mention the fact that I don’t believe in divorce anyway. The whole concept is a farce and does not exist for me.
Oh dear.
Mr. Nada: That’s an interesting proposition, but it appears only to apply to a very small portion of the population. What do you have to offer the non-wealthy young men who never stand to have “high net worth”? Solitude eternal? What you propose could potentially spur more women to realize that feminism is idiocy, but then again, it could also spur more “We must free the women!” wars in foreign countries. So yes, possible solution, but only a partial one.
Mr. Wochie (may I call you Jabher?): I wasn’t necessarily referring to your annoyance at LR. I was referring to “All women are evil subhuman monsters and suitable only for being the objects of my pleasure,” that kind of attitude. Sometimes, it seems to crop up here among certain males, and if taken at face value, it tends to indicate bigotry. In the case of its being mere venting, I would propose that no place on the Internet is truly safe, unless it’s encrypted, secured, and password-protected–and even then, you can’t be 100% sure. From a professional perspective, I submit that the last thing you want to do is give the feminazis ammo. (As far as anthills, those don’t usually make me tear up–not after giving birth without anesthesia, anyway. Now, show me the opening scene of the recent Star Trek film, and it’s all waterworks…)
Mr. Zed: There’s a reason why I qualified the descriptors. I don’t claim to know hearts. *smile*
As to “perfect wife”–I meant “suitable”. Words can fail when your kids are having a food fight.
And finally, I would dearly love to see family law revised heavily to be a tool of true justice; the law is supposed to be in place to catch when things go catastrophically wrong, and to penalize if penalty is truly merited. I agree: As it stands, it’s mostly in place to force people into pre-determined, sexist outcomes. Not acceptable.
Also, Mr. Zed: I don’t know where in the U.S. you were dating, but I never encountered the attitude that dating or even sex leads to marriage like night into day. The usual specimen was one of complete dissociation between lust and commitment (and a sense of entitlement on the part of my own unsuccessful suitors, but that’s another story).
Oh. Our bad. Obviously “perfect” and “suitable” are used as synonyms all the time.
You’re joking, right? Ever heard of the term “Palimony”? Are you aware of any of the recent cases of girlfriends suing men because they got used to beging supported?
But, like I said, I’m basing my perceptions on experiences from 15-30 years ago. I quit dating American women more than 15 years ago.
I have more pies than I have fingers currently, John.
I prefer to be less visible, perhaps, for a variety of reasons… but not everything that is valuable should happen in plain sight.
Wow. She’s still here?
Fellas, remember what I said earlier? If LR’s last post isn’t evidence to you all that she should be completely ignored from this point on, and not encouraged to post again by having her inanities replied to, I don’t know what will be?
Perhaps Arbeit macht frei will do the trick?
Interestingly, and on that subject, I’ve just started reading Man’s Search for Meaning.
Mr. Zed: First, I acknowledged that I used the wrong word, and pled Presence of Unruly Toddlers as a defense. We were having such a good dialogue the other day; don’t let’s spoil the goodwill by being unpleasant.
Second: Now that you remind me of that legal disaster of “palimony”, I can see how that would have had an effect on your experience. Seriously, changing from a binary married-or-not variety of family law to the current strain has resulted in so much stupidity…
But in any event, apparently much of the expectation of marriage is gone in recent years, given that so many of the young fellows I dealt with were not merely shocked but seemed mortally insulted that I wouldn’t give them a test drive, so to speak. I wouldn’t expect that repeated rejections or an imposed expectation as a result would permit of such a reaction on their part.
Then again, I tend to forget that I’m speaking of young Americans, who are seldom rational. *shrug*
You already have, Mrs. P.
I know, and that in reference to raising kids. It’s actually kind of hard not to read it as a parody.
“Kinder, KOMM! Macht schnell! I vill tattoo zee arms, und zen you vill clean up zee rooms. RAUS!”
Perhaps a little homework on your part might be in order before you shove your foot any further down your throat.
To get a snapshot of the stupidity, I would suggest a look at –
http://mgtow.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general
There is a pretty good catalogue of it documented there.
***
Hmmm, it’s a zero-sum game. No less and no more than currently undertake international travel and romance right now. And with leverage and seriousness of purpose, we will affect things in a big way with just “a few good men”.
***
In all seriousness, have you paid attention at all to the conversations here? Look around.They have 2 other fantastic doors to choose from: Celibacy and Game. Besides, following those 2 methods they’ll preserve enough wealth to expat eventually should they so choose. LOL
Why, the inspiration to become “high net worth” of course.
***
We care not if 1st World Females realize that feminism is idiocy. Our minds are made up. We’ve turned our backs and packed our bags; heard them loud and clear. Now we will give them all that they demand–so that they may choke on it.
***
Possible, but that is why our small contingent has decided to take the fight to them. We have the leverage of “Cultural Lag” on our side and we have seriousness of purpose.
But none of that matters. We will treat you as you have treated us: with indifference and casual disinterest. We’ll starve your system of resources, preserve our wealth, form families, rebuild societies, relish in our freedom and let feminist women die childless.
The war is already over…
and you don’t even know it.
We’ve turned our backs and packed our bags; heard them loud and clear.
And cleared the way for Islam (he he).
First, I acknowledged that I used the wrong word, and pled Presence of Unruly Toddlers as a defense.
That is a valid defense, guys. You all have the debating upper-hand. We are writing with a severe handicap.
Can’t be that severe, otherwise I don’t know how I could have remained coherent all this time with my own toddlers around and not a soul to help me out with them.
Darn, one of those darn custodial fathers ruining our excuse…
It’s a changing world, isn’t it?
To be honest, I can’t do much serious writing when the kids are here and awake — you just can’t focus for more than 10 minutes or so before some trouble erupts in the house. Mostly, I do it in the morning before they get up when I have them. However, I can handle commenting.
Like being bored married women dilettantes hanging out here among relatively civilized men because you don’t have the courage to go places like feministing and do anything substantive about the issues?
We’ve really had a belly full of your type. Nothing is going to get any better until the issues we discuss here begin to get addressed at the cultural level. Whether or not you agree with the way things are, you are doing nothing about them, so your admonishments to the men who are, do little besides annoy us.
Can’t be that severe, otherwise I don’t know how I could have remained coherent all this time with my own toddlers around and not a soul to help me out with them.
Well said, Welmer, and sentiments I would have to second. I managed to be quite coherent even during my year of “single motherhood” that ended a few months ago and beyond.
