“Game just makes men less evolved, less motivated, and more “cock-driven” toward defeat.”

wrong. First off, the notion of “less evolved” is a non-possibility. we are equally evolved, some behave in different ways than others.

but, yes, men are cock-driven. they are that way *without* Game. PUA types who go out every night just to get women are a completely different animal than the one I’m talking about. Game attempts to increase options to decrease the value placed on any given woman. Value placed on other women is a true weapon against other women. it is virtually the same as “not caring” and being “nonchalant” that you are saying is men’s only plausible strategy against female pussy power.

as i said to paul elam, men’s nature is to chase tail; given that we can’t really do much about that desire, we might as well adopt knowledge, behavior, and strategies that make it easier on us. it still gives women – as a whole – power, but it aids the man because it doesn’t give a particular woman his complete devotion. this is the key.

I respect Gamers, I expect gamers to respect me. I don’t see what the problem is.

I had to comment on this because it sort of tells it all about why men will always be “chasing women” and women will always “be running” and controlling sex.

You guys are STILL handing women the ultimate weapon in exactly that: being obsessed with pussy. There are a lot of these silly “man-groups” that talk about the “horsemen” (LR laughs uncontrollably) and all these weapons against women. Sadly, these all involve sex.

Once again, men seem to have not caught on that as long as you are all obsessing about, blogging about, having conventions and classes about, and actually becoming violent and crazy over PUSSY and sex, you will continue to give women the upperhand.

Sort of like the smugness about how “women will learn their lesson” when sexbots are the “norm” (laughs uncontrollably again). Just for an example…..I think that sexbots and legalizing prostitution is a GREAT idea because as women we can have sex whenever and with virtually whomever we want to, JUST by showing up and looking half decent.

It’s not a “myth” about women. We don’t care about sex, we like it…..but it’s something easily attainable and we don’t even really think about it unless it’s actually happening right then and there. Men cannot fathom this because they are completely the opposite by nature.

The day men learn to control themselves, NOT care whether or not they get laid, and just do their own thing (like women do) THEN you will have an effective “weapon” against the female gender.

Until that day, the fact that these many Game Blogs, PUA Communities, and other silliness exist……is proof that women still hold all the cards.

PUA’s aren’t “empowering” men. They are just teaching them to wipe EACHOTHER out…..grab the scraps left over from the Alpha before you…..and try to “get laid” as much as possible. Men’s desire for sex and sexual gratification is their biggest weakness as a gender and also against themselves. Game just makes men less evolved, less motivated, and more “cock-driven” toward defeat.

We seem to be going in circles here. I’ll try again to clarify.

But what I’m saying is that you can’t say that some MRAs are actually MRAs and the ones you don’t agree with aren’t MRAs. They are all MRAs; some you agree with, some you don’t. I’m pointing out the ones I disagree with.

Here is what I actually said:

“While there are real misogynists that hang around MRM circles, there are very few, if any, of them that get anything done. I think the only real exception might be Dick Masters, who most MRA’s would not consider one of us. Most of the misogynists just make noise around forums, and that is where they stop and start because real misogyny is as corrupt as misandry but it doesn’t get the social props. It is just dead weight that has no real bearing in the MRM.”

So where in this is my proclamation of what is and isn’t an MRA? If anything I never said exactly that these men were or were not MRA’s, but only that they had no real power within the movement, and that most MRA’s would not consider men like Masters to be one. He doesn’t consider himself one either, BTW. And so I think it goes back to my first response. Even though I didn’t make the claim you allege, I can express an opinion on it, just as you can claim that those men ARE MRA’s, even without evidence that they embrace the label.

It’s circuitous and pointless to pursue this part any more.

Pussy centrism is the bane of our existence and the reason for it.

Alas, agreement.

Pussy will always be powerful. Men will go into an uncontrollable frenzy for it. It is stronger earlier in life. As I said, men have to deal with this fact. We can make it easy on ourselves or hard on ourselves. The best way to handle it is to increase your options to prevent one-itis. Pussy power is strongest when it has a certain market cornered (one man willing to commit to it).

I think you assume from my article that I advocate doing anything at all to get a woman. There are absolutely proper ways to go about handling women. Learning Game prevents us from the inevitability of acting the fool and doing stupid things in the name of pussy. It depedestalizes pussy, but this also entails some extra competition against other men. It is necessary and good. Collusion with other men is untenable.

