This entry is shorter then what I typically file for The Spearhead, but this bit of blog-meat was too juicy to ignore.
Fellow Spearhead contributors Roissy and Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech, as well as Roissysphere futurist blogger The Fifth Horseman, have written before on emerging sexbot technology and how it will reshape the sexual landscape. In a peanut’s shell, sexbots will give men a realistic alternative to sex with women, reducing the dependence the former have on the latter, causing women’s sexual market value to drop considerably. Given that one of the goals of Western feminism is to protect female market value by restricting supply (see the blatantly unconstitutional International Marriage Broker Regulation Act, for instance), it’s only reasonable that they wouldn’t stand idly by while the sexbot insurrection marched on. In fact, Roissy wrote this just over a year ago on the prospect of a feminist utopia:
- Ban on Porn, Sexbot Research, and Foreign Brides
Porn, the coming sexbot revolution (and it will be a revolution greater than the advent of the Pill, mark my words), and sweet foreign ass all achieve, directly and indirectly, to chip away at female sexual market power. More sexual choice for men means less mating choice prerogative for women. Feminists loathe the idea of men having freedom of choice in the sexual market.
Now, via The Anti-Feminist – Secular Anti-Feminism – Feminism as Islam, we’ve learned that cleft-chinned chickblogger and Feministing founder/executive editor Jessica Valenti doesn’t like Real Dolls, doesn’t like them at all:
I’m not anti-sex toy. I am anti-treating plastic dolls as if they were real women and wishing real women were like plastic dolls. And pimping out your doll seems creepy to me in how similar it is to pimping out an actual woman.
Additionally, Valenti devoted part of a chapter in her skank-apologist tome The Purity Myth: How America’s Obsession with Virginity is Hurting Young Women to plastic sex dolls, castigating the men who use them with clichéd shaming language:
It’s a sad state of affairs when some men would rather form intimate “relationships” with plastic dolls that can’t reciprocate attention, engage in conversation, or do anything, really, than take the time to get to know actual women. (With pesky things like opinions and personalities, who wants to bother?)
The thought that the only reason sex dolls exist is to help men get off, with the concept of “relationships” not playing a role at all, doesn’t occur to the highly educated but ultimately ignorant Valenti – because it would require acknowledging that men and women are different. She also fails to consider that the primary market for sex dolls is men who women don’t want anyway. To paraphrase a Whiskeyism, this is evidence that feminists HATE HATE HATE beta males and anything that empowers them.
Of course, Miss Valenti isn’t calling for the outright banning of sexbots yet, but just you wait. As Schopenbecq writes at The Anti-Feminist:
Advances in sex dolls and robotics will mean that men could become sexually independent of women within just 10 or 20 years time. My theory clearly predicts that feminists will increasingly be demanding legislation against virtual sex and the sale of realistic sex dolls and androids.
When feminists in the U.K. agitated for so-called “extreme pornography” to be outlawed by the government (which it was, in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act of 2008), their primary argument was that the pornography encouraged violence against women, despite evidence to the contrary. When IMBRA was passed into law in the U.S. by an alliance of feminists and social conservatives, the primary argument the former used to defend it was to protect foreign women from violence inflicted on them by American men, despite the lack of evidence proving or disproving this factoid. I estimate that when the sexbot opposition organizes, feminists will use the exact same arguments that they used before, in spite of any actual facts. In fact, two years ago, Feministing reported on Charlie Sheen’s destruction of his Real Doll, describing the event as “disturbing.” Going by feminist logic, it’s not a terribly huge leap from an incident like that to claiming that sexbots turn undersexed betas and omegas into doppelgängers of Jack the Ripper. Anything to keep scabs (alternatives to Western women) from lowering the wages (sexual market value) of unionized workers (Western women).
But before you start chanting for Valenti’s head, have some compassion, my friends. If you looked like this…
…would you really want to have to compete with this?
Image courtesy of The Anti-Feminist
Didn’t think so.
_______________________________________________________
Ferdinand Bardamu is holding out for the sexbot models that can cook, clean, and sing arias. He blogs at In Mala Fide. You can follow him on Twitter here.
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{ 225 comments… read them below or add one }
It’ll be a sad state of affairs when women can have a vibrating latex box-buzzer under their pillow, but men can’t have a sex alternative. If SexBots are dehumanizing to women, then dildos are dehumanizing to men. Not only does the dildo objectify males as a sex object, it implies that a male’s only valuable part is his penis. At least the SexBot has a whole body . . .
As for violence against women, that’s a non-sequitur. Fuck dolls dehumanize women, therefore fuck dolls will cause men to be violent against women.
Mark my words, as soon as you can buy a SexBot with World-Of-Warcraft money, those things will be FLYING off the shelf.
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Oh, I don’t know; maybe I’ll be interested when a sex bot can fake an orgasm.
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Sexbots are not parasitic, opinionated, untrustworthy emotional cunts who will screw you over just because their emotions said so..
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I don’t think sex bots will alter the sexual marketplace in any way. People will always want love and acceptance of other human beings who they value. I see sexbots as more competing with titty rags, porn sites and strip clubs as direct erotic stimulation which is a different kind of activity really.
I also think Ms. Valenti is pretty cute, so my opinion is suspect I guess.
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Well I hope sexbots do undermine women’s sexual hold over men. That would be nothing but a good thing. All this cow dung about wanting the intimacy from a ‘real’ woman is just so much shit. You can not get from a woman that which she does not possess. You will get more humanity from a plastic doll than you would ever get from one of these degenerate creatures called women.
Think about it – the doll would never age. If you think a 170 lb short woman who is approaching the spherical has anything sexual about her then I feel sorry for you. Remember thats the way they all end up. Their natural state is gluttony and greed.
Actually women incredibly overrate their cunts. They think they have a magic orifice that will enchant men. Well it isn’t, it is just a hole that stinks like a rotting fish.
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“All this cow dung about wanting the intimacy from a ‘real’ woman is just so much shit. You can not get from a woman that which she does not possess.”
Easy.
Trust me there are women out their you can have real intimacy with. I have had it with one woman. So they exist. And intimacy is something real. I know your anger is real to and you must have been mistreated by a large number of women, including your mother. I never had any closeness to my mother. So you have closed yourself off to women. Which is probably a good thing, for now. But eventually you may find yourself with someone who loves you and you can be intimate with and accepts everything about you including even the things you are ashamed of.
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The appeal of sex dolls is not that they gratify without complaint. The appeal is that they fulfill the only useful purpose a typical woman fulfills in a man’s life, without any of the drama.
Women are being made redundant.
If you’re offended ladies, I’m not sorry. I am sorry that 90% of your gender leaped into the toilet and pulled the handle.
Love and emotional intimacy is something that I have also enjoyed with women in the past. Unfortunately, most women run from love and emotional intimacy as fast as they can so they can get nailed by thugs instead.
Harden your heart, boys, and get better lovin’ through technology.
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I think it’s more like porn on steroids. Porn already is having an impact on the sex market, because there are a good number of men who are opting out of the market because porn is ubiquitous, available and easy. Beyond those men, there are other men who are in relationships who are using porn and are therefore less interested in committing, less interested in sex in their relationships and so on. Sex bots are going to expand all of these trends, essentially, blowing them up because the experience will be rather well beyond the simple viewing of images. So I expect that it will have a substantial impact, just as the explosion of internet porn had a huge impact beginning in the late 1990s.
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Women will just up their game (or wear shorter skirts).
There will be no new emergence of ‘ladiness’ or new form of womanhood in response to this. They’ll still think it’s all a sexual battle, when really, guys are crying out for a change in attitude.
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As much as I, personally, find the idea of sexbots strange and not particularly enticing, I have to admit that the typical bottle-blond young American girl doesn’t provide a more favorable alternative. In fact, one could say that young American women want nothing more than to be extremely expensive, high-maintenance and autonomous sexbots rather than human beings (e.g. Paris Hilton).
It is really too sad that things have come to this. I am just barely old enough to remember a time when women still retained some humanity. Perhaps, during that brief moment of clarity before the 90s wiped away the last vestige of decency from society, I was given enough hope to actually make an effort to change things eventually. I don’t think I ever would have bothered with The Spearhead if I thought women were irredeemable.
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“It’s a sad state of affairs when some men would rather form intimate “relationships†with plastic dolls that can’t reciprocate attention, engage in conversation, or do anything, really, than take the time to get to know actual women. (With pesky things like opinions and personalities, who wants to bother?)”
I wonder if Ms Valenti has even a fraction of a clue how we arrived at this “sad state of affairs”.
Obviously not.
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lol @ the WoW money for sexbots comment. made my day.
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If Feminists were truly against the idea of technology ruining the natural human experience of sex – they would also be against the Female equivalent of a sex doll – dildos.
Sex dolls are “bad” because they give men unrealistic expectations.
But a vibrating, 9 inch, ribbed, electronic penis does not?
The only way that Feminists could fairly denounce sex dolls is if they denounced dildos as well, and I don’t think that is going to happen.
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Advocatus Diaboli November 23, 2009 at 4:52 am
” Sexbots are not parasitic, opinionated, untrustworthy emotional cunts who will screw you over just because their emotions said so..”
Wait for the upgrade.
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Sexbots are not parasitic, opinionated, untrustworthy emotional cunts who will screw you over just because their emotions said so..
Wait for the upgrade.
The upgrade will probably run off of Windows Vista, and come with a number of UAC prompts. “Are you sure you would like to commit this sexual act?” For the tenth time, YESSS!!!
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Max:
If you click the Feministing links, there’s a bit with Valenti complaining about people making this comparison, because “women don’t refer to their vibrators as their ‘boyfriends’”. Then where did the term “battery operated boyfriend” come from?
Also, second Marquis’ LOL at the WoW comment.
Kevin K:
Love is the one thing other humans can provide that a sexbot can’t. As TFH is fond of saying, sexbots will force Western women to learn how to love again.
Welmer:
Look on the bright side, man. The sexbots will force Western women to become more amiable.
Deborah:
Well of course not. Feminists oppose any sort of sexual option for men, but gladly push for every option to be open to women.
I think that the future belongs to androids. Particularly female androids.
This will free women from the tyranny and oppression of the patriarchy.
The next step, though, is artificial human reproduction.
Then, we won’t have to deal with women at all.
This will make our world better for both men and women.
Seems to me that men are beginning to understand that women do not want to be women anymore. So, we have to create our own women using our best technology.
Maybe it is true that feminism has been particularly good for men.
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Ironically, as much as SexDolls creep me out (Dolls both male and female scare me – the more realistic – the creepier they are), they could actually accomplish some good in society if they were cheap and ubiquitous. Sex Dolls could even solve some of the social challenges that Feminists supposedly care about.
With an easily obtained, inanimate sexual outlet made available:
Rape crime would decrease
The number of STDs would decrease
Unplanned pregnancy would decrease
Adultery would decrease
Sex Slave Traffiking would decrease
Pimping and prostitution would decrease
The viruses guys get on their computers from looking at porn would decrease
Am I wrong?
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Anyone else thinking of “Weird Science?”
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Between a vicious, sadisrical cunt and a sexbot, the choice isn’t too hard. The pioneers will be the Japanese, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8TkVqnlj3A
It just needs a battery. Sad, but if women don’t want to be ladies, what we can do? Given that women usually have a, quoting Roissy, Purple Saguaro (have you seen the things, they have lights for fuck sake), it would be fair that we get sexbots (and the first Edward Cullen one will fly off the shelves faster than free money). But Feminazis don’t care about fairness, so it will an underground industry. I pity the guys that get one rented.
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Speaking as a woman, I would rather look like the woman than the doll, even if it gets me less action. (The doll is pretty as an art form, but is not what I would want to look like.)
I am not against sexbots, though. Technological progress is a natural part of life, even if I’m not interested in using this particular piece of technology. If *all* the straight men want to replace their women with robots, I guess us women will have to turn to each other, lol. I’m bi, so I wouldn’t mind.
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But wait, I thought Rape Is A Crime Of Violence, equivalent to mugging (but with more body fluids), not a sex crime?
Something tells me that the Latino immigrants who commit a lot of the attacks in my area, based on what I read in the local paper’s crime log, aren’t going to be using SexBots to divert their energies.
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“Speaking as a woman, I would rather look like the woman than the doll, even if it gets me less action. (The doll is pretty as an art form, but is not what I would want to look like.)”
/takes a deep breath.
/screeches
RRRRRRAAAAAAACCCISSSSSSTTTT!!!!!
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“It’s a sad state of affairs when some men would rather form intimate “relationships†with plastic dolls that can’t reciprocate attention, engage in conversation, or do anything, really, than take the time to get to know actual women. (With pesky things like opinions and personalities, who wants to bother?)”
It’s a sad state of affairs when some women would rather form intimate relationships with men’s wallets…bundles of cash that can’t reciprocate attention, engage in conversation, or do anything, really. Easier to do this than to love and commit to a man.
The sexbot is for men what the divorce lawyer and chilimony is for women. An alternative means of getting one’s biological needs met.
@ Welmer,
“The sexbots will force Western women to become more amiable.”
I doubt it. They’ll be nasty until the bitter end, because they’ll be able to arrest their lowering value in the sexual marketplace by intervening with non-market means.
Thus, rather than respond to market pressure to be nicer and have some integrity…difficult tasks to be sure…they’ll continue to use the coercive power of government to intervene in the market–in other words, regulation–to artificially inflate their market value.
Sex bots may very well make the fembots nastier
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It is untrue that sexbots have no feelings. If the programming is done properly, I see no reason why women could not be imitated via technology. After all, feelings and emotions are electrical impulses running through a brain, very much like a computer.
If humans can be programmed to “feel”, then there must also be a way to program a CPU to do the same.
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I don’t see sexbots changing the balance of power in the sexual marketplace because:
1. The fact that men argue that sexbots would change the sexual marketplace means that sexbots would have no effect. The only reason to argue is if you care about the outcome, which means that you prefer a real woman to sexbot, but are hoping that other men prefer the sexbot, which would give you more power. Unfortunately, this is the way virtually all men think. The only men who prefer the sexbot are omegas, and the sexual marketplace has already accounted for their absence.
2. Even if there were large numbers of betas who prefer sexbots, in a culture where women have economic independence and are not forced to be monogamous, women prefer being alone and celibate or sharing an alpha, to sex with betas. A reduction in numbers of betas in the sexual marketplace would delight women, not cause women to be more desirous of the remaining betas.
3. Once a woman receives a commitment from a man, even an alpha, her sexual attraction for him drops. If he now uses a sexbot as a substitute, she won’t notice the difference because she desires sex from him less.
4. The only way sexbots could change the sexual marketplace is if alphas prefer sexbots, but betas prefer women. This would remove alphas from the sexual marketplace and elevate the status of betas. Not likely.
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“The viruses guys get on their computers from looking at porn would decrease”
Speaking as someone of experience, eh Deborah?
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Sexbots? No thanks. I’d rather be celibate.
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@Wilbur Simonson
Fine points, but over the long run women would eventually be hurt because they tend to want to settle down and marry betas—who will arguaby become largely uninterested the more techonologically advanced the sexbots become.
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Deborah,
I do think you are wrong in three of those:
Rape crime would decrease
Sex Slave Traffiking would decrease
Pimping and prostitution would decrease
Rape is about power and control, not sex. I don’t think a SexBot would satisfy a person inclined to rape, as there isn’t the emotional elements of fear and loss of control of the person being raped, that gets the rapist off.
Really, the main issue in all 3 of those is power and control. Sex Dolls just don’t satisfy in those areas.
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Rape is about power and control, not sex.
Does anyone actually believe this anymore?
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More anti-sexbot propaganda:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/4510/futurama-anti-robot-propaganda
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Amen Jessica Valenti.
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Steezer said
“Sexbots? No thanks. I’d rather be celibate.”
People say that now because they are thinking of things like the japanese robots in Ferdinand’s pictures. They’re still very fake and robot-like.
But think of the sexbots in the movie “AI.” Or if you haven’t seen that (and I dont’ blame you), just think of an actual warm, perfect, lovely 19-year-old human girl. With real flesh, real human pheremones, real hair, etc. She’s unbelievably attractive, she’s completely indistinguishable from a real 19 year old, she’s being sweet and even a bit coy, she’s in your room, and she’s dying to have sex with you.
It will happen, and probably sooner than people realize.
100 years ago there was no intercontinental jet travel, no television, no computers, no internet, no nuclear weapons, no genetic manipulation, I could go on.
If you have never masturbated to porn on the internet, then I believe you that you would never use a sexbot. Because your computer is already acting as a primitive sexbot. Otherwise, it’s just a failure of the imagination to look at the fake Japanese dolls here, assume that’s the way they will always be, and declare “Not me! I’m better than that!”
E. Stephen Berkimer said
Rape is about power and control, not sex.
This is a feminist canard that has wormed its way into the public consciousness. Rape is about using power and control to get sex. Sex is still the end goal. If rape were only about power and control, why does the rapist bother with sex at all?