BTW, Welmer, can I just say I have immense respect for you and other single fathers. When my husband was deployed, there were many times I wasn’t sure how I was going to manage and sometimes now I look back and wonder how I did it successfully. I better remember soon as doing so will surely be in my future again. Being the main or sole caretaker of young children is a momentous task, especially when somebody gives everything they have to do the best job possible. How do do it with two energetic little ones isn’t something I can begin to imagine!
Proposition #6 is a winner. That’s happening already and will get much larger. Most of the successful guys I know in their 30’s who get married are marrying foreign women. Their marriages are MUCH better than the fools who marry American women.
Zed,
Why do you assume that I’m not doing anything concrete? That is pure presumption on your part. And why do you think debating feminists is going to change anything? I’ve found it to be a big colossal waste of time. It’s better to work to change the laws than to debate people who live on a different planet.
I’m doing something concrete, obviously, because I vote and am living according to my word and raising the next generation in accordance with my beliefs. Even if I do nothing else, I have already accomplished a lot with that one act.
And I’m hardly bored. Hmm… what did I do today? I spent 2 hours at a speech therapy training session, baked 4 batches of cookies, prepared the dough for tomorrow’s baking, washed and changed all of the bedsheets and blankets, played with my kids (goes without saying), dropped my son off at preschool and picked him up, cooked and served lunch (my husband is home everyday for all 3 meals), cooked and served dinner, washed the dishes, bathed my children and put them to bed. And now I’m going to go design and print our Christmas photo calendars and cards so that I can mail them off tomorrow.
And what did you do today? But, oh I forgot, nothing I do is of any consequence because nobody pays me to do it and I shouldn’t have any free time because that means I’m neglecting my duties as resident house-elf. Silly me.
I was definitely the main caretaker for about a year there. Now, their grandmother might have an edge on me in terms of hours (their mom never really took a shining to taking care of the kids). It was brutal due to the situation. I was taken advantage of because they knew that I’d take any time I could get with the kids, so I ended up caring for them while their mother worked, and I was still ordered to pay child support. I don’t know how I did it, but when you really love your kids you make do somehow. The really fucked up thing about it is that people don’t have nearly the sympathy for single dads, so I was all alone in a way that I don’t think single mothers really understand. There’s a single mom across the street from me, and she always has people coming over and lending a hand. With me, I was just this big, desperate guy with a couple little babies that were all I had, getting a steady drumbeat of accusations and threats thrown at me from my ex and her attorney, and there were guns backing up these threats, believe me. I’ve tried not to bring in my own personal experiences too much to avoid the risk of contaminating the message, but it was a pretty awful situation, and I’ll probably look back on surviving it as a sort of trial by fire.
I have never said anything of the sort, B&G, so that comment is equally presumption on your part.
There are some fundamental differences in communication styles between men and women which make the things women say often come off as extremely obnoxious even when they don’t intend it that way. Generally all you will get on a man’s board is a gruff comeback, but if you cross a woman on a board like feministing they will go for your throat.
Your circumstances put you in a position where it would be nearly impossible to understand the issues from the perspective of having experienced what we are talking about. Thus your pontifications come off as being
a ) based in complete ignorance of the situation, and
b ) as being self-serving on behalf of “Team Woman.”
I’m more tactful than Arthur, but I have a whole lot more in common with the way he sees things than the way you see things.
If nothing else, hopefully women like you and Mrs. P will look at the example of guys like Arthur and me and when you get tempted to indulge in some estrogen psychosis toward your husband think twice about tempering that because your likelihood of finding replacement husbands who will tolerate and treat you as well as your current ones are quite low.
Jabher–
Awwww now you’re starting to grow on me with all that sweet-talking.
I’ll dedicate one of my favorite song’s lyrics to you (and it’s not in a sarcastic manner, either
)
A Perfect Circle: Judith
“You’re such an inspiration
For ways that i will never ever choose to be
Oh, so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you
fuck your god, your lord, your christ
He did this
Took all you had and left you this way
Still you pray
Never stray
Never taste of the fruit
Never thought to question why
It’s not like you killed someone
It’s not like you drove a hateful spear into his side
Praise the one who left you broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you
Pray to your christ, to your god
Never taste of the fruit
Never stray
Never break
Never choke on a lie
Even though he’s the one who did this to you
Thought to question why
It’s not like you killed someone
It’s not like you drove a spiteful spear into his side
Talk to jesus christ as if he knows the reasons why
He did this all to you
He did it all for you”
*Sigh* If only such a thing were possible.
LR
Scrolllllllllllllllllllllll
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Can we ban the insane woman already?
I’m not for banning most, but her posts are basically “spamming” at this point, which is one of the few things people should be banned for.
Zed,
Firstly, you did not say it explicitly but it was certainly implied.
Secondly, again you presume to know about my relationship with my husband. Firstly, divorce is not an option here and neither of us are running scared or trying to screw each other over. We don’t have that kind of relationship. Our marriage is characterized by two central aspects: respect and love. And our treatment of one another stems from our religious beliefs and not from our feelings or moods, which are purely changeable.
Your own negative experiences have so colored your views that you appear to be incapable of understanding that some people really are as up-front as they seem. Not everyone has a hidden agenda, not everyone is corrupt, not everyone is a hypocrite, not everyone is selfish and narcissistic.
Thirdly, not being a man does not make me unable to empathize with those who are. Do you have to be black to understand the pain of racism? Do you have to be married to understand the devastation of adultery or divorce? No, of course not. So why do you assume that I cannot relate to the issues or that I am merely a spectator here who is oblivious to the real world? I live in the real world, Zed. It’s an ugly, fallen place and I know what’s going down.
B&G,
I think you miss Zed’s point. Most of us here don’t care about empathy.
What actions are you taking to change things? Looking out for yourself is nice, but are you doing anything to further fair treatment for men?
Welmer- What happened to you is disgusting beyond words. How can child support be justified?! That’s outrageous! You shouldn’t feel bad about your experiences shaping your message. What you went through is tragically a picture perfect example of the madness of the family court system and something nobody should have to experience.
The lack of help single fathers receive is an issue that needs to be spoken of more often. From my experiences with the military, I have seen the few dads left behind be left out in the cold when they needed help, so I doubt it’s bold to assume men such as yourself would fare worse, lacking the resources–however lousy they might be–that mil dads can access. Many times these men and their children wouldn’t be invited to an outing or might not be asked if they’d like to take part in a babysitting swap. Even if somebody assumed they weren’t interested, they could have have at least been asked and allowed to say no for themselves. Too many people think men can just be dumped on over and over again and take whatever is thrown their way.
