Going back to the second feminist revolution of the 90’s, we men have been bombarded with a nonstop barrage of hysteria about rape, “date rape” in particular. According to the mean-mouthed commissars of the false rape industry, there’s purportedly an epidemic of men spiking womens’ drinks with roofies and dragging the newly helpless damsels off to have their way with them. When I was in college, girls were admonished to guard their drinks as zealously as if they were protecting a vault of treasure, and the resultant panic fed into the myths about the prevalence of campus rape. I always wondered why, if date rape of this variety was so common, why the girls concerned about it simply didn’t avoid the sorts of venues where it would likely happen, but that was before I figured out that feminism is all about allowing women to do whatever they want, damned be the consequences.
Now, via Robin Hanson at Overcoming Bias, we’ve learned that the plague of floozies being drugged with flunitrazepam is a big load of hooey:
A study of more than 200 students revealed many wrongly blamed the effects of a “bad night out” on date-rape drugs, when they had just drunk excessively.
Many are in “active denial” that drinking large amounts of alcohol can leave them “incoherent and incapacitated”, the Kent University researchers concluded.
Young women’s fears about date-rape drugs are so ingrained that students mistakenly think it is a more important factor in sexual assault than being drunk, taking drugs or walking alone at night.
But despite popular beliefs, police have found no evidence that rape victims are commonly drugged with such substances, the researchers said.
So why are so many women falsely claiming to be roofied? You’ve got ninety-nine guesses, and the first ninety-eight don’t count:
Dr Adam Burgess from the university’s School of Social Policy, Sociology and Social Research, said: “Young women appear to be displacing their anxieties about the consequences of consuming what is in the bottle on to rumours of what could be put there by someone else.
“The reason why fear of drink-spiking has become widespread seems to be a mix of it being more convenient to guard against than the effects of alcohol itself and the fact that such stories are exotic – like a more adult version of ’stranger danger’.”
Women seeking to avoid responsibility for their actions. But hey, what else is new?
_______________________________________________________
Ferdinand Bardamu knows BS when he sees it. He blogs at the newer, sleeker, sexier In Mala Fide. You can follow him on Twitter here.
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Don’t expect feminist to take the slightest notice of any of this. As I said in another comment – belief is superior to fact. The only truth is what women and feminist believe.
I will be controversial and make the astounding claim that actually men would prefer their women not to be asleep when they make love to them. The occasion wriggle indicating that they are not in fact dead is quite appreciated by men – is it not?
People are idiots.
I wonder if drink spiking is incorporated into the scenarios presented in Victoria, Australia’s compulsory feminism indoctrination.
This is a re-post, but people need to know how to deal with Officer Friendly if it happens to them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related
You can download it using:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6584
You will never see valuable advice like this from Hollywood.
Remember, everyone is only one crazy woman away from a false accusation happening to them.
There was a letter to the editors in the L.A. Times a few years ago from a nurse. She said that girls come into her office all the time after these attacks. In fact I have found a reference to the letter:
http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/news/2004may/27_latimes.html
Basically you are saying that women believe that if they watch like a hawk their drinks it will not affect their judgement when they chug alcohol like water in the desert? LOL. I’m saying believe because they rationalize all their BS, but this is ridiculous.
It’s just an excuse for when they don’t sleep with an alpha.
I don’t know if you have done a topic on this, but my friends and I have noticed a trend in women where they tell a guy early on in a date that they have been raped in the past.
The women say it in a manner that makes it obvious that they just want to see how you will react. It seems like some sort of test to see if you are the “white knight” type or not. And perhaps it’s kind of a “get out of jail free” card too.
girl: “I’m not responsible for my actions because I’m so emotional over being raped years ago. Don’t be mad that I crashed your car”
@Ferdinand,
1) roofies………it happens. I have personally (professionally) cared for a girl who was sedated from a party drink.
2) you are quibbling re: the prevelance.
3) you are quoting someone else’s opinion, not someone’s clinical study.
4) search “date rape sedatives” in the Annals of Emergency Medicine. I’m not going to do your work for you.
5) next time prior to disseminating false information, do some homework.
Ah, you have to appreciate the power of pictures. Don’t fool yourselves, gents: the “women” in these pictures are exactly the kind of “victims” the feminist-victim lobby is trying to “defend”. Of course, what it really is, is another front in the gender war, and they’ll stoop to any level to perpetuate it.
Oh, and remember, a drunk man having sex with a less drunk or sober woman is not rape on the woman’s part. Only when alcohol is involved and a woman later regrets the encounter, or just wants to be vindictive, or feels cheap after a one night stand – then the “rape” charges come out, and the full aid of the state comes to the aid of the poor, aggrieved woman (who was likely behaving like the dames in this article’s picture).
Hey guys, jz says we’re “quibbling” about the prevalence. Nothing to see here, move along. Anyone care for a copy of Ms. Magazine while we’re at it?
I began perusing this magazine, with an open mind toward understanding the issues of men re: marriage laws. The misinformation (that’s Chuck Ross and Ferdinand + others) and sloppy scholarly work have put it into a nosedive.
NEVER associate with those women. Those are the ones who will make false accusations.
@jz
So, because it doesn’t affect you directly and/or isn’t what you want to read is inmediatly misinformation and sloppy scholarly work? Really, this magazine is written by several suthors, and we cover a lot of subjects.
So if there’s something that you don’t want to read, nobody forces you. Could you please stop whining on every single article that you don’t like? You can always submit one of your own.
“jz December 3, 2009 at 1:23 pm
@Ferdinand,
1) roofies………it happens. I have personally (professionally) cared for a girl who was sedated from a party drink.”
And I know someone who died by getting sucked down a drainage pipe. Doesn’t make it a common problem. And to attack our un-scholarly work, but not present citations and such yourself is hypocritical. Get of your holier than thou high horse, join the debate, and try to back your shit up. Don’t try some hit and run shaming tactics. Maybe you should do some homework about us. We don’t fall for such pathetic grasping at straw counter debates. Your not even close to changing our minds here. Your just pissing us off, and making us retrench deeper. Good work. Now instead of hating feminist and their white kight saviors, I really hate feminist and their white kight saviors. Are you a chick? Hiding your sex behind initials is something a chick or a lazy person would do. Which is it?