There are some very thorough and articulate refutations of your assertion somewhere nearby on the internet but I can’t remember where… can someone help me out here and link to them for Mr. Berkimer?
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Oh shit… that Futurama clip is priceless.
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If rape isn’t about control, then what is it about?
Rape is complete submission to someone’s sexual demands, whether you are female or not.
Sex is involved but rape only occurs if a man or a woman is completely submissive.
The rapist, whether it be a woman or a man, relies fully on the ability to control that person.
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Kristin,
If rape isn’t about sex, and only about power/control, then why are the victims of rape typically women the ages of 20-30, instead of women 50-70?
The latter group would definitely be easier to over power and control. Thoughts?
(Don’t recall the source for these stats so you’ll have to take my word for it).
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Women (not sure about men in this case) but typically more youthful, more ‘appealing’ and attractive at these ages.
Yes, women and men in their 50′s-70′s may be easier to physically control, but there is more sexual ‘appeal’ to younger crowds.
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“Rape is about power and control, not sex. I don’t think a SexBot would satisfy a person inclined to rape, as there isn’t the emotional elements of fear and loss of control of the person being raped, that gets the rapist off.
Really, the main issue in all 3 of those is power and control. Sex Dolls just don’t satisfy in those areas.”
Rape is about power and control only in the way that the power and control allows someone to have sex. Don’t be dense. Do you think guys getting all the poon-tang they want from attractive women become rapists? The few guys who are good with women and still rape are sociopaths, and they make up a very small percent of all rapes. In fact, its been shown that access to porn reduces the amount of rapes. How would that be if rape is about power and control. I’m not saying power and control doesn’t have anything to do with it ever, but the power and control is just a sexual stimulator for some rapist, like many women like to be dominated sexually, but the underlying catalyst is still sex. Sex is one of our strongest biological drives, only less than food, water, air, and maybe shelter. The desire for power and control, while prevelent in most people, hardly compares to the fundamental desires mentioned above. Time to deprogram from the Feminatrix.
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Finally.
It takes a Japanese
to create an Asian female with nice skin
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Kristin –
Women (not sure about men in this case) but typically more youthful, more ‘appealing’ and attractive at these ages.
Yes, women and men in their 50’s-70’s may be easier to physically control, but there is more sexual ‘appeal’ to younger crowds.
So – sex is a factor then? One might even take a “big leap” and assume its more of a factor than control/power.
Also, jabherwochie adds a few points.
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” Kristin November 23, 2009 at 11:07 am
If rape isn’t about control, then what is it about?
Rape is complete submission to someone’s sexual demands, whether you are female or not.
Sex is involved but rape only occurs if a man or a woman is completely submissive.
The rapist, whether it be a woman or a man, relies fully on the ability to control that person.”
Rape is about fulfilling a biological directive through force. It is fundamentally, at its core, about sex. Just as force is used to steal food, money, drugs, etc., it is not about using the force, it is about the food, money, drugs, etc. How does this shit not compute with common sense. Are the ignorant masses so easily brainwashed? Is this the level of stupidity the MRA movement is going to have to break through?!
“Rape is about power and control.”
Yeah sure, and robbing a bank is all about wearing a mask and holding a gun. Please.
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Cherry 2000 is the definitive sexbot movie. The male character is in search of a new body for the sexbot’s behaviorial chip. It’s actually a hilarious film about a future America where men negotiate a sex-for-the-evening contract with women when they go to a pick-up bar. In the end the male lead picks Melanie Griffith over the Cherry sexbot. I guess Hollywood wouldn’t let them do otherwise.
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Let me solve all this sexbot, porn, rape, and dating shit with one single act of the legislative branch of the government.
Legalize prostitution.
Prohibition on alchohol created a criminal underworld.
Prohibition on prostitutes creates a sexual underworld.
Which one do you think is worse, when they stopped people from doing consuming a unnecessary chemical, or when they stop people from fulfilling an overwhelming biological drive.
I hate Feminists. I hate So-Cons. I hate PC liberal pussies. Give me my whores.
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@Kristin
Replace sex/rape here…
…with another crime:
So, you’re gonna claim robbery isn’t about money but control? Heck, by that logic, all crime is about control. Control is so generic a concept, it applies to every action involving an exchange between humans. How is that supposed to diagnose the true nature of rape unless you want to deny that there’s an inherent imbalance of supply and demand in sexual exchange in human societies?
And, most hypocritical of all, even if rape were reducible to control (of a sexual resource), how are humans (or any creature) supposed to be able to acquire any resource they need without using some control mechanism (say courting/seduction instead of rape)?
You can bullshit all you want with this feminist canard, but trying to reduce rape to mere control is Feminists’ blind, womanly, and primitive urge to place controls around men’s sexual desire to make the sexual market safe for themselves (i.e. cleansed of betas whom, as Whiskey says, they HATE HATE HATE).
Any man can get sex for $30, but sex for money (another exchange feminists love to despise, trying to frame hookers as “victims” even though they are the ones getting paid) is just as disturbing to women as the idea of sexbots since it undercuts women‘s control of the sexual market. Men want conquest in sex, and paying for it doesn’t involve conquest.
No act of control is attempted just for the heck of it. It is always to get a result, to claim a resource.
Stop playing dense mind games around the word control.
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I don’t buy the argument that sex bots could have any meaningful impact on the sexual marketplace. Its effect will actually be lower than that of porn.
First, there’s a concept called the “uncanny valley” that shows that people have a natural aversion to those objects or “beings” that look eerily similar to humans but don’t quite have that solidifying quality that humans have. People find androids and near-human robots creepy looking. So the attraction to sex bots won’t be that high or sustainable for men.
Second, men value sex with a woman because of the implication that she chose him. There is a social factor involved that is clearly not present in sexbot/human sex. Just as porn is satisfying on a physiological level, it doesn’t compete with sex in satisfying our psychological needs.
Third, porn has a larger impact on male behavior than sexbots ever will because of the variety available. Men won’t sit in their bedrooms all day long while sexbots do all things sexual and possibly even serve them and do house cleaning. Men will still want the real thing and satiate their sexual needs only occasionally with a sexbot.
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Steven Pinker delivers the definitive beat down to those who think rape is primarily about power and control in his book The Blank Slate. Well worth looking at.
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I didn’t claim robbery and money weren’t about control.
I claimed rape was about control.
Lol. I’m sorry to cause such mind games. Those of course, were my intentions.
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“If the programming is done properly, I see no reason why women could not be imitated via technology.”
Since all this programming is going to be done by Japanese software engineers, I think I’ll wait a few years after the first one comes out before I buy mine. Being an engineer myself, I remember all too well how that programmers view women.
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So when animals rape is it about control Kristin?
You are pathetic. No mind games here, just cognitive disnonence that someone can be as stupid as you.
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@Kristin-
And do you even know what an anology is?
What was your SAT score you cunt?
Jesus Chirst.
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I didn’t even say that!
Animals, robberies? These are things I didn’t even bring up.
Cognitive disnonence? This is hilarious.
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I’m in 4th year chem. engineering.
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Submit to the “rape”of your feeble logic, and you might actually enjoy it.
We brought those things up to make a point. Not only do you not understand the point, you can’t even comprehend the message apparently.
My IQ is 140. You really wanna throw around credentials? You are book smart. I am creative. You have a good memory. I have good problem solving skills. You think in words. I think in pictures. Your degree doesn’t make you smart, it makes you studious. Sit down, and shut the fuck up, and learn from real thinkers, not people who spout off other shit people told them.
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And your deflecting. Scared?
Engage me if you can hang with a male mind.
I’ll be sitting right here, ready to shoot holes in your faulty logic and pathetic debate skills.
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@Kristin
Just how dense — or, more accurately, hypocritical and corrupt — are you to look reality in the face and deny it — and give us your phoney lulz?
ALL human crimes are about CONTROL, in case you haven’t noticed. Just as all LAWS are about CONTROL, to regulate human behavior, humans’ access to resources they universally need.
So when a rape perpetrator and a robber is brought before a judge, what are we supposed to do? Pretend that the former is NOT about sex and the latter is NOT about money, and accuse the perps of attempting to CONTROL?
Have you seen any crimes like a bunch of men attempting to control the color of all leaves in America so that they turn blue? Have you seen any crime report that there’s a widespread tendency among men to subjugate boa snakes?
Why do you think human beings perpetrate crime? Just for the thrill of “control”?
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Where are you? Laughing out loud and making shit up about mind games still?
Aaaah, is my male aggression throwing you off? Can’t think clear under pressure.
Wanna debate neuro chemical processes? Maybe you’ll feel safer on your own turf?
What type of husband do you think you’ll get making all that money your about to rake in? You think your gonna get someone making more than you, who still has a good personality, or maybe you just want a kitchen bitch? Great job choice. That one will scare off just about every guy who isn’t a academic elite, and you won’t be able to deal with that person because they’ll know they are smarter than you, and will have to bring it up to compensate for you making more money. You’ve painted yourself in a corner. Typical Feminist strategy. Cut off your nose to spite your face.
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“…while sexbots do all things sexual and possibly even serve them and do house cleaning.”
Wait, wait, wait. A sexbot will do me, clean my house, AND cook me a nice dinner, all the while being programmed to be feminine and non-bitchy? WHERE THE FUCK DO I SIGN UP? LOL.
I don’t think women understand how true this is: “If women didn’t have a pussy, men would put a bounty of them.”
Women (and men) used to laugh at gamers. Now, gaming generates more revenue than sporting events or movies. They’re not laughing much anymore. The same will happen with the Marilyn Monrobots.
What is absolutely hilarious is that women fail to see what is happening right before their faces. Younger men are saying “A piece of machinery is better than dealing with a woman” (be it internet porn, gaming, or, in the future, sexbots).
Remember ladies, if a man just wants sex, he can make do with a sexbot. Know why women can’t make do with a vibrator? They don’t generate money or status.
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Master Dogen,
You’re right. Didn’t think of it along those terms. But I still maintain that the power and control are just as important as the sex.
Regardless, sociopaths who rape aren’t likely to see these bots as an outlet, IMO. The emotional aspect of a rape just won’t be there.
But I’d like to see the links. If anyone has them, please post em.
Thanks.
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As TFH is fond of saying, sexbots will force Western women to learn how to love again.
To be clear, I think 3-D/VR/Hologram technologies will happen before (and be cheaper than) bots.
BUT, yes, Western women will be forced to learn how to make a man feel loved, because their looks will be devalued.
8s will be treated like 5s.
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A bit of embarrassing political naivete showing round here, Guys.
Sexbots will be outlawed. No question about it.
There is NO HOPE that these sexbots will be permitted to be produced – unless, that is, a powerful men’s lobby manages to overcome the opposition.
And, amongst other things, this means undermining the powers-that-be, as well as the global governmental powers-that-are-a-growing.
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Also, misandrists will have NO chance of banning any such technologies. They can’t even get strip clubs shut down, and this is far more private.
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Jabherwockie–
Agree with you on all counts re Kristin, but “thinking in pictures” is a characteristic of autism, and in fact is the title of Temple Grandin’s book on the subject written from personal experience.
Quit while you’re ahead.
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Chemical Engineering is just another normative euphemism in the sick, twisted power/control paradigm of institutionalized sexism. Atom rapist.
Oh, and the positive/negative thing. Racist.
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BTW, I am putting a date on the timing of this.
By 2020, these technologies (of which a software 3-D/Hologram system with a tactile interface will be the winner) will be sufficiently realistic enough that certain addiction thresholds will be crossed. This will cause a lot of men in middle and lower quintiles of the dating hierarchy to drift into a disengagement from dating, given that they are faced with a choice between a real 5 or 6 that expects the man to pay, vs. a VR 10 that is agreeable.
This, of course, even benefits alphas with Game, as the market position of all women in the 5-8 range has cratered.
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Sociopaths will always be a problem. Even a sociopath who is a king, Vlad the Impaler, will still be evil. A sociopath will never be satisfied. Give them a harem, and they’ll want the wives of the nobles under them (Caligula). Give them a torture chamber, and they’ll experiment ways of improving and extending the pain.
You know how to get rid of sociopaths. Prevent women from finding them attractive. Make women appreciate men with empathy and insecurity.
“But I still maintain that the power and control are just as important as the sex. ”
I’ll give you a feedback loop might get created, but the sex, or lack there of, will normally be the catalyst for someone becoming a rapist. And what about date rape, or rape of drunk girl? Are those about power too, or just scratching an itch. Have you ever tried not to scratch an itch? Now realize that for some people, outliers and such, that itch will feel like a hot poker against the skin.
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Lastly, let me add one final point :
Since these technologies will push up the appearance floor of what men find attractive in women…..
36 year old women will be uninteresting to even 55 year old men.
This moves the Wile E. Coyote moment for women, currently at age 34-36, a few years earlier.
Ponder that…
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“sestamibi November 23, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Jabherwockie–
Agree with you on all counts re Kristin, but “thinking in pictures†is a characteristic of autism, and in fact is the title of Temple Grandin’s book on the subject written from personal experience.
Quit while you’re ahead.”
I have Aspergers syndrome. Thinking in pictures is what allowed Einstein to understand relativity, its what allowed Tesla to figure out electomagnetism, its what allowed Newton to understand gravity. Its why I’m smarter than you, and can paint an exact portrait better than a camera that captures the transluecent nature of human flesh. Its why every college proffesor I ever engaged with was intimitaded by me. Words are weak. They are slippery and vague. You think two dimensionally, I think in 3D. On days I’m entertaining myself with my imagination, I even include smells and touch. I pity the normal mind.
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”””””’sestamibi November 23, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Jabherwockie–
Agree with you on all counts re Kristin, but “thinking in pictures†is a characteristic of autism, and in fact is the title of Temple Grandin’s book on the subject written from personal experience.
Quit while you’re ahead.
””””””””
Yea but aren’t autistics only good in one thing and why would someone be afraid of being called autistic?
Big woop.
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I actually don’t think in pictures as much as I used to growing up. I had to adjust my thought paradigm in order to interact in day to day life, but when I “zone out”, much to my wifes and friends annoyance, I’m seeing with my minds eye. Between that cognitive atrophy and my drug use, my abilities are not as strong as they should be. I blame the hell I went through, you know it as the education system, for not fostering my natural talents. I should be trying to cure cancer or something, not be a struggling artist with a 9 to 5.
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Being able to focus the mind and body like a laserbeam on one task foresaking all others is what makes you a winner in almost anything you choose to do.
”””” On days I’m entertaining myself with my imagination, I even include smells and touch. I pity the normal mind.”””””’
lol sometimes it sucks because very easy to view life in totality and realize limitations and it is like what is the point.
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Sorry about all the anger in this thread. Holidays man. They get to me I guess. I believe in stoicism. Just have a hard time adhering to it somedays.
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””””I should be trying to cure cancer or something, not be a struggling artist with a 9 to 5.””””
What?
You couldn’t envision how to retire and chill.
Wtf he he he
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Actually I guess retirement part comes from focusing on numbers which you may have to train that part a little. Simple math though.
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Holidays? Don’t celebrate ‘em. Makes life a lot simpler.
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Yeah, I’ve seen myself vagabonding around, but the end game is where it gets nasty. No health insurance, dying in the streets, etc. The movie was good except for the ending.
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Whatever one thinks of them, try first imagining waking up in the middle of the night feeling a little horny, and in the darkness finding something that has the same temperature, shape and consistency as a human body. On further exploration, you find that it is a mature female body, which has the same response to being touched as a human female. I wonder how many men would let the fact that they knew it to be a doll stop them from being further aroused (and we all know what that leads to)? I’m guessing 0 out of 10.
As for legalizing prostitution as a better alternative, that sounds a bit to me like ‘it’s better to rent a doll than own one’. No thanks.
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Thanks for covering my post guys. I hadn’t realised that there were several other MRAs keeping a close eye on sex technology developments and their impact upon the sexual market.
Just after I posted that story on my blog last night, I googled some more and came across an actual attempt by feminists to put forth leglisation BANNING ALL SEX BOTS. This appears to be currently in the works in Canada and judging from the article it looks likely to become law quite soon, please everybody read it :
http://iankerr.ca/content/view/656/145/
I posted the link to reddit.com/mensrights and it’s kicked up a real stink there. Although it is depressing news that feminists are already setting about banning sexbots, it’s also heartning that the men’s rights community looks likely to take this to heart and make a continuing stand against it.
The article gives the author’s e-mail address. I think it would be a good idea for every men’s rights supporter to send a (polite) message informing him that we are not going to take this lying down.
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I wish I had taken math a lot more seriously, but with it being taught out of context until much later in the education system, it bored the hell out of me. I saw it as a puzzle, but with no reward for solving it. No one told me the puzzles reward was a fundamental language for simplifying reality. I just thought they were useless mental exercises. Naive and stupid, I know, but no math teacher ever tried to relate it to real world applications until highschool, and by then I had an emotional bias against it. I should pick it up though. I like statistical analysis.
