Mailbag: Letter from an Omega

Nice post.

I would go further and say that women tend to judge men more on their prowess with women, than men judge other men. Men are much more oriented toward accomplishments (and seduction is just one accomplishment among many).

Knowing the truth is always better than living in lies, no matter how painful it might be.

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Elliot, allow me to take a crack at this. You can read some of my story at my blog, as well as an ongoing attempt to address the things you ask about, but let me address you specifically.

One you seem to be pretty angry. I don’t blame you. If a lot of people have treated you like crap over a long period of time you’re going to be angry. It’s perfectly normal and in fact healthy.

You also seemed to have internalized a lot of the negativity you’ve received. This is also normal, hard to avoid, but you must reverse this. The fact is you are not a bad person. Most of your status and the other factors of your life are outside of your control. Feeling bad about yourself is pointless. All you can do is the best you can with what you have where you are.

People, especially Americans, have a deep need to believe the world is just, and that people get what they deserve. So if you are poor, or have a crappy job, or no girlfriend, it must be because you are fundamentally undeserving of it. Most people like to think most people are good, and if you don’t think that it’s sour grapes. But life at the bottom is harder.

For most people, but especially the low status male, thinking or worrying about political or cultural things is a big waste of time. You have an uphill struggle and need to focus on the basics of how you are going to survive and hopefully get some of the things that will make you happy.

Will Game, or “game”, or game, or whatever you want to call it help you? Yes, but frankly I don’t think most purveyors have what is going to help you specifically. They tend to focus on guys higher up the food chain, like a guy who wants to trade in his annoying 7 girlfriend for a sweet 8.5.

Elliot, good luck and keep trying.

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@ Elliot

Reading this exchange gave me a lot to ponder. I am an MRA of the older variety, and so the tenets of Game may be somewhat lost on me, and I may well find myself corrected.

In my experience, Omegas have a tendency to hold wilting, rejected flowers in one hand while scratching their heads in confusion with the other as they meet repeated rejections. I know this because I was one of them at one time.

My story is simple. I was, until the age of 39, a card carrying pussy looking for pussy. I spotted a woman I wanted and set about to win her over. Sometimes, but rarely, it worked. I was totally unaware the whole time that what I thought was “chasing pussy” was in reality just a way to demean myself in the eyes of women, subsequently making me even less sexually desirable.

But still, my “technique” worked well enough to get a woman to marry me and set about ruining my life as much as possible. It occurred to me during the divorce that I had gotten exactly what I was deserved when using obsequiousness as a weapon in my pussy hunting arsenal. I had, in fact, been fishing with stink bait and I caught a bottom feeder.

Duh.

Shortly after the divorce I almost found myself at it again. e.g. calculating ways to “please” women into having sex with me or loving me or both. I don’t know what happened, perhaps intervention from The Divine, but I found myself applying the brakes and saying to myself “hold the fucking show.”

And then, as if by magic, I knew what to do. I joined a social club and started going to about half of their events. I arrived late, left early, appeared preoccupied, and did all but completely ignore the women there. I watched the other men doing what I used to do and getting shot down left and right.

Swear to heavens, within just three or four weeks women were coming on to me. I responded enough to demonstrate interest and then just backed off. Eventually one of them, whom I will call Amy, drug me to her place and fucked my brains out.

I never called her after that and it hurt her feelings. She complained to the other women in the group that I had fucked her and dropped her. They patted her on the back and one by one came my way.

I quickly, like I said in a month or less, went from being a guy that usually felt like a failure with women to a guy who had them coming out of the woodwork begging to be fucked.

And what also started as strategy ended up simply being who I was as a man.

Keep in mind that I am not an unattractive man, nor am I any kind of example of sexual magnetism, and I have come to be convinced that this isn’t what matters anyway unless you are 200 lbs overweight or have the face of a turkey vulture. Even then your sexual life can be improved.

It is important to know that whether it is by experience or training, that a man, ANY man, can put himself in a position to be the one doing the choosing.

Then you can join the rest of the Alphas in their endless struggles to combat narcissism and fend off high maintenance in nearly all he women they attract.

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What does Game have to each every man, regardless of whether he’s a monk or natural womaniser? Not to be a woman’s man but to be a man’s man, his own man. Not to befriend or plead with women, not to kneel at their feet. All will then work to your advantage, from the sense of your own pride and dignity to the attraction of women themselves to other spheres of masculine life.

The caution you’re pointing out is the Game initially tells you to artificially adopt this attitude, instead of internalise it. It’s urged very much to actually implement because actually being able prove to yourself that you have options with regards to women helps you disregard them; they have a much lesser hold on you and your behaviour then**, as well as acquaintance with their dark sides helps remove myths around their natures.

** e.g. your thinking is along the lines of ‘I only need to step up my Game if I want to be attractive to women.’ or ‘My natural personality is actually more attractive to women than the wrongheaded courtship behaviours I’ve been previously performing.’

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One thing that comes across from Elliots post is that he is concerned about his status as a man by being judged for his sexual provess. I have taken from game that one must first validate oneself before hoping for validation from others.

In todays world there is a lack of archetypal sources for men to draw upon. There is only the “White knight” but the saint or the don juan is viewed as outdated. One need not look far back to a time when being a man could mean many things, as told in the stories of warriors and warlocks, saints and and the don juans.

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@Elliot-

The greatest strength an Omega has, and its the same thing that makes a thug in the hood scary, is he has nothing to loose. That was a big help to me, even though I was more of a Beta, as I always had a sharp tongue and was willing to fight. Start to see yourself as an empty vessel. Then move on to filling yourself up with game (or if that is too big a leap, something that creates status in the eyes of the general populace, and then move to game.)

And jerk off all the time. There is no shame in it, and it will clear your mind and ease your nerves. Don’t get caught.

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One of my problems with Game, which Todd White and Elliott point out, is the inherently degrading worldview that is a result of embracing the philosophies of Game and evolutionary psychology out of context.  Most supporters of Game merely argue that it is what it is.  Humanity and human nature are ugly so get over it.  But to me this is too simple an answer.  Do women, by their very nature, typically only want to mate with thugs and practitioners of game, and raise children in fatherless broken homes?  In the west at the present moment, one could answer yes and present a host of evidence to support that claim.  But was it always this way throughout human history?
 
A strong argument could be made that the fact that a large portion of males who are healthy and financially stable (Betas) are hated and rejected by most women is a symptom of societal and cultural decay, not human nature or nature’s ideal for evolution.  The fact that using heroin could make me a junkie isn’t proof that it’s my nature to be a junkie.  Similarly, the fact that most women are amoral, and hookup with as many thugs and bad boys as possible in their youth, and then expect a nice guy or the “State” to pay for their offspring isn’t indicative that this is the norm and how it should be.  This is enabled through corrupt government and cultural decay.  Similarly, women’s behavior and taste in men has also been affected by this decay and a lack of quality men (i.e. fathers) and women (i.e. wise mothers and grandmothers) in their lives.
 
I won’t go into depth here, but the masculinization of women probably plays a large role in why you need Game these days to get a woman.  A normal healthy man doesn’t do it for them anymore.  They need someone who represents a hypermasculine ideal to get their juices flowing, whether it is a thug or a Gamer that fools them.  Again, this isn’t proof that this is simply the nature of women and how things are.
 

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Ferdinand, I think this addresses the symptoms and not the cause.

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Game can be practiced on any woman, anywhere. It will push the same buttons. It is about using tactics that elicit sexual attraction, the triggers of which are pretty much universal. I’ve seen not one spot of evidence to contradict that, seeing and interacting with women from many different corners of life.