before any group can be fully targeted and oppressed as scapegoats, tremendous propaganda must be disseminated to convince people that the scapegoats “deserve” their punishment — and that extreme measures are justified based on the assumed risks to society of the targeted group
we see this clearly in the pussycat woods saga, and also in the amerikan “epidemics” of date-rape and campus “rape cultures”
the lie remains the same, only the decades change
in the mid-nineties, while living in oregon, i spoke with a woman who was about to send her daughter to the university of oregon
the woman expressed extreme worries about the “climate of rape” on oregon campuses and was convinced that her daughter was at great risk attending U of O
not long afterward, i read a major story in The Oregonian (oregon’s newspaper of record) about this very subject — the article was standard feminist hysteria about how oregon campuses were hotbeds of male predators, and how the “rape culture” supported by the “patriarchy” actually ENCOURAGED the abuse of innocent, helpless co-eds
so the next week i called Campus Security at U of O and asked the PIO for data on sexual assault on campus over the past few years
the woman came back to the phone and told me there were NO reports of sexual assault at U of O over the past three years
not an absence of conviction, but an absence even of complaints of sexual assault!
so i asked her to check back a few more years . . . same answer, no complaints on record
the incident illustrated how not only in oregon, but all across amerika, females were/are kept in a state of constant fear — a fear with which they have a love/hate relationship — of rape and abuse by Those Evil Men and Their Patriarchy
the whole Hysterical Matriarchy (redundant) is based similarly on hugely inflating the fears/insecurities of females — but the real goal is the mass scapegoating of masculinity, so the matriarchy then has an “excuse” to oppress boys and men, and to transfer power and wealth away from males and to females (under guise of protecting the victims ie females)
limbaugh was correct to call feminists feminazis, but he should have had the courage to extend the metaphor to our entire culture, because our matriarchy scapegoats and oppresses its males using the same propagandistic tactics of the third reich
reality and truth are conveniently tossed aside to make way for whatever hysterical lies serve the power interests of females and their male enablers
the matriarchies collectively represent the fourth reich, and that reich is now very much in power throughout the western world
ferdinand:
like the post.
i have come into contact with many, many women (and even some guys) who claim to have been roofied. my girlfriend even thinks that she has been in the past.
i’m quick to call BS, or at least put it into perspective. they always claim they are roofied by randoms at bars, but why would a random guy roofie a girl who likely showed up with other people? isn’t the point of roofying to take her home and take advantage of her? if its a random guy, how’s he even going to pull that off?
and yes, women are quick to drag out their “roofy stories” like badges of honor. *I’ve* been roofied. Most likely its a combination of too much booze with too little food, the alcohol hitting them the wrong way (I’ve had nights where only consuming several beers affects me much more strongly than consuming a 12 pack would).
On top of this, I’ve been going out to bars and clubs with friends quite consistently for many years now and I’ve never witnessed or personally heard of a guy using any of these drugs on women. It happens, I’m sure, but its a rare occurence.
Women are quick to resort to this complaint because a.) it gives them a story to tell b.) it is a catch-all for any stupid shit they did the night before and c.) it seems perfectly reasonable given the dearth of sensationalist media reports about the drug’s use.
jz,
what exactly are you saying? the prevelance issue is far from quibbling. it’s the entire point of the post. if women go out thinking that getting drugged is the biggest danger they face, they do themeselves a great disservice. i don’t see that as a very controversial position.
and one of his links is to an article on a study published in a UK criminology journal. a quick google search turned up these as well:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/pres/jat/1999/00000023/00000003/art00002
http://news.ulster.ac.uk/releases/2007/3426.html
from a quick two minute google lit review it seems that alcohol is far and away the most common drug assoicated with date rape and that most of the drugs found in tox screenings are recreational. all the articles referring to a common practice of people spiking drinks were news reports and warning from organizations that do rape prevention and advocacy; almost all of those either dealt with a single incident or how to deal with a hypotetical case of spiking.
if there’s some robust literature on this stuff, please share it. i’m interested.
jz:
“I began perusing this magazine, with an open mind toward understanding the issues of men re: marriage laws. The misinformation (that’s Chuck Ross and Ferdinand + others) and sloppy scholarly work have put it into a nosedive.”
dude, i’ll openly admit that i’ve laid a couple of eggs in different posts. epoxytocin 87 brought to my attention something that i’d overlooked in yesterday’s post. i had a post about old women’s sex drives, the thesis of which i’d reformulate given some things commenters pointed out. overall though, i personally think those topics are interesting, occasionally i’m wrong, but i hope they at least spark some kind of debate or a new way of looking at things.
i rarely read MRA sites that deal with the topics you discuss, but that’s because they are mostly dull and boring. if the Spearhead turns into an echo chamber that publishes articles on the same 4 topics it will never gain traction and it will become just another MRA device. those devices always get relegated to the margins of the blogospher; the Spearhead needs to stay fresh and relevant to *all* men rather than just one niche of men.
that being said, Ferdinand’s post today doesn’t show a lack of homework. he brings up a point that i’ve noticed and had discussions with many other guys about. WOMEN DON’T GET ROOFIED AS OFTEN OR AS MUCH AS THEY SAY.
It’s important to remember that women handle alcohol much worse than men do. That’s even when you control for size and weight, by the way. The long-term health effects of alcohol abuse are also worse in women. They just aren’t as well-equipped to handle it.
Don’t try telling them that though. Actually, maybe you should. The average WW will probably then proceed to show up your “chauvinistic” ass by attempting to outdrink you. She will of course fail, and wind up in a puddle of her own puke. I kind of like this idea, actually. It happens on a culture-wide basis already, really; women trying to ape the drinking culture of men. Have at it, girls, your ill-health brings me pleasure these days.
jz,
far from quibbling, i would say that prevelance is the key issue here. if women go out into the world thinking that being “roofied” is there number one concern, they are doing themselves a grave disservice. and the people who perpetuate those claims are setting women up for failure.
as for studies, here are a couple of links:
http://news.ulster.ac.uk/releases/2007/3426.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1036932
i just did a two minute lit review on google and google scholar and from what i can tell there is no empirical evidence that supports wide-scale sexual assault where men slip women unsuspecting drugs. quite the contrary, the most widely found drug in these cases is alcohol, and all the others seem recreational.
if you have contrary evidence , i am legitimatelyinterested in seeing it.
“Young women appear to be displacing their anxieties about the consequences of consuming what is in the bottle on to rumours of what could be put there by someone else”
It’s true of older women as well. Remember Lois Sex-in-the-mens-room-stall-at-the-football-game Feldman? Despite having done her drinking with friends, she still tried to suggest that someone spiked her drink, resulting in her having loud (semi-public) sex in the stall with a random stranger.
I got pretty smashed one time because I was recovering from a stomach virus and had no appetite. I drank 3 glasses of wine within a 6 hour period and ended up… yup, vomiting up my guts and nearly unconscious. But I didn’t get raped because (duh):
1) I was absolutely gross and it’s the rare man that’s that desperate. Really. Any sane guy is like: “Eww! Back up, she’s a puker!” My husband thinks its funny if I’m a tipsy or even a bit wobbly, but really drunk is just like a sack of potatoes. A vomiting, drooling sack of potatoes. Total boner killer.
