A Quick Primer On The Sexual Marketplace, & Why The Femosphere CANNOT Address It Meaningfully

by Obsidian on November 16, 2009

Over the weekend I happened across Girl Game team member Aoefe’s post “The Stock Market & Mate Selection”. It was a most timely subject, given the current state of affairs on the economic front not just for Americans, but throughout the world.

Her piece, while well written, was just basically a kind of “checklist” that a Woman would use in trying to land a real catch of a Man-no argument there, since this has always been the primary mating strategy of the Female. But, because of the deep and far reaching implications of our economically stressed times, I for one was hoping that someone out on the Femosphere-be it Girl Game, Susan Walsh of Hooking Up Smart, the crews of Feministing, Feminste or Jezebel, of *somebody* on that side of the aisle, would offer a comparatively cleareyed analysis of our times and how that directly relates to the dating and mating market. Needless to say, that to date, since the “Mancession” began, and Maria Shriver’s much heralded “A Woman’s Nation” report came down the pike, there has been, at best a kind of oblique nibbling around the edges by the likes of Ms. Aoefe, Ms. Bhetti (the latter of whom gives her take on the current economic situation in a new piece over at Girl Game) and Ms. Walsh (the latter having a Wharton MBA!), and at worst, the usual mocking of the “Menz” by the latter most feminist-identified sites (for example, a recent piece at Feministing openly mocks the idea of a Mancession, then turns the focus back on how bad Women have it, which is in direct contradiction of the Shriver Report-but then again, would we really expect anything less of Feministing?).

While I’m fairly sure the ladies of the previous cohort may raise their hackles at the notion that I lump them in with the latter cohort of fem-bloggers, the bottomline is, that they all comprise what I call the Femosphere, and serves as a kind of counterpoint to what some has coined the Manosphere, which is made up of Male blogging voices spanning the MGTOW and MRA corners of the Internet, to the Game and PUA oriented bloggers. They different in many ways, both camps do have quite a bit in common, and which serves to be the backbone of this essay.

For example, as noted above, there has been no “meta-analysis” of the current radically altered economic landscape and how this WILL effect the dating and mating one by ANYONE in the Femosphere; while, in the Manosphere, from Marc Rudov to Roissy in DC, there have been any number of “takes” on the situation that are easily found at the click of the mouse. Curious guys like me sit back and take notice of such a glaring difference and has to ask, “what’s up with that?”.

So, this article is gonna layout, in real basic terms, how the sexual marketplace works, the changes that have happened in recent years, and the changes that we see before our eyes right now, and why the Femosphere, with all due respect, is basically incapable of giving the kind of “meta-analysis” that one can’t help but trip over walking ten paces in any direction in the Manosphere. Ready? OK, here we go:

Astute readers of my post Why Game & Choice For Men Elicits So Much Hate will recall how I laidout the basic mating strategies of the Human Male and Female, which was deeply informed by our evolutionary past. Simply put, both sexes were exposed to environmental pressures against which they had to form adaptations to overcome; for the Male, he has to figure out a way to be noticed by the Female; for the Female, she has to figure out a way to “screen out” all but the best Male with which to mate. While both skill sets do take time and trial and error to perfect, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist-or a Wharton trained economist-to figure out which job is inherently harder-the Males have it infinitely tougher. Not only do they need to make the best showing to the Female, but they must also beat out all the other competition-which could prove deadly, and very often did.

This occurs among sperm even; millions of them fight to the death to unite with the one egg, and thus forms the basis of the sexual marketplace-eggs expensive, because of their scarcity, and sperm is cheap, because of its vast surplus. In said marketplace, Women are the “sellers”; Men, the “buyers”. And for much of Human history, and until relatively recently, it’s been a Seller’s Market. Contrary to all the boilerplate many feminists and the like try to foist on an otherwise ignorant and unsuspecting public, in truth Women have always gotten a kind of artificial market “bump”, much like the “bumps” Wall Street has received from the gov’t in the form of taxpayer funded bailouts and the like. For example-we’ve all heard of the Shotgun Wedding, right? Guy meets Girl, Guy hookup with Girl, Guy gets Girl preggers, Girl’s fam finds out, Guy is pressured to marry Girl. Now-who wins in that scenario? The Girl, of course. She gets support in the form of Guy’s resources, and is insured in this by the threat of her peeps doing something very bad to Guy if he welches out on the deal.

There are many other instances of artificial bumps in the market aimed at assisting Women historically as well, marriage in the more broader sense being yet another example. It helps Women, not necessarily Men. At least it does first and foremost-the benefits Men get got from marriage historically, were a secondary thing. From a purely Evo-Psych standpoint.

Polygamy is yet another example where the clear beneficiaries are the Women, because she’s almost assured of getting a “share” of a wealthy Man’s resources, rather than having a full “claim” on a poor Man to herself. Aside from a very small pool of Men who can put themselves in a position to gain from such an arrangement, the vast majority of Men do NOT benefit from Polygamy.

So, we see how, contrary to the arguments of the feminists, how the Female side of the SMV equation has always gotten a leg up as it were.

So, what does this have to do with the current Mancession, the Shriver Report, and the dearth of meaningful, straightahead discussion about it in Femosphere?

Very simple.

As my previous article clearly pointed out, Women are genetically wired to seek out the best Men with which to mate, and then do all they can to make him stick around after the party’s over. Doing this by necessity, means that a lot of guys have to be eliminated from the search. The current Mancession-where some 70-80% of ALL layoffs and firings have been Male, and the Shriver Report, which clearly says that for the first time in American history, there are more Women than Men gainfully employed, simply means that Women’s “field of erotic view”, as F. Roger Devlin would put it, just got a heck of a lot narrower. Far from giving the guy who’s down on his luck a “mercy shot”, they will follow their instincts and simply set their sights on the few remaining Alphas left in the field, and vie like made against all the other Females in the round hoping to rope him in.