Whether she acts or is free to act on that sexual attraction is what changes culturally, by personality and by her previous experiences. Factors based mostly in fear can overcome the sexual attraction. Factors like greed can lower her attraction threshold.

We are not merely animals. However, sex is primitive and our sexual desires come from the most central parts of our psyche. It is a huge part of what motivates us every day, what we find beautiful and our personal happiness. It’s not to the extent of Freud but its fundamental as part of our everyday thinking and of who we are.

There are outliers to this.

Still, it is useless to pretend that for most human beings, to be free from sexual connections playing a part in your life is not fighting your nature in a way that is upsetting and difficult.

To debase all matters of sexual desire as inferior and inferior to act on is a product of the modern secular times and perhaps tinged with the sinful associations in Catholicism. Other schools of thought have the act as sacrosanct, as having the potential for something higher, as powerful, as needed and fundamental, as accepted in human nature.

A man should have power and choice here; is there such shame in seeking to reassert himself in this sphere, to find a better level for him to be at, for him not to be a slave to his desires by being frustrated but to have them fulfilled at the cheapest cost to himself possible?

You’re much less obsessed with something once you have it. Game and its worldview is a logical step in a man’s sexual growth. Game is the only logical solution when marriage, religosity and masculinity are dead. Not merely dead, gleefully murdered.

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Bhetti: “Sex is primitive.”

TW: Personally, I don’t believe that the most enjoyable form of sex is “primitive.” Quite the contrary, in fact.

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TW:Personally, I don’t believe that the most enjoyable form of sex is “primitive.” Quite the contrary, in fact.
Bhetti: So we agree sex is and can be beyond primitive — not the exclusive domain of animals and those instincts — and important to the average human existence and experience.
TW: Those 3 things are alive in me (and most other people, for that matter). And even those who *think* they’re dead wish it weren’t so. They would never “gleefully murder” them.
Bhetti: Good for you, TW. Great that you don’t need Game. You’ll need to substantiate ‘most other people’ as the ’50% of marriages end in divorce’ statistic contradicts you, at the very glaringly obvious least. Why are you begrudging men learning lessons that they aren’t learning due to poverty of religosity, lack of lessons on masculinity and perversions of the meaning of the state of marriage perpetrated by culture and legislation?

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When passing down the generations, all genes (except for the few on the Y) spend exactly 50% of their time in male hosts, and 50% of their time in female hosts.

These little fuckers (the genes) are the real masters of the universe. We are just temporary busrides for them. They get on, enjoy the ride while you run around trying to stay alive and reproduce, and then at the right time they, or at least their copies, get off with each of your born offspring.

Adios Amigo! Thanks for the ride!

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“I am an omega male, so its quite clear why men being judged soley on thier sexual prowess would frighten and infuriate me, as it would reduce my worth as human being to fuck all. I am aware that many people would see me this way regardless. There are a few more things that worry me about this emmerging world view that seems to come with game, but I can’t really articulate them very well.”

I found this part to be particularly telling. From my observations, a good portion of women virulently hate men on the bottom of the sexual scale and will often judge men SOLELY by their place on that scale, which often these men have very little efficacy over in the first place. This isn’t so for men, at least from my experience. Despite the name, I don’t hate fat/ugly women at all and judge their value as a person mostly independently or at least less contingently upon their attractiveness and success with men. Maybe there are some men who hate all fat/ugly women solely for being fat, I don’t know. I’m certain though that more women despise sexually unattractive men independent of any other qualities than the other way around. I realize that not all women are like that NAWALT(tm), but it’s this group of women who I feel an intense unrestrained hatred for that I will probably never bring under control. The types that assume a man is worthless human refuse solely for being a beta/gamma/o m e g a regardless of his other qualities, talents, and accomplishments are the women I really dislike.

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The most knowledgeable woman (Bhetti) is schooling one of the two most thickheadedly, stubbornly, cognitively dissonant men (Todd White – the other being Justin), on Game.

This might be a first.

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Do you think that game could be used to benifit a mans life even if it never help him succeed in getting pussy?

ABSOLUTELY.

I have said about 10 times that the MOST valuable use of Game is for a man to no longer fall prey to manipulations, shaming language, and social pressures of women. The mere knowledge that white-knighting is a waste of time is valuable. The mere knowledge that females are hypergamous, and cause 90% of divorces, can make a man avoid certain well-concealed cultural traps. Game alone can save a man obscene amounts of money simply by not falling for the various tricks that sucker men out of money, and separating the bad apples from the good.

Getting laid is merely the SECOND most useful purpose of Game.

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Puma,

Who do you think you are preaching transhumanism to? I am one of the Top 10 Futurists in the world (www.singularity2050.com).

Needless to say, I have chosen to cover my bases on all fronts :

Game
Cryobank donation (sperm donation)
Wealth Accumulation
Avoidance of marriage
Transhumanism
Actuarial Escape Velocity

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…2050 is a cool site by the way. Thanks bro.

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Puma,

I also remind people here to get a donor egg + IVF + surrogate in India costs just $20,000. The kid will be yours, and you only have to visit India twice, 9 months apart. If you have enough money, you can even do 2 babies in parallel with 2 surrogates (and even 2 different egg donors).

Sure, two parents are always better, etc. This is NOT something the average man should attempt, but for men who really, really want to do it, and presumably have a mother/sister who wants to step up big-time in the Grandma/aunt role, this option does exist.

Hiring a nanny is cheaper than a wife.

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Yes a Nanny is cheaper than a Wife anyday. She can’t take away everything you have, including the kids, and enslave your future via CS/LifetimeAlimony.

Now with the Taylor-vs-Taylor ruling (ex-wife from 1982 divorce shows up 26 years later, and THEN gets lifetime alimony), no man can ever be entirely safe once he says “I do”.

A “wife” is a real bad plan. Real bad.

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Good analogy.

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So that means that if your wife fucks, say, your dad, you can’t leave her without giving up the kids, so long as she only does it once?

I wrote that so that the wife is somewhat more accomodating of the husband having a mistress from time to time.

One of the big flaws resulting from female solipism is the belief that a male cheating is as bad as a woman cheating, which it isn’t.

Anyway, no system is perfect, but the simple change I advocate (separate financial/custody rights from the ‘no fault’ concept) would avoid 90% of the injustices men face today. The last 10% will still remain, unfortunately.

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I think breaking up a marriage without cause (i.e. “no fault”) should be grounds for losing custody, because it’s obvious that one who does so is placing the children low on the list of priorities.

Agreed. An assumption that custody stays with the parent not seeking divorce regulates most instances of this.

The devil in the details of the divorce laws, and how they came to be, is that on the surface, the letter of the law seems equitable, but gender realities ensure that the man gets screwed 95% of the time, and the woman only 5% of the time, without it being obvious how such ‘gender neutral’ laws resulted in this outcome.

1) Husbands earn more than wives.
2) Women are hypergamous, and are cold enough to leave when there is profit in doing so.
3) Custody is given to the woman, and, knowing this, they make child support percentages ridiculously high.

But I still say that the prospect of losing access to the man’s finances AND not getting custody, by being the filer, will halt 90% of the female-initiated divorces that presently happen. 90% is not 100%, but still a huge improvement over the present (unsustainable) norm.