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@Fifth
“Also, misandrists will have NO chance of banning any such technologies. They can’t even get strip clubs shut down, and this is far more private.”
They’ll ban sexbots all right.
Strip clubs are harder to ban because a) they involve real women who want to engage in striptease and b) it is quite hard to ban consenting adults from doing things together.
Sexbots will be much easier to ban than, say, marijuana – which is easy to grow, easy to smuggle, easy to hide – but this hasn’t stopped the law from making both its sale and its use illegal.
Sexbots will also require complicated technologies and fairly sophisticated companies to produce them. These are easily targeted by law enforcement.
Furthermore, women will vote, en masse, for the banning of sexbots and they will be joined in this by numerous men – unless, as I mentioned above, a sufficiently powerful men’s lobby argues for their production.
At the moment, there is no such lobby.
Finally, in 20 years time, at the current rate of progress towards world government, it won’t be up to Americans to decide the issue.
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Harry,
No, this cannot be banned. Why aren’t they able to shut strip-clubs down?
How will they ban something that can be ordered online and shipped to your home (as a software package and some hardware interfaces like goggles and gloves, which would be used for other non-sexual video games as well)? All the parts used in the system will be used for other video Games, with only a fraction of the components be used for sexual purposes.
nVidia has a 3-D Goggle product for Gaming. This is used for games both sexual and non-sexual.
Check out the Microsoft Natal project. How will feminists ban that?
I think the problem with many MRAs is that they vastly overrate the strategic acumen of feminists, thereby psyching themselves and other MRAs out. Don’t let them psych you out.
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””””””Just after I posted that story on my blog last night, I googled some more and came across an actual attempt by feminists to put forth leglisation BANNING ALL SEX BOTS. This appears to be currently in the works in Canada and judging from the article it looks likely to become law quite soon, please everybody read it :
http://iankerr.ca/content/view/656/145/””””””’
Anything to make people face the real world but no suicide you little bastards ahahahaha
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Harry,
Another point for you to ponder :
You live in Britain, correct? What if they successfully ban 3-D/Hologram sex entertainment in Britain (unlikely, but hypothetically), but it is NOT banned in Spain, The Netherlands, Italy, Poland, and Romania?
What happens due to this intra-EU differential? How does the sexual market adapt to this arbitrage? What happens to the UK male labor force and tax base? What if some countries use this law to lure engineering/science workers out of the UK and into their countries? What about Muslims in the EU?
Now you see why it is not possible to cut off access to a technology, which is used for multiple video game purposes, of which only one is sexual.
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Let’s be honest though: A guy who attempts to have an actual emotional relationship with a sexbot or doll, as portrayed in the movie “Lars and the Real Girl”, is a goddamn weirdo. Yes, women can be capricious and tiresome. And while the quest to find a “good woman” can be a difficult task, a good woman provides a man with far greater benefits than a sexbot could offer.
But I agree that for merely sexual arousal, sexbots are indistinguishable from porn and sex toys owned by almost every woman; and thus, any condemnation is simply wrong.
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Now that’s just fucking unbelievable. Guess Harry’s right…
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OneSTDV,
It is not about emotion.
It is about the technology becoming addictive enough to the male brain that average men totally lose their libido for the average woman in the 4-7 range, making them unwilling to spring for dinners, diamonds, and bridezilla weddings that these women have come to expect.
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I really have no issues with sexbots (hey…it’s my homies), but my thoughts on the larger matter are more in line with (1) Nova and (2) Chuck.
That is all.
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Ever seen those middle-aged women with toy dogs? That’s pretty goddamn weird, too.
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That is, Nova’s and Chuck’s. Yep.
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I am pretty much in agreement with Nova and Ferdinand. I see Nova’s position as quite different than Chuck’s .
Chuck’s point about the uncanny valley is temporary, and will exist from about 2014 to 2020. Post-2020, the uncanny valley will have been crossed.
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@Fifth Horseman : In your question to Harry you actually explain one of the chief (in my opinion THE chief) motivations for the feminists global campaigns to introduce international sex laws.
There is not a chance in hell that sexbots could be legal in one EU country and not in another. Virtually all laws relating to the sex industry in Europe now originate from EU treaties that require all member states to implement. And these treaties are usually simply a case of feminist lobby groups telling the EU parliament what they would like banned or criminlized next.
Sexbots will (if allowed to) dramatically change the sexual market, eventually making women redundant as sexual partners. Lap dance clubs are simply not comparable. I would stake my life that within 10 years the United Nations will have introduced a binding convention banning them or at least drastically limiting their sale and use.
You’re right. East Germans risked getting shot a few decades ago, leaping across the Berlin wall just so that they could watch VHS porn (amongst other freedoms). Yep, if just one country allowed men to build private harems of fantasy sexbots, then there would be emigration in droves from every other land. Just look at the hordes of ex-pats in places like Thailand, there just for the cheap hookers. This would be on a different level. And this is why global feminist campaigns against sexbots will dwarf those currently waged against the likes of sexual tourism and prostitution.
Excellent points (angry?) Harry. I would suggest that this is such a crux issue for the future of men’s rights that we might need to think about forming a specific lobby group to fight our ground on it.
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Yep, if just one country allowed men to build private harems of fantasy sexbots, then there would be emigration in droves from every other land.
That is what I am saying.
And since when does the UN apply uniform standards? They are silent on the stonings of women in Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc. They will not be able to ban a country where prostitition is already legal (Germany, Thailand, etc.) from using this as a way to attract a lot of tourism and Expat money. Dubai is quite skilled at attracting all sorts of profitable Expats.
Plus, Switzerland does not comply to UN mandates. Neither does Taiwan or Israel.
In fact, the exodus of men out of the most misandric countries could accelerate.
Feminists can no longer keep this out of the global marketplace than the UAW could keep auto union jobs in Detroit.
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@Fifth
“You live in Britain, correct? What if they successfully ban 3-D/Hologram sex entertainment in Britain (unlikely, but hypothetically), but it is NOT banned in Spain, The Netherlands, Italy, Poland, and Romania?”
We are heading toward one Euro-government at a very rapid pace! And it won’t be long before all UK laws are made outside the UK.
Some 60-80% of laws applying to the UK are ALREADY made outside of the UK.
This is no exaggeration. Even UK politicians accept this. This is where we are today – and this is where the USA is heading too.
Hologram entertainment? Well, I don’t know about that. I was really only thinking about robots that looked like women, and that had usable sexual parts.
These will definitely be outlawed – UNLESS we stop world government AND a powerful men’s lobby forms.
Which is why whenever you guys are milling around the internet, ALWAYS try to mention a “men’s site” – even if you cannot actually post a link. For example, “The online Spearhead magazine is a great place to see news on this particular topic.”
IOW, always try to alert others to our area of cyberspace.
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These will definitely be outlawed – UNLESS we stop world government AND a powerful men’s lobby forms.
My friend, the UK government cannot even stop Sharia courts from operating in the UK. UK feminists will not utter a single word about Islamic misogyny operating in the UK itself. How will they get feminist laws to apply to the whole world equally?
Again, you are greatly overestimating the power of our enemies on a macro scale. How will Anglosphere feminists block the free sale of sex technologies in Dubai, Thailand, Brazil, and the Phillipines?
More likely, globalization causes a return to patriarchal trends. A patriarchal culture always displaces a feminist one over time (i.e. a few decades).
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@Harry
Actually forbiding technology to get to the masses is hard, if not impossible. Laws that are not able to be enforced in the real world aren’t new. A extreme case is the China Firewall:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/chinese-firewall
Which has more holes than the cheese:
http://knol.google.com/k/chris-maloney/circumventing-the-great-firewall-of/2axtcj9vjnsbi/2#
If there is a market for it, it will be pursued, legal or not.
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Can you imagine sexbot police busting into people’s houses in SWAT gear? Sadly, I can…
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How about a thread on the robots being created to do the dangerous jobs so men don’t die so much on the job?
I kinda think the forgotten men are worth a mention now and then. They are not going to be as popular as the guy who invents a sexbot but they do something so that men get to use the sexbots.
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Can you imagine sexbot police busting into people’s houses in SWAT gear? Sadly, I can…
Feminists would certainly LIKE to do this.
But there are too many homes, and too few remaining tax dollars to hire this many police. Also, they can’t prevent men from expating, if this becomes one more reason to.
Remember what I said about feminists getting too greedy and doing a fatal overreach.
Plus, won’t police also be doing this in their off hours?
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I tend to agree, but the overreach might end up being fatal in the literal sense for a number of men (already is, actually).
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All that needs to be done is develop a male sex-bot for women. If they’ll buy vibrators, they’ll certainly buy a big masculine pumping machine. End of resistance.
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Although sex bots are only a second best choice, they offer men a security that women in the flesh do not give (understatement..).
Although having sex with a robot will not appeal to many men, at first, they are the only way that men can now satisfy their sexual needs, other than the obvious “self-service”.
I think that men MUST consider now that women are lost to them: they have become a lethal weapon against men.
I would have never thought, in my youth, that men and women would become bitter enemies.
And worse, there is now a greater likelihood that this gender war may become a real war, with casualties and collateral damages.
There exists now a real possibility that men and women will cross swords. It may become very bloody and, of course, no civilization can resist that onslaught.
I would advise all young men to massively expatriate: if the system is starved due to lack of men, then we could return in 20-30 years time.
But one thing seems so certain to me is that the West is pretty much finished: we are witnessing its (slow) agony.
It’s unfortunate: such a nice civilization going down the tube.
I wonder what will replace our civ. if not the Muslim world.
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The minute they invent a Jared Padalecki sexbot, I’m putting in my order.
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The majority of rapes are of women between 18-30…when they’re most fertile and attractive. Rape is about psychos who can’t get laid. No power….just a violent release with women that ignore them otherwise. There’s a reason a 55 year old woman is rarely raped statistically….evolutionary reasons as well as aethetic reasons.
Feminist canard destroyed!
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While I am sympathetic to the goals of MRAs, and fully agree about the evils of feminism, I have to say that :
1) We have people on this thread claiming that world government with feminist laws is inevitable (i.e. even Muslim countries will be subdued by extreme feminism).
2) We have people claiming that we are about to have a violent war between men and women (with whiteknights/socialcons presumably siding with women).
Yet I don’t see MRAs doing a show of force via a demonstration of even 100 men in a major US city, in a tea party vein.
Anyone see a contradiction here? People who are about to be enslaved might, you know, lift a finger.
Sure protests are not the be all and end all, but it at least ups the visibility of the issue, and makes more men aware of what is happening to their rights.
So I see far too much ultra-overestimation of the power of feminists over humanity, given that 85% of humans still live in patriarchal societies that feminists are afraid to criticize.
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””””Remember what I said about feminists getting too greedy and doing a fatal overreach. ”””””””’
Yea ya kind of wonder why other countries don’t create utopias for men and recruit the best and brightest in certain field or recruit the divorced men in those fields giving them no extradition and the ability to transfer their children to that area.
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I THINK THIS STUFF IS BEING DRAFTED UP NOW.
YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME.
http://iankerr.ca/content/view/656/145/
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Are you surprised? Of course countries will try to ban them, because they are unhelpful for women, and the legislative agenda in the West is now female-centric.
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@Fith : The error you are making is in falsely assuming that there is any fundamental difference between feminism and Islam. Both feminism and Islam are sexual-economic trade unions that serve the fundamental needs of women.
Yea, Yea, beautiful young women get stoned to death for seducing other women’s husbands. You know what? Feminists would be happy to throw the first stone to these girl’s heads.
It’s one thing the UN being unable to dictate to a sovereign nation fighting for its survival and which is backed up with 400 billion dollars of American military hardware.
It is quite another thing for the UN to be able to force every government to pass standardized sex laws that criminalize the same things (such as sexbots), especially when muslim countries and also America, would likely to have the same, or stricter, laws anyway. One example of this is laws on child pornography which thanks to the UN, are now much the same in every country in the world (including Switzerland). You might think this is something very different to sex bots and in a sense that is true. Every civilised country would have laws against child pornography. But the definition of even what constitutes a child and what constitutes porn has always varied radically…until feminists in the UN standardized it (to the highest possible extent). Even in the Uk, only a few years ago newspapers were still publishing topless pictures of 16 year old girls to be gawped at over the family breakfast table. Holland actually showed 17 year old girls screwing on national late night television, every night! Now merely viewing such things will get the police flocking to your door and your ass raped in the prison showers whether you live in Peru, Japan or Switzerland. All thanks to the UN.
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@P-Rod
It seems that what I said is already beginning to happen.
They will be increasingly outlawed, UNLESS men do what I suggested.
@Fifth
I’d say that the feminists are doing fairly well, and if you look at how governments and busineses profit from feminism, you will surely also see that feminists are not the only ones pushing feminism.
There are huge powerful forces doing the very same.
Fifth, you need to read my website more.
You are not up to date with current trends – politically speaking.
@Fifth
“My friend, the UK government cannot even stop Sharia courts from operating in the UK”
Indeed. BUT THE MUSLIMS WILL ALSO OPPOSE SEXBOTS.
We **were** talking about sexbots, weren’t we?
LOL!
“How will Anglosphere feminists block the free sale of sex technologies in Dubai, Thailand, Brazil, and the Phillipines?”
Economic, financial, social and political pressure.
For example, …
“If you make sexbots, then we will not allow you to …. ”
and, perhaps,
“We will give support ONLY to your politicians who oppose sexbots … ”
In the end, the pressure of the “world government” will win.
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Indeed. BUT THE MUSLIMS WILL ALSO OPPOSE SEXBOTS
I am not so sure. They always go to a strip club right before a terrorist act. Concubines are a long Muslim tradition. Wealthy Muslim men will be the first in line as customers.
We **were** talking about sexbots, weren’t we?
Actually, I am talking about 3-D/VR Holograms, which are really going to originate from the video game industry, as I have stated multiple times. That technology will happen before robots do.
You are not up to date with current trends – politically speaking.
Actually, I was thinking the same regarding you. It is not possible to ban a technology like this, across the whole world, simultaneously.
If you are so up-to-date, why have none of the major political blogs linked to you?
In the end, the pressure of the “world government†will win.
You are overrating the power (and absence of double standards) of the UN by a huge margin. Why can’t the UN make Israel or Taiwan do their bidding?
This is too much paranoia. Really. Feminism is evil, but they are not within a decade of imposing feminism on the whole world via a world government.
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Harry said :
Some 60-80% of laws applying to the UK are ALREADY made outside of the UK.
Doesn’t this contradict a lot of what you are saying, since Mediterannean Europe and Eastern Europe are far more oriented towards traditional gender roles than the UK is?
If the whole EU has to fit to a weighted EU norm, feminism becomes less, not more. Thus, most of the EU would not vote to ban technologies from all 27 EU countries at once.
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‘Doesn’t this contradict a lot of what you are saying, since Mediterannean Europe and Eastern Europe are far more oriented towards traditional gender roles than the UK is?
If the whole EU has to fit to a weighted EU norm, feminism becomes less, not more. Thus, most of the EU would not vote to ban technologies from all 27 EU countries at once.’
I think you overestimate the power of democracy in the EU. Laws are made largely by a few lobby groups influencing unelected comissioners. Even Poland has to have its gay pride marches now.
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Yep. The decisions in the EU are made by Eurocrats in Brussels who often blatantly and proudly disregard such trivialities as public opinion, especially when such opinion comes from either (1) a “newer” member of the EU or (2) a non-core member of the EU (read: everyone other than Germany, France and Holland).
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One possible solution to world government is the Seasteading Institute. It might not seem realistic presently, but a lot of intelligent libertarians are seriously trying to work out a scheme of building independent communities in international waters.
I’m not sure if you’re aware of it already Harry but perhaps you could cover it on your blog sometime, this site as well. In fact all MRAs should give it their suport :
http://seasteading.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vira_9sKYkg
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If feminists are so powerful, why have they not enforced a law that says men cannot marry a woman less than 3 years younger than him?
Why haven’t they ensured that organs from male prisoners be harvested for women only?
Why haven’t they already enacted forced castration of all men accused of rape (including false rape)?
Sure, they WANT these things. So why haven’t they happened?
who often blatantly and proudly disregard such trivialities as public opinion,
Then come countries will cede from the EU eventually, OR citizens from such countries will move to the US orAustralia in great numbers.
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Sure, holographic/tactile video games with adult themes will be banned the world over, but Seasteading in international waters will be allowed and viable in the next decade (and be totally safe from Pirates or hostile navies), and remain free from feminism.
How can people miss such huge contradictions??
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tfh the laws have only recently begun to go at light speed but it is getting faster. See smoking and divorce laws.
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There is nothing that cannot be done to enslave men until men refuse to be slaves but if you look at hitory they always seem to be willing. Look at concentration camps. Did the people in them commit suicide rather than do forced labor for germany or japan or any other country or people that completely enslaved by another?