I recall a case in which the father of a large family, a man whose wife recently passed away, wound up abandoning his children under a safe haven law. Many women were talking about how horrible he was, but as they did I couldn’t help but wonder what support he had been offered in the aftermath of his wife’s death. This poor man had likely lost the one person he was really close to and could sincerely confided in and then found himself not only the breadwinner for this family, but suddenly mommy and daddy as well. The pressure must have been intense beyond words. How could he not have been absolutely overwhelmed? Far from being a testament to him being a horrible monster, this case could perhaps be a testament instead to how society abandons men in their hour of need and doesn’t offer the support that typically comes the way of women.
Of course I am. Here’s what I’m doing:
1) I’m homeschooling my children. This is a HUGE topic that few people on these boards seem to recognize as the game-changer that it is. My husband and I left our home country and moved to America in order to do this, as it’s very important to us.
2) I’m politically active, including voting, canvassing, letter-writing, protesting/marching, etc.
3) I’m outspoken with those I meet IRL concerning such issues and have managed to convince quite a few people to reconsider their views on such things. In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m not a wallflower.
4) I have started a blog where I discuss such issues in-depth. It doesn’t have a big readership, though, as there are blogs ad nauseam on the web.
5) I pray everyday for God’s will on Earth. I take prayer very seriously.
6) My husband and I monetarily support numerous causes that we believe in, both directly and through our church.
7) I belong to the Maryland Catholic Conference and am regularly alerted to pressing local and national issues that I should address to my representatives.
I’m hoping that when my children are a bit older I will be able to be more actively involved but right now I am a bit tied-down due to childcare duties. But within 2 years they will both be attending our co-op Mondays and Wednesdays, so I’ll be more free to increase my involvement.
To summarize: I’m not just navel-gazing. These are issues that I care deeply about otherwise I wouldn’t bother coming here to discuss them. In fact, I care more deeply about these issues than most men that I know.
No it wasn’t – you are projecting and generalizing, which is one of the points I am making. I could have made some nasty comments about how women apparently aren’t as great at “multi-tasking” as they claim, to illustrate how men get beaten with this shit every day, but that would have been generalizing crap I’ve gotten from other women onto you. I know you haven’t beaten men here with that, any more than I have implied that “nothing you do is of any consequence because nobody pays you to do it and you shouldn’t have any free time because that means you’re neglecting my duties as resident house-elf.”
One of the most annoying things women do when they come to a men’s board is constantly claim to be the exception to whatever the men are saying. No one is specifically accusing you of that until you make yourself the center of attention by claiming to be the exception.
Maybe you do, maybe you don’t – we don’t care.
The point is that a great many women DO do these things we talk about and those things have a very signficant impact on men and those are the issues we care about. Making yourself the center of attention by bragging about how great a wife your husband has is simply obnoxious to most of us. Once again, we don’t care.
If you really did have any ability to “empathize” you would not commit so many social blunders. If the husband of a woman you knew lost his job, would you continually be going on about how your husband not only still had his, he just got a raise?
I was willing to chalk it up to the differences in communication styles between men and women. Reinholt gets my point perfectly. He understands the way men communicate.
This is a men’s board and it runs by men’s rules. In the home women may get to play “heads I win, tails you lose” with their husbands because they have something to withhold from him if he doesn’t go along with it.
But, here, you have nothing to offer any of us that we care about in the least unless you are actively doing something about the problem in the greater culture, and if you are that is what we are interested in hearing about.
If you want a forum where women’s rules of communication are the norm, then I suggest feministing. But, griping about the way you get treated here is going to get you nothing but intensification of the same treatment until you get a clue.
Since you are the one who is constantly bringing up race, please notice that not once have I pontificated on how you should deal with that. Yet you come in here full of yourself and have the audacity to lecture men about things which you have no firsthand experience. It makes you look like an arrogant fool.
Now, since we are on the subject of race, I will use the same quote that the Black Panthers did back in the 1960s –
“If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.”
As I have said many times, after 40 years of waiting for women to start having some real concern like men, some of us have decided on the strategy of making feminism into women’s problem instead of men’s.
Anything you do from this point on will be to address and improve your own situation, and do not expect praise, gratitude, or even any slack for it. Birds are simply expected to feather their own nests.
B&G- Secondly, again you presume to know about my relationship with my husband.
With all due respect, you have shared quite a bit about certain areas of your marriage, quite a bit more than many of us wanted to know.
Some of the information you have shared about your marriage and sex life crossed the line from blabbing on a blog to betraying your husband’s trust and the bond you two share. I know at least a few others here share this view with me.
I don’t bring up this issue to be unkind, but to care about men means that you look deep within yourself and weed out the nasties that might rear their ugly little heads in your marriage first. A woman cannot rightly support men when being disrespectful to her husband…or appearing to be anyway. Maybe your husband has no issues with you sharing such personal information, I have no way of knowing. I’d also add that sometimes what people don’t say or don’t do can speak volumes about their character to other people, including never speaking ill about one’s husband or betraying his trust in anyway. With this being the norm, people really do notice when such ill treatment does not occur.
Also important to realize is the MRM is, and should be, a largely secular movement, for various reasons. The MRM needs to represent the needs of all men, not only those who are religious, which is why many of the so-con ideas are simply not going to fly on this blog or many others, nor will such ideas be able to adequately address the issues of today’s world. There is no going back to the Provider and Homemaker model en masse but instead a time to evolve into (if I may use a phrase inspired by Novaseeker) Marriage 3.0-at least for those who are interested in marriage. Maybe this will mean bringing equilibrium back to the divorce laws and abolishing the unconstitutional family court system. Maybe it will mean getting the government out of marriage entirely and establishing private marriage contracts. I have no idea and am not smart enough to really contemplate such things, but something needs to change. There is no doubt about this.
Additionally many of the more religious ideas about marriage are actually not supported by sound theology and are very misandric in nature. For this reason many men would rightly be wary of a woman who is listing her prayers and church activities as support for the MRM.
Finally, as women we not only have the opportunity to educate but also to shame other women about their bad behavior. As women there are words we can say that a man couldn’t get away with. There exist circles we can worm our way into where me are not welcome. We can be subversive, toe the line, and hold our sisters accountable for their bad deeds and stupid choices. Shame and righteous judgment can be powerful tools, especially when wielded by somebody the bad behaving women has even an iota of respect for or might want to impress.