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TW: Let’s simplify things for you. Let me introduce you to Joe.
Joe: “Thanks to Game and consulting other men, I am no longer scared of you biting me when and if I ask for your number! I also can carry out a conversation, look like other women might desire me and show that I’m actually a fun guy. I have confidence. I also decided it would be an idea to actually go to the gym.”
Woman: “Here’s my number!”
Joe: “I only want to get laid, so will ask you for a total of three dates. Then we’ll both know we’re not looking for the same thing.”
Woman: “Don’t worry, in this day and age, I put out before then when attracted to you unless I’m Virgin Mary.”
Joe: “GAME: Less time, less cost, less lies for a modern guy like me.”
Woman: “Actually, me too!”
Joe: “Hey you’re not perfect but not so bad. A normal human being. Girlfriend time.”
TW: WHAT ABOUT MARRIAGE!?
Joe: “Dude, what century are you from? A man has to be careful. Did you know that I’d be a tard to do that because 50% of marriages end in divorce, 70% are initiated by women and I don’t want to have kids in a broken home, as well as a good fraction of my income lost in child support? Men have gone to jail over not being able to pay, for kids that aren’t even theirs. Also, her attraction is lessening for me and she’s not marriage material. If I’m going to marry her, I will get a prenup because I’m not fooled into believing women are angels who can be trusted. This doesn’t protect me from child support. If I didn’t learn Game, I wouldn’t have known a lot of the above. I would be in one big mess, assuming I managed to form a relationship with a woman in the first place.”
TW: Well, if you were religious and watched enough Clint Eastwood movies…
Joe: “Game’s easier to fit into modern life, its simple strategy speak easier for me to understand. I can watch an attractive man but I can’t necessarily understand what it is about him that’s attractive to women — especially with no role models at home and society telling me completely contradictory things like ‘be yourself’ or ‘be sensitive’ even legislating in such a way as to banish overt sexual overtures: Game shows me what’s attractive to women. I’m not going to embrace a religious lifestyle because I don’t believe in religion. Again, what century are you from? Women are encouraged to be bad girlfriends and bad wives; being empowered, being a bitch and being mercenary is encouraged and enabled. I look around me at married men and I mostly see men oppressed. I now have choices. I now know marriage is something I need to be convinced to do and to be very careful about who I do it with. This is all from Game. Most of the anger is from divorcees, guys in transition between thinking Game doesn’t work on women then finding it does — thus being angry they were ‘lied to’ — or men who’re betrayed by a woman. Game helps you understand what’s up with women in several different ways, so that you can avoid being a victim. ”

Abject Man: thoughts for you tomorrow.

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The Todd White/Bhetti exchange about Game could word for word be an exchange that Obsidian/Ferdinand have with Susan Walsh, DADT or some other Game-ignorant woman.

But this time the genders are reversed.

And this is the only man-woman combination in which such a complete reversal of genders in the Game debate is possible.

The only woman who gets Game well enough to explain it, trying to educate the only man who has totally failed to comprehend Game after months and months of all sorts of people trying to educate his limited intellect.

It is astonishing to be a spectator to this complete gender reversal.

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Oh, I forgot to refer to Todd White as : ‘Todd WhiteKnight’.

An oversight on my part.

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Porkchop,

Dude, you haven’t been following the insanities of Todd White. Feminists should pay him millions for the work he has done to swindle the average man.

Go here for starters :
http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/the-obsidian-todd-white-debates/

And the comments here :
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/11/02/women-cant-handle-competition-or-debate/

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Bhetti: I’m confused. Is Joe a real person or he is a character you developed?

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That’s a good point, Advocatus. I’ve long believed that the quest to feel superior to the great mass of humanity is a very common and dangerous drug that can come in many forms. “Game” (as practiced by the Roissysphere) is one of those forms.

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QUOTE:”All life, from protozoa to plants to puppies, is possessed of one primary goal – survival.”

Yes, very true.

Thus, if you are a White American, GET MARRIED and HAVE KIDS…the future SURVIVAL of the White race in this hemisphere depends on YOU; we Whites are currently losing the demographic battle — don’t live a life of selfish hedonism, it isn’t worth it and only leads to misery in time.

Secrets to a happier life for American Whites – http://www.toqonline.com/2009/11/secrets-to-a-happy-life/

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@ Todd White

The underlying basis of Game is that women are “wired” to need and respond to specific masculine qualities, including strength and dominance.

These qualities are expressed in various ways through Game, and Game isn’t limited to those techniques that make a woman want to fuck.

My problem is with the idea that, because Game can be used in ways that some consider less than ideal, Game is therefore somehow unnecessary or degenerate.

In fact, I think that actually understanding as much as possible about the knowledge that has been around in various forms for quite a long time, and which is now interpreted through Game, is essential in any dealings with women that go beyond the “what was your name again” level.

This includes any significant non-sexual interactions, and a successful relationship between a father and daughter is the simplest example.

The thing to notice is her innate submissive response (coupled with positive growth), but only to a masculine father figure. The response is to a man who is consistently attentive to her and to her well-being, and consistently firm in setting boundaries for her and enforcing compliance, and consistently in control of himself and never reacting at her level.

Seeing a compressed version of this firsthand was my first inkling that what women claimed to want and what they actually wanted weren’t even close.

I knew a family in which the man was as feminized as he could have been without getting his penis revoked. The wife ran the husband, but the daughter ran the family.

I watched the daughter turn from a sweet girl into some sort of lunatic brat that threw Olympic quality tantrums until she got her way.

In hindsight, I see that both the father and mother responded to their daughter in the same way that many men respond to their women.

They would argue with her as an equal, while fearing that they could lose. As she pushed things to the point at which they had, for some reason, decided that they would have to cave in to her demands, they would fly into a rage. At this point, she would run into her room, slam her door, and then do whatever she wanted.

To make a long story short, the father died in a car accident, and his last request was an invitation to his brother to rejoin the family. This came as quite a surprise, since they had been estranged for more than a decade, over philosophical differences.

The brother was a natural alpha with women and had, for lack of a better term, the calm of strength. He was always in control of himself and willing to do whatever was necessary. Consequently, as I came to understand, he rarely even had to raise his voice.

I drove him from the airport, and when we walked into their house, the mother and daughter were screaming at each other to the point that they either didn’t notice or care that they now had guests.

I was a bit flustered, but he just smiled at me, got a glass of water and sat down on the couch and watched. When the mother and daughter were so out of breath that they had to slow down, the mother started to threaten to call the police on her daughter.

At that point, the uncle got up, walked over to the niece who hadn’t seen him since she was five, picked her up under her arms and lifted her up to his eye level, and said in a very soft voice “I am going to listen carefully to everything you need to tell me, because you are very important. But, little girl, you are not in charge anymore.”

Her eyes got really big, and then she squeaked out “okay.” He put her down, and she hugged him.

The mother’s mouth was hanging open down to about her knees, and I wanted to check the back of the girl’s head for some kind of a switch.

And then the “strong and independent” mother said “please tell me what to do”.

It was at that point that I realized that my understanding of women was seriously fucked up.

My point is that we cannot ignore what women are and what they need, even if we would rather keep expecting them to be simply sweetness and light.

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“Getting laid is merely the SECOND most useful purpose of Game.”

Strangely, I agree with you. At least, I think I do if I understand what you’re saying.

Perhaps it’s the religious part of me speaking, but I think the first goal for everyone should be to improve themselves for their own sake. Becoming more attractive to the opposite sex is a pleasant byproduct of that. You can then take advantage of it or not, as it pleases you and as you are called to do.

The first rule should be: stop trying to get a date and get a life instead.

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HL: “Your entire argument rests with building up a straw man – by linking ‘Game’ to nothing more than ‘Darwinism.’”