Of course not human want to live kept them alive working till their bodies gave out or they gave all they had for majority.
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People are overall weak and most can be made to do anything you want them to do.
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@fifth feminists will attempt do most of those things eventually. Nobody said feminists have omnipotent power. Feminists are and will attempt to ban sexbots before they become widely available. That’s not quite the same as chopping men’s dicks off for marrying women 3 years younger than themselves.
I never said Seasteading has any realistic chance of establishing its aims but at least they are trying and it deserves our support. Doubt if they will be choosing their first ocean settlements off the coast of Somalia though. 4/5ths of the planet is water you know.
Fair point about tactile holograms, not sure if you could curl up in bed with one though. And there have already been calls to ban 3d porn.
Please keep things rational and civil.
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TFH –
I’m more along the lines of, if you smashed Chuck’s and Nova’s views together.
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So – this paragraph got me thinking:
Whatever one thinks of them, try first imagining waking up in the middle of the night feeling a little horny, and in the darkness finding something that has the same temperature, shape and consistency as a human body. On further exploration, you find that it is a mature female body, which has the same response to being touched as a human female. I wonder how many men would let the fact that they knew it to be a doll stop them from being further aroused (and we all know what that leads to)? I’m guessing 0 out of 10.
Will these sexbots be able to “perform”? I guess I just assumed they would be flesh-like material, but inert. So if they could function as robots (you know, give a good bj/hj/cowgirl), that would probably up the ante quite a bit.
Then I got to thinking…what if it malfunctions and does something…bad… hmmm…
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Then you win the lawsuit lottery.
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None of these discussions take into consideration the current existence of “moe culture” in Japan. This is an entire subculture of men (and some women) who have given up on traditional dating and instead, form attachments with “two dimensional” characters (often based upon “Anime Characters”).
These people would be the primary ones who would be attracted to this technology. They would quickly get robots made to resemble their favorite characters. A Belldandy love doll would easily command a high price on the market from moe fans.
On another note, women have been using dildos and vibrators for years. There is a multi-million dollar market in sex toys for women. However, there is little available for men in that light. Sexual aids have been the panacea for women (lesbian and straight) seeking to free themselves from the sexual shackles placed on them by society.
However, with these new technologies, that is changing. Straight men are starting to become more concerned about their sexual needs outside of feminine involvement. It’s not just about stolen hand jobs in a dark room while watching porn; it’s about men deciding that they do not want to be controlled by their desires.
So you have to ask the “alleged feminists” what’s the real deal; is a man with control of his own sexuality really a threat to today’s modern feminism?
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I agree in principle with what Nova says, its just that I think there is natural limitation to it. Porn is pretty much free, well-hidden, and allows for variety of “women”.
Sex bots are likely expensive thereby limiting options. Since there is very little stimulative value gleaned from the bot – besides sexual pleasure – the bot will become a novelty. If a man wants a new bot, perhaps he can trade in an old one, but this practice will limited by the social stigma from it. If he wants to collect bots to provide variety, there will be very little discretion. “Look honey, check out Peter’s new Fem Bot” say the neighbors.
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Sestamibi
Jabherwockie–
“Agree with you on all counts re Kristin, but “thinking in pictures†is a characteristic of autism, and in fact is the title of Temple Grandin’s book on the subject written from personal experience.
Quit while you’re ahead.”
Jabherwockie beat me to it, but—
I am able to do this sometimes, not consistently, very rarely. My son can do this all the time and solve extremely complex puzzles without effort. It seems to me there was a man without whose inventions you may not even be expressing your thoughts anywhere near as effectively. He thought in pictures. His name was Tesla. How much did this man contribute with his abilities to envision entire pictures/concepts? Enough said….
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I dunno. It can be done pretty privately inside the house/flat with no-one knowing what you are doing, and they can be stored in closets and so on. I’m not sure that the stigma factor is an issue. You’re probably too young to remember this, Chuck, but before the rise of internet porn, dirty movies and magazines were sold in seedy shops or viewed in seedy theatres, but the stigma of going to these shops/theatres and being seen entering/leaving or inside them did not deter a LOT of men from going to them. The same holds true for red light districts in countries outside the US. I think that “stigma” is relative when orgasms are on the table.
But I also think it’s important to remember what TFH is saying — before we get functional sex bots, we’re going to get sexual VR over the computer with sensory prosthetic devices — virtual hookers and so on. That will be phase one, and will have none of the stigmatizing elements of sex bots that you mention. I expect it will be the “gateway drug” to “having sex” without actually having a human being next to you. Sex bots will come after that when they have been perfected to the point of actually being able to perform sex acts well — when that happens, I think you can throw the stigma out the window, really, especially if they work well and look authentic.
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I’d bet good money that women will sign up in droves to be virtual hookers (e.g. 2nd Life) for the online sex market as supersexy avatars. Hell, they’ll do it for free.
Pathetic, but there ya go.
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But I also think it’s important to remember what TFH is saying — before we get functional sex bots, we’re going to get sexual VR over the computer with sensory prosthetic devices — virtual hookers and so on.
Yes, thank you for noting what I am saying about the technology order of precedence.
It won’t be real women, though, it will be graphical 10+ creations with decent AI (see James Cameron’s ‘Avatar’ film on what level of graphics are now possible, and will migrate down the cost curve). Plus, such an interface would allow the man to choose between 10 different types of women on different days, while a robot would get old after a while.
All these technologies will be used for non-sexual video games as well (tennis, guitar hero, etc.), so would be all but impossible to ban.
Plus, this gets addictive to the male brain.
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Futurama called this out a while ago.
I call dibs on the first Lucy Liu bot.
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Yep, already happening in SL. The sheer number of women who voluntarily “work” as strippers and hookers in SL is staggering, really — it’s an eye opener about women for anyone who hasn’t taken the red pill yet.
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On the Illegalization of Sex Dolls:
The U.S. Dept. of Justice estimates that anywhere from 14,000 to 17,500 humans are trafficked illegally into the U.S. each year.
If up to 14,000 living, breathing human beings can sneak into the U.S. each year without the authorities noticing, would it really be that difficult to sneak Sex Dolls into the US? Or to manufacture them here in secret? Especially when they can be deflated, reassembled, etc?
Making something illegal doesn’t take it out of the hands of the citizens, it simply puts the object up for sale in the black market.
Which is why the government should legalize as many things as possible. If the object in debate isn’t taking away the life, liberty, and happiness of a US citizen – then it should be legal, legal, legal.
On one hand abortion takes the “life” – out of our American dream for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Yet sex dolls aren’t doing any harm to anyone, and already feminists are in the motions of making them illegal.
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Jabherwocki & Gunslinger–
You can try telling that to my son, who is much further down the spectrum from you.
Now, having said that, keep in mind that not only do I concur with all your positions completely, but also share your rage as well.
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A big part of the appeal of having sex with a woman isn’t just looking at her, it’s touching her. Full tactile realism is the ultimate goal and for that you probably need sexbots not VR.
I guess what I am saying is that VR wouldn’t seem to be an overwhelming improvement on porn, though it will have its audience.
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I personally doubt anyone will be able to ban sexbots. “Stay out of other people’s bedroom” propaganda has been such a huge part of our governing ideology for so long that our elites can’t just suddenly reverse themselves on this.
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I’m not sure there will be a unified Muslim opinion on sex bots (or VR/hologram sex). Some Muslims will come down on the side of something similar to the temporary marriages seen in Iran. Others (i.e. Osama Bin Laden) will be against it. Maybe because they truly believe its haram, but most likely the reason will be that they don’t want to lose recruits for suicide bombing and other jihad. After all, if a single Muslim guy has a sex bot available how likely is he to blow himself up for 72 virgins? Not very likely.
TFH, you are correct. While feminists may be able to ban a “sex bot” since sex bots are a discrete concept that no corporation is manufacturing currently, they can’t ban equipment that may be used for VR sex. Sex bots are obvious. The rest of this isn’t. And this requires feminists to understand technology which they don’t.
If nothing else, do you think that NVidia or Microsoft or other large corporations is going to let a few feminists stop them from selling to a multi-billion dollar market? Of course not.
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Call me a skeptic, but I don’t think this is work.
Once they perfect non-chinky looking sex dolls, I may reconsider my position. Until then, the kind of guy that would happily fuck a doll, is the kind of guy who would happily shack up with a real life Asian – so what’s the point? Icky.
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We have to remember that feminism was about power and not about equality. Roissy recently drew the analogy with Orwell, a boot stamping on a human face forever, and as I’ve said as well, the boot will be a stiletto heel and the face will have a beard.
The Junior Anti-Sex League parallels of contemporary feminism are simply too obvious to ignore any more. Feminists simply think that only a handful of alpha males should have access to sex, and then even only grudgingly. The rest should become work drones.
All this is reality today, with what was once a routine biological function now reserved for only a handful of privileged men with access to a surfeit of pussy, while the rest have to make do with whatever alternative is around. That is why turds like Joe Biden and the socons are so beholden to the feminists–because they think they’ll be among the ranks of the priveleged.
Along then comes the sexbot, which upsets this convenient arrangement for them, and that is what drives them absolutely hysterical.
Rebel is right in warning of an actual war. Reihan Salam already wrote about this in his recent Foreign Policy piece “The Death of Macho”. George Sodini and Darren Mark are only the start.
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”””””Nathan November 23, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Call me a skeptic, but I don’t think this is work.
Once they perfect non-chinky looking sex dolls, I may reconsider my position. Until then, the kind of guy that would happily fuck a doll, is the kind of guy who would happily shack up with a real life Asian – so what’s the point? Icky.
”””””’
Asians are gonna be the ones to stop the crap. Hopefully.
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Here is another analogy that to think about :
Prior to the 20th century, the physical strength of a man was an important economic asset, as most jobs required physical strength. Whether a soldier, a blacksmith, a fisherman, a logger, a farmer, or factory worker, a strong man had more employment prospects than a weak man.
As technology advanced and more jobs became knowledge based, a man’s physical strength lost economic value, and became merely a ‘nice to have’. Today, very few jobs that pay over $200K will see any difference in compensation between a man of extreme strength vs. a man of somewhat below-average strength.
So such an integral male characteristic lost its market value.
The same is about to happen to female beauty – a very scarce treasure in the world at present.
Real 10 > VR/Hologram 10 > Real 7.
What happens to all women 7 and below (and 33 years old and older) when VR/Hologram 10s are mass-produced? The same thing that happened to the importance of male strength over the last 100 years.
Sure, it will still be a ‘nice to have’, just like male strength still is. But nothing more. Women will thus have to learn how to make a man feel loved again. She would have nothing else to offer.
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Man jailed for refusing to find feminist attractive. More at eleven.
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TFH
You can’t analogize sexbots to strip clubs, so long as the latter represents a transfer of resources from men to women but the former doesn’t.
piercedhead
“End of resistance”? Really?
You appear to be arguing from the assumption that feminists, and women, will automatically apply the same standards to men as to themselves. That’s as naive as arguing that they’d be just fine with Men’s Studies departments because of the existence of Women’s Studies departments.
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“big masculine pumping machine”
Somewhere, there is probably Anime about this.
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” sestamibi November 23, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Jabherwocki & Gunslinger–
You can try telling that to my son, who is much further down the spectrum from you.
Now, having said that, keep in mind that not only do I concur with all your positions completely, but also share your rage as well.”
My bad. I was angry yesterday. Autism can become a cage. I sympathize. Some find there way out of it though. Stay strong. There is a beutiful soul inside there.
And again, I apologize for my venom to anyone. Still in a bad mood today, but I’m aware of it, so can counter it.
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Jab–
Nothing to apologize for. You feel the same way many of the commenters here feel–you’re just expressing it more bluntly.
My son is fairly low-functioning, but the most beautiful and affectionate boy in the world. I wouldn’t trade him for anything.
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If you would ever like to share stories about him, you’ve always got my ear. My interest comes with opinions however, as I have some ideas on helping Autistics better relate to the people around them, but its a very touchy area for many, and I hold parental rights sacrosanct, so I don’t want to step on any toes. With that said, it seems like you’ve read some books on Autism, and thats most important in understanding their cognitive peculiarlarities and finding ways to develop and strengthen, or work around, their cognitive areas of weakness. Just as normals can train their brains to think in ways Autistics find natural, Autistics can be trained to think in normative social ways. Many are too deep or just lacking overall capacity to do much with however.
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Sestamibi
Anything I can do to help, just ask–my son may be higher functioning, but still cannot live independently. He is an adult now, and he has an entirely different set of issues, as I mentioned on a different thread. I wish you the best.
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if thats your thing
i say: go for it
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I hope they come with a self cleaning function.
… and a program to make me a sandwich.
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This thread almost begs for the age-old question:
“If you didn´t have sex in common, would you even speak to women then ???”
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“All that needs to be done is develop a male sex-bot for women. If they’ll buy vibrators, they’ll certainly buy a big masculine pumping machine. End of resistance”
Sex machines for women for which there is a demand represents a market, and a market represents an industry. The same industry that supplies women will supply men if there is a demand for them as well. If the earnings are potentially large, existing heavy-weight corporate interests will want a share and there will be no stopping them. Once they buy in, all feminist resistance will come to nothing.
This is the main reason there are no men’s studies departments at universities. The noise some may make for them comes from a sense of asymmetry in what university courses are offered, not from any significant demand from students to take a men’s studies class. If women wanted to take men’s studies classes, and were prepared to enroll in them in large enough numbers to make them profitable to universities, they would be everywhere. But even if it was only men who wanted to, there would still be men’s studies departments on some campuses. There are, of course, other forces that would prefer to prevent that from happening, but they are weak compared to the opportunity to take a piece of an emergent market. Men’s Studies will remain unprofitable for the same reason no-one makes lip-stick especially for men. Women’s Studies is essentially a vanity indulged in by women, who have an endless interest in themselves. It is nothing more than a product for a market (and one that appears to be currently in decline). Men aren’t interested in taking Men’s Studies classes. Even a guy like me, who is pro-male and seriously anti-feminist, would not be interested in signing up for such a class.
Though I should have said ‘End of menaningful resistance’ rather than ‘End of resistance’. No matter what, there will always be shrill voices trying to end something – take porn for example. No-one 30 years ago would have believed porn would be so routine today, and especially not if they listened to feminists at the time who had declared jihad against it.
Feminist dogma is usually most prosperous when it is married to a profitable industry. When it is pitted against a profitable industry, it’s nowhere near as strong as we might think it is.
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Kimski
““If you didn´t have sex in common, would you even speak to women then ???—
There’s only so much gossip and talk of celebrities a man can take before it can be classified as torture. There are ways to avoid it if she’s living with you. Develop selective hearing. Give a sympathy card on her birthday.
I was asked by one woman a question regarding a large concept paradigm- breaking topic, which actually amazed me. I told her that explaining that to her would be like trying to teach a pig to sing, you just waste your time and annoy the pig. I actually felt bad about that because she was trying….
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If we can produce a sex bot for women that works well, there will be no resistance from the feminists to let robots be mates with humans.
Women will be more than happy to switch from “biological” men to male androids. As we shall with our own androids.
I can already picture tomorrow’s beautiful world where no human mates with any other human. No more std’s, divorce, dv, c/s and all those things that plague our society.
Azimov has touched upon this subject a long time ago.
Humanity’s future does not include male/female bonding.
As the human species further splits (like an ameoba), the human diad will go to the mothballs. The human “family” is already a thing of the past, at least for most women.
It’s hard to predict the final outcome of this major mutation, but almost surely, humanity is splitting in two before our very eyes.
I have noticed this trend a few years ago: it is getting more and more so as we progress.
It is to be hoped that the two human species will be able to live peacefully, sharing the same planet…
Eventually, we might be led to divide the planet in two, with impenetrable borders between the two.
But then again, the next thing humans will have to accomplish is artificial reproduction.
In the early days of feminism, nobody could have imagined that the movement would have morphed into this. We must cope with that as best we can. For now, the most pressing thing is to define, or rather re-define what our lives, as men, will be.
Women will also have to run through the same exercise.
The changes lying ahead are probably so major that no one yet can grasp the extent.
Is tomorrow going to be Brave New World, or 1984.
I would chose the first option if I have a choice.
The male human might conquer space, leaving the female human.
Then the earth will be entirely female.
Maybe it’s the way it must be.
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piercedhead – Good points. The profit directive is a strong force, indeed.
The technology will definitely exist.
Whether it will be legal, though, is another matter; the public policy and legal trajectory will depend on whether sexbots come to be seen in the media and public consciousness as analogous to prostitutes (in which case they will probably be made illegal) or as analogous to porn and sextoys (in which case they’ll be fine). You and I know that the latter is much closer to the actual truth, but certain groups with vested interests the other way are going to try their damnedest to paint the former picture.
You’re right about this – but this situation requires maintenance and monitoring; it is NOT a universal fact, to the extent where we can just sit back and trust that Big Porn, Big Hip-Hop, et al. will stall the feminist juggernaut.