2) It was 10 pm and everybody around me was still relatively sober (I usually was home by midnight).
3) *ding, ding, ding* I was out with a group of my closest male and female friends and they didn’t just abandon me, they took me to a doctor. And they would have chased off anybody how would have hit on me in that state.
Am I showing what a square I am, when I ask: What in the world are women doing going home with strange men, anyway? Why don’t their friends intervene?
During my Captain SaveAHo days in college, I protected/cleaned up after more than a few binge-drinking wenches in the hopes they would see what a NICE guy I was and dump their bad boy fuck buddies for me.
Take it from me, guys. Never, under any circumstances, treat any woman with anything other than polite contempt.
As someone who occasionally engages in irresponsible drinking (i.e. getting drunk), I have seen quite a few girls at parties and the like make out with multiple guys on one night, actively seek sex if they don’t pass out and can speak quasi-coherently, and generally act like perfect sluts only to brush it off the next morning, blushing with a wry smile, “God, I was so drunk last night! I can’t remember anything.”
Admittedly, I act more slutty than usual when drunk, and I justify my behaviour with the liquor coursing through my veins. But, most people can usually tell when they’re on their way to “too much” and they solider on anyway because they’re making the choice to be drunk, and feel good, and be totally uninhibited. I’ve never slept with anyone who wasn’t my boyfriend after drinking, even if I was WAY out of it, because alcohol can never turn you into another person, only facilitate choices you ALREADY want to make.
It’s so much easier to deflect responsibility. I’m sure that most women who claim that they have been drugged are lying in perfect understanding of the fact. It’s not denial, it’s lying. They just don’t want to make the uncomfortable admission that they are in fact sluts at heart.
Also, yes, exactly what Chuck said.
Black and German:
What in the world are women doing going home with strange men, anyway? Why don’t their friends intervene?
Kay, so, I was at a party a few weeks ago (I’m in undergrad, which should explain it), and my girlfriend and I who were equal amounts of drunk were getting hit on by these two guys. We both have boyfriends. So, I quickly deflected the guy’s advances, whilst she was actively flirting back. So, in light of her impaired judgment, I step in and drunkenly muster, “Julie, can you come to the bathroom with me?” grabbing her by the arm. She resists, and ends up making out with the guy — a Russian brute, named Igor. (Normally I like Russian guys, but he wasn’t… attractive.)
Point being: sometimes women just enjoy being sluts and having an excuse for it.
I’ve known 4 women who have made this “confession”.
I subsequently found 2 of them were falsely using it as a covering explanation for why they had a child. Another had willingly engaged in sex, then turned it into a forcible rape story a few years later. The fourth hadn’t been raped at all – she was just mad at her father for leaving her mother (she initially claimed her father had sexually molested her). Most of this they told me freely as I came to know them better.
I think most of it is said for dramatic effect, and as you say, to find out how easily they can manipulate you. None turned out to be anything like the women they initially presented themselves as.
Oh, okay. I guess I’m just a prude that way. The idea of having sex with a stranger has never appealed to me at all, no matter how drunk I got. It’s great to be square!
I don’t know if you have done a topic on this, but my friends and I have noticed a trend in women where they tell a guy early on in a date that they have been raped in the past.
False rape accusations, inventing lies, and exaggerating stories is terrible, but being actually raped is ACTUALLY very terrible.
I’ve never been raped, but someone once sexually assaulted me on a train. It didn’t escalate too far, because I ended up getting away (the train had finally pulled into a stop, and I made a crazed dash for the doors). I distinctly remember shouting at him, “Can you please STOP!” And he responded in the calmest, manner, “No.” It was one of the most vulnerable, helpless moments I’ve ever had in my life. I don’t think I’m permanently “damaged” by it in any sense, but it did affect me strongly in that I never took my safety for granted again.
I don’t think I’m permanently “damaged” by it in any sense, but it did affect me strongly in that I never took my safety for granted again.
Sounds like he did you a backhanded favor.
A lot of this is cultural, though.
Where I come from people don’t really meet other people in bars. It’s more group dating. The girls get a group together and the guys get a group together and they go out dancing or something. Everybody knows each other, everybody knows who’s with who, etc. There’s a lot of self-policing within the group. Any guy or girl caught acting up immediately gets removed and replaced.
And often we’re out at local fests and parties where even our parents and older relatives are present. It’s a totally different kind of scene.
Playing devil’s advocate for this little scenerio, that’s like saying people shouldn’t go to parties, clubs, etc because of the danger of getting beaten up or shot at.
GX,
Perhaps I’m overstepping here, but Jz only said that it’s “sloppy scholarly work” and misinformation. I didn’t get the impression that he disagreed only because it didn’t affect him or it isn’t what he wanted to read. I guess he simply doesn’t agree with it.
But I agree that he needs to post why he thinks the information is wrong.
——————————-
Anyway, my parents have always taught me and my sisters to be careful with my drink when we’re out at a club/party and to not put it down. Now while I now understand that date rape drink spiking isn’t as prevalent as people say, I don’t see anything wrong with being careful.
With that being said I see your overall point and agree with you on multiple counts.
Mr. M,
To be fair, I was a 17 year old girl reading a book on a train, wearing a tasteful dress. It’s not that far-fetched to think I felt snug and safe and comfortable.
Sofia –
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t claim to point a finger at you and say it was all your fault (via demeanor, dress, etc) for receiving unwanted sexual advances from a random person on a train.
What I am saying, however, is that this instance seems to have instilled a sense of caution regarding surrounding environment in you. This is contrary to my observations that women are oblivious to most things (mileage may vary for this statement). Sooooo, it is a good thing to be aware of your surroundings.
Awareness of one’s surroundings is absolutely the most crucial element in personal safety. Feminists would call this “blaming the victim.” I call it “not becomming a victim in the first place.”
Honest, spiritually-aware women will tell you a woman’s nature is dark, perverse, sadistic, masochistic, and driven to simultaneously tear down all men she subconsciously percieves as weak and willingly submit to brutal, sociopathic men. Look at images of the bloody and monstrous Hindu goddess Kali and you will discover a woman’s true nature. The very few women who conquer that part of themselves are truly exceptional. The majority who are not are whores for humanity’s darkest sins.
Renee-
Playing devil’s advocate for this little scenerio, that’s like saying people shouldn’t go to parties, clubs, etc because of the danger of getting beaten up or shot at.
Welcome to life, where your level of safety is in your and only your hands. If you can’t accept the risk in a party/club, then stay away from them. If you can accept that level of risk, feel free to enjoy.