TW: I’ve started to prefer the term “Reductionism” but “Darwinism” is fine too. They overlap. However, if Reductionism/Darwinism is a “straw man” – as you claim – then why did you bring up that “feeble seed” mumbo jumbo in your essay? That stuff is right out of the Reductionist playbook.

HL: “Women’s natural role is to find a man that she can submit to.”

TW: Her “natural” role or her “actual” role? There’s a difference. We’re not living in 500,000 B.C. We’re living in 2009. If you’re saying her “actual” role, I’m not sold on that assertion.

HL: “I never said women look for the MOST dominant. Only that they will never truly be attracted to a man that they can walk all over and control like a herbed-out kitchen bitch.”

TW: Yes, it’s hard to imagine a woman being attracted to a “kitchen bitch.” I would never encourage a man to act that way.

HL: “’Sincere Love’ can ONLY happen in a relationship in which the partners COMPLEMENT rather than COMPETE.”

TW: I agree, but it sounds like there’s a lot of competing for dominance in your paradigm (and the man must win every battle).

HL: “And that complementary state is all about the masculine complimenting the feminine and vice versa.”

TW: Yes for the most part, but I’m guessing I have a more fluid definition of “masculine” and “feminine” than you do.

HL: “If he demonstrates lower status…by deferring to her, by living in fear of her emotional state, her instinctive desire for hypergamy will make her lose respect, love and lust for him.”

TW: I would never recommend that a man surrender his better judgment to a woman or live in fear of her.

HL: “ You REFUSE to let go of your preconceived and mistaken notions about what ‘Game’ is. Game is not a foundation. It’s about recognizing the truth and using your knowledge of the truth to guide your behavior.”

TW: But Game is not in sync with the truth. And therein lies its problem.

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Roissy wrote:
‘Because men know there is nothing more hellish than to go your whole life never feeling the sex and love of a woman. Really, what’s the point of living? Love is life’s penultimate pleasure.’

“Penultimate” means “next to last,” so I wonder if Roissy needs a new dictionary, because he probably wanted to write “ultimate.”

“Eat, drink, and sport; the rest of life’s
not worth a fillip,” quoth the King;
Methinks the saying saith too much:
the swine would say the selfsame thing!

Two-footed beasts that browse through life,
by Death to serve as soil design’d,
Bow prone to Earth whereof they be,
and there the proper pleasures find:

But you of finer, nobler, stuff,
ye, whom to Higher leads the High,
What binds your hearts in common bond
with creatures of the stall and sty?
…
Sips from the maiden’s lips the dew;
brushes the bloom from virgin brow:—
Such is his fleshly bliss that strives
the Maker through the Made to know.

I’ve tried them all, I find them all
so same and tame, so drear, so dry;
My gorge ariseth at the thought;
I commune with myself and cry:—

Better the myriad toils and pains
that make the man to manhood true,
This be the rule that guideth life;
these be the laws for me and you:

With Ignor’ance wage eternal war,
to know thy self forever strain,
Thine ignorance of thine ignorance is
thy fiercest foe, thy deadliest bane;

That blunts thy sense, and dulls thy taste;
that deafs thine ears, and blinds thine eyes;
Creates the thing that never was,
the Thing that ever is defies.

The finite Atom infinite
that forms thy circle’s centre-dot,
So full-sufficient for itself,
for other selves existing not,

Finds the world mighty as ’tis small;
yet must be fought the unequal fray;
A myriad giants here; and there
a pinch of dust, a clod of clay.

Yes! maugre all thy dreams of peace
still must the fight unfair be fought;
Where thou mayst learn the noblest lore,
to know that all we know is nought.

True to thy Nature, to Thy self,
Fame and Disfame nor hope nor fear:
Enough to thee the small still voice
aye thund’ering in thine inner ear.

From self-approval seek applause:
What ken not men thou kennest, thou!
Spurn ev’ry idol others raise:
Before thine own Ideal bow:

Be thine own Deus: Make self free,
liberal as the circling air:
Thy Thought to thee an Empire be;
break every prison’ing lock and bar:

Do thou the Ought to self aye owed;
here all the duties meet and blend,
In widest sense, withouten care
of what began, for what shall end.

Thus, as thou view the Phantom-forms
which in the misty Past were thine,
To be again the thing thou wast
with honest pride thou may’st decline;

And, glancing down the range of years,
fear not thy future self to see;
Resign’d to life, to death resign’d,
as though the choice were nought to thee.

On Thought itself feed not thy thought;
nor turn from Sun and Light to gaze,
At darkling cloisters paved with tombs,
where rot the bones of bygone days:

“Eat not thy heart,” the Sages said;
“nor mourn the Past, the buried Past;”
Do what thou dost, be strong, be brave;
and, like the Star, nor rest nor haste.

Pluck the old woman from thy breast:
Be stout in woe, be stark in weal;
Do good for Good is good to do:
Spurn bribe of Heav’en and threat of Hell.

To seek the True, to glad the heart,
such is of life the HIGHER LAW,
Whose differ’ence is the Man’s degree,
the Man of gold, the Man of straw.

Omega, perhaps your problem is that you are supposed to be a Man of Gold, but you are taking the advice of Men of Straw.

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TW: I made him up, although he could represent any number of real men. I see where your point of dispute is: ‘as practiced by the roissysphere’.

This is confirmed by looking at the links.

A) Roissy =/= Game.
B) The men who practice Game are… wait for it, this is going to surprise you… really… are you ready?
These men are complex human beings.
They like women. They get married. They have spiritual beliefs. They love love. Their common mistake is they don’t wake up to reality around them. They evolve, they grow, they assimilate what they learn from Game into their pre-existing framework and use it in a balanced way. They have their own moral standards which they won’t trespass. They have their social pressures which they shall always be subjected to. You are insulting every man who comes across Game — and then the specific subset represented by controversial Internet blogger roissy — by saying it converts him into a human being who doesn’t appreciate life or humanity or that he has his own choices he can rationally make — based on his own preferences for lifestyle, risk, principles, religion and family. What Game does is enable him to make these choices. Choice is valueless if you do not have the power to enforce your decision.

Can you be a little less transparent in your attempt to promote your self/book and just market it as a romance novel to — I don’t know — women? It looks interesting to me, that way. [How much do you want us to bet that your lead character is physically attractive, can carry a conversation, is desired by women who aren't the heroine that're 'bad for him' and 'must refuse' i.e. in total, that he has 'Game'?]

Anyway, no more helping you promote your book. It’s amazingly hypocritical to advocate the use of Objectivist reason — and supposedly the inherent nobility of man — then deny any other male does it all the time. You need to be discriminate about who you give your love to otherwise it is valueless. Game allows you both the option and judgement to exercise this.

No, let us simplify again. Game is the knowledge of a woman’s sexuality and nature given in a format that is digestible to a specific kind of male mind — best learned by applying it on the practical level and observing your results. It depends on the free choice and reasoning of the man concerned what he does with the knowledge. Your dispute is not with Game — the study of what women tend to find sexually attractive — it is with the choices men are making with it.

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Thanks, Welmer. And I appreciate you creating and hosting this forum. I remember thinking it was a great idea when you first suggested it, and it’s only going to get better. And I hope you feel better soon. I’ve been under the weather the last few days too.

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I’ve really got to get the forum up to speed with these discussions, but I’ve been too damned sick to do much of anything for the last week.

I’m sorry to hear that you are ill, Welmer. I hope you get well soon. Just relax and try to get healthy. We’ll deal with the site as-is for now.

No, let us simplify again. Game is the knowledge of a woman’s sexuality and nature given in a format that is digestible to a specific kind of male mind — best learned by applying it on the practical level and observing your results. It depends on the free choice and reasoning of the man concerned what he does with the knowledge. Your dispute is not with Game — the study of what women tend to find sexually attractive — it is with the choices men are making with it.