Yes, I’ve thought about those guys a lot over the last couple years. There’s very little in the way of resources for fathers.
For my part, I had income imputed to me in the child support case, despite the fact that I was ordered to take care of the kids while their mother was working. That’s just the way it is. I was totally wiped out. If I hadn’t cared about the kids and had said “forget it, I don’t have time for them” it would have been infinitely easier for me. But I’d rather go to jail than not be my kids’ father. If that happens, and it may someday, so be it. My kids and I love each other. The judges will burn in hell when all is said and done.
Thank you, Hestia. You are an incredible asset here.
Yes, a great deal got “shared”, most of which was wildly inappropriate, obnoxious, and would be considered by most men to be a deep betrayal of private business which should remain between husband and wife. Beyond that, I will let your words stand because maybe you have explained it in a way that B&G will be able to understand.
Zed,
You are assuming that every person on these boards is in the same exact situation you are in. Some are married and some are even happily married. Some wish to be married and have children and are simply interested in changing the laws so that it will be a fair deal for them. Discussing married life with them is not bragging, it is debating and having a conversation.
I thought the diversity of the posters was one of the strengths of this board, not one of it’s weaknesses. I actually left these boards in an infantile huff before (as you may recall) but came back after numerous male posters contacted me privately and asked me to return and to continue to provide my input.
Our disagreement is not based on communication styles or my inability to see your point, it is based on the fact that you obviously do not understand my motivation. I don’t expect to receive any praise from you or from anyone else. I am not interested in praise nor have I ever been driven by a need for praise or outside commendation. I do and say what I do and say because I believe it is right, not because I think you will pat me on the back for it.
I am not constantly bringing up race, either. I only discuss it where another poster has brought it up first and I routinely ignore it even then.
And Zed, taking pride in your own suffering is a classic form of arrogance.
No, I am not. You are projecting again, B&G, which is why you are catching so much heat.
Read Welmer’s situation. It is not the same as mine, but I understand it. Read what Paul keep saying about his marriage. I am not in that situation, but I understand it.
And, I am not “taking pride in my suffering.” I understand the suffering that other men are going through, and am being the hard-ass to break through the wall of denial which has kept what has been happening to men from being recognized for the past 40 years.
You are full of it, B&G.
@Hestia,
Then again, maybe not.
Hestia +1
Hell, make that a +2.
Hestia,
With all due respect, you have shared quite a bit about certain areas of your marriage, quite a bit more than many of us wanted to know.
I acknowledged that Zed was right on this point weeks ago and have since refrained from mentioning anything intimate. Or that I would consider intimate. Perhaps our views of what is intimate and what is not, differ. I am German and no prude. In my home country it is common to discuss sex the way Americans discuss indigestion or finances. I moved such comments to my own blog and, yes, he is aware of what I write there and here and has no problem with it.
I have no idea and am not smart enough to really contemplate such things, but something needs to change.
But I am smart enough to do that and have mentioned such ideas both here and on my own blog. You obviously have not read my posts or you would be aware that I am not, in fact, a social conservative. The fact that religion colors my views does not make my ideas any less applicable. You are assuming that the Christian faith is illogical and impractical. Furthermore, the idea that any positive change in laws concerning marriage can take place without the active involvement of the Church is absurd.
And now I’m going to bed.
I’m getting that a lot from women now.
I defend civilization not “cads”.
Yes you did. On your blog you told men to “man up”. This is anti-male shaming language and thus an attack on men.
No, it can also be about getting and/or maintaining an LTR. (See Dave in Hawaii)
If you want to claim that I only relate to women as “cum dumpsters” (your term not mine and something I wouldn’t say), then relating to women as “cum dumpsters” is the way to go since that took me from being a virgin at 31 to sex/relationships with two women.
Susan, this is equivalent to saying if my son plays Russian Roulette he should expect to live because there is only one chamber out of six loaded with a bullet. Just because you have 5 out of 6 chance of surviving doesn’t make playing Russian roulette a good idea. And now marriage is equivalent to playing Russian roulette with 3 chambers out of 6 loaded. (Maybe 4 out of 6 the younger a man is.)
I believe the German word for black is Schwartz.
What a co-incidence Lady Raine. You could also call yourself Black&German. Was it a little disappointing to find someone else had already beaten you to it?
I’m getting that a lot from women now.
Which is better than being a ‘nice guy’.
You just have to ‘Game-ify’ the buttons you are now pushing in women. Try doing some daytime approaches (confident, teasing, arrogant), just for fun.
Susan Walsh is utterly unqualified to discuss the subject that her blog is about. She has yet to learn how women think*, and to accept why a certain percentage of men are concluding that marriage is a bad idea. She also is quite callous about forcing her son 0nto a disastrous path (where a woman takes all his money, threatens to have him jailed, etc. even if HE didn’t seek divorce).
*And no, being a woman does not qualify a woman to discuss how women think. Much like an 8-year old cannot write a textbook about child psychology.
This is indeed a very important step. My own children are home educated, and when they interact with other children their own age (at swimming lessons, etc), the difference is very clear to see.
Unfortunately, the home education dialogue is dominated by women, and it is often taken by them to twisted and cult-like extremes. It would be very interesting to see the Spearhead provide a men’s perspective on home education. Where I have encountered such views (John Holt’s work, for example) I have found them to be far and away the most useful and effective.
An astute observation. I have to say, Hestia, you are one of the few women who’s posts I do not usually skip.
-Heathen
The difference is that I am an actual passport-carrying, born-and-raised German citizen. She is merely a descendant of one and wouldn’t know a Knoedel if it hit her over the head. She’s as German as a Schaefferhund.
And it shows her lack of German historical knowledge to assume that belonging to my ethnic group precludes the enslavement and subjugation of her people.
As to homeschool, just because women are doing the teaching does not mean that men are not involved in the selection of the materials and the planning of the lessons.
Susan Walsh December 9, 2009 at 9:46 am
“The point is that women who want relationships need to “hook up smart” (btw, hooking up means anything from making out to intercourse) with guys who are worthy and capable of relating to women as more than cum dumpsters. I guess you’re not one of those guys, hence the attitude.”
Susan,
your problem is that guys who were great husbands and fathers like me are abused by the courts like the worst cads and you OTHER women celebrate in our abuse and the abuse of our children. In return, we denounce ALL western women as complicit because they will not hold other women accountable for the crimes they commit against men, sit on juries, and incarcerate those found guilty.