This is why there has been no discussion of these types of topics along these lines in the Femosphere, BECAUSE WOMEN SEE THE ISSUE IN A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT WAY THAN MEN DO. They don’t need to figure out “workarounds” like Men do. They only need to figure out, how to get the Top Guy to stay with THEM.

Now…

Let’s go back to the site, Girl Game. It is a site found by a bunch of Women, who’s sole purpose is to give Ladies the tools with which to land the Best Guys-again, nothing wrong with that…in theory. The problem comes in when one considers what has happened in the sexual marketplace over the past four decades or so.

Aside from medical interventions like the Pill and Abortion, things like access to education and money/jobs, along with massive support from the gov’t, have made it possible for Women to make choices she could have never dreamed of only a half century ago, let alone 5 centuries ago. That she can do this all with a minimum of censure or reprisal, makes it all the better. I consider this a kind of “deregulation” of the sexual marketplace, where people, definitely Women, but as we’ll soon find out, a goodly number of Men, too-can really do as they wish. If ever there was a time when one could see our raw mating strategies at work, this timeframe, the late 20th to early 21st century, was it.

Because, while Women now have maximum choice in terms of mating, so too do Men-but, as I’ve said before, and contrary to popular opinion, not ALL of them-only a select few. This is just how Women prefer it, of course. Remember-the scarcer a resource, the higher the price.

The problem is, that the current situation, the SMP if you will, is greatly inflated-a kind of SMP “bubble”-and sooner or later it will burst-meaning that there will be A LOT of Lady Losers in its wake. They will have all the sex they can handle, but because of the Mancession and because of their own ability to provide for themselves, very few will be able to land the Man of their Dreams for more than a fortnight, if that. For one, the environment doesn’t support it, and two, of the few remaining Alphas left, they have every incentive to enjoy what is now essentially a Buyer’s Market of Poon.

This is where Game-and by that, I mean in its original parlance-comes in, because all it does is gives the Man more bargaining power at the table of the Sexual Marketplace. Of course, being gainfully employed helps, but it is NOT, I repeat, NOT, the end all be all, and we’ve all seen that to be true many, many times. Which is why my good friend, The Fifth Horseman, says that having Moderste Game Competence is worth roughly $2M. I, agree.

I’ve told the ladies at Girl Game before, and it bears repeating, that what they’re attempting to do can only, by design, “work” with a very small number of Women; by and large, unless the playing field is leveled again, the vast majority of Women, can and will LOSE. Of course, there’ll be a lot of Male Losers, too, but that’s nothing new; what is, are little things like Glocks and Rugers, and the extreme losers will make use of these and exact their revenge on a number of ladies too. But I digress. The point is, for the first time in human history, Women en masse won’t be the winners of the mating game. For the first time, they’ll be the losers.

I’m just sayin’.

Now adjourn your asses…

The Obsidian

{ 65 comments… read them below or add one }

The FIfth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 13:22

I am going to say something ‘controversial’, but that I see to be true :

The ‘GirlGame’ blog is supposedly devoted to helping women land a commitment from a ‘quality man’ in the ‘same league’.

But what is a ‘quality man’ to begin with? His looks, his wealth, but most importantly his GAME, determine that.

Hence, the real charter of any such advice that women write for other women effective is :

“We wish that the men we can already date had better Game, so that we could feel more attracted to them, turning them into ‘quality men’.”

So any female tactics, whether ‘The Rules’ or ‘GirlGame’, are totally SECONDARY and SUBSEQUENT to a man becoming attractive via Game in the first place.

A man’s Game is the real variable in the whole equaton, which is what enables him to become a desirable man in the first place.

GirlGame is to Game is to Beta Male behavior…

What a cellphone car charger is to a cellphone is to a landline phone.

So what is the real disruptive technology, and what is merely an accessory to the disruptive technology?

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Omega Man November 16, 2009 at 13:24

I don’t think women really see this as losing, at least in the short term. First choice is all of an alpha; second choice is a share of an alpha; third choice is all of a beta. If a woman can support herself a short term and/or non-exclusive relationship with an alpha seems to be the lifestyle choice they want. Whether after some years of single motherhood this still seems like a good choice is another question.

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gargod November 16, 2009 at 13:36

The problem is this is already happening. It’s happening in the African American community. I recently saw an article about black women complaining that there are not enough ‘good’ black men to go around. Roughly 40% of black men are educated and employed regularly. So now that we have a 60-70% female college enrollment, and lets say women settle down about 5-10 years after graduation. That means in the next 5-10 years 30% of the male population will have 70% of the female attention. Damn I am glad I went to college and have a good job.

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Advocatus Diaboli November 16, 2009 at 13:43

We can only hope that “losers” will accept ‘their fate’. It is not like technology has progressed and spread enough to create alternate possibilities, that are not taken into account by current thinking patterns (sarcasm intended).

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Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 13:52

Gargod,
Excellent observation, and something I’ve tried to tell the ladies over at the Girl Game site – I speak NOT from theory, but from experience – either my own, or that of others I have observed, and as you rightly noted, in the Black community, this is a major problem and has been for quite some time. And it won’t be long before you hear Stas bemoaning the lack of “eligible Men”. All you need to do is sit down among a group of Black Women and observe.

Black America is the canary in the mine for the rest of the country-as we go, so too goes the rest of the country. We’ve also seen this with regard to out of wedlock births and the like. Thanks to the double whammy of being Black and Female (ie, Affirmative Action, etc.), millions of Black Women were able to take advantage of things that weren’t as available to Black Men. to be sure, this isn’t the only factor and lots of Black Men do lots of dumb stuff – still, it simply cannot be denied that Black Women have all kinds of artificial “bumps” in the SMP that basically renders most Beta Black Males useless.