Good point. I completely agree. Game is an internal thing and how it plays out in the relationship depends on the people involved in the relationship and the type of relationship it is.

Some of the more extreme gaming seems to stem from a lack of respect on the woman’s part. Perhaps (in cases like Roissy’s) she doesn’t know him very well or very long. And in others (like Dave’s) she respected him but lost respect later and he had to make an effort to regain it. If you are married to a woman who respects you already you probably have less need for that sort of behavior than someone who is trying to tame an unruly wife or seduce a stranger. Then it’s more like maintenance.

Caveat: most of my game knowledge relates to marriage so that’s where I draw my examples from. But my point is a broader one.

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Bhetti: If Joe “only wants to get laid” – as you say he does – then I could only say in response: “Game can probably work for you, Joe. However, I would encourage you to aspire for more in life. When that happens, give me a ring and we can talk.”

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TFH: “Define the difference between ‘PUA Game’ and ‘LTR Game’, and what are the overlapping and non-overlapping components between the two.”

TW: Say “please”

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HL: Once again, you show a fundamental misunderstanding of SIMPLE “game” concepts: playful flirtation to establish social dominance, and demonstrating your attraction value to other women raises her own attraction to you.

TW: I’m not interested in doing that stuff, and I don’t see why it would be helpful.

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TW: Say “please”

Please.

Now if you don’t answer the question after that, you don’t come across very well at all.

“Define the difference between ‘PUA Game’ and ‘LTR Game’, and what are the overlapping and non-overlapping components between the two.”

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TFH: “Define the difference between ‘PUA Game’ and ‘LTR Game’, and what are the overlapping and non-overlapping components between the two.”

TW: I would say – based on what I know – and to put it succinctly, “LTR Game applies the principles and tactics of PUA Game but on one woman exclusively.” Did I win?

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Did I win?

That is a start, but you are supposed to give some detail behind what are the overlapping and non-overlapping components between LTR Game and PUA Game.

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TFH: “That is a start, but you are supposed to give some detail behind what are the overlapping and non-overlapping components between LTR Game and PUA Game.”

TW: Oh brother, this sounds like the essay section of the SAT. Eh, umm, why does this matter again?

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The noble end-state of male/female relations to which Todd White is groping would only be possible IF and only IF women were further along in their evolution than they currently are.

Unfortunately, like Abject Man says, women are simply less evolved than men.

You hear that Bhetti? WOMEN ARE LESS EVOLVED THAN MEN

Savor that taste, babe. Savor that taste.

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Tupac:

i agree with your last statement. Game is a two front war. We are competing against women as well as other men. This is important to remember and it has implications for the relationship between Gamers and MRAs.

Your previous statment that ‘women are less evolved than men’ i’ll take as tongue in cheek. I’m assuming that thought it rhetoric used to prove a larger point. Clearly men and women have evolved in tandem and in concert to become what we are. We are equally evolved by definition of “evolution”.

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Hello everybody, thank you for responding to my letter and at illuminating certain tenets of game. Seems to me that this has largely devolved into another game vs. socialcon kinda thing, this was certainly not my intention. Although I am severely lacking in relevant life experience, I have no doubt that the explanations for male/female behavior game provides are true. I do hate it, believe me. Ferdinand describes me perfectly, as many of you have:

“The comparison has already been made, but I’ll reiterate it because it works so well: game is the red pill, the proof that everything that you were told about men, women, and human nature is completely false. You’re at the disbelief stage, writhing in the chair and frothing vomit, as your mind rejects the truth that’s been hidden from your eyes for so long. Once the pain passes, you’ll see the world with a clarity that you never had before. You’ll see humanity as it really is – we aren’t good, we aren’t evil, we just are, like every other creature on this green earth.”

That’s exactly how I feel. I really feel that the main point of stress in todays men is not really the fact that women are the way they are, but the profound disparity in how things are, versus what we’ve all be lead to believe. When I first began learning the truth about women I was heartbroken, devastated, I felt such a profound level of betrayal that I can hardly find words to express. Such was the disparity of my beliefs (regarding women) that I grew up with, and what I am now trying to learn. This is a BITTER pill to swallow, I’m trying. I guess even when a man (whose been indoctrinated) learns the truth on an intellectual level its takes time to throw out all the romantic delusions and the cherished fantasies and all that shit and truly accept the truth. You’ve got to throw out ALL the old garbage before you can effectively digest the new information. I’ve purged myself of many delusions, but certain fantasies still remain.

What I find very telling about your collective responses, is that you’ve assumed many things about me, without me stating or eluding to them in my message. Yet you went ahead with your assumptions, all of which are true. Some of you assumed that I, as well as other omegas, are pathologically sexually obsessed. Let me tell you this is 100% true. And it’s also true that if sex, female validation eludes you, this will cause a person to put it up on a pedestal like it is the single greatest achievement of life. This will make them, and has made me, extremely vulnerable to female shaming language.

Truthfully an omega male, who clearly benefits the least from women, should logically care the least about them. He gets the least amount of pussy/love/companionship/affection, then clearly this dude should also be investing the LEAST amount of emotion to women in general. You see I this so very clearly on an intellectual level, who couldn’t? But to break through it on that deep, primal, visceral level is a much tougher challenge. My goal in trying to understand/study game is that I may rid myself, permanently, of all these wretched lies about women (which women encourage!) and cease being an emotional slave. If game can help me and other omegas achieve those humble outcomes, than game is worth its hype.

Cheers.

Elliot Frost

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Just because we have evolved, in a completely impersonal and mindless process, to have genes that push us to get laid, that doesn’t mean that we must adopt that as our *purpose* or *goal*.

Exactly. There’s more to life than sex. Really, there is. In fact, focusing too much on sex can cause you to fail in reaching other, perhaps more important goals in life. Sex can be a distraction.

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EF: ““My goal in trying to understand/study game is that I may rid myself, permanently, of all these wretched lies about women (which women encourage!) and cease being an emotional slave. If game can help me and other omegas achieve those humble outcomes, than game is worth its hype. ”

TW: In my experience, the best way to stop being an “emotional slave” is to sever the knee-jerk response whereby a woman’s indifference to you causes “emotional slavery.” To do that, you must take ownership of your life, love yourself, and achieve a level of character that a worthy woman would be overjoyed to love.

There are no short-cuts in life. You have to do your homework. Life is a perpetual school, and unfortunately – to use Dave’s analogy – Game is a pill; a drug that may boost your self-esteem in the short-run but will leave you with a hangover tomorrow. And then – when the hangover passes – you’ll be back at Square One.

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Also, just for the record, I’m not a so-con; I’m something between a conservative and a libertarian.

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Jon

“Thats why I just dont get people like Roissy and certain other Game bloggers who seem to never get over their obsession and never tire of beating the same horse over and over again, in ever greater and excruciating detail, with the same themes repeating and being repeated in new variations ad nauseam, and vastly over-complexifying what in the end is a farily simple thing.”

I think a big part of it has to do with egos. Most Game bloggers I have read have pretty large egos and like to condescendingly tell the rest of the male population what the purpose of life is and how you should go about achieving it. Along with the chase, this never gets old to them either.

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Perhaps thats part of it, too – people who havent had a few good years of success with really hot women cant begin to see it for the rather humdrum and pedestrian thing it is – perhaps every man needs those few years. Women wont become completely irrelevant to a man after that, obviously, he will still derive immense pleasure from women, but he will no longer be able to think of them with the kind of breathless excitement of a Roissy or some of his other highly excitable compatriots.