The problem is that most people can try to think of risk in a binary state: “There is risk (OMG BAD!!! AVOID!!!)” or “There is no risk (We can do this now)”. The problem is the latter doesn’t exist. There is always risk, the question is how much.
Renee-
“Playing devil’s advocate for this little scenerio, that’s like saying people shouldn’t go to parties, clubs, etc because of the danger of getting beaten up or shot at.”
Welcome to life, where your level of safety is in your and only your hands. If you can’t accept the risk in a party/club, then stay away from them. If you can accept that level of risk, feel free to enjoy.
The problem is that most people think of risk in a binary state: “There is risk (OMG BAD!!! AVOID!!!)” or “There is no risk (We can do this now)”. The problem is the latter doesn’t exist. There is always risk, the question is how much.
p.s. I promise to learn how to use the preview function *sheepish smile*
p.p.s. If someone would be so kind as to inform me how to quote, I’d appreciate that.
Or you can use the editor I button.
I went to clubs/parties/bars but only as a group. And we had the rule that we all came and left together, even if someone had to be dragged off screaming. No exceptions. If you met someone you were interested in you’d get their number and meet up somewhere on another day. Sober.
Or dragged off like a sack of potatoes. LOL.
“jz December 3, 2009 at 1:23 pm
@Ferdinand,
1) roofies………it happens. I have personally (professionally) cared for a girl who was sedated from a party drink.”
I agree with literally everything on this website, but this subject hit too close to home when some asshole date raped my younger sister. She ended up unconscious in the emergency and we found out about it the day after.
This shit isn’t funny. I understand how annoying it is that some chicks run around making bullshit claims, but it’s not always the case.
Sign of the times.
True story. Three chicks gave a mate roofies got him out of the club and when he was out of it undressed him and stole his belongings, leaving him naked in a dark alley.
He doesn’t know if he had sex but he hopes he did.
“He doesn’t know if he had sex but he hopes he did”
ha…ha…ha…
good one…I’m still laughing..
I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that these were middle-class white chicks. They’re so desperate for some kind of victim cred that they’re willing to just invent it. People who have known real adversity don’t do this.
We have a winner!
“Victim cred”… good term.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=910ZFGkhuQ0
As I read the post, one phrase stuck out.
“Young women appear to be displacing their anxieties…”
Now if that doesn’t sum up the gender (and this story) quite nicely, I don’t know what does.
guys, “jz” is just the cuckold apologist “anony” from roissy’s. check the gravatar’s.
also, check the attitude, the “i don’t have to exercise common sense because i’m a medical professional” high horse, and etc.
Anyone see this highly unlikely story of date rape in Thailand?
Sounds a lot like backdoor cuckoldry to me. The hot wife wanted some swinging extramarital action with the Frenchmen, the husband went along with it, then later on they decided to attribute the whole experience to date rape.
I thought everybody was familiar with this research. It was released months ago and was in all the Aussie papers. I may be wrong (since I don’t watch public TV) but the alarmists seem to have shut up about drink spiking, at least in Australia.
Tarl,
Just curious, but why is the story so unlikely to you? If it applies to their memory then I can see what you mean, but if not, then what leads you to think that it was “backdoor cuckoldry”?
I’m not saying the couple is telling the truth but I won’t say that they’re lying either because I don’t know.
Hey, these days, anything can happen….
@Welmer,
How, exactly, have i been an “apologist” for cuckoldry? Please be specific.
Why are you addressing me? I never wrote anything of the sort.
Hey, Avinguda Diagonal is right. It is anony, the avatar’s are generated for the e-mail adress.
Busted.
sorry Welmer. My bad.
to the other two, How am I “busted?” How have I been an “apologist” for cuckoldry?
From here:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/cuckoldry-vs-butt-rape/
No prob. You just had me wondering whether I had a blackout or something for a minute there.
@Gx1080,
and how is that “apologizing” for cuckoldry? I realize AD wrote that, but I sense you are agreeing and piling on.
@jz
You are right, it isn’t apologizing. Is not even recognizing that the problem even exist.
@Gx1080,
Well, I think if you read again, I referred to it as an “uncodified crime”, even in that short segment.
So you are anony. Thanks for admiting it.
@Gx1080,
Is that a problem for you? not sure what I am “admitting” to.
Not really. Is just that, given your past comments in Roissy’s blog, you shouldn’t hope to be taken seriously in here.
Here we go again.
Don’t be stupid. The whole point of MANDATORY paternity testing is NOT to be “insulting”.
The mandatory test would be no more insulting than the mandatory drug tests I had to take before NCAA track meets.
Analogy:
“Why insult (1 – n)% of my teammates to find the n% who use drugs to enhance their performance?”
Thought experiment.
Who are the only people who would make this complaint? Hmm?
Because you claim that an “insult” to women is somehow worse than
* 18 years of financial, temporal, and emotional support for a kid who turns out not to be yours;
* a face that a man has grown to love, yet that reminds him of heart-rending lies and deceit every time he looks at it;
* the loss of opportunity to have his own children.
You say that these things pale in comparison to an “insult” that’s … not even really an insult.
And you have the gall to deny that this is an apologia?
Really? “Probable cause” for running a routine test, amid to a battery of innumerable others?
Where is “probable cause” for testing for genetic abnormalities?
The law is an ass.
This is no different from “personal paranoias” about medical conditions.
Even from your utterly heartless standpoint, can you deny that it’s important for the “father” to know if his medical history is irrelevant to “his” kid?
Unlike feminists, I believe that both men and women have individual responsibilities.
If MPT is implemented on a wide enough scale – and the paternity tests are concurrent with other routine tests at the time of birth – the cost will fall to the mid-double-digits or lower.
Since you don’t like “wasteful tests”, I hope you also fervently disapprove of mammograms for women under 50. Or 55.
Even if those mammograms picked up terminal cancer at a rate of 2% (or, more likely, 4 to 15%, depending on social class).
I pay taxes too, hon.
how have I offended you??
I typed a longish comment, which was apparently swallowed by the wordpress machine.
Anony, you have taken the position that an imaginary “insult” somehow outweighs:
18+ years of financial, emotional, and physical support for a kid that turns out not to be that of the “father”;
the loss of the “father” ’s own reproductive capacity;
the neverending trauma of seeing a growing face that elicits BOTH the love of a long-term bond, AND the heart-rending reminder of life-breaking lies and deceit, every time the “father” sees it.
Yeah, all that is outweighed by an “insult” that’s not even an insult. And this isn’t an apologia? What is, then?
Here’s the bottom line: The whole point of the MANDATORY testing is so that it’s NOT “insulting” or “targeted”.