And again, Chuck, with all respect, this is the crux of the communication gap between us. I don’t disagree with anything you said there. In fact, I heartily agree with it. What I disagreed with and still do, most vehemently, is this:

I place MRAs into two broad categories – those who dislike feminism and its results and those who dislike women because they are women. The latter being misogynists.

And I found it especially objectionable when on the heels of my comments you claim that I, apparently unlike you, don’t have the ability to say what which MRA’s are real and which aren’t. By your very own words you are claiming just that ability.

But the core of this issue isn’t fruitless bickering about who said what. It is, IMO, a matter of experience and perspective. I would be happy to publish a good article defining and advocating Game on MND because it is relevant to the current state of men and masculinity. I have no issue with it in concept or practice.

But what I think that you are failing to consider is that men have long betrayed themselves with the forces that drive Game in the first place and that this is the chief enabler of female elitism, aka feminism.

I think it is pretty natural that MRA’s take a stern look at the forces that undermine them, regardless of what those forces are called in the modern lexicon. And since it is only recently that MRA’s have begun to quiet their railing about feminism and begin to look at male complicity in the sad state of affairs, you will likely see more MRA’s point the finger at Game and just say, “more of the problem.”

As in my “Letter to Men” posted here in the forum.

I think the way to counter that is to clarify your message that Game is actually a way of managing the male sex drive so that it is not destructive to men, rather than start tossing out words like misogynist and equating that with one of only two MRA camps.

You seemed aware of those sensitivities in your original piece. I just think you should have taken that awareness a big step further.

“And I think if you read my post thoroughly you should see that I acknowledged the misogynists exist, just that they were not potent or important.”

But what I’m saying is that you can’t say that some MRAs are actually MRAs and the ones you don’t agree with aren’t MRAs. They are all MRAs; some you agree with, some you don’t. I’m pointing out the ones I disagree with. You have to take the good with the bad. Somehow, we say that feminists behave a certain (usually negative way), when they try to say “oh well those aren’t *real* feminists” we call them on that. I’m merely calling men on the same thing.

“And pussy centrism hasn’t exactly worked very well for men in modern times. It’s highly debatable that it ever has. ”

Pussy centrism is the bane of our existence and the reason for it. In my piece I say that I feel anti-Gamers want to do away with the natural inclinations of men which involve competing against other men for women, but those inclinations aren’t always a bad thing.

“It was simply called “playing the field” in years past and it didn’t require such trivial dissection, or the false elevation to an art form.”

In today’s age, “playing the field” in the way you mean only serves naturals. If we aren’t going to marry a woman (why would we want to at this point) it would be nice to have some sexual companionship with a good-looking woman from time to time. Female hypergamy and government-as-*alpha*-provider means that so many men are priced out of the dating market. The paradigm has shifted, men have had to adopt Game to keep up with it. So, no, this Game isn’t as old as your grandma’s toes; its a completely different thing.

“It is more clearly defined to me as MRA’s not having a great deal of respect for, and I say this euphemistically, “pussy hounds” more interested in notches on belts than on the sad state of affairs for men and boys.”

I agree. Many MRAs think that us young’uns are acting irresponsibly. You are exactly right, it involves *no* misogyny. That’s why I said I wasn’t implying that all anti-Game MRAs are misogynistic. I’m speaking about the ones who dislike Game, not because of male behavior, but because every woman is a whore or is out to steal your money and therefore unworthy of our time. I’ve seen the term “Ameriskank” tossed around.

“The power of pussy is in the obsession with it.”

Pussy will always be powerful. Men will go into an uncontrollable frenzy for it. It is stronger earlier in life. As I said, men have to deal with this fact. We can make it easy on ourselves or hard on ourselves. The best way to handle it is to increase your options to prevent one-itis. Pussy power is strongest when it has a certain market cornered (one man willing to commit to it).

I think you assume from my article that I advocate doing anything at all to get a woman. There are absolutely proper ways to go about handling women. Learning Game prevents us from the inevitability of acting the fool and doing stupid things in the name of pussy. It depedestalizes pussy, but this also entails some extra competition against other men. It is necessary and good. Collusion with other men is untenable.

” the emotional remoteness that women seem drawn to and submit to. ”

” I didn’t even mention that men want to marry a pure women, whether this is rational or fair or not, it just is the way it is. ”

Both true statements.

Of all the pussifications of the American man, the one that surprises me the most is his willingness to marry a non-virgin.