I’ve been trying to think of a way to word this same argument for a while now, but you beat me to it. I’ve often thought of my waning interest in women as something like that of a favorite piece of music – it can beguile and capture your passion, but after your appetite for it has been answered a few times, you begin to lose interest. If you can hear it anytime you want, anywhere – you become almost indifferent to it. It’s the people who remain entranced after years of having their desires met that strike me as a little odd.

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Black&German:

If you are going to give props to Obsidian you shouldn’t do so at the expense of Roissy.

Roissy was first, and more to the point, Obsidian recommends Roissy, among other gamesters.

Roissy’s sexual philosophy is hedonism and he enjoys the chase. Maybe that’s the limitation of his philosophy in that it leads him no where else. But what Roissy does every now and then is make a post that opens up the doors of enlightenment to many people, even if such posts are often buried under tons of more banal truths.

Also some of the women who hang out at Roissy are the same who hang out at Obsidians. Way to not differentiate in your criticisms. A single woman has different needs and interests than you. That does not make them wrong.

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The natural order of a ‘mainstream’ Game practitioner (which are the majority) is to practice the skills, get better and better, and maybe sleep with a dozen or two women. After that, they settle into a situation of two concurrent LTRs, both of which are with women far more desirable than he could have gotten with Game.

But the phase of going through multiple women in a short time doesn’t last past 15-20 women or so.

This is what I have seen with multiple top Game practitioners.

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“But the phase of going through multiple women in a short time doesn’t last past 15-20 women or so.”

Thanks for that comment TFH. These numbers agree with my experience, and I at last have a better understanding of the audience so receptive to Game, and the value of the service provided by its practitioners.

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@ B&G
“Perhaps at a young age. But if he is still whoring around at Roissy’s age then it leads one to wonder if he’s somehow stunted in his emotional development. Where is the maturity, acumen, and discernment?”

Then he’s an emotionally stunted Alpha.

That’s a big part of the controversy that swirls around Game – the fact that, no matter how much women would like to think so, maturity, acumen and discernment are not the qualities that make their ginas tingle.

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Codebuster -

Self-respect is indispensible in getting women. Politeness in no way harms your chances provided it is not an expression of weakness, which it need not be, and if earning the love of a real woman is your goal, I see no reason why you shouldnt pursue it.

I do think it is psychologically healthy for every man to go through a stage – provided it is a stage – where he beds a variety of beautiful women. Once you get that out of the system, it diminishes the female hold on the male imagination and frees you for other, more interesting pursuits, or to settle down with one *real* woman if thats what he wants to do. Guys who havent had that experience run the risk of getting stuck in a kind of fascinated fixation with *what it would be like to have scores of hot women* – once youve had that, women lose a great deal of their glitter, much of the drama and anxiety surrounding the whole subject – so brilliantly exploited and mined for entertainment purposes by writers like Roissy – fades away, and life becomes easier and more sane.

I dont see anything negative about it.

As for the hotness of women, I really dont think women can be collapsed into one great heap of distinctionless femininity underneath their makeup and fancy clothes – as in everything, differences matter, there is a hierarchy, and some women really do give much more pleasure – both visually and physically – than others. Thats a fact.

If you want to argue that while pretty women are great, some Game people make far too big a deal of them and adopt a tone that is almost worshipful, I couldnt agree with you more, and if you want to say other things – like class, refinement, intelligence, character – also count and that Game people dont sufficiently acknowledge that, again, you have a supporter in me. But beauty also counts and should be striven for and treasured.

Finally, there seems to be a disturbing subtext to your post – that women do indeed run after thuggish and goonish guys. I want to address that – you hear that a lot on the Game blogs, and it needs correction.

Most women who are educated, cultured, and sophisticated are not attracted to the goons and thugs you mention. Believe me, I go out to bars and clubs all the time to talk to girls, and while yes, there is certainly a subset of women who love these types of guys, they are far from the majority, just as there are a certain subset of guys who love fat girls; but again, they are hardly the majority.

I also have 3 very attractive sisters and have had many years to closely observe their dating habits and their commentary on men in general; and while yes, they all seek confident men, none are into the thug type, no matter how confident – they are revolted by them. Ive seen goonish men hit on them repeatedly with no spark of interest.

Roissy – not to pick on him, but to single out one of the foremost spreaders of this half-truth in the Game blogosphere today – is hugely entertaining and I enjoy reading his site, but nothing he says should be taken at face value – the picture he paints is massively exaggerated, with entire layers of added drama and coloring and hyperbole, with stray anecdotes used as the basis for sweeping generalizations and outrageous assertions, and the result is an often very insightful kernel of truth dressed up for purposes of drama and entertainment in layer upon layer of lurid fantasy.

Roissy just likes to indulge his hot tempered imagination, and gets easily fired up and passionate – he seems like an extremely excitable fellow – and he positively revels and delights in painting extreme and vicious scenarios in stark, apocalyptic terms, and any psychological insight he has gotten a hold of immediately gets re-formulated into an extreme overstatement that while possessing some level of truth, is preposterously exaggerated when measured against real life.

Roissy loves to shock and outrage – and the more shocking and outrageous his *truths*, the more pleased he is. To this end overstatement, hyperbole, drama, extreme formulations, apocalyptic visions, and passionate advocacy serve his – diabolical? – purposes.

All of this makes for an extremely entertaining and popular site, but everything Roissy says needs to be dialed back around 60% .

Most Game bloggers that I have read – with a very few exceptions – paint a picture that simply is vastly exaggerated, albeit based on some very important truths.

The truth isnt quite so stark – the fact is, educated, cultured women are choosing from amongst a pool of men who share these qualities. From amongst these men they will privelage those possessing traits like confidence and masculinity. Thuggish types, whatever their confidence, dont even pass the minimum barrier to make into the pool of men from which these women make their choice.

Of course, coarse, uneducated women will likely privelage coarse, thuggish types, as corresponding to their temperaments better, but so it goes.

So the doom and gloom scenarios painted with broad brush by Roissy and his acolytes dont do justice to a complex reality – no need to get yourself down on women because of them.

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Porkchop – you are undoubtedly right. Many Game people have what I would call a clear psychological agenda – they assert that there exists a difficult and complex skill that only the dedicated, skilled, and initiated have mastered, and that elevates them above nearly 80% of other men. In order to maintain this ego-driven vision of themselves as this masterful elite lording it over the benighted masses of men, they will endless obsess over the thing they believe has conferred on them this elite status and make it seem infinitely more complex and difficult than it really is, all to add to their glory.

In reality, most guys with a modest boost to their confidence can regularly score really cute girls – in the bars and clubs in Manhattan I see it all the time. The dream-fantasies of the Game people, in which incredible displays of mastery and dominance are needed to score anything over a 7, and only the rare few are capable of it, is just that, a dream-fantasy by guys who have constructed a world in which they can be kings. At least half of any of the guys in a typical Manhattan bar has no problem getting cute chics.

But that truth isnt very ego-gratifying if youve believe your *mastery* of Game puts in some kind of elite 20%, is it?

Piercedhead – well put. Your analogy perfectly captures the essence of the issue.

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BlackAndGerman said:

He, he. Exactly. Now you know why Obsidian has so many women hanging out at his blog (and discussing him amongst themselves elsewhere).
Roissy thinks the ultimate alpha is someone who bangs a lot of stupid sluts. Nope. The ultimate alpha is someone who COULD bang a lot of stupid sluts but CHOOSES to spend his time doing something more worthwhile. He’s done that or considered doing that and MOVED ON. *swoon*
Roissy and his ilk (including the women) are stuck in some form of permanent adolescence.