My ex committed the crimes of kidnapping, perjury, theft and extortion. In return she was given tons of money, legal aid, and support. If a man did these things he would be in jail.
You women claim ‘equality’ but demand massive ‘princess privileges’. You are crap. Pure and simple. I won’t talk to western women. I severed ALL but one relationship with all western women because you are such crap and you are worthless as friends and even as human beings. I only date eastern european women who are lovely.
Every young man I meet I tell him marriage is a trap. Many men I tell western women are the brainless dupes of the Illuminati and have been programmed to hate men. So far from talk about ‘guys who are worthy’ I talk about women who are worthy. And no western women are worthy of the benefit of having my dick in them. Period.
All you women can talk about is how us men have to be ‘worthy’ while you women are liars, criminals, sluts, whores and child abusers in massive numbers. You are not worthy of standing in the shadow of my grandmothers whom I eulogised at their funerals, fine women they were.
Take your ‘worthy guys’ comment and shove it up your arse you brain dead whore.
Fiercely Independent John Nada December 8, 2009 at 4:37 pm
“Who’s next?”
Me.
newly divorced December 8, 2009 at 10:05 pm
“I am willing to do so if everyone else will.”
ND, don’t wait for others to do the same as you….get out there and do it yourself. I have told thousands of young men not to get married. Every time I am served by a young man in a bar, hotel, store, cab, you name it…I ask if he is married and if he is not tell him not to…it really pisses the women off!! LOL!
“The whole divorce system was designed by upper middle class women to serve them.”
No. It was designed by the Illuminati to destroy the family, drive men away from women to make the women and children easier to kill when the time came. Period.
“If we could just educate guys at the 20 top med schools and mba programs we could probably win this battle within five years.”
Every man who refuses to participate in THEIR system wins HIS battle TODAY.
Mrs. Pilgrim December 9, 2009 at 9:17 am
You are an idiot. Thanks for demonstrating how stupid women are.
Welmer,
this is a really important topic…yet it is infested with women…ban the women already dude…I’m sick to death of the rubbish they spout…pretty much none of it true.
Heathen-It would be very interesting to see the Spearhead provide a men’s perspective on home education. Where I have encountered such views (John Holt’s work, for example) I have found them to be far and away the most useful and effective.
I’d love to see this topic covered too. The lack of the male perspective in the homeschooling discussion is bothersome, especially when many of those who have contributed so greatly to the movement were men who dared to think outside the box and author books to wake up the rest of us.
John Holt was the first home education author I came across during high school and his writings helped me put into words all the thoughts bouncing about my head wrt my own government schools education, as well as why I would never want to hand over any of my potential children to the beast that is these schools. Holt’s writings are some of the best education writings IMHO and adequately address the issue far better than pretty much every woman who has authored homeschooling books.
I have to say, Hestia, you are one of the few women who’s posts I do not usually skip.
Thank you for your kind words, heathen.
I think that is the winning strategy for most men, and certainly for any individual man. For the past 40 years men have been seeking collectivist solutions to a collectivist problem and have tried to f0llow the ruts well worn by women without stopping to think those ruts will lead to the same dead end.
The minute any individual man decides to take control over his own life and not sit around passively waiting for the culture to change to suit him, he has started down the path to personal victory. In the past, men have survived and thrived in a variety of hostile environments mostly on their own resources or with the cooperation of a few trusted comrades. Today, the hostile environment is our own governments and a social value system which is totally wacked out. But, the worst penalties are reserved for those men who go along with the value system – the renegades are suffering very little and in many cases reaping huge rewards.
Respectfully disagree, GM. Any place a man goes will be infested with women doing everything they can to advance the causes and position of Team Woman. The most important individual personal skill a man can develop is to learn how to be unaffected by any and all of the mind games they try to run.
One of the biggest barriers men who have been trying to raise awareness about men’s issues have faced is the absolutely impenetrable wall of denial regarding the self-serving and destructive behavior of women. Having women here acting as personal examples of the self-serving malice of women and all the different ways they dress it up in pretty and plausible-sounding language makes our case better than we will ever be able to do.
When it boils down to mouth-to-mouth combat, women only have a limited number of tactical mindgames in their arsenals – attack, undermine, deny, refute, accuse, confuse, and refuse (to acknowledge anything a man says.) Once a man realizes that their entire objective is keep him from being heard, and he gives up trying to convince them of anything, then as long as he keeps throwing their mind games back in their faces and ignoring them and not being affected by them, he has mastered the stonewalling strategy which is the only effective way to deal with women.
Their strategy is always to wear a man down until they get their way. In the absence of the ability to appeal to some outside power to force the man to give them what they want – such as goverment – they are on their own and largely ineffective.
At least here at the Spearhead men have an environment where there are not manginas in charge playing white knight and doing women’s dirty work of silencing other men for them.
No number of books by Belfort Bax, or Dave Sim, or Tom Leykis podcasts will have the same effect on a man as observing day in and day out women doing their level best to make sure that nothing of importance to men ever receives a fair hearing. When he takes the responsibility for himself to deal with the situation – regardless of what anyone else or the government does – then he has all the power that is possible for a man to have in this day and age.
Since Zed referenced me I will chip in here.
Put me in the same camp as Globalman when it comes to women posters. I have been on forums like this since 2003 and the posting “styles” of women has not changed. Only the names change.
Ladies, here are the mistakes that you are making.
First, any time we paint women in a negative light, you ladies can’t run to the keyboard fast enough to type “I am not like that”. We don’t give a fuck. And we have no proof. But those aren’t the main reasons we jump your shit for doing this. When you do this you are identifying yourself with team vagina. Today’s word is “disassociate”, and if it’s not a word it is now. Think of yourself as “person” first, and woman second. Additionally, this response diminishes the views and experiences of the guys here, which is a slap in the face. Sure to draw a reaction from the men here. This also smacks of “keep looking, keep trying”. Bullshit on this. We quit. Got it? Nothing good ever comes from typing I/we are not like that. Back away from the keyboard.
On to Lady I don’t have a fucking Brain.
Bitch, please. So we don’t meet your definition of “real men” here. Excuse me while I squirt 2 tears into a dixie cup because of what you think. There is no need for you to post and try to shame us into changing our views. We are not here to celebrate women. We are not here to “mobilize” and impact change. We ARE here as a place to assure guys that, no, it’s not you (men) that are the problem, and yes, things are as fucked up as you (men) think they are. So, LR, if our viewpoints bother you I have a simple solution.