The prior success of Communism (“success” in terms of colonizing large areas, not, of course, in terms related to the quality of life) is all the evidence you need that an ideology with sufficient momentum can overpower market forces. And that’s certainly the direction in which Femerica is hurtling at the moment, at near terminal velocity.
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The mind is programmable through repeated exposure and conditioning. The “uncanny valley” will be eliminated quite early in the use of these sex surrogates.
For instance, my left hand and porn (Internet and magazines before that) has no comparable qualities or attributes with a female companion, but it has served as my faithful and often sole sexual partner for years at a time.
The Billions of hours spent by mankind masturbating to porn online have given life to fetishes that were unthought of before in all of human experience. One example, is tentacle porn, which was created by an artist in Japan to get around the laws banning the portrayal of penis in sexual images and art.
Tentacle porn is one of the biggest formats for online sexual imagery and it is a device to get around a law.
Nature finds a way, doesn’t it.
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*Shrugs*…I think that’s a nice picture of her.
And have you read the “Purity Myth”? I was thinking of reading it out of curiosity.
Lethargio,
They’ll still think it’s all a sexual battle, when really, guys are crying out for a change in attitude.
I thought the general consensus among posters of this site is that there is a “war” among the sexes already.
Max,
As for violence against women, that’s a non-sequitur. Fuck dolls dehumanize women, therefore fuck dolls will cause men to be violent against women.
I’m sorry but I’m a little confused. Based on the definition of “non sequitur”, are you saying that fuck dolls that dehumanize women will not lead to men being violent towards women – that the two aren’t connected? I’m just trying to better understand your point there.
———————–
Hmmm, I wonder why for women, all they seem to need is dildos while men prefer (or seem to prefer) an entire doll or sexbot.
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Wow, this sure generated a lot of posts!
But, Deborah is just too damn funny – sexbots running on Windows. We can only hope they will boot with the /accepteula to avoid all the promts :^)))))
Made my day . . .
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dream on, the matriarchies will NEVER allow you to have sexbots
anything that decreases, or potentially decreases, collective or individual female power will be criminalized, with heavy penalties — precisely as is the case now, only with more facility and extremism in future, as the gynocracies continue to spread around the planet
it will be done for Security, it will be done For The Children, but whatever excuse is trotted out, you will end up in their mancages
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Renee,
Of course they’re not connected. Why would they be connected?
If anything, they would reduce the frequency of men’s violence toward women, both by shunting it into sexual manifestations (with ‘bots or otherwise) and by making it easier for men to walk away from the sort of stressful and unsatisfying relationships that often produce such violence in the first place.
Visual stimuli are infinitely more important to men than to women. That is all.
It’s the same reason why lingerie, makeup, peep shows, revealing clothes, promotional modeling, etc. are all billion-dollar industries for women, but negligible industries for men (especially if we exclude gay men).
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Epoxytocin No. 87 ,
It cleared up a few things.
Thanks for your input
Of course they’re not connected. Why would they be connected?
If anything, they would reduce the frequency of men’s violence toward women, both by shunting it into sexual manifestations (with ‘bots or otherwise) and by making it easier for men to walk away from the sort of stressful and unsatisfying relationships that often produce such violence in the first place.
I thought so. I looked up the definition of “non sequitur” and was confused by the way that Max phrased that particular point.
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I wonder why for women, all they seem to need is dildos while men prefer (or seem to prefer) an entire doll or sexbot
Someday, you might learn that men and women have quite different sexual response stimuli. The solipism of most women prevents them from ever grasping this, even if men explain it to them for months.
*Shrugs*…I think that’s a nice picture of her.
Women will often overrate the appearance of other women, particularly if they admire the woman in question.
This is also why women do not believe technology can devalue their market position, while most men (i.e. the customer) think it can.
are you saying that fuck dolls that dehumanize women
Feminists do more to dehumanize women than anything else, by conducting inhumane cruelty via the legal system to the most chivalrous and good-hearted men.
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Epoxy,
You can’t analogize sexbots to strip clubs, so long as the latter represents a transfer of resources from men to women but the former doesn’t.
On the contrary, feminists *hate* anything that blatantly advertises and monetizes the disparity in male attention between women of beauty vs. below-average women.
In college, there was a girl who earned $1000/night, 2 nights a week as a stripper (circa 1996). The less attractive women (restricted to $6/hour student jobs) *hated* her. They even grumbled about wanting to report her to the finaid office since her income was cash, and possibly not all reported on her FAFSA.
The next time you are chilling with a group of women, bring up the subject of strip clubs, and whether they are moral or not. You will see a BIG difference in opinions between 8+ women vs. under-6 women.
So feminists certainly don’t love strip clubs, despite the transfer of money. At the same time, women are welcome to apply for Sales, Marketing, and Finance jobs at companies that sell adult video games and hardware, or sexbots.
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Great article and discussion.
Just felt that I should bring up one pressing memory I had (A demanding little memory at that)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_Speaker
Total societal control through sexual monopolization.
-Edrick
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWurY7wtpc
Some women have already begun to realize that male attention must be monopolized, so they have begun smashing XBoxes. Video at link.
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lol I don’t even think the chick broke the xbox
but for 300 bucks he found out she isn’t “the one”
Cheap
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‘Hmmm, I wonder why for women, all they seem to need is dildos while men prefer (or seem to prefer) an entire doll or sexbot.’
Because women sexually objectify men to a far greater and in a far more grotesque manner than we do them. And because for physical pleasure, women just need the dick, and they already have their King Kong dildos. However, for women, sexual pleasure isn’t just physical. I don’t mean that women are less superficial, I mean that women suffer from a major cognitive handicap. They seem utterly unable to seperate their sexual organs from their wider reality and psychological needs.
It would be nice to think that men and women could live happily ever after with their respective sex bots. No more sex war. I don’t think male sex bots will ever satisfy female psychology though. Dildos and vibrators never gave sexual independence to women, like a lot of feminists predicted and boasted of. Women cannot seperate their sexual needs from the fabric of reality itself. Men can, and men can also fulfill those needs through visual and tactile stimulation. Men could be content with an ultra realistic android they could bang all day and night. Women could never be satisfied with a sexbot.
Also, women will always want to compete with each other for the Alpha Males. If the Apha Males become the Apha sexbots, where would it lead? Sexbots the size of King Kong and with 50 foot long dicks? If I have my own private harem of perfect tight assed sex bots, I don’t care who my boss is screwing. There would be no ‘sexual arms race’ with female sex bots. Male sexual competition would end.
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Fifth Horseman,
I just thinks she looks pretty in that picture, that’s it. If you think I’m overrating then that’s up to you.
But I admit that you may be right about the admiration part. I may not agree with Valenti on alot of things (especially about the topic at hand), but I don’t think she’s THAT bad lol.
Schopenbecq,
I have to say, that I’ve never looked at it that way before. I’m not saying that I agree, but it does give me pause.
I think in a way it did. Maybe “independence” isn’t the right word in that case.
Is it really a handicap, and not just a particular characteristic? Some women would say that it is a “handicap” that for men it seems to be all about the sex itself. Of course you would disagree.
Is it really true that for women, sex can’t be just sex? I hear this all the time and wonder if there’s any truth to it or just a stereotype. I can see if it was a guy that they really liked, but otherwise, I think that women are just as capable of separating sex from reality or feelings. But maybe I’m just talking about the minority of women.
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I just thinks she looks pretty in that picture, that’s it.
You are aware that the MIDDLE picture in the article is Valenti, correct?
If you still thinks she looks good, then this is all the more reason that women are unprepared for how sex technologies will crater their market value.
I think that women are just as capable of separating sex from reality or feelings.
Sex, yes. Sexual arousal, no.
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TFH,
LOL, yep
I don’t think she drop-dead gorgeous, but to me, she’s not hideous or even ugly.
Perhaps I’ll be unprepared when it really hits, but really as of now I don’t really care. If I’m meant to be married then it’ll happen.
It’s funny because me and my best friend always joke about going overseas to meet men
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I wonder what Valenti thought of Lars and the Real Girl (which actually was a pretty decent movie, btw, though some of you may be upset to learn that Lars and the doll slept in separate beds).
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Heh maybe women won’t think anymore that their pussy are a powertool against men for sex so they can achive controll over them.
And will begin to respect men for more things then holding power over them and the same will happen to men.
Some relationship and society problems could be fixed with this.
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It’s funny because me and my best friend always joke about going overseas to meet men
Try it in a non-Anglosphere country and see what happens
.
American women truly have no idea how much of an unusual level of privilege they presently enjoy.
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I’ve been thinking about this subject for a while and wondered whether the actual sex-bot will be a side-effect of a much larger industry – that of android home helps. The stigma of owning a sex-bot could be high – but if the sex was just an extra feature on bot that did all the cooking, cleaning and other boring stuff then it would probably be socially acceptable to own one. The expert blowjobs would just be a bonus.
It might even be that the sex functionality would be a home-brew add on – like the guys who mod their x-box 360′s….
If this were the case it would be very difficult to legislate against them.
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I’ve just sent an email to Dr. Kerr. I’d ask that all of you who are concerned about human rights and freedoms to email him as well.
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TFH,
You’re refering to English-speaking countries right? What about France or Italy where English isn’t the main language?
I looked up the definition of Anglosphere to be sure, and it said this:
the group of countries where English is the main native language
The word Anglosphere refers to the totality of anglophone (English-speaking) nations which share historical, political, and sometimes cultural …
True, but this doesn’t relate to what I said.
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I have a lot of sympathy for you guys, but reading this stuff makes me really really happy that I am not straight.
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@ray
“dream on, the matriarchies will NEVER allow you to have sexbots”
Correct!
They might allow these holographic thingies to exist. But robots that look, act and feel like women? – not a hope.
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@Fifth
“You are not up to date with current trends – politically speaking.”
“Actually, I was thinking the same regarding you. It is not possible to ban a technology like this, across the whole world, simultaneously. ”
Straw man. I never suggested that they would ban the technology simultaneously across the whole world.
“If you are so up-to-date, why have none of the major political blogs linked to you?”
Straw man. I never suggested that I was in the same category as the major political bloggers. I was pointing out that YOU were not up to date, politically speaking – as evidenced by the following naive remark of yours, …
““You live in Britain, correct? What if they successfully ban 3-D/Hologram sex entertainment in Britain (unlikely, but hypothetically), but it is NOT banned in Spain, The Netherlands, Italy, Poland, and Romania?—
You clearly do not understand what has been happening in Europe, and what is gradually happening to the USA.
This ‘world government’ agenda is being very strongly pursued.
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And, finally, since Fifth is driving me nuts.
Let me spell it out for all of you here, in simple terms, so simple that even Fifth might finally understand.
We, the people, in the UK, do NOT (I repeat ****NOT****) get to vote on 99% of the laws that are created by the European Parliament.
We have NO SAY in them.
We, the people, do not even know what these laws actually are MOST of the time.
And we, the people of the UK, CANNOT even vote out of office those people who create these laws if we are unhappy with what they have been doing.
Indeed, EVEN OUR NATIONAL POLITICIANS are UNABLE to tell our supposedly EUROPEAN REPRESENTATIVES in the European Parliament, how they should vote.
Finally, even if ****EVERYBODY**** in the UK was to vote against a particular law arising from the European parliament, such a law would still be legally ENFORCEABLE throughout the UK.
And, in America, the very same type of situation is arising.
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Harry,
You are not being logical (i.e. being driven nuts by something I wrote 5 days ago), and have deviated too far from the original points :
I never suggested that they would ban the technology simultaneously across the whole world.
Doesn’t this refute what you said earlier, which was :
Sexbots will be outlawed. No question about it.
There is NO HOPE that these sexbots will be permitted to be produced – unless, that is, a powerful men’s lobby manages to overcome the opposition.
… and also refute your claim that a world government is imminent?
Perhaps you should articulate your whole point in a tight paragraph or two. Maybe then the internal contradictions between your own quotes will become apparent to you.
—————————————-
Regarding the failure of MRAs to have more of an impact :
I read your article a long time ago. Among those points, 6-11 are valid. But the first five are not.
First of all, why aren’t MRMs doing more to confront socialcon/whiteknighting MEN? They are huge part of the problem, and MRAs should find it much easier to confront those.
The notion that media support is a must is wrong – look at the Tea Party movement in the United States. The media did everything to try to mischaracterize them as racists/violent/extreme, but they forged on, gained massive support, and made real changes in the US, very quickly. The MRM could do the same.
Many simple yet creative ideas could have an effect, such as getting a ballot initiative going in California to make no fault divorce imply no asset rights for the departing spouse. Maybe a majority vote for it. Even if 50% don’t vote for it, a lot of shrieking feminists will come out of the woodwork with outlandish histrionics, and expose their extremism into the light of day (which tends to work in getting average people repulsed by extremists).
Note how quickly the global warming scam retracted once a few emails indicating political fudging of data came out.
I strongly support MRM goals, but think there is a total lack of leadership/imagination/strategic brilliance there, which explains the minimal results.
Lastly, you are drifting into ad hominem attacks. That is unworthy of any MRA, who should be able to do better.
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@Fifth
“look at the Tea Party movement in the United States. The media did everything to try to mischaracterize them as racists/violent/extreme, but they forged on, gained massive support, and made real changes in the US, very quickly.”
Were there only 100 people at the tea parties?
No.
There were thousand of them.
“I read your article a long time ago. Among those points, 6-11 are valid. But the first five are not.”
Yes. They are valid. And obviously so, in my view.
For example, simply taking my point 1, I would think that it would be extremely obvious to most people that government and government workers benefit hugely from feminism
I wrote more fully about this here, …
http://www.angryharry.com/esWhyGovernmentsLoveFeminism.htm
And if you really cannot see how governments and their workers benefit from feminism, then, what can I say?
You just can’t see it.
But many others can.
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Were there only 100 people at the tea parties? No. There were thousand of them.
They STARTED SMALL, and GREW. That is the point. Grassroots. The Tea Party, the Anbar Awakening, all are example of lessons the MRM could adopt.
I can personally say that if there was an MRM protest in my area, I would go and be an enthusiastic participant. I am sure there are many others like me, men and even a small number of women. BUT the ball has to get rolling.
Hell, there is a strong case to be made that this should even be an offshoot of the Tea Party movement, as many principles overlap.
I would think that it would be extremely obvious to most people that government and government workers benefit hugely from feminism
To a point, yes. But beyond a point, male government workers are also vulnerable to divorce, AND feminism shrinks tax revenue due to killing incentives for male entrepreneurship/productivity.
None of your 11 points are *invalid*, but about half of them are not quite as formidable as they are being portrayed.
Again, I strongly support MRM goals, but it is clear that the movement has a major lack of creativity, aggressive determination, and leadership. I have given many ideas, ranging from an attempt to get a ballot initiative, to organizing talks/field trips to court where young men can learn about divorce laws that are being kept secret from them, to televised debates (easy in the Internet age).
However, you don’t seem to be interested in those. Now why is that?
You just can’t see it. But many others can.
I would contend you are seeing TOO much, and getting psyched out by it. Other MRAs might convince themselves of utter hopelessness, and use that as an excuse to give up.
Consider this as constructive criticism for the movement as a whole, not for any individual in particular.
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@Fifth
“I can personally say that if there was an MRM protest in my area, I would go and be an enthusiastic participant. I am sure there are many others like me, men and even a small number of women. BUT the ball has to get rolling.”
I have been to numerous protests concerning men’s rights.
Did you hear about them? I doubt it. Without media support, there is a big problem.
And I have already explained why MRAs have so many problems getting their messages out.
“Hell, there is a strong case to be made that this should even be an offshoot of the Tea Party movement, as many principles overlap.”
Agreed.
“To a point, yes. But beyond a point, male government workers are also vulnerable to divorce, AND feminism shrinks tax revenue due to killing incentives for male entrepreneurship/productivity.”
Indeed, But they mostly do not see things this way. YET!
“None of your 11 points are *invalid*,”
Good to see that you’ve changed your mind
“but about half of them are not quite as formidable as they are being portrayed.”
Well, you have my opinion.
“Other MRAs might convince themselves of utter hopelessness, and use that as an excuse to give up.”
That’s a bit rich coming from you – given your continued denigration of MRAs and your continued suggestion that they are useless.
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Harry,
If there were MRA protests in a major US city, it would be known by participants in that city. Word would get around from a variety of informal channels (including Twitter). I bet that hardly any of The Spearhead commenters knows of one that happened in the last few weeks.
So that excuse doesn’t hold up.
Good to see that you’ve changed your mind
I have not changed my position even once. The only thing that changes is the selective nature of your interpretation. I maintain that while none of those points are outright wrong, about half are making a mountain out of a molehill.
That’s a bit rich coming from you – given your continued denigration of MRAs and your continued suggestion that they are useless.
I used no such harsh words – you did.
But I see that you have no comment whatsoever on the variety of ideas I presented. Again, I ask, why is that? Have they been tried before?