Obsidian has a fair amount of women at his blog because he has adopted the talking style of women. He never uses five words to say something when he could use twenty. Oh sure, he has a point, and he makes it, but he goes on and on. Anybody who has ever read him has noticed this. He just repeats the same thing over and over again. The ability to repeat the same thing over and over again without annoying most people is a talent though. When going on and on about already made points, it does tend to become annoying.

Especially for men. Roissy’s writing style is far more concise. That appeals far more to men than women.

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The dirty-old-man is the mirror image of a cougar.

Most definitely not. This is where female solipism is evident.

A 45 year old man with a 32 year old woman is NORMAL across human history. The opposite almost never happens, and is not normal.

The media’s attempt to legitimize cougarhood is laughable, as an older woman can almost never get any younger man who has options with younger women.

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Abject Man: Am afraid will have to recant on that, not feeling well so can’t really gather my thoughts together.

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Jon declared reality:

Anyways, a poor showing, my man, you do Roissy a disservice by defending him.

Jon….. are you SURE you aren’t actually a woman? Cause you sure talk like one. You really, really do.

My advice, Jon, is to spend more time around men, cause your personally has become seriously distorted.

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To the Omega Man,

It certainly is possible for someone to build themselves up from being an omega. I was an omega- and right now am dating a really hot girl who loves me very much. It was not easy though- but I want to share with you based on my experiences what it will take for you to do the same.

First, make a list of the 5 best reasons why a girl would want to date you. “Because I am a nice guy who treats people well”, “Because I am a man so I deserve a woman”, and “Because I have a stable job” don’t count.

If you are an omega, you will probably have some difficulty putting this list together. This demonstrates the challenge you face- you must turn yourself into the type of man women would want to date. It won’t be easy, but keep in mind women are the selectors in the sexual marketplace, so you must make yourself the guy women want to pick.

You will need to examine what you are doing in your life and the lifestyle you are leading. A life consisting of going to work and surfing the internet at home isn’t appealing to women. You need to find hobbies that you enjoy, and fill your life with doing cool things so that when you talk about your life it will be appealing to women. You will need to find what will be your passion, but I know other people have done hobbies such as:

-Travel
-Martial Arts
-Improv Comedy
-Gourmet Dining
-Motorcycle Riding
-Learning another language
-Acting
-Music

You will need to examine your physical appearance. In my case I didn’t have a major problem here, but if you are overweight you will need to fix that.

-You will need to join a local lair. Go and google “Lair List” or “(your city Lair).You have a difficult task ahead of you, you will need the support of others in a similar situation. Try to find someone on the same path you are on. Note, I would wait until you have a handle on the first two items before this step, because once you join the lair sarging will need to take up a large part of your time.

-You will need to improve your fashion sense. Many omegas announce their low status to everyone on first sight with their dress. I certainly did at one point. If you aren’t dressing well, you will need to start. Hopefully someone from your local lair can help.

- You will need to improve your body language. Your body language likely announces to the world that you are an omega before you open your mouth.

-You will need to sarge, and sarge hard. At least 3-4 weeks, for a long time. You may find this frustrating- if you are an omega, your natural social ability probably isn’t good and your brain probably isn’t good at learning and internalizing social skills. You will see many other people join game after you and make progress much quicker than you. You will have to accept this because there is no other way to improve your social ability with women- you cannot become a player by reading in a book.

-In the end, you may also want to eventually go to a foreign country. Game will improve your options here- but your options will be much better if you travel abroad to meet your future partner.

You could conceivably travel to meet a wife before learning game, but I wouldn’t recommend that. If you do that before improving your attractiveness, you will only be able to attract those women who want to take advantage of you (i.e. green card)

Good luck. It’s a hard road ahead of you, harder then for most, but the reward- love and sex from a beautiful woman- is obtainable.

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Alphabeta: are you referring to commenting using quotes? Like this:

FB:
At last I read, Roissy valued long-term relationships over pump-and-dumps. So far as I can tell, he and Obsidian are playing the same game… The “dirty old man” is superior by virtue of the fact that he can still play the game when most of his competitors have dropped out through marriage and the like.

Damn. The point goes to you. And I nearly passed out in shock to hear that Roissy is in a LTR.
Then, yeah, it’s just a difference in writing style and tone. Damn, that ruins one of my favorite theories.

Where I’m from, “every” man does try to hit on “hot” women, and quite frankly, they both disgust me.

Same here.

One of the problems that I have with “game theory” is that, with women this stupid, why should anyone with half a brain want to bother with them?

That’s the point: the best women get snapped up early and then rarely divorce. Even a completely jaded man will usually know a good thing when he sees it. So the dating pool quickly degrades.

this attitude of mine has not exactly helped me in my popularity with the fairer sex but, paradoxically, it has not disadvantaged me in the options that are available to me.

Agreed. But maybe they’re attracted to you because they know you’re… right. I called a girlfriend out on being bitchy with her husband recently, “Girl, you are crazy. You got yourself a quality man and now you’re ruining a good thing with your pettiness.” Her response, “Um. Yeah. I just can’t help myself sometimes.” Just because women behave irrationally or ridiculously doesn’t mean that they don’t know it. It just means that they’re lacking in emotional maturity and self-control. We’re quick to call each other out on this stuff but it’s harder to see it in yourself.

no matter how much women would like to think so, maturity, acumen and discernment are not the qualities that make their ginas tingle.
Perhaps the women are also emotionally stunted.

A 45 year old man with a 32 year old woman is NORMAL across human history.

TFH, my point was not that there is something wrong with an age difference. My dirty-old-man is hanging out in bars and pursuing promiscuous women. He’s not in a LTR. I can personally attest to the fact that an older-man / younger-woman combination is ideal.

Anyway, I was posting to note that the Economist recently had an article that mentioned something akin to “game classes”:
http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14823814

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This is just a further note from me, a man who has started using “game” consciously in his marriage. (I probably used a fair bit unconsciously over the years). On balance, it is working well, although my wife and I have had a torrid time lately. However I can say that I am reasonably happy with my situation. My wife continues to attend the gym, and is losing weight. I fucked her hard yesterday and she is back cooking, washing and ironing. She also asked for a spanking last night.

All OK. But this “game” is hard. My wife gave me several days of “shit test” before calming down yesterday and getting with the program.

I have now eased off a little, but I am still playing it cool with her. I intend to incorporate “game” (to a sensible degree) in my future dealings with her.

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Welmer

I think my wife is still worth it. She is not a bad-looking woman for her age; she is still quite pretty; she has cooked and done my laundry for over twenty years; we have children. So, yes, she is worth the effort. Besides, for religious reasons, I don’t want to end up divorced.

I think that, with careful maintenance, we have a few good years left in us before we become real old-timers, and I plan to enjoy her fully in the remaining time. She has great legs, which look especially good spread wide after I tell her to “grab your ankles, bitch”.

The thing is too that she is basically pretty feminine. I have probably spanked her a hundred times over the years. It was one of the first things she wanted me to do to her when we first started ‘dating’, as you Americans say. So, she has submissive tendencies, which is a healthy thing in a woman for a long term relationship. Also, she tends to defer to me in various traditional ways.

But, yes, it is hard to keep up the work. I would say two things though. The first is that a lot of “game” actually saves energy. If you don’t jump to her command; try to guess her intentions; nervously try to please her; worry about what she is thinking; and only answer her rantings with a dismissive remark, gesture or joke – all this is very energy-conserving.