Analogy time: I was an NCAA athlete. We were all tested for performance-enhancing drug use.
Imagine if I’d complained: “Why insult (1 – n)% of all athletes to find the n% of us who are on drugs?”
What would the officials (justifiably) infer?
Yeah.
@epoxy,
please reread my comments.
Oh, and.
Number one, you don’t need “probable cause” for medical tests. Where is “probable cause” to screen fetuses for Down’s syndrome?
Number two, even if you are a heartless medical robot, don’t you think the “father” should be aware that his own family medical history is irrelevant to that of “his” child?
Number three, as for “wasteful” medical tests, do you also agree that women should avoid mammograms before they are in their mid-fifties?
Or even later, given that you think a test with a 2% hit rate (probably higher, but, for the sake of argument, let’s say it’s really 2%) is still “wasteful”? Would you still counsel women to avoid mammograms, and deride the mammograms as wasteful, if 2% of the women’s lives would be saved?
Number four; I pay lots of taxes, so I’m opening my wallet here, too. It’s not as though paternity tests are particularly expensive, esp. compared to the costs of other obstetric stuff.
@epoxy,
drug tests, screening for Down’s , mammograms, ………all I can say is that all analogies are incomplete. I think nova made some comments today at R. that fleshed out a better way to view the questions.
Thanks, now off to sleep for me.
Anony/jz HAS admitted in the past that she has cuckolded her husband. Roissy has even taken note of this, after seeing how heavily committed she is to opposing MPT – far more than any other woman here.
She just doesn’t want to get caught, nothing more.
This seems to be a case where the perceived danger is all out of proportion in comparison to the actual ones which matter (i.e. simply getting drunk and acting in certain ways).
Now, about the Telegraph article and the criticism. First of all, one study of 200 doesn’t necessarily prove much, and interpretations of a study coming from a newspaper aren’t always credible. What is most probably true, however, is that as a risk factor “drink spiking” is something very marginal and not something to be worried about.
The points made by the poster are not that preposterous, IMO.
jz:
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t count for much. How do you know it was roofies, not some other factor? Was it by making proper tests or did you just believe her explanation?
You should take a look at the article. There was a study. “Earlier this year, Australian researchers found that nont one of 97 young men and women admitted to hospital over 19 months to two Perth hospital claiming to have had their drinks spiked, had in fact been drugged. ”
What exactly has been false information?
You should’t believe anything you read, especially from a blog. This isn’t a peer reviewed academic publication, it serves another purpose. And where do you actually see first-rate scholarly work in regular (printed) magazines by journalists?
I do agree in that sense that I would personally prefer more sciencey stuff and rigorous scholarly evidence at The Spearhead, but I don’t expect or require it here. Take the postings as discussion starters and try to dispute the claims made if they seem wrong to you.
Addenum: Humans are bad at estimating real levels of danger, which easily leads to media panics and general hysteria. One example: the likelihood of dying from a terrorist attack.
Cognitive biases, such as availability heuristic don’t help.
I served on a jury for a Roofies case about 5 years back, and I voted to convict. But this is the first time in a couple of years that I’ve heard the subject brought up, so I’ll agree with Jabherwochie that this is not common at all.
On reflection, this is just not practical. You’d have to dose the woman, and hope you don’t get seen doing it by anybody (her friends, bar staff, or anybody else that was around) who could talk to the police or the DA afterwards. Then you have to get her someplace away from potential witnesses BEFORE the drug takes effect, wait for the woman to pass out, then have your way with her.
If she was willing to leave with you anyways, why bother with Roofies?
Hey, if anyone wants to (or has the time to) put together an original, well-researched academic paper and give it to me for free I’ll happily publish it.
Any takers?
The Great Walrus, Andrea Dworkin, was drugged and raped.
You can read her account of how she was drugged and had her blubbery carcass hoisted by crane through a window into her hotel room, where two male staff members of the hotel stripped her naked, and took turns having their way with her tight, succulent flesh:
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/other/rape.html
Must be true, because women never lie… especially not feminists, and never, ever, ever would a feminist woman fib, not even a little, about something as serious as rape!
I’d like to also note, that Rooffies, by being made into this great and scary epedemic by feminists and PC whiteknight manginas, only exacerbated a tiny, miniscule situation into a slightly less tiny one by putting the idea into the brains of hundreds of thousands of horny college men. Who knew about and was capable of administering a Roofie before all of this; a extemely small sample of intelligent sociopathic rapists. Now, every guy in the world has heard about it. Its common knowledge. And despite this common knowledge, I was in a Fraternity that was kicked off the campus of UGA for 5 years, known as a death sentence, because we partied too hard (flaming couches out windows) and fought too often (I take some of the credit/blame for that). Not ever, ever, ever, did I hear about us, or any rival Fraternity drugging girls in some way. Its inconceivable that guys in large groups, with promising futures, easy access to women already, and a lot to loose would collude or cover up a member using a date rape drug. I promise you, a “punch bowl party” was more than enough to loosen women up. I’ll say it again, anyone who has the lack of morals, knowledge, and cleverness to successfully use a date rape drug, would not need one. Thats the type of guys girls go for anyways. I’m sure it happens, and as someone who struggled to get laid by playing by the rules in my youth, I would be first in line to beat the shit of any rapist. I don’t believe in robbing people of anything, especially the sanctity of their bodies, but fear mongering is not the answer. It paints men as villians, and only increases the chances of some desperate slub to justify such actions if he thinks everyone else is doing it.
“I agree with literally everything on this website, but this subject hit too close to home when some asshole date raped my younger sister. She ended up unconscious in the emergency and we found out about it the day after.
This shit isn’t funny. I understand how annoying it is that some chicks run around making bullshit claims, but it’s not always the case.”
No one is making a laughing matter out of this, and no one is justifying it. But just like you would be excused from a jury at a rape trial because of your past history, I wil excuse you here. Your jusitfied emotional outrage over a hideous crime to a sibling prevents you from having a clear, rational perspective on this. It is understandable. If a mother has a young son who go’s into the shed and shoots himself in the head while playing with daddies shotgun, I can understand why she would be anti-gun. It doesn’t mean I agree with her. What is more dangerous, guns or Roofies. I don’t agree with fear mongering about guns, but everyone needs to know gun safety, and I will not accept fear mongering about Roofies, but all people should use common sense when experiencing the night life: go in groups or at least the buddy system, discuss if you plan on going home with someone with your group before the drinking begins, don’t let guys buy you your drinks (its little more than prostitution in my book anyways) if you don’t know the guy. Here’s a better idea ladies, why don’t you date and fuck guys you know, you know, the nice guys who give you a ride home when your drunk, or that guy you’ve known forever but you put in the friend zone. Get over your need for mystery and danger. The more you know a guy, yes the more flaws become apparent. Let me tell you something, that guy in the bar telling you all the right things, with that mysterious confidence, he has even bigger flaws then the guys you personally know. That guy is a player and does not care about you. He is making you feel good to get in your panties. Is that all it takes? Having your ego stroked the right way? For the sex that is supposed to be more savvy socially, women sure do get played a lot. The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Getting into your car during rush hour is far more dangerous than the prospects of getting raped, mugged, or murdered (combined). Are you scared when you get into your car? Should you still put on the seat belt? Lets learn to see past the propaganda for its real intent, the demonization of men.