This does nothing to dissuade me of my charges of the MRM having a lack of creativity, determination, leadership, and energy.
MANY men would join up if they felt there was real leadership and energy there.
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I wonder if one could market sex-bots initially for the mentally handicapped, on the premise that sex is good for their well-being, makes them safer to care for, that they are not able to develop the appropriate skills to have sex with anyone else and that to deny them access to such technology would be a violation of their human rights.
Reproductive technology started out on a parallel course – expensive technology was developed to service a specific niche that would garner the sympathy of everyone: married women who couldn’t conceive. Although I can recall quite a bit of resistance targeting the morality of it and the possible risk to the so-called ‘test-tube children’, we all know who won. And once they won, the boundaries moved. Now single lesbian women can have children without having to get to know any man, which would have been considered completely unacceptable when the first artificially inseminated child was born, and well outside of the imaginations of most people of the time.
There are sneaky ways around everything.
The fact is there is an enormous demand from men and women to have their sexual desires satisfied. Enormous demands represent enormous sums of money. The only two things standing in the way are current levels of technology, and current ways of thinking. The technology will improve, and the culture will change. As soon as ‘robotic sexual aids’ are made available to any segment of the populace (eg the mentally handicapped), the attitude towards their acceptability would erode, and my guess is they would erode pretty quickly.
It wouldn’t be long before someone somewhere started saying things like ‘if only x% of the current amount of sex between people was replaced with android sex, 20,000 fewer people would die per year of AIDS’, ‘there would be y% fewer teen-age pregnancies’, ‘there would be z% fewer STDs all round’.
Then one moves to the next stage where arguments are put forth for avoiding natural sex at all for reproduction, citing elimination of congenital diseases like spina bifada, Downes syndrome, even short-sightedness and susceptibility to cancer. You won’t get far telling people to stop having sex for the health of social and health statistics, but it’s a different matter altogether to offer them all the sex they could possibly want, and achieve the same improved health outcomes at the same time.
I wouldn’t fancy the chances of feminists wanting to preserve their sexual power for their own benefit when confronted with such an array of forces lined up against them. Indeed, so many would be tempted by the benefits of not resisting that they would desert the sisters’ ranks.
I’m not suggesting things will play out as I’ve listed them. I’m only saying that whatever reasons there may be for resisting sex-bots today only appear strong because they are strong in terms of today’s culture. That culture will change as assuredly in the future as it has in the past.
If there is one consistent pattern in our history, it’s that we develop technology to give us more of what we need or want, and less of what we dislike. The Agricultural revolution answered our need for food. The Industrial Revolution spared us back-breaking labor. Medical science answers our fear of disease. It’s inconceivable to me that we will not use technology to answer our desire for sex.
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@Fifth
Two contradictory statements of yours concerning my article …
” Among those points, 6-11 are valid. But the first five are not.â€
And then, …
“None of your 11 points are *invalid*”
And now you protest that you did not contradict yourself, …
“I have not changed my position even once.”
YAWN.
You’re too busy trying to score points.
And failing.
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Harry,
You are the one dodging the major points, and quite badly. I see you are going to great lengths to avoid three basic points :
a) That the media won’t cover them is a poor excuse for no MRM protests, in this day and age of Twitter, blogs, etc.
b) I have presented just a few good ideas of how MRA could make an impact, which you refuse to acknowledge, or comment on why they might not work (now why might that be)?
c) A lack of creativity, determination, and energy in the MRM is why a lot of men who would be energized are not participating.
So, why could it be that you want to avoid these three points, again and again and again? Explain yourself.
Plus, you are getting defensive for no reason.
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Harry,
Remember that any movement that aims for any relevance whatsoever will have to appeal to a broader audience (even if only of men), and should be able to sell the idea by answering reasonable questions such as mine.
So consider this as practice for when you will have to answer questions about what MRM is.
I share MRM goals, and I certainly think that Kathryn Joyce is wrong to brand you an extremist. But you have to do a MUCH better job in answering questions about what MRAs are doing, showing that MRAs are creative, driven, and worth supporting.
Again, consider this to be constructive criticism.
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**it appears that zed, irlandes, arthur, AH, Novaseeker, et al were right. there will be no Men’s movement. not a unified front anyway.
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@Fifth
I do not disagree with or oppose any of your ideas for activism.
**MY** form of activism, however, is on the internet.
The internet is the most powerful activist tool that we have.
You often have a problem taking on board what I am saying. And it feels like point scoring.
You seem to have an autistic-type quality in your approach to dealing with my posts and those of others.
True. You’re improving.
But there is, as yet, some way to go!
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John Nada,
**it appears that zed, irlandes, arthur, AH, Novaseeker, et al were right. there will be no Men’s movement. not a unified front anyway.
I wish that were not the case, but I would sadly agree with you that it is.
The only ‘Men’s Movement’ is the one you advocate, i.e. the MOVEMENT out of the Anglosphere
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Angry Harry,
That is in poor taste. I pose reasonable questions in the form of constructive criticism, and you not only refuse to answer them in good faith, but then hurl insults about ‘autism’ and ‘point scoring’, rather than actually answer them.
Weak. In a metaphorical way.
This does NOT get new people interested in going out of their way to support the MRM, by the way. If people who support the goals and are interested are turned away in this manner, then as many (zed, nova, John Nada, etc.) have said before me, there is no Men’s movement to speak of outside of a few blogs.
A course in Leadership 101 would be in order.
If your activism is on the Internet, you could easily organize all sorts of things with other MRMs via blogs, Twitter, and Facebook.
I do not disagree with or oppose any of your ideas for activism.
So why aren’t MRAs doing them? That sort of is the whole point.
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I do not disagree with or oppose any of your ideas for activism.
The broader question is ‘why isn’t any group of people with a common interest more organized than they are?’
For instance, lots of people play chess. Only a very small number belong to chess clubs. Millions of people love gardening, but only a tiny fraction of them attend garden meets, go to shows or organize gardening circles.
If millions of people with a common interest see no value in clubbing together, why should we be so down on a few thousand men for acting in the very same way?
It just doesn’t make sense to say that men cannot achieve anything together, when all of history shows that they can, and have done repeatedly. What they’re unlikely to do though in large numbers is to band together into noisy organizations, with all the hubris that goes with such structures – not least of which is the fact that organizations nearly always end up serving the interests of its leaders.
Men are most effective when they are motivated and free to be their own boss. A simple example of this comes to mind in the recent lead-up to the Kevin Driscoll trial, where the blogger Fidelbogen took it upon himself to publish daily updates of the trial proceedings. His hit count soared. The local press published an account of the online interest in what would otherwise have been a local trial of little interest to anyone. The prosecutors were flooded with emails from around the world, and even they were daily keeping tabs on what Fidelbogen was posting. I have a lot of respect for the guy, but I believe what he did in those few weeks was easily his greatest work. Right now, as a consequence of the hung jury, I believe the local prosecutors are still deciding on whether to re-try the case. Whatever they decide, there can be no doubt that they are much more aware that there are far more pairs of eyes watching them than previously, and that if a retrial acquits Kevin Driscoll quickly and decisively, things could go spectacularly bad for them.
That’s what one guy on his own can do. Pierce Harlan is doing a similar thing with his blog ‘False Rape Society’. He’s picked something that a single man can make a difference doing, and he’s kept at it doggedly. Glenn Sacks is doing the same for Father’s Rights.
All this is happening regardless of the lack of monolithic organization – and the fact is, we don’t need it. What we need are individual men identifying a specific problem that they alone can answer, and committing themselves to it. Harry is doing that, in that he has identified spreading awareness through the net as something he can achieve. Who can doubt that he is succeeding? John Nada has identified repatriation for men who want out of the Anglosphere as something he can do – and he’s doing it. This list goes on and on and on. When you consider the services being provided by such a relatively small number of men in aggregate, a picture emerges of outputs being achieved that only a much larger, well-funded and less efficient organization could equal.
I think we give ourselves too little credit.
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@Fifth
“I do not disagree with or oppose any of your ideas for activism.”
“So why aren’t MRAs doing them?”
HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO ASK ME THE SAME QUESTION?
I HAVE GIVEN YOU MY ANSWER ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS.
READ MY PIECE AGAIN IF YOU HAVE TO …
http://www.angryharry.com/esNoMensGroups.htm
*******THAT****** IS MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION
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@Piercedhead
Thank goodness you’ve arrived. I was about to buy a ticket to America so that I could hunt down Fifth and shoot him – having first made him suffer unimaginable agonies.
One of our main problems, internet-wise, is attracting, and keeping, a larger audience. At the moment, there is just not enough interest in the topics that we tend to discuss.
And, quite frankly, most of us do not have the talents or the resources to capture the interests of a large audience.
However, the good news is that we can achieve many of our goals by influencing those who DO have a large audience and who DO, also, have an interest in our issues.
And we are being fairly successful with this.
A good example, for Brits, can be seen in the recent piece written by Leo McInstry in the UK’s Daily Express concerning Harriet Harman’s Equality Bill, ….
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/141472/Harriet-Harman-s-Equality-Bill-has-nothing-to-do-with-fairness
Indeed, his piece is very similar to my own pontifications concerning the matter – much to my pleasure.
But what I would love to see is someone like Alex Jones hosting a men’s show that stirred up the emotions and that energised viewers into attacking all the misandry and the anti-male policies.
And I feel sure that this will happen some day.
Bernard Chapin is very good indeed. I love that man. But, with respect to him, I feel that he is far too intellectual for most people.
But it is quite clear that the dam is breaking, on many fronts, with regard to people speaking out, and so the future does look hopeful.
And, as I said elsewhere, it is very important for MRAs to keep pointing out to people that politicians, governments etc etc etc are mostly promoting feminism and man-hatred to benefit themselves and, further, that they have been lying to us for decades over gender issues.
And seemingly unrelated revelations such as found in Climategate will clearly help MRAs in this endeavour – because they show just how corrupt the seemingly uncorruptible can be; which is why MRAs should pursue all avenues when it comes to exposing our self-serving corrupt elites.
Undermine those elites, and you undermine feminism.
Finally, in the UK, I can nowadays see numerous MRAs (and others) all over the mainstream newspaper websites. popping those feminist balloons, and also talking about the fact that feminism is being promoted by our government purely for self-serving reasons.
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I was about to buy a ticket to America so that I could hunt down Fifth and shoot him – having first made him suffer unimaginable agonies.
All this because you can’t answer simple questions?
I have been polite and respectful, despite your efforts to drag down the discourse rather than answer questions in good faith. It would be appropriate for you to introspect about your conduct, and reciprocate with comparable class.
I have read your article and its 11 points more than once. You should know this, as we discussed it upthread. My questions are beyond that, so quit dodging. The point is, those excuses are not enough to account for lack of more visible progress in the MRM, OR the disinterest in new ideas. Too many molehills are turned into mountains, and used to rationalize inaction.
In fact, in the Game community, we see that Beta men will come up with a similar list of reasons why they cannot succeed with women, and rationalize their inaction. That is not the way of Game, where a solution, however challenging, was found, refined, and the practitioners have the happiest lives of all.
Obsidian wrote about the same thing, about the difference between ‘Doers’ and ‘non-doers’, and how Game attracts the former, while the latter makes excuses.
You had to be cornered for 3 posts before you even acknowledged my MRM ideas, which sort of reveals a lot. Given that you were singled out as an extremist in the Forbes article, it would behoove you to improve your reputation, rather than alienate the few people who don’t think you are an extremist.
Also, turning away people who support the cause is the reason the MRM, in the words of John Nada, Zed, nova, etc. doesn’t really exist in any meaningful form as a cohesive movement. I wish it did. But better people need to be seen as the face of the MRM, such as…….
Piercedhead,
Thanks for a coherent opinion. Too bad Harry could not produce such a simple passage, choosing instead to behave in a way that does nothing but alienate new entrants to the MRM.
Small things definitely matter. Harry does some good, but also does equal or greater harm by generating bad press (as in the Forbes article). I too am doing a lot, by bringing awareness to Game as a power-shifting strategy, as well as to market forces that may shift the balance.
I just think that there is a vacuum of broader creativity, energy, and thought leadership in the MRM. If 98% of men aren’t even aware of the legal/institutional injustices they face, and that there is a small movement to counter it, we can’t really say the movement is making ground.
It is easy to put brief educational videos on Youtube, for example.
The broader question is ‘why isn’t any group of people with a common interest more organized than they are?’
I certainly agree that it does not have to be organized. Game is a huge threat to feminism simply because it leads to thousand of individual men to make their own decision not to feed the beast. No unified leadership is needed.
But the examples you cited about MRMs need to be thousands in number, and thus thousands of different approaches, to be effective. Feminism got so far exactly that way.
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I first read Harry’s article ‘Why No Large Men’s Groups’ on MND a little while ago and it generated much the same type of heated controversy as the one above.
I suppose my thought is if this article was to be posted in five years time would we then be having the identical discussion. I honestly don’t know, I have no powers of prediction. I can however more or less see what is happening around me and have some recollection of the past.
Harry will recall that some years ago women only short lists for parliamentary elections were rules illegal under existing legislation. However, this was quickly overcome by a change in the legislation. We now have the equality act which will in effect legalise discrimination against men and the conservative party also adopting women only short lists.
My point is that what this illustrates is that feminism can suffer setback but that they then quickly neutralise the setback and advance a little further.
So indeed we can point to examples of more resistance being expressed in the ‘mainstream’ but I for one can not see that the trend is being changed or that feminism is rolling back. Indeed on your own website Harry you put up some statistics which showed how feminism was gaining a foot hold in Islamic counties. This really depressed me Harry – but did not surprise me.
I have to be honest that unlike Paul Elam I am a misogynist. But this is more a state of mind then any sort of activism. However, I don’t think you would be very interested in my state of mind so I will end now.
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“Small things definitely matter. Harry does some good, but also does equal or greater harm by generating bad press (as in the Forbes article). I too am doing a lot, by bringing awareness to Game as a power-shifting strategy, as well as to market forces that may shift the balance.”
Harry made me an MRA. Bad press is better than no press at all. Harry has always believed in stirring up shit, and has walked the walk. Harry has been converting people to our side before you knew the internet had other uses than porn. Game is not a magic bullet, and its ability to falsely prop up your ego is good for making gina tingles, but bad for encouraging brotherhood in the MRM by tearing down one of its leaders. Angry Harry is an elder to our movement, and he leaves it to us, the younger generation to make shit happen. He’s done his part 10 times over. Get yourself a can of fucking spray paint and go graffitti MRA on a fucking family court building, the HQ of NOW, or some other high visibility target or stop bitching about inaction. I was fired as a teacher because I’m an MRA. What sacrifices have you made. Your name does not do you justice. Your words are wise, but the Horseman of the apocylipse are entities of action.
“Obsidian wrote about the same thing, about the difference between ‘Doers’ and ‘non-doers’, and how Game attracts the former, while the latter makes excuses. ”
Getting pussy by fucking and chucking and putting women in their place will entrench the feminist. I believe this is a necessary step, but why people with “Game” think they are the second coming is beyond me. Wow! You have confidence! Holy fucking shit! Lets terraform Mars now! We can do anything!
We are not here to organize into an army that marches on Washington DC, although hopefully that will happen. We are here to spread propaganda. That is what Angry Harry has been doing for over a decade! We are here to create revolutionary cells of extremist activity and propaganda. We are here to psychologically terrorize Feminist. You wanna be a metaphorical suicide bomber, strap on the belt then, but stop bitching about there not being enough suicide bombers. You want more political action? Start a special interest group with all that money your ability to “Game” has made you. What? You’re not rich and influential because of Game? You just get to sleep around with sluts? Well damn, sorry Game isn’t the answer either. Angry Harry doesn’t take you seriously because you are a child asking the persistant unanswerable question; Why? Why? and when he answers, again, Why? Why? Stop whining like a little brat, stir some shit up, and show respect where respect is do. Angry Harry deserves a lot more than just that. I expect you to choke down the enormous ego Game allows you, and humor us. I’ll leave it at this: No one fucks with Angry Harry. It’s in poor taste. If you annoyed him, I assure you we will not blame him for allowing himself to be annoyed. He calls himself Angry Harry for Christ’s sake.
Other than that, I love you 5th. You generally make great points.
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Again, the reasons for this are very clear: men do not think they have it so bad today, and for the most part they are right. This is reflected in the surveys demonstrating that men are happier than women are and are also happier than they were 30 years ago. Men are, by and large, *not* discontent with their lives. They simply aren’t.
We talk about the injustices and so on, probably because many of us have felt the injustices in our own lives or in the lives of people close to us. But most men are not feeling that the world is unjust in its dealings with men. In part this is a lack of awareness, to be sure, but in part it’s also a substantive disagreement. Men in the West, especially in the Anglosphere, by and large support feminism because, by and large, men really love women, and women want feminism, by and large (exceptions at this site and similar ones notwithstanding). Men do not feel “aggrieved”, generally speaking — only the ones who have been either chewed up by the legal system or frozen out by the current mating market feel “aggrieved”, and neither of these two sets of men is going to make *any* headway convincing the broader group of men that these are issues to worry about because both sets of men are “tainted” — one are losers for not having their relationships work out (perception of other men at least) and the others are losers for, well, being losers with women. Period.