Here I want to caution you about what you said, your parting shot. Yes, being employed, owning a business, being a consultant, etc, does help. No doubt about it. But, if you’re honest, you know as much as I do that there are scads of Brothas out there who can and do get more ass than the proverbial toilet seat – and ain’t had a job in a good long minute. Moreover, we also know Black Men who have done very well moneywise, but are home working it out with the Five Fingers Of Death like any 12 year old horny kid.

So, whle money does count, it isn’t the end all be all by any means, and in truth, given the fact that Women can take care of themselves these days (and that includes the Black Underclass), being a stable provider simply doesn’t have the same cache’ that it once used to. In our days and times, the “decider” will be those Men who have Game – and those Men who do NOT. And please do not get it twisted, like I said yesterday, Vince Vaughn with tight Game, trumps Brad Pitt with no Game, 99 times out of 100.

Bet on it.

Holla back

The Obsidian

The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 13:52

As a supplement, the definition of Moderate Game Competence is the following 5 skills :

***1) Regular, consistent, and somewhat effortless ability to do approaches to women who are 8s or higher. This should be seamless, without having to ‘get into character’. Approaching 10 women a week should be effortless.

This is the most important point of all, as without approaches, you will not create the opportunities to practice ANY other part of Game. This is also the filter that blocks most novices from ever progressing.

2) Understand and internalize the anatomy of a seduction.

a) Detection and passing of tests (such as not spending any money on her before sex).
b) Internalizing the 7-hour rule as a framework of all behaviors.
c) Internalizing the habit of early kino and kino escalation/kino fractionation.
d) Learning how to use the occasional well-placed neg.

3) Ability to run comfort and rapport for the requisite 6-8 hours. Have a lot of interesting stories, games, and other things to run on her. Learn how to avoid sexual escalation, however tempting, if you are not in the sex location.

***4) Ability to bridge from Day 1 to Day 2, and minimize flakes. This is important as flakes are frustrating, demoralizing, and discouraging. A lot of guys are very close to ecstasy, but this makes the goal seem distant, and thus derails their progress.

5) Ability to run competent seduction Game, after you get her alone. This is where Ross Jeffries NLP can be extremely useful in elevating her from ‘mild arousal’ to ‘off the charts horniness’.

1) and 4) cause the biggest frustration, paralysis, and ‘giving up’, hence the asterisks. But a man who becomes pretty good at these 5 points is ahead of 98% of all men, and is on par with a Beta who has $2 million in net worth (and is ahead of such a Beta if that Beta has no game and is suckered easily by feminine manipulation).

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Zammo November 16, 2009 at 13:53

Could GirlGame just be the instructions for successful hypergamy?

Given this recession’s economic impact on men and the ever increasing imbalance of women versus men completing higher education, dating and relationships are going to look vastly different in the coming years.

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Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 13:58

AD,
Well, I think it depends on what “losers” you’re talking about; if you’re talking about the Women losers, they won’t be much of a threat, beyond carping and complaining, bitching and moaning and basically being shrews. But if you’re talking the Male losers…I think it’s safe to say that the tech exists to make it very easy for them to wreak considerable havoc in all our lives…and we’ll see a lot of it in the coming years.

The Obsidian

Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 14:02

Zammo,
Indeed, one can only conclude that, in essence, that’s exactly what Girl Game is all about. But again, I don’t have a problem with that, as much as I do about the simple fact that, given the current SMP environment, only a very small number of Women can win. All the others go through varying degrees of pump and dump routines.

Unless, said Women are willing to adapt to the economic environment, and basically settle. This need not be a bad thing; a guy who makes half as much as his Woman, BUT has tight Game, can easily compensate and even get over. But if not, it’ll be tough.

It’s going to be a very interesting coming decade…

The Obsidian

gargod November 16, 2009 at 14:05

Obsidian,

I am in total agreement with you. I am a good looking guy whose friends are dirtbags who get more attention than I do. But, I will say this, with resources comes opportunity. I can now place myself into a position where I get to choose whom I can date based on their income (can’t wait for the mens nights at the bar ‘does that sound gay’, LOL, I digress). I think the bigger problem will be something of this sort, the most attractive females are not too worried about becoming a doctor and thus are going to be unable to surround themselves with men of substance (i.e. us guys who work and don’t have a lot of time for bar hopping and the like). So now as we grow older and our circle of friends becomes more limited, and considering the risk of dating someone of lesser earning capacity, it will be a much tougher environment for attactive female to find partners (new moon cougar crowd) and even for the 30% of men. Which honestly leaves about 3 options I can see, rosy, vasectomy, or a real doll (or any combination you choose).

Thoughts?

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 14:11

only a very small number of Women can win. All the others go through varying degrees of pump and dump routines.

Which makes them vulnerable to hitting their Wile E. Coyote moment (age 34-37) when their attractiveness to men falls sharply and (to them) unexpectedly. In the old days, the steady hand of mothers and grandmothers made sure a young woman was married off while her value was still high. Today, this lack of stewardship is costing ‘empowered’ and ‘independent’ young women heavily.

It’s going to be a very interesting coming decade…

As we know, men will be somewhat better off in 2020 than in 2010, while women will be dramatically worse off. I know a bubble when I see one……

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Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 14:20

Gargod,
Yea, the really hot chicks actually are gonna find themselves in something of a bind too, as they vie for the hot boys along with the middling chicks who are between 4 and 7 on the attractiveness scale. The reason? Simple – most guys would rather hookup with the “surething” chick, and they tend to be the middling gals, than go for broke (and literally go broke – remember, MOST Men don’t get laid, and don’t have Game either) on the Certified Dime. So, this means that Dimes will actually get little action – they made out better during what some call “Marriage 1.0″. Now that the SMP has been deregulated, they’ll take a considerable hit – much like Nordstrom’s takes a hit when Walmart sets up shop accross the street.