Get the Fuck out.
Ivillage—————————————————————->
Lady Raine,
When you made the comment “You’re worse than the Blacks that ask for “reparations””, what were you referring to? Were you referring to the Blacks in the 1920s in cities such as: Chicago, Washington DC, Knoxville TN, or Tulsa OK (aka: the Black Wall Street) that wound up facing an angry mob of Caucasians who burned them out of their communities and were responsible for them having to to give up everything they knew and worked for to keep themselves and their families alive? Look those cities up and you’ll find entire sections of cities that were filled with people who were persecuted for no other reason than trying to achieve and demanding equality.
It is for this time period that most of the the “reparations” talk is referring to.
I do have one question. Why is it that when someone who is Jewish speaks of the atrocities that happened to their ancestors or proclaims that they have not been given a fair chance due to their race, everyone listens with warm sympathy in their hearts, however, when someone who is African American
makes the same comments, they are told to shut up and stop whining?
There are states in the US that offer additional income to people who were affected by the holocaust. Still trying to understand this one myself seeing as how the holocaust happened in another country and part of my income is used to provide restitution to a problem that belongs to Germany.
What happened to the Jewish community during that dark period was atrocious to be sure, but in what context is it different from what another race of people were forced to endure for MUCH longer?
I dont know why, but I have noticed lately that more and more on progressive and PUA sites, racism is alive and well. As if we are our color first and a brotherhood of men second.
I dont mean to throw the topic off, however, this comment by Lady Raine was enough to illicit my response. I never saw it when reading Roissy’s blog, but she’s literally another ignorant racist with too much to say and no knowledge or substance backing her up.
@arthur
Right on cue! Well done! We’re getting this “good cop, bad cop” bit down quite well, don’t you think? To give credit where credit is due, you still do junkyard-dog better than I do, but you are developing a lot more finesse with that sledgehammer.
So, taking your pass and heading on down the ice –
And, by that identification, actually get exactly the opposite result from what it appears they are trying to get. Any time a woman suddenly leaps in in defense of “Team Woman” it is because a man has begun to wake up from his coma and realize that the vast majority of women do not give a shit about men except to the extent that they can use those men for their own purposes. Any time a man indicates that he might be getting ready to quit, Team Woman immediately realizes that there is a man who is about to put himself beyond the reach of some woman to jerk him around. And, not 1 woman out of 1,000 can stand for that – so they jump in to deny, refute, and confuse the issue about what the man is saying.
Now, where I disagree with the issue of banning women like this is that men simply have to wake up to the fact that as soon as all the meat is stripped off his bones, and the last of those bones is cracked and the marrow sucked out and that bone tossed on the bone pile, that the vast majority of women will never think about that man again and will be vigorously in search of their next victim. Until men realize this, and totally give up the notion that “we need women allies”, they are going to keep making the same old mistakes over and over.
This is the purpose that allowing these women to continue to post here serves for men – no matter how many times a man tries to tell another man that is simply the way women are, that other guy will never believe it until he sees it with his own eyes. So, allowing them to post here is the best way to prove what we are saying.
Now, on to an even more significant point.
Realmansprecht has been the mustard gas of the gender war. This is where I part company with EW about the whole “REAL MAN(TM)” BS and advocate simply regarding it as nothing more than an annoying and useless noise akin to some snot scraping her fingernails on a blackboard.
The point to be made here is that the old shaming mind games are worn out – they have no tread left on them at all and the cords are showing through. It doesn’t matter in the least what people we hold in utter contempt think of us, and in fact the more they dislike us the more it is an indication that we are doing something right.
This whole little scenario here has been very instructive. Notice how when a woman like LR shows up to do the dirty work for the local contingent of “-not-like-that” women, that suddenly every last one of them is AWOL. Then, as soon as men have made it safe for Mrs. Grundy to resume wagging her finger at us, they are back in force spouting their drivel, projecting their own pathologies, and making their accusations.
I think you may be getting a bit soft in your old age, arthur – you are actually giving women some useful advice –
Women had better damn quickly start dissociating themselves from the rest of “Team Bitch” if they want to salvage any of their reputation at all. Asserting that they are “not like that” is not going to be half enough in the days ahead – they had better be twisting themselves into pretzels trying to convince men that they are “not like that”, and be given a Miranda type warning that the first denial, refutation, or mimimization of, or excuse for, women’s bad behavior, or the first attempt to sucker a man into giving even one more woman the opportunity to jerk him around, can and will be used against her in a Court du Jour of the men present (thank you, GM) and considered conclusive evidence of conspiracy with the rest of Team Woman to insure that their supply of men to exploit never runs low.
It is time to put women on the defensive – remember that the best defense is a good offense. The 2nd half of the gender war will turn out to be real interesting.
@Una Salus Victus
Don’t worry, we do point flaws with Jews too. Search “Frankfurt School” in here for some xamples.
When you made the comment “You’re worse than the Blacks that ask for “reparations””, what were you referring to? Were you referring to the Blacks in the 1920s in cities such as: Chicago, Washington DC, Knoxville TN, or Tulsa OK (aka: the Black Wall Street) that wound up facing an angry mob of Caucasians who burned them out of their communities and were responsible for them having to to give up everything they knew and worked for to keep themselves and their families alive? Look those cities up and you’ll find entire sections of cities that were filled with people who were persecuted for no other reason than trying to achieve and demanding equality.
It is for this time period that most of the the “reparations” talk is referring to.
No, not necessarily. I don’t mean to sound crass, but I have only ever heard Blacks “demanding reparations for their slavery to the White Man.” Typically when you hear that particular ridiculous argument it’s pretty non-specific.
My answer to any Blacks asking for reparations is that “My Yankee ancestors already fought and died for your freedom. Your reparations were paid in the blood of many White Men a very long time ago.”
Furthermore, referencing particular situations and eras and wanting “reparations” for singular events is just nonsense and you know it. Everyone on earth would then be deserving of “reparations” by those standards.
You referenced the Jews, I believe…..I don’t think they deserve reparations of any kind, either.
Puritans burned their own women and children rampantly in more than a few countries of the world. Did all Pagan Faiths get “reparations” for that? No.
Did the indentured servants from Ireland who were essentially “White Slaves” to other Whites ever get paid any “reparations”??? Nope.