The difference between this situation and feminism is striking. Many women, especially the upper middle class ones who led second wave feminism, felt quite “aggrieved” by what they perceived to be limits on what they could do with their lives. They wanted to get rid of these limits — feminism was about that as much as it was anything else, and almost all women could relate to that basic message: “why should we be limited in ways that men are not?”. Women were easily convinced that unless these limits were removed, by law and culture, they would be “unequal” to men — and that’s a pretty easy sell. It sold brilliantly to women, probably because it tapped into what was likely a millenial anger stewing in the hearts of many women about men in general. But the important point is that women either genuinely felt aggrieved or were easily convinced that they should feel aggrieved by these limits, and it was quite easy to rally them (and many men, too) around the idea of removal of these limitations. Feminism marched in lockstep with the movement of contemporary philosophy as well, based as it is on individual autonomic freedom as an absolute value. It very much was in tune with the “Zeitgeist”, which helped it along, too.
Men are in a completely different situation. Most men are not aggrieved. Most men do not want to listen to the stories and experiences of men who *have* been hurt by the system and who are themselves aggrieved. There are hard limits on the efficacy of “awareness raising” efforts among men precisely for this reason — most men are not pissed off enough, to be honest, in order to be receptive to awareness raising efforts. They arent discontent enough in their own lives to be very receptive to that message, really. That is the major hurdle to any MRA movement — men don’t feel they need it, because by and large they are generally a content bunch — more content than women are, and more content than they themselves were decades ago.
This is why I do not think an MRM will be a reality. Men just don’t feel aggrieved enough for it. What I think is much more impactful are the personal decisions men make in their lives.
For example, we often talk about the marriage strike. This is, of course, a misnomer. Men are not “striking” against marriage the way a union strikes against management. There is no coordinated effort here. And the impact, while real, is nevertheless a marginal one — most men still do marry, eventually, and most men desire to marry, according to surveys. This varies by age group, of course, and younger men are less likely to admit to wanting to marry, but while the marriage rate is decreasing, we aren’t seeing it collapse. Most men are not avoiding marriage on principle — most men are marching into the institution as they ever have, and around half of them will have successful marriages — much more than half if they are a dual higher educated couple. So, you tell me — are these men going to be responsive to the message of MRAs? No, generally they are not. They are going to see MRAs as losers who couldn’t make their marriages work and who are now bitter at women because of that. So a huge swath of the male population is already going to be disinclined to listen. Of course, the marriage rate *is* declining — that is true. But women are also increasingly disinclined to marry, and in surveys report a lower interest in marrying than men do. What we have going on here is not a marriage strike, but rather a cultural shift away from marriage in lower and middle income demographics, among men and women alike. The real “gas” though is what men are doing about this, and that’s where personal behaviors can be impactful.
And this is where Game comes in. The positive side of Game, from my perspective, is that if it were to become more widespread in its use, it would be like acid to the culture as a whole. By that I mean that it would help to speed the decline of our institutions as a whole — including marriage among everyone but the dual educated slice. Game is having a much bigger impact on men and women already than the MRM has had in all of its decades of activity, precisely because men see *value* in Game. It’s quite telling, really, because the main audience for Game is also the main audience for the MRM: men who are somewhat disaffected with the current system. But men are much more receptive to Game than they are to MRA issues because Game offers them a way out of the mess for their own lives — it is more *useful* to them than anything the MRM does. It offers them the possibility to become more socially skilled and procure relationships with women — which is what most men want in life, at the end of the day. Game has the potential to become the real game-changer here, precisely because it is something that a good deal of men see some value in, in terms of improving their lives practically.
The issue with Game, as has been pointed out by many, is that it tends towards reinforcing the nihilism that dominates the current culture. I agree with that, but I query whether this is a bad thing, in practical terms. What I mean is that while I also agree that the nihilistic trend in the culture is unhealthy, I tend to be more pessimistic than many, and see Western culture’s disease as being terminal. Game may be that poison pill that sends Western culture careening headlong into oblivion — which very well may be exactly what needs to happen. In other words, if Western culture is terminally ill, there’s no sense delaying the inevitable — and Game can instead increase the speed of the decline, which brings us that much closer to what comes *afterward*.
It’s in that sense that Game, I think, has the potential to be much more impactful on our culture as a whole than anything the MRAs are doing. Of course, this may not happen at all. I think that while Game is getting a lot of attention now, the % of men who are actually *running* Game is quite small relative to the population of men as a whole. If it remains that way, the impact of Game on the culture as a whole will remain limited — that is, it will impact the hookup culture, certainly, but in terms of “resetting” male/female relationships more generally in broad swathes of the demographic, that won’t happen unless broad swathes of men really start to run Game. I’m rather uncertain that this will happen. Even if it does not, however, there will still be some cultural acid effect due to the guys who *are* running Game, and this will have a bleed-over impact into the rest of the culture, in some more indirect ways.
But in any case, and to end a rather long comment, the reason why MRAs have so little traction is that men are not discontent enough, generally, to be receptive to what the MRM has to say unless they fall into a couple of subgroups of men that are generally viewed as losers by most men. It’s as simple as that, I think.
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I’m beginning to think that gamers don’t know what they’re talking about.
There’s only one good thing about this contemporary development of game, and that is an emerging understanding in relation to how women think. But there’s obviously a long way to go, because the proponents of game appeared to have failed to understand culture. Not ever man can be an alpha. As soon as society gets to a stage where every man pretends playing alpha, here’s the most likely sequence of events:
1) Women will wise up to it. “Here’s another one of those gamer putzesâ€, they’ll sigh in exasperation. “Fuck off mama’s boyâ€;
2) A new kind of alpha will emerge. A killer alpha. An alpha’s alpha. A gladiator. A warlord. Women will swoon over him and he’ll lob off the heads of all the alpha wannabes and women will swoon some more;
3) Culture will devolve, and if we’re lucky enough, we’ll become apes swinging through trees, limited in the damage we can inflict on one another through gross stupidity;
Why do we think harems are possible? Women swoon not over alphas, but over leaders, winners, top of the pecking order. Game theory is all well and good, but it can never apply to the entire population of men, because not every man can appear at the top of the pecking order. That’s nonsense.
When a goody-two-shoes woman tells a man “you’re dangerous†and another tells him “you’re a really bad boyâ€, they’re not, actually, admonishing him. They go giddy at the thought of being violated by the head honcho of the pack. “Do it to me baby, ah-ha, ah-ha.†Women are as much drawn to danger as they fear it. That’s why they have rape fantasies. A culture of predictable alpha wannabes, all trying to out-game each other, will cease to be dangerous. It will become predictable, and a new honcho will be sought for the top of the pecking order, to put all the pretenders beneath him in their place.
Women notice swagger, arrogance. They’ll deny that they are drawn to it, both to you and to themselves. But it grows on them. “hmmmm… I can spread my legs for that” they begin to think to themselves. “hmmm… I think I’ll have a nice little rape fantasy.”
So if women love leaders and are often thoroughly bored by anything less, why would any woman bother getting married at all, if she can’t finish up with the top dog? Here be the reasons:
1) Because they can. It’s a freebie. Marriage is the ultimate free lunch for a woman. She gets to be provided for for the rest of her life. Thus it is no accident that many women choose men so dull that they blend with the wallpaper. Dull men often make reliable, predictable, obedient providers and this suits some women just fine. Again, a direct clash with gamer theory – women often go out of their way to choose an idiot, a putz, a dimwit, for an assortment of reasons relating to strategy, agenda and predictability;
2) Rich men are useful for a number of reasons… i) self-indulgent materialism, ii) “rich†as a cue for “successâ€, iii) “rich†as a ready-reckoner reassuring a woman that this dude’s “financially secure†and a reliable provider;
3) A moral woman is capable of loving a man, but this comes with a disclaimer. It is conditional on the proviso that he aspire to be something more than ordinary. Only then can she respect him. And if he delivers the goods, she’ll look up to him, and she will defer to him. Of course if he aspires to something less, she can’t just switch off her life of quiet desperation, and besides – why look a gift-goose-that-lays-the-golden-egg in the mouth?
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@Novaseeker
Care to quantify this statement? As I’ve mentioned previously there are real political gains that the MRM has made, such as getting Abuse Shelters to open up to men in several states, and supporting many men in legal battles for their rights. We have many popular radio programs, that actually receive 10,000′s of listeners, such as Glenn Sacks’. Dad’s on the Air is the most popular broadcast in all of Australia. We have had a hand in crafting anti-MGM legislation as well. The MRM is doing much more than you seem to realize. I’m soory, but, dating advice isn’t going to dig men out of the holes they’re in. That being said, I thank you PUAs for helping men in their lovelifes; but, this ‘game’ you keep proscribing for every situation, is not a miracle cure. Nor has it had any quantifiable affect on the world. Men’s News Daily is an award winning site, which can be seen here. You need to look into the MRM’s actual political doings. You simply don’t understand that we are garnering power; and, that it takes decades to accumulate.
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I don’t deny that there are individual men doing things. What I am saying, and you know that it’s true, is that the vast majority of men do not give a shit about these issues. Instead, they care more about their own lives, and are by and large content with themselves.
At some point guys in the MRM have to admit that they are a fringe group among men.
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***
I’ve seen it go down like that time and time again. Human beings are motivated primarily by 2 things: Pleasure and Pain.
Think about it: you have one hand on a pile of gold coins and the other on a pile of hot coals. Which one will you move first?
And until that pain of living under Entitlement Materialist Feminism goes from chronic to acute, men are NOT going to act in in a noticeable, concerted effort. I fear by then it may be too late.
The pleasure principle I see played out with “Game” and why it is so appealing: humans acting in their own self-interest. I’ve mentioned it before, I do not advocate it but it is a necessary evil to accelerate the endgame result awaiting Team Woman. For the PUA, it will be a Pyrrhic victory at best.
***
I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.– Harriet Tubman
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If the men who use the sexbot are those many women don’t want anyway, what is the problem? I think the problem is that while women only desire an elite minority of men, they want all the other men to still chase them, so they can get attention and take advantage of them.
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damn
that ‘H-Tub’ quote
really knocked me out
slavery mustn’t been too bad
if they dint even knows it was
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“Firepower December 2, 2009 at 10:58 am
damn
that ‘H-Tub’ quote
really knocked me out
slavery mustn’t been too bad
if they dint even knows it was”
How many men know they are just wage slaves, nothing more than a beast of burden to our current system, a system that will just as easily conscript him to war as strip him of his assets and family? The only freedom captialism offers is the choice of which form of slavery one will be indentured to. An overstatement and simplification, I realize, but trying to make a point.
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Sexbots? A definite sign that The Spearhead is going downhill.
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” tc December 2, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Sexbots? A definite sign that The Spearhead is going downhill.”
Poo. Why limit intellectual curiousity? You never know where new wisdom might be found. Great insights have come from strange places before. I do agree that I wasn’t too pumped up about this thread myself, but ones man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
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@Novaseeker
Re: Your long post at 5.56 does not go deep enough.
And I just make some comments about it.
1. At this point in time, you seem to me to be depressed, and I think that this is colouring too much of your current viewpoint. You are just not thinking as deeply as you normally do.
2. Your view that women were dissatisfied four decades ago and that they wanted to ‘break out’ is just not true. Indeed, as you pointed out yourself, they were happier then than now.
What happened is that they were fed a load of lies that made them feel unhappy and unworthy, and which also made them feel hostile towards men.
THIS DID NOT COME FROM WOMEN.
It came from a MASSIVE and CONTINUAL onslaught of well-funded malicious propaganda from various groups that sought to profit by stirring up inter-gender disharmony.
This propaganda demonised men not only in the eyes of women, but also in the eyes of men and in the eyes of ‘officialdom’.
3. I agree with your view that men are fairly content at the moment, in many ways, and that, as such, it is more difficult to arouse them into some form of activism.
And there are many reasons for this contentment, which I will not go into here.
However, as I said in my piece about the lack of men’s groups, there are NUMEROUS reasons why MRAs have found it difficult to get through to men. And none of the reasons that I mention in my piece are trivial. They each represent HUGE forces. Mind-bogglingly huge in some cases.
4. The idea that the MM is not growing is just plain wrong. It is growing all the time. And if you view the MM as a consciousness, then it is growing very fast at this point in time.
Indeed, and for example, it is quite clear that the Daily Mail is putting out anti-feminist propaganda at a fairly hefty rate.
And yet, even two years ago, any comment that I might make that smacked of antifeminism on the Daily Mail website, would never pass the moderator.
Ten years ago, the relatively innocuous United Kingdom Men’s Movement website could not even get a listing on the internet search engines!
It was banned!
My first site got no listings, and then it was completely shut down by the servers when I started complaining to various advertisers on those search engines.
Five years ago, Amazon and Google were blocking my site from participating in their advert programs.
Not any more!
MRAs have had to battle away against very powerful forces just to get themselves a small niche at the public discussion table.
But MRAs are changing this. And when we get into the mainstream – WHICH WE GODDAMN WILL – then you will see all hell break loose; politically speaking – because there is just no way that the continued disadvantaging of men will be able to continue.
Yes, men are quite content at the moment. But they will be even more content when they do not have to walk on eggshells when dealing with women or children, or when speaking their minds about feminism and political correctness. They will be more content when their streets are safer and when they are treated more justly in the courtrooms. And they will certainly be more content when they do not have to work for more than four days a week; which, at the moment, they need to do in order to pay ridiculous amounts in taxes simply to keep many government workers in jobs that are just not needed.
But, perhaps more importantly, as far as the future is concerned, men need to steer matters to go THEIR way – in a direction that is where ‘men’ want to go.
Not where women want to go, or governments, or big businesses etc etc; but where ‘men’ want to go.
For example, if ‘men’ want sexbots, then they must have them.
But, as I said above, the way matters are heading at the moment, such things just will not happen. They will be banned.
And this is why, for example, ‘men’ must take over the media and the government.
Finally, I have NEVER suggested that feminist policies have been rolled back to any significant extent – though there have been some victories. And, in MANY areas, feminist policies actually continue to roll forward – much to my annoyance
But the MM is VERY DEFINITELY growing. And, as a consciousness, it is actually growing quite fast at the moment.
And there WILL come a point where the MM will dwarf all other groups.
There is absolutely no stopping this movement.
And please take note that this movement does NOT need to engage the active support of most men in order to gain huge momentum.
Just a million will do!
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Thanks Harry. I don’t care if just you, me, and handful of activist ninjas have to keep up the good fight, we will win. The more of us, the easier it will be, but truth needs no army. Eventually the pendulum will swing back. There are forces beyond us at work. I’d like to think MRM can swing the pendulum back before western society collapses or neuters itself, but if it has to be a rebirth by apocolypse, so be it, our message will be heard one way or another. God bless you.
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And Harry…I’m not just all talk. I’ve got some plans brewing in the corners of my mind. Effective in their simplicity. A couple events that will shine a spot light on our efforts. They are probably a few years out, as I feel the current momentum of our movement may preclude their necessity, but if things wane, I promise to take action. I’m a bit of an atttention whore by nature, I’ve always had a knack for getting noticed, so it will hardly be a sacrifice, as risky as it might be to my reputation as an upstanding citizen. My childhood dream was always to be a famous artist. Lets just say “art” has a pretty loose definition now and days, and I don’t really draw a distinction between famous and infamous in terms of artistic notoriety, so it will be a win-win for me and the movement, as long as it is something people won’t be able to ignore. Maybe I will call it “The Angry Harry Event” in your honor. Forgive my pretentiousness. Bold actions start with bold ideas, and bold ideas sometimes start with pretentiousness. Fewer people stumble upon greatness, as do those who dig in their heels and fight for it. I’d like to make a mark. I’d like to at least be a footnote in the history books. I’m at least going to die knowing I gave it a shot.
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@Jabherwochie
I understand your mood perfectly. It’s like having continually to hold back one’s ‘explosion’ in the hope that it will not actually be necessary. LOL!
I often wonder what I would do if I learned that I had a terminal illness.
Would I just say, “Oh sod it, I’ll spend my waning time doing absolutely whatever I please.”
And then I think, “Hmm. What would please me a lot?”
And, most unfortunately, I think that what would please me the most is delivering as many debilitating blows to feminism as I could possibly deliver.
And if I did have a terminal illness then I would probably not care a jot about any negative repercussions (legal, social etc) that might befall me.
What, exactly, I would do, I just don’t know.
Unlike you, I have no artistic capabilities, and there is no glaringly obvious route that I could take.
One think that I’ve thought about is using my internet experience to maraud around the place causing serious alarm to various groups, and planning it all so that their response will have to be very public. But I’d better not say too much lest I undermine any future action! LOL!