The Obsidian

Globalman November 16, 2009 at 14:20

Obsidian,
women have the intellectual capacity of 7-10 year old boys. I bet you can’t find much in the boyosphere about the mancession and how it is affecting dating either. You simply can not expect anything to be written by a woman that requires anything above a the intellectual capacity of a 10 year old boy. If you do, put a cross on the wall. You will die with plenty of blank space on your wall.

You are amazed you don’t see these articles? I am amazed you are amazed. There are so few women capable of even thinking about these things let alone also publishing something sensible about them.

“The point is, for the first time in human history, Women en masse won’t be the winners of the mating game. For the first time, they’ll be the losers.”

Obsidian, very astute. I’ve not heard many men say this. I figured this out about 15 months ago. But it is actually much worse for women than your point out here. Sure, if there were no PTB driving this thing then women would be the big losers as they are ‘forced’ into the workforce by the promise of a ‘glamorous career’ and men are forced out of the workforce by guvment mandate. The ‘winner’ gets to work for 40-45 years…way to go!

But that aside….it’s much worse. The REAL goal is to cut the population wwwaaaayyyyy back to 500M. To do that they have to kill a lot of women and children. To do that they needed to get the men, who have been brainwashed to defend them, out of the way. I laughed my arse off when I realised the whole womens lib thing was a prelude to killing as many women as possible and then oppressing the hell out of the rest of them. Really, I just laughed my arse off.

Yep…women are on the bad side of the dating game now, and it’s only going to get worse. It used to be that ALL men were EXPECTED to take a wife and support her and have children with her. As more men wake up to the fraud that women are they are refusing to marry or have children in droves. This is leaving women on the shelf. Maybe they can all move to china! LOL!

I only have to look in Germany where a guy like me is in much demand and women are desperate as hell. This makes getting laid easier than getting fed. And all the women bitch about the same thing..”men are afraid to commit”. Blah, blah, blah boo hoo…Nope….we are just enjoying getting laid as much as we can sweetie. Suck it up.

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Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 14:23

TFH,
You know, we gotta include that phrase of yours in the next Game Dictionary, LOL. I love it! And it’s so on point, too.

Anyway, yea, Women have been enjoying a seriously artifically inflated “bump” in the market for a very long time now. And soon, the bubble will burst. The Mancession and the Shriver Report clearly points to this.

The Obsidian

Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 14:34

Globalman,
Yea. Recently I had a bit of back and forth with Susan Walsh, who runs a dating advice site for young college aged Women called Hooking Up Smart, over at my blog. When she said that she was a Wharton MBA grad, my jaw hit the floor. One would think that she would be on top of these things alot more than most of us would, but I see I was seriously wrong on that score. I honestly do think that it is beyond the vast majority of Women’s capacity to see things like this coming down the pike, because of that “tunnel vision” Devlin spoke of. I’ve discussed Game principles with a number of Women offlist – I mean Women who make darn near six figures and have Ivy League degrees – and they are completely clueless. As TFH said, I knew these Women and what motivated them, bettter than they did. As it has often been said, and it bears repeating – Game, is some powerful ish.

The Obsidian

Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 14:40

Omega Man,
Yup, you nailed it – many Women, being completely naive as to how much they overestimate their sexual power, thinks that a fling or series of flings with putative Alphas is all they really need – the problem in that, is as they age out of their prime sexual attractiveness years, and as the Great Recession finally begins to turn back on them – because all those cushy gov’t and quasi-gov’t jobs simply cannot last forever – many of those Women will be ready to “settle down” – but they will be few takers. At least among the Men who have options, which tend to be the Men few Women actualy want.

The ONLY way I can see a way out for such a Woman in that scenario, is what TFH said – she has to be able to LOVE, and really treat a Man right. Barring that, it’s gonna be a very lonely, very bitter, middle age for many a Woman.

The Obsidian

wow November 16, 2009 at 14:53

When all men figure out that feminsim has really liberated men, then women will shit themselves.

No marriage
No cohabitation
No children

…no problem feminists, you’ve simply betrayed the sisterhood…congrats dummies!

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gargod November 16, 2009 at 15:07

I think the really scary part here is that we are about to be berated to death! Females have a very hard time with understanding and figuring out where they went wrong. So in effect, it will be our fault why there are no good men around. Irregardless of the fact they they supported a system that degraded men and capitalized on our so called destruction. It is highly concerning to me that there are no longer time or newsweek magazines near the cash register at grocery stores. All chic mags with mindless blather. Women are morons at least until they hit 50 and have to care about the world around them. Problem is they have had 40+ years of brainwashing.

Now I am a father and torn with the problem of raising my child to be self reliant against a system that is so damn content on raising them in a community. I went to my childs Parent teacher confernce, I am amazed that we pay these teachers for the crap they teach. BTW all the teachers were female that I saw. We are not preparing our children for their future.

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 15:08

The behavior of the Harpies on feministing is so incredibly hateful and cruel that they have to be called what they are : A hate group.

Feminism has evolved from seeking equal rights for women (a decent goal, despite gender realities) to seeking to nakedly seize resources from women. to openly being a hate group that would send men to the gas chambers if they could. With VAWA, the Bradley Amendment, and false rape laws, they are trying their best to enslave innocent men.

And the US constitution be damned.

This is evil, on a level comparable to the most tyrannical dictatorships.

The stupid myth that ‘women earn less than men for the same job’ is so shockingly ignorant that such a person does not deserve to be treated as a functioning adult. No one who has any idea of how a business is run could believe that ‘sexism’ trumps a business’s desire to lower costs and boost productivity.