And JZ-
I asked if you where a girl. You didn’t answer me. I felt bad, because I thought I had jumped the gun. Seems you are actually female. Why do you hide behind a gender neutral facade. Scared? We have strong females here, Black and German, Renee, Kis (where has she been btw), who we tear into just as we would any guy when we disagree with them, and they remain strong, confident women, and independent thinkers. They are not ashamed of being women. They see its strength and its weaknesses. It is not my place to feel pride for them, as they are their own grown independent thinkers, but I do feel pride for any women who comes here, agrees with what is logical to them, and debates what is not, but stands firm in their womenhood. Why are you ashamed of your feminine nature? I will easily admit the failings of masculinity, even if I don’t bring them up as we generally celibrate masculinity here, but I don’t hide from the darkside of masculinity either?
@Jabherwochie
She isn’t ashamed of being a woman. She just not wanted us to know that she’s one of the Feminist cunts that go to Roissy’s blog to bitch high and loud (and that secretly want him to fuck them until they beg for mercy).
In words of the guy in his previous take to cuckholding:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/meet-the-real-biggest-losers/
And really, both the Nice Guys (TM) and the bona fide players want to get in their panties. The only difference is that the players are honest about it instead of being a beggar for vag. And the player don’t stroke egos, they deflat egos with teasing so they can willigly sumbit to them, all the way, with their panties wet.
“And really, both the Nice Guys (TM) and the bona fide players want to get in their panties. The only difference is that the players are honest about it instead of being a beggar for vag. And the player don’t stroke egos, they deflat egos with teasing so they can willigly sumbit to them, all the way, with their panties wet.”
I agree. I was a nice guy, and feel shitty about being convinced that it was a noble pursuit (convinced by women, feminist, and manginas). I don’t lie that it was done to get pussy, but in my case, I am/was honestly an empathtic, or at least sympathetic person, so being nice seemed, well, noble. I realize players put women in their place, and I’m no PUA, but I’ve got some (emphasis on some) game, but isn’t that an over simplification. Isn’t it a dance of putting them in their place while at the same time complimenting them, ie. stroking their egos. Sorta, “You ain’t all that, but damn you got a phat ass. I don’t think you could cut it as my boo, but you’re so fine, I’ll def’ently give ya a chance.” Don’t know why I went into black talk there. When I think OP, original players, I think black people. (Call me racist, but black culture does have things to teach us, or white kids wouldn’t emulate it so often.)
Damn. I hope I didn’t just start another race debate. Lets drop it. We’ll save that again for a few months down the road when we’re bored.
When some dumb bitch gets stupefied drunk, it’s not an excuse to slip her the meat. They are only part of the problem.
Another part is the Wii-tard Brandon Generation of boy-childs who don’t know how to use a lawnmower – either because their 4th step-dad never got around to teaching them, or they don’t cut grass on Guitar Hero.
Yes. The blame lies mainly with the Date Rape Industry. America no longer produces a fucking thing – except lawsuits over once cut and dried matters.
LOL. That’s because players (or playas) is a typical “black term”. I think of a black guy every time, too, even though most of the players I’ve known have been white. Stereotypes stick in our heads.
Ummm, of course “nice guys” want to get in our pants. That’s just human nature. My husband wants to get in my pants, too. Isn’t that sort of the whole point? I think I’d be insulted if he DIDN’T want to get in my pants.
Or am I missing something here?
Anyway, the goal should be to meet a quality man. And it’s damn near impossible to evaluate quality when you’re drunk, high, or horny. Sober up, calm down, and meet him for coffee. Is that really so impossible?
I used to tell guys that they’d have to meet my dad, uncle, male cousin, whatever before we could go out on a real date. Even if it wasn’t true, although it often was. That weeds out the players and the psychos right darn quick. All you can see is the cloud of dust they leave behind; they depend on anonymity. And they sure as heck don’t want a large, angry black man knowing what they look like and where they live.
Interestingly, the LTR-types actually looked more interested when I said this. Nothing like some protected poontang to pique their interest.
My dad used to act really stern and ask for ID, and where his parents live, and things. He’d write down the guy’s address and telephone number, “Just in case.” and make a comment like, “You better have her back here by 11 pm. I’ll be waiting.” Then he’d call the number and call the parents just to make sure everything was legit. And then he’d really wait up and meet us at the door.
It’s like a jerk-filter and it’s a safety precaution, as well. My dad got especially strict about this after a girl in our neighborhood was found dead in a car accident one morning. Her parents had known she was at a party “somewhere with somebody” but didn’t know when she’d be home, or anything. They just went to bed. She was alive in the car for hours before she eventually bled to death.
I have been slipped a rooffie and would never have known if my husband hadn’t been there to carry my comatose body back to our hotel room. It is NOTHING like being very drunk. When you are very drunk you may black out, and you may be stumbling but you are not unable to move, and the nights events while blurry do come back to you.
It was a horrifying experience – more for my husband then myself. Though I would not have been in that bar in Russia alone – if I had been there is no way I would have had any knowledge of what had transpired. So while I’m certainly in the camp of it does happen and WE do watch OUR drinks now, and we’ve cut out the habit of seeking out shadier places when we travel I agree that being rooffied is an excuse for bad behavior for many women.
There is no way that I would have (If I’d been alive) been able to say who my perps were if I hadn’t been rescued. My husband had gone to the WC and I was being carried out of the bar when the group of football players from Australia we had been talking to intervened.
So yes it happens, but like all false rape claims false reports not only hurt the men that are victims of them, but also the women and men who are true victims.
If you encounter a women who cannot move – she may well have been rooffied. If she’s slobbery drunk and acting in a slutty manner she has NOT been rooffied. Again my husbands recounting of the nights events was that I was quite literally completely asleep, after 3 drinks within 6 hours.