Ever culture, race, religion, and gender have endured unspeakable horrors at the hands of other men since the beginning of time. That is the reality of the world and historical fact. Why do Blacks deserve more than anyone else on earth?
USV, Miz Raine is a self-admitted troll here. You are ill advised to continue to engage with her.
may The Schwartz
be with
you
I’m still waiting patiently for my 40 acres and a mule. LOL. Or do I only get 20 acres and a pig since I’m only half black?
Zed
“This whole little scenario here has been very instructive. Notice how when a woman like LR shows up to do the dirty work for the local contingent of “-not-like-that” women, that suddenly every last one of them is AWOL. Then, as soon as men have made it safe for Mrs. Grundy to resume wagging her finger at us, they are back in force spouting their drivel, projecting their own pathologies, and making their accusations.”
Zed, I’ve noticed this and commented on it before, and I think your response sums it up perfectly. The women who frequent this board, with possibly one, maybe two exceptions (literally), are all here for self-serving reasons. Whether they are closet feminists, attention whores, or just get a rise out of trying to ruffle feathers by spewing filth, they are here for themselves, not men or the problems men face. I agree with you in that banning all but the most obvious trolls is pointless and not necessary, because none of them are able to hide their true face for very long, and seeing this is very instructive for the men here.
arthur
“First, any time we paint women in a negative light, you ladies can’t run to the keyboard fast enough to type “I am not like that.”
Arthur, I think it is also laughable how many women run to the keyboard to let us know if we paint women in a negative light, we can never hope to convince women to join our “movement,” so we had better tone it down and start being nice. Typical control tactic through framing. They try to frame the issue of one where we are vying for their support, and expect us to mindlessly obey in order to gain their approval. And only a few on this site here have the cajones to tell them to go take a hike.
Agreed with Zed.
Also, perhaps it is not coincidence that we have seen the most “I am not like that” and trolling in a post about disconnecting from marriage.
It’s almost like that sort of post pulls back the curtain and hits those who would take unfair advantage of men where it hurts!
Where there is smoke, there is fire.
If you guys were really serious about all this stuff, you would be for a complete separation of marriage from civil law. Why should we let the state have any say in our marriages at all? There could be a civil union contract available for those who are interested.
B&G we pretty much all agree with that position. At least in the US, religious marriage and civil marriage are already theoretically distinct; it’s just that people generally do either both or neither (cohabitation laws, which I expect we are pretty much all against, notwithstanding).
Oh, that. I am not like that women are usually just like that, whatever that is.
Since I translate that almost automatically, I never payed too much attention to it.
I suspect this appearance is made all the easier by the same woman assuming multiple personalities and identities. Who here hasn’t noticed the feminine penchant for acting? It’s not as if she hasn’t already admitted it – here’s something Lady Raine stated earlier in this thread:
“I was a child in the public eye to some degree and can flip my personalities and emotions on and off like a switch.”
Reinholt’s observation about the inordinate amount of trolling of this particular topic is right on the money. Threatening marriage and turning more men off it strikes a particular fear in the heart of most women, and they respond in the most natural feminine way – by creating diversions. They don’t even know why they are doing it. That’s how instinct works. Some event causes a bad feeling, and a particular response creates a good feeling. Conscious thought is not guiding the process – it is only being used to figure out ways to get the good feeling.
You are distinguishing yourself from Lady Raine on the most peculiar grounds. We’re supposed to believe you’re genuinely German, but Lady Raine isn’t. Has she told you she doesn’t have a German passport? If she had one, is it really material? Peculiar also that while you call yourself ‘Black’, Lady Raine admits her name as ‘Wendy Schwartz’ (Schwartz is German for black). You are both ‘black’ and you are both German. You also employ the same method for emphasis (capitalizing all letters in a particular word), and you both structure your comments in the same way. You are both particular about spelling. You are both capable of mixing reason with obvious illogic and blatant self interest (a good way to make people take poison is to sweeten it). The only noticeable difference is that ‘Black&German’ presents herself as married and a faithful wife, home-schooling her children and baking cookies, while Lady Raine professes to be a single mother and opposed to marriage. The difference is only in the roles they claim to play – there is no clear difference in the more substantial ways that individuals differ.
By the Lady Raine character’s own admission:
“I was a child in the public eye to some degree and can flip my personalities and emotions on and off like a switch.”
@Arbitrary,
I would probably do both, as well. And I’m sure my Church would require it, as they want legal recognition of their unions (as much as it annoys me).
My point is that civil union contracts (instead of civil marriage, which mirrors Christian marriage) would be less onerous. That would have two benefits: it would bring more cohabiting couples out of legal limbo (which would be good for their children) and it would get rid of legal divorce. Then, whenever a dissolution of the contract is called for, joint-custody could be default.
You could even have tiered contracts with more strict ones for those who choose.
And the rest of us could continue to marry without the state interfering. That would solve the whole “gay marriage” issue, as well.
@ piercedhead,
Are you saying you think we’re the same person? You’re kidding, right?
About when did that penny drop?
I’m sorry, but are you guys actually trying to accuse me of being various different posters???
I can assure you that there is NO chance that I would even want to “pretend” to be a Black person. Not even for the sake of irritating you guys.
I didn’t even realize that “Black & German” was talking to me (about me) but the fact that he/she is BLACK and from Germany means that she happens to live in a Germany that White People created long before any Blacks were allowed there. Sorry but an entire lineage of German ancestors trumps your “Random Blacks family that happens to be from modern day Germany”.
You’re not more “German” than an American college kid that lives in Amsterdam for a few years is Dutch.
Once again, I don’t want to do any “dirty work” or ANY for on the behalf of/for women anywhere. There are two females on this earth that I can tolerate. My 13 y/o niece and my sister. The rest of women on earth can burst into flames for all I care, so please stop that nonsense.
Actually, I have never had those types of feelings. I do not “feel” things the same way that others do. I can feel real love for family….totally loyal and unbreakable love. However, even since I was a little girl my mother said I talked about growing up, having a career, and then traveling all around the world. I can honestly say that even the prospect of a man “sleeping over” (even in a LTR of a few years) is something that is just not me. I’m solitary by nature and feelings are not easily invoked in me in general.
So honestly, no I cannot relate.
zed December 10, 2009 at 8:41 am
They like to insult us for no reason? I feel quite entitled to insult then back with the truth.