The full, factually correct sentence is (with the 2nd half that feminists like to leave out) :

Women earn 75% of men for doing 70% of the work.

So relative to their output, women earn MORE. This of course makes the jobs women hold more vulnerable to outsourcing. No business wants to overpay someone relative to what they produce.

But there are monsters on femininsting who are ‘seethingly angry that women are still underpaid’. Yeah, stay angry. That is like being angry that 40 year olds make more than 22 year olds. Youth discrimination!! I am Angry!!! I am GRRRRRRL!!

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r November 16, 2009 at 15:21

Obsidian said:

“the problem in that, is as they age out of their prime sexual attractiveness years, and as the Great Recession finally begins to turn back on them – because all those cushy gov’t and quasi-gov’t jobs simply cannot last forever – many of those Women will be ready to “settle down” – but the(re) will be few takers.”

I think the only change I would make is to replace “few takers” with “no takers”. An aging woman who cannot give a man a family of his own (never mind other men’s children, that doesn’t interest me) because she squandered her most fertile years really has little if anything to offer a man. She’s lost or is rapidly losing her looks, odds are that she becomes more bitter as time passes because that crowd of men who used to approach her in her prime has dwindled to few or no men. And she cannot vent about ‘shallow’ men who now ignore her because of her fading attractiveness when in her prime she ignored decent men who weren’t alphas. As such men were invisible to her then, so she becomes invisible now in her post-prime spinsterhood.

That’s when reality intrudes, as others have already noted. Because of the financial risks, fewer men seem to be willing to marry ‘for love’ according to my unscientific perspective. Few things are sadder than a bitter middle-aged woman with a sagging skin and figure who remains convinced that most of her once-attractive self remains.

Enjoy the cats and angry spinster sisterhood, ladies. Too bad you didn’t marry the guy you passed up in your prime because he wasn’t ‘exciting enough’. If the rejected guy could meet you now, he would probably see you as about as attractive in your middle age as you saw him (and looked away with arrogant indifference) when you were in your prime and ignored his interest.

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Gx1080 November 16, 2009 at 15:31

Even the most subservant beta male would rather be the penisless friend of a hot, in her prime woman than let a cougar be anything else than a fuck and dump.

So, there’s takers. Desperate males fuck anything that is close and wet enough. They just will not be there in the morning.

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Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 15:46

TFH,
Yea, I’ve been giving what you said about my question to you over at my blog on the healthcare biz a lot of thought, and have come to the conclusion that what happened in the Blue Collar sectors will inevitably have to play out in the White Collar sector as well-meaning, a lot of “corrections” are about to come down the pike. I see the “Mancession” pretty much as having shot its load, if you will-as you rightly note, there’s not much more cutting that can be done on that front. Now the cuts come in sectors where Women tend to be most-gov’t/quasi gov’t entities, healthcare, education, civil service, etc.

You had suggested that more shocks to the system are enroute in 2011, and my own independent astro-analysis agrees-beginning in earnest in 2012, to run until 2016, our country will be rocked economically in a way that will make the current Great Recession/Mancession look tame in comparison. It will NOT be pretty.

Look, the bottomline is, that most guys, can weather the storm when things go bad-I’ve got a sleeping bag and my good ole Columbia gear, and if it comes to that, it ain’t nothing for me to rough it till things get better. But most Women, simply ain’t cut out for that sort of thing.

We’ve been through recessions and crashes before, but what we’re in right now is unpreceedented. Never ever, been seen before.
Like you said, the year 2020 should be a doozy.

The Obsidian

The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 16:00

Obsidian,

The thing is, the jobs that women are in – healthcare, education, public policy – are *highly* paid relative to their output, and this is only possible due to government support. They make more than factory workers or lower-end software engineers ever did. There are all sorts of government bureaucrats earning $140,000 – far more than the private sector would pay the same person.

But market forces don’t hold off forever. Medical tourism is the market’s response to the US healthcare system refusing to curb costs relative to value. It is a $700Billion opportunity!!

Education, too, is set to experience the same. Unlimited 1:1 online tutoring from India is available for $100/month for any US kid to use.

A man who is either a tradesman, or engineer, and who is still employed, can pretty much expect that there are no greater threats than what he has already weathered. That whole wave is mostly done.

Hence, from *this point on*, women have more downside than men. Men have already withstood their sifting sands, and have adjusted their expectations.

Women, however, have not, as evidenced by how they still crow (falsely) about ‘earning 75% of what a man earns’.

2020 : It will be *better* for men, worse for women. I welcome that correction myself.

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Arbitrary November 16, 2009 at 16:02

Obsidian, I’m not sure I agree with your timescale. Unless we see a collapse in the next eight months or so (the sort of thing we would have if, for example, Bank of America went bankrupt), I would expect a “jobless recovery” lasting a few years followed by a major collapse somewhere in the 2015 to 2018 range (maybe as early as 2014, but that’s pushing it). This tends to agree better with the typical boom-bust cycle length of around 8 to 12 years, noting that a lack of change in behavior leading to the collapse tends to shorten the cycle length.

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Fiercely Independent John Nada November 16, 2009 at 16:09

The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 3:08 pm
With VAWA, the Bradley Amendment, and false rape laws, they are trying their best to enslave innocent men.

And the US constitution be damned.

This is evil, on a level comparable to the most tyrannical dictatorships.

***
Don’t forget about IMBRA. Mating Foreign shows how little clothing the Empress really has in their overpriced pussy cartel.

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 16:10

My own forecast is for a recession in 2011, and then another around ~2017 or so. But not a depression in the true sense of the term. Just a repeat of the 1970s (1974-82, to be exact), but a bit worse.

Asia will be booming throughout this period.