The bit that you are missing is that many (most?) young women are actively in denial of this. They don’t think of nice guys as being sexual objects, so they assume the nice guys aren’t interested in sex; emotionally, this is not particularly advanced from the “I can’t see you so you must not be able to see me” thought process of small children, and reflects and inability to see the world from the perspective of another. That you do not recognize that this is possible (let alone common) speaks volumes about you–the people that are naturally talented at something (in this case, empathy) are most easily recognized by their difficulty in understanding that other people are mostly bad at it.
“Though I would not have been in that bar in Russia alone…”
Russia is a totally unique animal. Lots of new oil money, lots of corruption, lots of potential problems. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in the US, but I would be even more careful when outside the States, period, be it Mexico, China, or even an Anglo country like Australia. Criminals and sociopaths realize people out of their element are more vulnerable. Doesn’t matter where you go. But Russia, I’d imagine Russia is pretty fucking shady in the cities.
“–the people that are naturally talented at something (in this case, empathy) are most easily recognized by their difficulty in understanding that other people are mostly bad at it.”
Interesting.
My mother is sympathetic, by not empathetic. She can’t sense what other people are feeling, but when it is obvious, she is very sympatheitic to their needs. So if someone is empathetic, able to sense others emotional states, they would naturally assume other people can do this as well. Makes sense. If I can “hear”, you should be able to “hear”. But, when an empathetic person senses anothers emotional state, often, from what I understand and from personal experience, the empathetic person will feel similiar to the other (obviously not as intense). They will actually draw from the others emotional state. Under that logic, if a triad of people interact, one is sad, one is empathetic, and one is a sociopath, the empathizer should be able to “feel” the sadness of the sad person, and also “feel” the absence of “empathatic sadness” in the sociopath, thereby deducing (or inducing, I can never keep those straight) that the sociopath lacks empathy. Absent of a group context however, empathizers would assume their ability is universal. With much experience however with people in groups, it should become obvious that not all people are empathizers.
Random thought over.
Yeah, I’m very empathetic and it frustrates me to no end that other people aren’t. A lot of the male-female difficulties would melt overnight if more people could see the world through the others’ eyes.
That said, I’m empathetic but not very sympathetic. So, sometimes when I hear a sad story or read something really terrible on one of these boards I can imagine the person’s pain so strongly that it’ll become real to me and I’ll actually cry. But while I’m crying, I’m still frustrated because I think, “Wow. That really sucked. Now get your act together and move on.” Sometimes I want to reach through the computer screen, smack them over the head, and shout in their face, “Get up and get over it, damn it!” I’m empathetic to their pain, but I don’t let them wallow in it, because I don’t allow myself to wallow in it. I’m more action-oriented: What can we do to improve the situation?, What’s the plan now?, How will we change things to prevent this injustice in the future? I guess that’s kind of a male reaction, but I’m a former engineer, so there’s obviously a strong bit of “masculine mind” in my head.
If you’re highly empathetic AND sympathetic, then you’re probably a psychological mess and stuck in a permanent depression.
I’m the same way with my kids. If they hurt themselves, I’ll give them a hug and say, “Wow, that must have hurt.” But then I’ll put them back on their feet, give them a pat on the back, and send them off to play again. It did hurt. I can even sometimes feel the physical pain in my own body. But they still have to suck it up and go play eventually.
I see other mothers react in the opposite manner. They see their children get hurt and then blow it all out of proportion. They heap sympathy on sympathy and nearly smother their kids in it. Sometimes the kids start crying AFTER they are comforted because they think, “If Mommy’s so upset, then it must have been really bad!”
My father’s really empathetic (I have it from him) and so is my husband, but it’s a problem sometimes. Like when your wife is pregnant or sick.
So is Game about empathy? Understanding what other people are thinking and feeling and using that knowledge to make yourself more attractive to them?
Totally went off on a tangent here, but it’s an interesting topic…
Sometimes I think maybe women are so flippant about divorcing their husbands and taking their children because they lack empathy. They aren’t able to understand the pain it would cause. At least, I hope that’s the reason. If they are able to understand it and do it anyway, then they’re just…
That is an interesting spin on Game I had not considered. I think you are correct that Game is about empathy in that those who do not feel empathy will have great difficulty learning and practicing game because they don’t have access to an efficient feedback measure.
At the opposite end, those who feel empathy and sympathy may have great Game, but seem unlikely to share it since they (1) probably don’t recognize what it’s like not to have it, and (2) are unlikely to become PUAs because of the negative feeling they’ll get from the repeated break-ups.
This would tend to profile players as thus being people who have empathy (or have learned appropriate behaviors from those who do) but not sympathy (and also not an attachment to traditional morals).
That’s actually a fairly insightful assertion that seems to match my other observations.
To Jabherwockie:
I will not pretend to be a particularly empathetic individual, but in my experience it is a lot harder to keep track of two different people’s emotions at once when they aren’t convergent. I think you are correct that an empathetic person could probably notice this sort of dichotomy, but may not understand its significance. In particular, it seems like it would be largely indistinguishable from empathy without sympathy, which is what people tend to assert in others much of the time regardless of circumstances.
Firepower whined:
Heard that on TV did you?
Here is the Internet Version:
http://www.wholetruth.net/downloads/pressReleases/02262008%20Surf%20Talk.pdf
Yeah, like those fishermen who expected Exxon to pay money just because the Valdez killed all the fish they made their living from!
In the old days, proles would shut-the-f–up and take it up the but while screaming thank you!
Well the Supreme Court showed everybody what’s what, and put those uppity proles in their place!
Of course, Firepower, if we actually removed the sham courts then people would KNOW how to get justice wouldn’t they? And I have a feeling you wouldn’t like that, would you?
This would tend to profile players as thus being people who have empathy (or have learned appropriate behaviors from those who do) but not sympathy (and also not an attachment to traditional morals).
Yeah, that’s how I see it. I’ve always been good at manipulating/convincing people (both men and women) because I know what they’re thinking and feeling, but I think it’s not okay to do so for evil purposes. I also try not to use that information to hurt them in an argument.
So, for instance, I sometimes tease my husband or dress attractively to keep him sexually attracted to me (a win for both of us and good for our marriage). But I don’t use sex to try to convince him to take my side in a disagreement. That’s not fair. The discussion should be about the topic at hand.
Some things just aren’t right. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you SHOULD. But I guess I’m just a square like that, LOL. Other people don’t make such distinctions.
Interestingly, both of my children are highly empathetic, as well. They frequently comment on things that are being unsaid or suppressed. It’s uncanny — even a bit creepy — to see it in such a young child, though.
My son is also popular everywhere he goes, despite being rather small and quiet and even a bit weird, so it’s interesting to watch an empath being created. Natural game in preschool.