Suffice it to say that I would love to deliver a cognitive nuclear weapon against feminism.
And then I could pass away content in the knowledge that I had at least significantly wounded the mighty beast.
Preferably, however, I would like to live long enough to see it destroyed completely; with future generations spitting venom in the direction of those scumbags who created and supported it.
One day, Jabherwochie, people will realise that feminism was nothing more than an ideology based on hatred.
And when they do, our task will be over.
…..
Goodness knows what I’ll do with myself!
LOL!
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Sorry to comment on an old post, but readers might be interested to learn that the world’s first sex bot will be unveiled in Los Angeles this week :
http://truecompanion.com/
http://www.tonybonesxxx.com/blog/?tag=roxxxy-truecompanion
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Hey I think Jessica Valenti looks a lot beter than the Barbie. Don’t know about her personality though a good spanking might improve it.
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Most hot girls are indeed
much stupider than a Sex Robot
Still
I wouldn’t fuck Jessica Valenti
with your
dick
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I don’t think feminists have anything to be threatened from by sex dolls. Sex dolls will never replace human beings. You can’t talk to a sex doll about anything and you can’t use it for companionship. No matter how advance we get, until we reach Terminator levels of advancement, it won’t be able to simulate a full experience that way. And good luck getting that doll to offer you support if you genuinely need it, and have no friends. >_> Also, one of the things that’s most enjoyable about sex is the interaction with the other person’s body: the smells, feeling the person’s breasts, the moisture…if a sex doll didn’t include these things in an adequate simulation, I’m not sure how appealing I’d find it. The whole rubber look as it stands right now is kind of a turn-off, because I don’t want to be reminded I’m fucking a mannequin. I don’t want just a woman to pump into while I finish. I wouldn’t mind having an android like Cameron from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, though. She looks like a real life person, probably functions like one too. And if any anti-Gay bigots or opponents of any of the other causes I advocate came after me, I’d just send her after them. She would never stop. ;D They could blow holes in her and everything, and she would never stop. She’d make for great conversation too. A lot of interesting information stored up in that electronic brain.
Of course, women are going to protest anyway, but I think most of the ones with real sanity and open-mindedness to them will ignore it. It’s a sex toy. It’s like the simulation of the female hips that you mount that you can buy from some sex toy sites, only with a top portion and some boobs to grab. >_> The only women who are going to be threatened by this are the ones who have nothing to offer but their “coochie”, and don’t treat men respectfully. Which ultimately makes sense, I suppose. I imagine men who only live to fuck and enjoy sports would be made obsolete by a male model of the bot, if they ever came out with one.
“One day, Jabherwochie, people will realise that feminism was nothing more than an ideology based on hatred.”
The problem is that there were some places in which women were being oppressed and discriminated against, both in and outside of the workplace. Women were also being oppressed in terms of their sexuality, the same way many men are now being made to feel ashamed of being male by extreme feminists. The female orgasm was virtually ignored, and regardless of where you stand on the view of women and men alike, no gender should be denied information about their bodies simply because it’s not “appropriate” in the view of some religious zealots (and what better topic to bring this up than in a topic about sexbots!). I’m of the opinion that nobody should paid less because of their gender, race, religion, etc. Man, woman, or space alien from Andromeda, you should get paid based on the merits of the job you’re doing and how important it is to the organization. (and I’ve seen some of them who don’t do that, so this isn’t a ‘complete’ myth as some Men’s web sites claim – Call the boss an asshole, if you want, who’s just a prick and doesn’t value the workers, but he’s still doing it on the basis of discrimination.). If some moron isn’t doing a good job and a female worker is, you sure as hell better believe I’m not gonna pay him more simply because he’s a man! I’ll pay the female worker the same wage he makes, and he can go improve his performance, or else I’ll fire his ass! The same goes for a woman working in the position who doesn’t do the work and wants to rely solely on her “woman” card to coast along.
I’m kind of on the fence about that statement the poster made, because I don’t think all feminism is based on hatred. Some movements can be based on making progress. Would you say your own movement is based entirely on hatred of women, or are you genuinely interested in equality for both men and women? I’d think the real goal of any men’s movement would be to get women to treat men better/respectfully and vice versa, and be more gentle with their criticisms, if they’re valid. I’m not saying that to be judgmental, I’m genuinely curious about this. I’m sure this must have been answered in an earlier thread at one point, but since that quote is very prominent, I’m rather reluctant to let it go (and post my queries on another post, where it won’t be as significant).
The problem is that when it comes to some feminists, they’ve taken that ideology past its logical conclusion. There are places where women are paid less than men, and there are places where men are discriminated against in court and other social institutions. Instead of concentrating on stamping out ‘injustice’ in general, women in these sexist movements have decided to destroy men in a social manner. In turn, men get angry and want to destroy women for the injustices the courts and some sexist women’s groups have inflicted on them. Both groups are falling victims to psychotic ideas unleashed by a very small group of people; ideas that somehow catch on with a larger group of people and almost become like viruses spreading throughout society. Asshole men oppressed women several decades ago, bitter women form groups to strike back at all men in response, and the cycle goes on forever, with regular people getting caught in the middle. Not all women are evil, and not all men are oppressors. In fact, each group has a mix of influences. There are some women who are psychopaths, but speaking for myself, some of the men in the Men’s Rights movement seem psychotic and almost serial killer-like in their hatred of women. I wouldn’t let them near my mom or my friends, that’s for sure. In fact, I’d probably shoot first and ask questions later if they took a step near my relatives, because I know what’s going on in their minds and can’t trust them not to harm the people I care about because they’re bitter about women and want some revenge. Even though I’m critical of radical feminists’ agendas, some of these guys give me that “I’ll kill and rape any woman who isn’t pregnant and barefoot in a kitchen” vibe and that’s not cool, no matter who you are.
There was a guy earlier who made a comment so foul, so abhorrent, that even for a passive critic of women and men such as myself, I was deeply offended. That guy definitely shouldn’t be having sex with anyone if he’s so repulsed by the human body, that’s for sure. Not with a woman, not with a sexbot, not even with a plastic glove shaped like a pussy.
That’s definitely a misogynist, and contrary to what some people think, it is not a badge of honor – anymore than misandry is.
This may seem like an unusual subject matter, given the topic of the article, but since I’ll probably never post here again, I’m compelled to ask it. What do you guys think about your mother and your sisters or relatives, if you have any? Assuming they weren’t abusive and actually were decent human beings – the former is a valid reason to hate them, obviously. I’m not trying to lecture you, I’m genuinely curious about that. I’ve had a bad experience with a girlfriend before. That doesn’t mean I go hate my mother violently. Or are mothers and sisters and other relatives not real women? I’d think they’d disagree. And I’m not automatically siding with the woman either This is all based purely on logic. (I’m a nerd by traditional standards, and ever since high school, I tend to think almost purely on logical terms.) I try to analyze subjects like these, whether it be sexist matters or racial oppression, etc, and there are assholes on both sides. I realize this is a ‘safe place’ to talk about your frustrations with women and so forth, and ‘safe places’ run by minorities generally don’t encourage discussion, only agreement, but part of the danger of safe places if you ask me is that you get used to hearing the same point of view over and over again, you’ll grow to accept any bullshit that comes your way. And it’s not just women; I’m a Latino guy – I know damn well not all white guys are the displaced angels some men’s magazines make them out to be, nor are the men.
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Some people ask why the Men’s Rights movement doesn’t attract more activists, seeing as how there are many worthy causes out there. The reason is because people are prejudiced in other ways. I’m not going to join up with some guy who’s going to turn to the tables of oppression on me after he’s done “taking care of women”, because he’s white and now he needs another person to target. Hell no. Or some guy who’s been oppressed by the racial majority in charge, and after he fixes what’s wrong with women, suddenly decides that everyone in the majority or who’s different than him has to go, for us to get real peace – one “enemy” for another. I want justice for everyone, not a few douchebags to decide what goes for everyone who’s different than them. Just look at the men who are hateful of gays in the sci-fi posts that were dominating a while back. Many of them are homophobes – walking, breathing filth that shouldn’t be opening their mouths anywhere…unless it’s to stuff a dirty pair of underwear in them.
And they ASSUMED that I, because I am straight male and of a young age, should also be hateful of gays and agree that “ah, they’re taking over the airwaves and corrupting our youzt! Someone save us from teh Gaye Suck!” (Intentional misspelling there, folks.) That’s not cool, and it’s morons like that that turn me off the Men’s Rights movement. I don’t want to associate with scum like that just to get back at women. It’s not worth it, because after they’re done with women, they’re just going to get back at another target, and another, until all that is left is people like them – No room for exceptions! It’s one thing to be a traditional male (fighter, sports, beer, etc) and be proud of that. It’s another thing to be an asshole. And the assholes have got to go!
Back on the subject, though, with regards to that quote I highlighted. Not all causes of social progress are based on hatred, even if some *DO* have darker aspirations for their movements. And so what if some of it is based on hatred? Is that really so such a wrong concept for starting a revolution from?
Hatred can be a powerful motivator. Black people hated being discriminated against in the 50′s, 60′s, and earlier decades. So they took to the streets and got some progress done. Had they not had that dislike of the system driving them, and the desire for equality, they wouldn’t have gotten anything done! But you have to know when to stop. If you desire to destroy the whole system, then you’re no longer fighting for justice. Now you’re a revolutionary or the head of a rebellion. The question is whether it’s for good or for bad. Sometimes the whole system does need to be done away with (think the Galactic Empire here, for a fictional example; North Korea for a real one.) Other times, you have to stop and think “Wait a minute, we got what we wanted. Now we just have to iron out the kinks.” Sometimes that can take decades, but do you really want to destroy an entire system if it’s not necessary? And trust me, I’ve dealt with some truly vicious women, so I’m not just being subservient to the feminist movement for no reason. In fact, much of my time is spent ranting against the injustices that extreme feminists inflict on men. There are different types of feminists as well; they’re not all psychopaths, and some take offense at being associated with the nuts. There are some sex positive feminists around; I was talking to one last night, and trust me, this girl definitely does not hate men.
The other issue that bugs me about the Men’s Rights movement is whole ‘need to go back to the 1950′s model of society’ thing. I don’t WANT to go back to that era, and neither do many other men, and it’s not because they’re oppressed. What would you guys teach your daughters, if you have any? I sure wouldn’t want to teach my daughter to let men treat her like a doormat just because ‘things were nice’ a few decades ago. *shudder*. I shudder when I think of those days, in the 50′s and 60′s. On the other hand, I’m sure as hell going to teach my son not to let women walk all over him just because they’re women! There has to be balance. There are many women out there who truly abuse the influence they have over men and their lives in any social setting. On the other hand, that doesn’t excuse the guy who went out of his way to rape women here, accosting them while they were jogging and breaking into their apartments (I live in Philadelphia; we have a lot of major crime here) . So there are some guys that don’t get it too. I’m new to the men’s movement, and I’m really only looking into it for research purposes. But one of the reasons I’m reluctant to associate with it is because some of the reactions are a little…extreme. I hate women who discriminate against men, but I sure don’t want to kill all women or brutalize them into the ground either. Again, I’m not saying the first statement to chide anyone (the one about daughters and relatives, for clarity’s sake). I’m genuinely curious about this. But there was one guy above who had a VERY negative reaction about the female body (can’t remember who), and I can only imagine him telling that to his daughter or close relative and expecting her to grin and bear it. (Sorry for the all-caps, by the way. I know I’ve use of them several times throughout this post, but it was all in the interest of highlighting a couple subjects. I read the rules and I know all-caps are not allowed usually in posts. Plus, some other readers used it here, so I figured it was okay. If not, I apologize.)
Funny, I was originally just going to post about the sexbots, but that quote got me all inspired to make a long, drawn-out post. I hate it when that happens. >_> Seriously, I get all tired out from writing the thing, and it drains the memory from the computer, since I have to leave the Web page open all day while I finish the post. But it just won’t leave my mind until I post it!
Oh, and I think Jessica Valenti looks hotter than the sexbot. The latter looks to much like an anime simulation made for fans of a Japanese series. >_> Of course, given the source of the creation that should be no surprise. No, it’s no comparison – not yet. Give me some of that real T-888 skin that Terminators are covered in, and then we’ll talk! ;D Or at least a reasonable enough substitute. I don’t demand perfection, just something that looks like an actual human being and not a rubber person. (That’s probably what she feels like too, or like a mannequin.)
I wouldn’t want a world where society was divided between men and women though, each living in different cities. I’d want the opportunity to at least try to get close to a woman, even if it didn’t work out. There’s also the issue of companionship. I don’t relate well to men, because I don’t share many of the interests regular men do. So if there were only men to communicate with about football and beer…well, that robotic bodyguard could always put me out of my misery. ;D
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xuchilbara96e, trust me, most of us DO NOT want to go back to the 1950s.
Since you’ve given this a lot of thought, I’d simply suggest you stick around and read a bit more. There are a lot of different voices published here on The Spearhead, and we have learned to live with these diverse points of view.
We’re in it to make the world a better place for men. Arguably, it will be better for women, too, but that’s not really our concern at this point — they’ve got more than enough propping them up over the rest of humanity, so we’ve got to focus on the real injustices that occur every day.
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Have you read any MRM sites, or are you just making shit up?
I didn’t read the rest of your posts. I was skimming past and happened to catch this particular FACEPALM. For the rest of it, tl;dr.
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”””””’ I’m of the opinion that nobody should paid less because of their gender, race, religion, etc. Man, woman, or space alien from Andromeda, you should get paid based on the merits of the job you’re doing and how important it is to the organization. (and I’ve seen some of them who don’t do that, so this isn’t a ‘complete’ myth as some Men’s web sites claim – Call the boss an asshole, if you want, who’s just a prick and doesn’t value the workers, but he’s still doing it on the basis of discrimination.). If some moron isn’t doing a good job and a female worker is, you sure as hell better believe I’m not gonna pay him more simply because he’s a man! I’ll pay the female worker the same wage he makes, and he can go improve his performance, or else I’ll fire his ass! The same goes for a woman working in the position who doesn’t do the work and wants to rely solely on her “woman†card to coast along.”””””””””
Large corporations already have things called job descriptions and they all have the same pay for the same job description.
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Of course performance of those jobs will be diferent.
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””””””Asshole men oppressed women several decades ago,””””””
lol woman were allowed to stay in the home and not work. They could have had plenty of time to start businesses and do what they wanted. Get books from the library and learn about new things. Business books and books about almost every concievable thing have been in the library for some time and woman have had access to that for quit some time as well.
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Violet Blue (tinynibbles.com) also had some disparaging comments about the dolls. For the most part, Violet seems to be an intelligent life form and is almost always willing to debate an issue without shaming or browbeating.
I can’t believe that so many female commentators mention the “lack of personality and opinion” in the dolls without mentioning the same in dildos and vibrators! At least the doll represents an entire body. The toys are only the part (other than a paycheck) the interest too many women.
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Men have been dreaming up imaginary girls for centuries, even writing about them, like Shakespeare’s “Dark Lady”. The sexbot is just one step towards men materializing those imaginary girlfriends in a truly TANGIBLE FORM.
The robots will eventually get so advanced they will become more and more lifelike and customizable. You want your girl to have certain features and a particular body type? Fire away! What do you want?
You want a hot Latina chick with a D-cup chest and a hard, muscular physique like Denise Masino? We can do that! A skinny ass anorexic girl that looks like Kate Moss? We gotcha covered! You wanna fembot that looks and acts like your ex-wife BEFORE your marriage hit the 2-year mark, before she traded in her breathtakingly athletic body for 350 lbs of useless chicken flab? Baby, just sign here, here, and here!
And so and so forth.
As for porn?
Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if the sexbot were to render pornography obsolete. Or rather, pornography will morph into software programs that you can install on the sexbot that will enable her to engage in particular fantasies and fetishes.
After all, why jack off to the image or footage of somebody ELSE enjoying your favorite fantasy when you can make that very fantasy a reality with your own robot sex slave? Because that’s all that pornography is. It’s a vicarious form of wish-fulfillment. That’s why it’s so successful. But it won’t be so successful once men are able to make those wishes come true for themselves, let me tell you!
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Sex bots are coming, and no one on earth can stop it.
Ban them? We’ll build and buy them anyway.
Do SWAT raids to enforce said ban? We’ll overthrow your fracking country.
The only consistent criticism so far has been “they have no personality” and “they have no opinions”. In my experience, I could say most women have personalities so bad, that no personality is an improvement. And frankly, many female opinions are of matters that in all honesty, are vapidly trivial. And given enough time, the programming will improve to the point where they’ll pass the Turing Test. And after that, who would choose a harpy trapping them into a continuous cycle of misery to support them, married or divorced, over a never aging companion that fulfills a man sexually, and as models and software approach real strong AI, are a fulfilling intellectual partner as well?
So it looks like women better get started on what’s so compelling a reason to pick them over a machine that does the same functions without being exploitative.
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