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Obsidian November 16, 2009 at 16:12

TFH,
Yea, my nephew doesn’t even go to a bricks and mortar school, he does it all online. And I just heard on the radio that a Hebrew academy’s teachers went on strike over pensions, and that the governor (Rendell, PA) has laidoff yet another couple hundred state workers, bring his total to over 700 for the year. Nearby NJ and NY states are seriously cash strapped, as the taxbases, something you’ve written about, is maxed out.

And yea, what you said about folks being overpaid is very true. Like I said before, I have people I know and care about working in those sectors, and while I love em, I gotta say, they’re seriously overpaid, and they don’t produce anything. No way in hell could they do that in a blood n guts sales or product producing company. Just couldn’t happen.

So, I see the corrections coming very soon, all the moreso since, as you rightly note, the Baby Boomers have the means to simply outsource their medical needs.

This is gonna get nasty…

The Obsidian

The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 16:13

Don’t forget about IMBRA. Mating Foreign shows how little clothing the Empress really has in their overpriced pussy cartel.

IMBRA shows their evil intentions. But I don’t think it has much of a real effect on curbing marriages.

I see US man/foreign woman marriages happening all the time. Of course, these are more of the ‘genuine’ rather than ‘mail order’ variety. But they are common, which shows that the market position of US women is weakening.

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sig November 16, 2009 at 16:14

Horseman,

Every statistic they put out there is pure junk, like the one you mentioned about salaries, like the domestic violence and male=abuser bullshit hysteria they promote. I’ve seen these stats, they’ll either twist the truth or just flat-out lie. They’ve been able to do this with impunity because in our Orwellian society it is a thought-crime to dare think or say anything disparaging about the “1st class” female citizens, especially when you’re a member of the male lower class… They manufacture the hysteria to keep the hate flowing. Feminism is without question a hate movement.

Gargod,

There’s a book you should read called “The Harsh Truth About Public Schools” by Bruce Shortt. It is written from a Christian perspective but is not heavy-handed on the religious aspects, it is an excellent, very well-researched book and after reading it you will fully understand what is going on in our public school system. Actually, I recommend this book for every man on this forum who has or might have kids.

The schools are another “piece of the puzzle” as I like to call it, another brick in the wall to further cement the power of Bolshevism / Feminism. The Amerikan women we’re all talking about here were groomed to become the garbage that they are, largely by the degenerate public “education” they received starting at an early age, by MTV, Hollywood, etc. Brainwashing ‘em when they’re young, made all the easier since both parents work now and nobody is raising the kids. The feminization of our young men is also being actively promoted in the public school system, so no surprise that there are so many disgusting manginas out there. Nothing was left to chance here, folks. Steinem and Friedan set this up with the brilliance that only Communist Jews can muster when they sold women on the “career” taking precedence over homemaking, on the oppressive states of their “comfortable concentration camps”. There used to be a time not that long ago when a single middle-class income was sufficient to live comfortably in the U.S. Not a coincidence, just another well-executed piece of the puzzle. Women were dumb enough to fall for this, and they are hardly any happier for it and it will only get worse for them. Funny how it all fits together, no? Get the wife to go to work so she can be “free”, equals no stay-at-home parent to instill values, equals kids getting raised in govt-run schools that are full of Marxist teachers who care little about doing actual teaching, equals a degenerate, stupid populace that is easily led in the direction of moral relativism, bolshevism and eventual slavery/misery…

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Welmer November 16, 2009 at 16:15

My own forecast is for a recession in 2011, and then another around ~2017 or so. But not a depression in the true sense of the term. Just a repeat of the 1970s (1974-82, to be exact), but a bit worse.

Asia will be booming throughout this period.

You really think so, TFH? Maybe I should brush up on my rusty Mandarin.

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 16:22

You really think so, TFH?

Details here. 2011 is purely avoidable, but the US is not going to avoid it with their current actions. 2017 is more a forex re-alignment, with the recession merely being an outcome from the uncertainty premium and trade churn.

Maybe I should brush up on my rusty Mandarin.

The good thing is, there are more and more places in Asia where one can function on English alone, and even a half-knowledge of Mandarin is good enough for Shanghai or Taipei at this point.

Asia will have its own problems, though. Air pollution, for one, will be higher than any American will ever experience.

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Arbitrary November 16, 2009 at 16:26

I can’t imagine that the economies of the East will do a whole lot better than anywhere else in a collapse of the West; with their reserve being held in dollars China is stuck on the US’s sinking ship, and the growth in the economy of India is heavily dependent on American consumerism.

Certainly I think that both those countries will fare better than we will in the impending economic crisis. But a collapse in the US means a collapse the world over, and I don’t think the conditions are right for a repeat of the problems of the ’70s (because of coal gassification, energy prices can’t really spike as far, relatively speaking, as they did then).

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Welmer November 16, 2009 at 16:28

Details here. 2011 is purely avoidable, but the US is not going to avoid it with their current actions. 2017 is more a forex re-alignment, with the recession merely being an outcome from the uncertainty premium and trade churn.

-TFH

Looking forward to a post on that. ;)

The good thing is, there are more and more places in Asia where one can function on English alone, and even a half-knowledge of Mandarin is good enough for Shanghai or Taipei at this point.

Asia will have its own problems, though. Air pollution, for one, will be higher than any American will ever experience.

Oh, a couple months back in China and my Mandarin would be good enough to get by just fine — I was pretty fluent when I left 10 years ago.

As for the air pollution, Beijing can’t be worse than it was when I lived there. The sky was literally white from all the coal smoke, and you could smell coal as soon as you stepped off the airplane miles out of town. I think it’s actually better today than it has been in twenty years or so.