“And really, both the Nice Guys (TM) and the bona fide players want to get in their panties. The only difference is that the players are honest about it instead of being a beggar for vag. And the player don’t stroke egos, they deflat egos with teasing so they can willigly sumbit to them, all the way, with their panties wet.”
could the players start wearing their shirts unbuttoned a bit, a gold-plated chain necklace and shoes without socks so that we can more easily identify them?
“When some dumb bitch gets stupefied drunk, it’s not an excuse to slip her the meat. They are only part of the problem.
Another part is the Wii-tard Brandon Generation of boy-childs who don’t know how to use a lawnmower – either because their 4th step-dad never got around to teaching them, or they don’t cut grass on Guitar Hero.
Yes. The blame lies mainly with the Date Rape Industry. America no longer produces a fucking thing – except lawsuits over once cut and dried matters.”
Brilliance, especially that last part.
@anonkage
Hey, I just pointed the facts. Whatever you like them or not is not my problem.
And Game is about empathy, mainly because for attracting women you need to KNOW women and not just an idealized, pedestalized version of them. How they think, how they act, what they feel(this one is important, since women are beings of emotions), what makes a male atractive to them. Also, knowing women helps to not get majorly screwed for them.
@Gx1080
empathy has absolutely nothing to do with game and game nothing to do with empathy. girls get crushed by game and the manipulative tendencies it harnesses. game exploits girls. you boys carry on, I do not wish to argue and you are all entittled to live your lives the way that best suits your own design, but please don’t lie. game, more often than not, can turn out to be very cruel and hurtful.
Anoukange –
It’s all about perspective.
You have to realize that there are now 2-3 generations of men who have experienced massive failure in the dating/mating market between puberty and the late 20s around 30 while they watch equally yoked female cohorts doing what they do these days. That leads to an adjustment like Game, designed to even the playing field a bit. If women want to see game as being hurtful for women, I can tell you that millions of men have been hurt and scarred by the behaviors of young women over the past 2-3 generations in the US. Millions.
Haven’t seen much of zed lately, either.
Things that make you go hmm….
Well, I’m still getting plenty of hits from Vancouver Island. That’s all I can say about it.
Dude, get a dictionary:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/empathy
Knowing the feelings of someone, empathy, is one thing, actaully caring for them is another very different.
@Gx1080
I AM talking of knowing the feelings of someone, not necessarily caring for them. If certain men had known better women in their lifetime then they would have a more balanced understanding and knowing of the fundamentals of not only women’s emotions, but human emotions. Nobody likes to play the fool. And game is all about taking the caring element out of meeting someone. It is about voiding out the value of a person and then trying to fuck them or use them. And you all call this “seduction”. All game does is coat an already complicated thing in thick, man-made, un-natural plastic.
And, IF cows flew, we would all have to go around wearing hats with big wide brims – but they don’t, so we don’t.
Yeah, IF things were different …,
well, then things would be different. But they aren’t, so we have to deal with the way things are, not the way they aren’t.
LOL, in a dating world filled will fake faces (makeup), fake boobs, and fake personalities, you will be hard-pressed to convince many men that there is any caring element at all on the side of women when it comes to “meeting someone.”
In the mating game, the deck is incredibly stacked in favor of women. Guys might be willing to cut them a bit of slack if –
a) they were honest enough to admit that, and
b) showed any shred of caring, concern, or one iota of human compassion for men’s side of the issue.
None of that is true for most men, however, so they do the next best thing. Since the deck is stacked in favor of women, “Game” is the equivalent of counting cards and taking some direct constructive action to try to offset the advantage of the house percentage.
Sooner or later, anoukange, men are going to force women to realize the abysmal quality to which their sex has sunk. They are going to have to stop treating men like inhuman robots who must follow the instructions of their “mistresses” and are not allowed to have emotions. They are going to have to stop treating men like anvils they can beat on from now until eternity and remain unaffected by the whole thing.
Game is like chemotherapy to the cancer of feminism. The treatment is gruesome, but it would not be necessary if there were no disease.
That’s fine and good Zed. I am for human rights, whether for women or men. I disaprove of any mistreatment of either men or women. I would aim to help protect the weak. If the players who drip in game could just stick to playing the bitches and not the nice girls, that would be great, thanks. Sluts deserve sluts. Quality deserves quality. I am not attacking or criticizing men who are at the core, decent, and use aspects of game to improve their relations with women, monkeys, sheep, whatever.
The use of roofies, too much alcohol and lying are forms of “game” that tell me that dude’s got no “game” what so ever.
There is a huge difference between being kind and decent, and being weak, anoukange. Kindness and decency are the values and characteristics which make a civilization “civil” and viable. When those are treated as weaknesses and exploited in order to use someone, eventually they will go away.
My perception is that guys who are using game are sticking it to the bitches and not the nice girls. Girls who are running “GirlGame” have no legitimate grounds for complaint because they are gaming every bit as much as the men are. I disbelieve the whole “roofie” myth, but I have never heard of anyone even claiming that someone slipped a roofie into their lemonade at a church social.
If women truly wanted men to to be nice to them, they would reward men for being nice – not hold them in contempt as they do. If kind and decent men were rewarded for being kind and decent, you would see hordes of kind and decent men.
Your platitudes are wasted on men who been jerked around too many times by women claiming to be nice girls who are actually nothing of the sort. It takes more than a claim to make something a reality. In order to be considered a “nice girl” a woman actually has to be, you know, “nice.” She cannot be an absolutely selfish, self-centered, bitch and expect to be treated concern and consideration which she considers beneath her royal self to reciprocate.
The thread’s dead, but I wanted to comment on this line:
“The use of roofies, too much alcohol and lying are forms of “game” that tell me that dude’s got no “game” what so ever.”
This is of a piece with a classic feminist technique – conflating criminal activities (in this case drugging someone and raping them) with legal actions that feminists find distasteful (in this case, talking women into the sack).
We see the same thing when a woman wrecks her ex-boyfriend’s car or something like that, as revenge for infidelity or being dumped. I have noted to women I know that infidelity is not a crime and all I’ve gotten is “well it SHOULD be illegal and it’s my right to revenge!” (They apparently don’t realize that revenge only cements his conviction that he doesn’t want to be with her.)
Lying is a form of flirting, social negotiation countenances harmless dishonesty (but not malicious dishonesty). As the thread discussed, “too much alcohol” is a choice of each person, and is often used as an excuse to do things you don’t want to be held responsible for. The use of roofies has nothing to do with game and everything to do with criminals.
Feminist fishwrappers are full of ridiculous, hyperbolic statements like “when men ogle women, it’s like being raped.” It’s trying to blur all the issues at hand into a miasma of emotional rage from which no sense or logic can be extracted.