The second thing is that women get into bad ruts, in which they imagine they can go on living. Perhaps it just takes them a while (I cannot understand where the idea came from that women are sensitive and aware!) to learn that the game has changed.

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As for

“while 80% of women and 40% of men may pass on their genetic material, the offspring will be at the same levels of evolution: male or female,”

what link? I’m just speculating using the logic of selection.

No selection pressure = no evolutionary change.”

Men genetically exist more on the extreme sides of the bell curve for allmost all abilities and traits. There are more male outliers, both good and bad. Women are genetic filters. They select men whose genetic experimentation is successful. The reason men have more evolutionary selection pressure on them is that they are worth less from a biological perspective. Nature doesn’t take as many chances with the breeders. It takes more chances with the doers, as you never know what needs to be done, but you always need breeders.

How is this possible if we mate together and share DNA. DNA has a bunch of tricks to it that allow it all types of fancy stuff, and I won’t go into those here, and I don’t know them that well, but besides that, that shriveled up little piece of crap Y-chromosome that feminist love to bash because its tiny, well, its tiny because its effecient and productive. It makes a huge difference in our genetic makeup. Not many animals have as much sex specialization as we do. As a social, cooperative species, we have really specialized the sex roles compared to other advanced species. The Y-chromosome is very powerful, both in good and bad ways. It is probably more open to genetic mutations then other chromosomes, because it doesn’t allow for the genetic reduntancy of matching pair chromosomes, so it is the Y chromosome that makes men have more of a range of abilities on the bell curve, both adaptive and maladaptive. So are men more evolved….enh, maybe evolved more to specialize compared to women. Evolved more to mutate more than women. Evolved more to excell and evolved more to fail. Its a gray area. You could argue women evolve less because they already fit their niche perfectly and don’t need to. I’d like to reiterate that men are not superior to women, we are different. We are superior on average for specific abilities, but not on average overall. The main benefit I think men on average is the ability to seperate their logical analytical thoughts from their emotions. This has a downside although, as when it is taken too far, you get sociopaths. So maybe women are better for not being less emotional. Its somewhat subjective, and depends on context of what the environmental niche someone exists in; scientist or caregiver, civil engineer or social worker, etc.

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Jabherwochie,

You’ve hit on an important point here and I’m going to take it a step further.

Women have developed to fit a certain role “breeders” whereas men have developed to achieve a certain goal “protect, provide, and produce”. Therefore sexual selection would tend to keep women’s state constant while selecting for men who are best able to attain that goal within their society.

Women’s current schizophrenic behavior can be explained quite simply as a reaction to the change from one set of goals to another. Marriage used to be the method whereby men could contain women’s naturally promiscuous nature and steer them towards men fulfilling the newest set of goals. By forcing women to, essentially, choose one man and stick with him, the woman was forced to evaluate the men more carefully and select one who would be the most likely to succeed in their society.

In a highly warring society the selection would be for men who are large, strong, and quick. In our society the selection would be for men who have acquired a skills set that allows them to be competitive in the modern workforce (social competence and intelligence). Contrary to what you read on men’s boards, the birth rate is highest for betas. They are the most sexually successful as they are the most inclined to marry and the birth rate is much higher for married women.

Except in the black population (due to poor education and a lack of reliable contraception), many women may be interested in having sex with an alpha but they don’t reproduce with them. It used to be that you therefore couldn’t have sex with them at all, now you can beat the system by having sex but using contraception.

Because of contraception, from a genetic point of view, most alphas are dead-ends unless they eventually marry. And even then their divorce rate is so high that the marriages are inherently unstable, which would further depress their reproductive success. And if they manage to “knock up” one of their concubines, the instability of the parental relationship means that their progeny are less successful than those from men who have invested more heavily in their offspring.

In other words, the future belongs to the betas. The alphas had a bonanza for a while but it’s going to slow down as they simply die out, and women wisen up when the beta men refuse to play along. You will see women becoming more and more the “pursuers” in relationships with betas, more complaints of “I can’t find a good man.”, a slowing or even reversal of divorce rates, and more women naming and shaming their cohorts who don’t “play by the rules”. The fact that you are already seeing these things supports my theory.

Alphas are actually most successful in civilizations that are highly beta-ized as they are pressured into marriage and family. Whenever they come out on top it is because the civilization is in decline and will soon be taken over by a more beta-ized one (Islam?). Basically, the sexual anarchy we see around us right now is alphas enjoying the downfall and trying to get some last-minute shagging in before it all goes to hell.

But isn’t it generally a pendulum?: the alphas are on top, then the betas are on top, then the alphas are on top…

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Interesting piece on boyhood:
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Puzzle-of-Boys/49193/

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Alphas do breed but my argument was that they’re less reproductively successful even when they do breed. Not just in making babies but in making babies who grow up to be well-rounded, functional adults.
I think most alphas managed to spread their seed the widest during times of anarchy or war. During more peaceful times their instincts often led to betas murdering them or to being forced into marriage with women that they didn’t love, so it’s not as if they got off stock-free.

Cuckoldry might have worked in the past but we have DNA tests for that now. Even back in the day, the women (and men) were sometimes found out and the children were put out to die or the adulterers were stoned to death as a lesson for the others. I don’t condone this, obviously, but it happened and regularly enough to send a clear message.

Serial monogamy is not as successful as raising children in a state of marriage. Even polygamy is better than that for the children. The impact of constant, regular, and exclusive paternal involvement and presence cannot be underestimated. They are slowly (and stupidly, as the Bible could have told them that, which is why all parental admonitions and instructions are given to the FATHERS, not the mothers) beginning to see this in more and more statistics: anti-social behavior is directly linked to paternal involvement. Crime, drug-use, promiscuity, immodesty, divorce, suicide, work ethic, scholastic achievement, poverty, etc.
I’d even posit that, as long as the father is not a total ass or an active felon, his merely being alive, breathing, and present in the home is — for some unknown, magical reason — enough to ward off most negative behavior in the children.

Let me go further: women are largely interchangeable, men aren’t. A child who grows up with an aunt, grandmother, adopted mother, devoted housekeeper, etc. will only do marginally worse than one raised by their mother as long as the woman acts as if she was the mother. A child raised by anyone other than their father (even stepfathers or male relatives who try their very best) will do significantly worse. I don’t know why that is, though. But it’s something that’s getting lost in the “have a man in the home” discussion. Having a man isn’t enough; it has to be the biological father or the positive effect is only due to an increase in income and dual-parenting, not the man’s presence.

Because the mother’s care (due to breastfeeding, etc.) is so vital at the beginning of a child’s life, many are inclined to make the mother the default caretaker after divorce. This is shortsighted (again, as the Bible could have told you). Men’s positive influence on their children grows from year to year and if you sever that relationship at the beginning many men will not be able or willing to reconstruct it at a later date, when it is most needed. Once the child reaches 6 months of age, it is usually weaned to a bottle anyway and she can always pump so the breastfeeding isn’t really a topic anymore.

It’d be better to make joint-custody automatic in divorce and perhaps provide the father with child-care assistance to aid him in his attempt to maintain contact with his children. The mother doesn’t need child support as long as the custody is shared: men who are actively involved in their children’s lives aren’t going to let them starve or sleep out in the rain, regardless of their relationship with the mother. Duh. Child support only makes sense at all if the man severs all ties and only until/if she remarries.

So the goal (for children’s best outcome) should be: ensure paternity, severely restrict divorce, make joint-custody default, and limit child support.

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Yeah, I know. I was just fired up about the topic and needed some mental release. LOL.

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