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Hawaiian Libertarian November 16, 2009 at 16:29

Funny how it all fits together, no? Get the wife to go to work so she can be “free”, equals no stay-at-home parent to instill values, equals kids getting raised in govt-run schools that are full of Marxist teachers who care little about doing actual teaching, equals a degenerate, stupid populace that is easily led in the direction of moral relativism, bolshevism and eventual slavery/misery…

Oh yes sig, and there’s another piece of the puzzel regarding the promotion of dietary propaganda that also perpetuates sickness and obesity. Gotta fatten the sheeple before you lead ‘em to slaughter…

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 16:30

Arbitrary,

People overuse the word ‘collapse’.

What the US will see is two recessions, and a lot of stress and dislocation. That is not a ‘collapse’, but a contraction.

Even amidst this, the electronic gizmos available to everyone will continue to get better and better, and new medical advances will continue to extend the boundaries of medicine.

Living standards in 2020 will be higher in 2010 (and better for men than women, relative to today). It is the churn in between that will be troubling.

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Arbitrary November 16, 2009 at 16:33

Looking at your link, I’m not sure I agree with your 2011 assessment. The top brackets (most affected by the Bush taxcuts) will be paying the AMT regardless of the theoretical marginal rate; without a change in that policy, the Bush cuts are a moot point.

Your assessment of 2017 is similar to my assessment of a 2015 to 2018 collapse, although I expect it to be significantly worse.

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 16:37

Arbitrary,

What are the details of what you expect in 2015-18? How bad do you expect it to get, and why?

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Arbitrary November 16, 2009 at 17:03

I expect an actual collapse, not just a contraction.

Over the next three years, look for a 40-50% rise in the price of gold; other inflation indicators will continue to be masked by the outsourcing of production (except for food, bad cars, sleazy finance deals, and anything else the government decides to subsidize, equally masking the inflation). Jobs figures will stay roughly where they are, wage growth will be lackluster at best, and housing prices will creep back up at their more usual historical rate (after suffering a dip whenever the $8000 tax credit is allowed to end). These will all be covering the fact that the underlying financial system will not have changed in nature–even slightly–until, by the time the correction of the latter half of the ’10s comes, the conditions will be right for a complete panic, and a run on the dollar, which will end in one of three ways:

1) another Great Depression, minus the starvation (thanks to advances in farming technology)–think vast hyperinflation. I feel sorry for the boomers who will be in retirement or entering retirement then. If there’s anything that makes me think another rise of communism is possible, it’s this.
2) the US reneging on all (or most) of the foreign-held debt. This could result in war, but will more likely be as part of a political deal that will make the US-China relationship like the China-USSR relationship.
3) an international cartel buying up the US debt after the initial panic, in return for getting to set US fiscal policy in order to increase the chances of recovery. This outcome probably makes things improve in the US the fastest, but represents the greatest loss of international political power of the lot. It also requires that some group actually be insulated from the panic; look for a country stockpiling precious metals or some other resource likely to survive a currency collapse for the first clues that this outcome might occur.

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piercedhead November 16, 2009 at 17:06

Considering the BRIC economies represent roughly 8 times the land and population of the US, that they possess enormous resources, stretch across all climates, have extensive shorelines on all the world’s oceans and have huge educated, growing numbers of people with middle-class aspirations, I fail to see how the US wouldn’t be able to adjust to this and find opportunities for itself. The US will certainly cease to be the dominant economy, military power and exporter of cultural values in the near future, but this isn’t necessarily a bad thing (consider how well small countries like Switzerland and the Netherlands do, simply by being able to supply much larger economies with high-value goods).

The US has great advantages that would allow it to prosper as a smaller player in a much larger world economy (for one, I don’t see any of the emerging economies adopting Russian, Mandarin, Hindi or Portuguese as their preferred language of trade over English). Americans may be uncomfortable with the idea of no longer being the world’s only super-power, but I doubt that status has anywhere near the value that is popularly imagined. It might not be evident now, but I can’t see the US not benefiting from the rest of the world getting richer, and becoming more export oriented. As I see it, America’s biggest problem right now is the absence of large wealthy economies of its own scale to sell to. There is a limit to how large anything can grow before it ceases to be viable.

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Arbitrary November 16, 2009 at 17:56

The problem isn’t that the US can’t adjust to a world where it isn’t number one, the problem is that it has refused to take any steps towards doing so. Instead, it has done everything in its power to keep on pretending that nothing has changed about world production structures from half a century ago.

Really, the parallels to the behaviors of women are staggering. The US, as a country, has frittered away its production capacity, and spent its way into oblivion. A decade from now, the US will be filing for divorce with a world that already hates it, and trying to hit it up for alimony (to keep its own internal structures afloat), and child support (to keep the corrupt regimes it has propped up from war or collapse). Unfortunately for the US, there is no world family court, and the American economic system will only get propped up as long as some other country with the means has the desire to support it.

An America that isn’t a superpower can’t support the grossly expensive systems of social security and welfare, can’t continue to prop up the current pharmaceutical research structure (for the rest of the world’s benefit), can’t continue the vast well of technological innovation that has come from its military-industrial complex–or even protect that knowledge and talent from leaving its borders (unless it sells a lot more technology and hardware abroad–a proposition requiring an interested buyer). A non-superpower America is a vastly different place than where we now live, and the path we’re heading down to get there has huge chasms of social problems in between.

Avoiding this fate is, in my opinion, still possible. But I’m less and less confident in it actually happening.

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 18:09

America is still sturdier than just about any other large OECD country. It is more durable than Britain, Japan, France, Germany, Canada, etc.

It won’t collapse. It will merely lose its exceptionalism (which may already be gone).

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Rum November 16, 2009 at 18:40

We have a President who seems to despise the idea of American Exceptionalism.
Hence his weirdly deep bowing to Saudi Kings and Asian Emporers.