“Respectfully disagree, GM. Any place a man goes will be infested with women doing everything they can to advance the causes and position of Team Woman. The most important individual personal skill a man can develop is to learn how to be unaffected by any and all of the mind games they try to run.”
Nope. I have places to go where ‘team western women’ are not present. The peace and quiet is lovely. I also have places to go where ‘team eastern women’ are plentiful and that is great too. It’s just where ‘team western women’ are present that I find loathsome. And I have a simple remedy. I don’t go there much and when I do I make sure I insult a few of the dumb sluts for my trouble of putting up with their crap..
Then again, I guess men here would rather read inane posts from brainless women than to find out how to stop paying income taxes…
Black&German December 10, 2009 at 11:57 am
“If you guys were really serious about all this stuff”
B&G, my position is “who the fuck would want to be married at all”. Marriage sucks. I used to like it but it was only because I was brainwashed to like it. I had sex with three women to 44. I thought my ex was pretty good in my 20s. But after baby #2 arrived it was “gm, meet your right hand” time.
My ex was useless in helping me even when I was injured. One time, having slipped two disks in my back putting the kids bikes together I was on some painkiller that had me higher than a kite and asking for water to drink and she’s like “Why should I fetch and carry for you?”
Since April last year? I’m making so much money I wouldn’t know how to spend it. I’m enjoying my work. I’m eating well, drinking well, and being merry. I’ve dated about 15-20 women ALL better than my ex ever was with the top 4 in that number being outstanding. Kind, loving, caring and hot. The further I get from marriage the more I ask “what the fuck was I thinking”. When I saw my ex 2 weeks ago in court it was like “GM, what the fuck were you doing married to fat middle aged old hag like that for? You are so lucky she finally exposed herself. You might have stayed for another 20 years you dumb smuck!”
My divorce has cost about EUR300K all up. And I consider that a GREAT DEAL!! I was going to protect and provide for my ex for the next 23 years like the last 23 years. And I was soooooo brainwashed I actually was going to do it all again with Wife 2.0…how STUPID was I? I quit with her April 1 last year and found my first eastern chick that weekend.
Now I have dated hot eastern chicks who are desperate to get married? I will never, ever look back on marriage as a good idea. Nope. No way. I will die a bachelor now. I could never go back to just one woman no matter how good she was. I want to have at least 3 on speed dial at any point in time, preferrably 4 or 5. Just like restaurants. Hhhmmm….maybe a little Russian today, Polish thursday, followed by Czech for the weekend…
Ok..that last bit is a joke. I admit it. I gotta space it out a bit more now I am older!
@We should all know by now, but for those who are late to movie, it rhymes with Baby and Maim.
-Sooociopath!
No, we are not accusing you of being various different posters. Only I am, because of the chain of interesting common features you share with Black&German. Curious you should apologize for making that statement.
I forgot to mention another couple of common features, now that you remind me of them. Both of you are fiercely proud of your German heritage, and both of you attack the other on her pretension to being a real German. Of a world of different ways to distinguish yourselves, why do you both choose the same measure?
Secondly, this is not a common comment from a woman:
Black&German has also expressed antipathy toward other women, as if they were a group she didn’t feel any identity with.
Aw man. She’s posting here now, too?
Guhhhhhh….
Pierced Head–
Well it’s not like it’s the first time I’ve been accused of having Multiple Personalities, but you clearly missed the point.
I’d never want to be Black for a day, let alone pretend to be Black as a permanent online persona.
As for Black & German….. there is no such thing as a “Black German”. Only a Black person who happens to live in Germany.
So yes, Black and German could be typing her messages here right FROM Germany as we speak and I am STILL and always will be far more German than she.
Her ancestors were still dancing around the fires in Zimbabwe while my White Ancestors were building one of the most powerful nations in the world. And the Blacks certainly had no part in that. You are only there because my German Ancestors allow you to be.
Seriously, though…. why would anyone do that anyhow? Do you mistakenly think I have some sort of “political agenda” to be won by “pretending” to be Wendy from PA for the past 7 years?? (meaning since I have myspace and facebook pages that everyone and their mother has stalked from Roissy’s place and already knows that I’m clearly who I say I am.)
I’m still trying to figure out why people are coming from “Game” blogs to my mostly Engineering & Technology-related blog to say stupid shit about men/women in my comments section and then COMPLAIN when I come to the source and address the issues.
Jabher–
You do realize that calling a Sociopath a Sociopath is about as insulting as calling a Serial Killer “brilliant”, right?
It’s hardly an accusation when you make the admission yourself. Remember writing this?:
“I was a child in the public eye to some degree and can flip my personalities and emotions on and off like a switch.”
Your lack of a clear feminist agenda is another feature you share with Black&German. Neither of you are feminist ideologues. Your more obvious characteristics are that you both want to engage with men, argue with them and tell them all sorts of personal details about yourselves (most of which I suspect is made up). It reminds me of little girls who act in order to get their Daddy’s attention. It had occurred to me that you may even be male – an online Norman Bates – but it was the fact that this thread was about educating men about the dangers of marriage that makes me think otherwise. A woman is much more likely than a man to feel the bad feeling that stimulates her into responding when a subject like ‘marriage under threat’ is signaled.
It’s a reasonable bet to assume that you are not motivated by political feminism at all, and that your presence here stems from some kind of personality disorder. People who repeatedly return to places where it has been made abundantly clear they are not welcome are demonstrating some kind of social inability. I mention this because I think you could benefit from the right help, if you could summon the courage to seek it.
Realizing that I am feeding your addiction to social engagement (no matter what its quality), be advised that I shall no longer be responding to either you or any other fake personae you create for the purpose of gathering in greater numbers of responders and attention.
By the way, you may be interested to learn that efforts to educate young men about the dangers of marriage are well underway with concrete results not far off.
What’s ironic about COMMENTS to throw off the lessons of the ARTICLE is most people read the ARTICLE, and then skim a few comments. Even if their “let’s save marriage” reaction were to employ… 50-60% of posts here (spamming, heh), the truth is, most Men would still learn what they needed without being impeded by them.
@piercedhead,
This is all very humorous but a bit tiring. I have nothing against women, just feminists (of either gender) and misogynists.
You aren’t German without German citizenship. That would be like saying I’m Japanese because my great-grandfather is from Okinawa (he isn’t).
@Frauelein,
I am of Germanic descent (hence the name). And my black forefathers are not from Zimbabwe.
You’re American. Get over it. It’s not that terrible. There are many people who are American their whole lives and live through the ordeal.