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G November 16, 2009 at 19:18

@Arbitrary

Like India buying 200 tons of gold ? http://www.marketwatch.com/story/indias-central-bank-buys-200-tons-of-imf-gold-2009-11-03
or the ounce of Gold making nearly new highs every day this month ? http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/aunov09.gif

I think leaving the country for Eastern-Europe or South-America is probably the best option. We are talking hyper-inflation here and I will not be surprised if we observe acts of civil agitation.

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Nemo November 16, 2009 at 20:57

Think about this, guys.

Some inner cities have an 80% bastardy rate. Two black women graduate college for every black male graduate. It’s no secret that blacks earn much less than other ethnic groups (with a few exceptions, such as Native Americans), and this trend will accelerate as more and more jobs require a good education. It’s clear that illegitimacy and poverty go hand-in-hand.

When the Moynihan report was released in 1965, the worry was that the black illegitimacy rate had hit 23.6& and was still rising. Now the rate is 70% for blacks and about 40% for all races.

Soon every family in the US will be devastated by liberalism and feminism in the same manner that the black family has been shattered.

If the government stopped transferring wealth from other places into the black community, would it collapse? What happens when every racial group has a 70% illegitmacy rate?

Who will pay for all of these illegitimate kids when there is no longer a large pool of productive men to tax? Single moms rarely reproduce with doctors, lawyers, or engineers. They usually mate with thugs. Can we collect lots of taxes from thugspawn?

We’ve been treating productive men in the US in the same manner that logging companies treated trees in the 19th century. We’ve “clear-cut” all of the Nice Guys from coast to coast and failed to replenish their numbers. Patriarchy produces more patriarchs, matriarchy produces welfare queens and ghettoes.

We have transitioned fully into matriarchy in the black community and are past the halfway point in the US as a whole. We are past the tipping point. Things are avalanching into political, economic, and social chaos.

We can no longer afford to continue to subsidize our womenfolk to pop out thugspawn on somebody else’s dime. Matriarchy’s going to end one way or another, and the probable outcome is anarchy rather than a renewal of patriarchy.

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Arbitrary November 16, 2009 at 21:17

G,

That is indeed a motion in the general direction I’m talking about for India…but, while 200 tons sounds impressive, it is only a percent or two of India’s foreign currency holding; if I’m right we should see much more of this sort of stockpiling over the coming years.

The gold price I’m looking for over the next few years is around US$1600/oz.; this is based on the historic ratio of the price of the Dow to the price of gold (see the chart at http://blogs.reuters.com/rolfe-winkler/2009/11/11/chart-of-the-day-the-dow-priced-in-gold/ ). Depending on the exact economic climate at that time it could go in either direction from there; I’ll know more as the time approaches.

I’m not yet prepared to give up on saving the West, but I’m not especially hopeful either.

TFH

I sincerely hope you’re right. I unfortunately suspect you’re wrong.

A country where 3 in 8 workers work for the government directly, the educational system, the health care system, or the finance industry has leveraged its actual production of value to a dangerous degree; the end of its ability to continue to do so will not be soft or easily overcome (full disclosure, this statistic sounds somewhat worse than it is, half a century ago 1 in 4 American workers were in one of these four fields). It’s possible that I’ve misread the indicators, and the next bust won’t be the big one. But it’s coming, and the longer it takes to for us to get there, the bigger it will be.

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The Fifth Horseman November 16, 2009 at 22:33

Governments (both Federal and State) are already exceeding their budgets by a mile, and tax increases are no longer leading to more revenue (due to shrinkage in productive work done).

The tax base is maxed out. This will force the Government to reduce payrolls. No choice. Even Hu Jintao is demanding that Obama do this. Public sector layoffs are actually better for the economy.

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Niko November 16, 2009 at 22:38

What a forum!! The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Spearhead has to create its own Nobel prize, these posts are gold.

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epiclolz November 16, 2009 at 23:04

I’m surprised that they didn’t mention contango and backwardation of the futures markets. The backwardation of youth/beauty and the contango of status of age/knowledge/power.

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David Brandt November 16, 2009 at 23:22

There is currently an audit in my state, NM. A woman just resigned her appointed position (a do-nothing political ‘job’, one out of many) and it was revealed that she was making $150,000/year. People are screaming bloody murder, and state administrators and employees with do-nothing jobs are scrambling. Layers of political hires and promotions and bureaucracy scared shitless. Ouch.

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kis November 16, 2009 at 23:51

Gotta be careful with firings, layoffs and involuntary resignations. Sometimes the severence pay exceeds the benefits of getting rid of them. We get that shit in Canada all the time–we’ve had bureaucrats resign from $150/year jobs with six months left on their contracts, and severence payouts of twice their yearly salary.

Same with government/private sector deals. I still remember the Sea-King helicopter fiasco–Mulroney contracted new choppers for the military for $4.8 billion, everyone screamed “government waste!” and then when Cretien came in, he cancelled the contract. The cancellation penalty was $500 million, and the same people who cheered him for scrapping the deal all freaked when the old helicopters started crashing into the ocean. The freaking things require 30 hours of maintenance for every hour of flight, and they still fall out of the sky.

Now we’re on the hook for almost $6 billion (plus that $500 million that got us nothing, plus all those man-hours keeping the aging fleet fit to fly for the last 10+ years) to get helicopters we desperately need and should have had years ago.

That’s how governments “cut public sector spending”.

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zel November 17, 2009 at 00:44

I had a train of thought with regard this discussion, but… now its gone(must be old age).
Anyway! Here is some info on a novel written by Joanna Russ(feminist). Fantasy stuff… you may find interesting.

The Female Man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Female_Man

I think I was going to bring into the discussion something to do with the gender feminists agenda(shiver), lesbians and bi-sexual women… and… men something. NOPE! Its gone again(shrug), sorry.

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Jerry Foreman November 17, 2009 at 02:26

Fifth Horseman,

Regarding IMBRA “not having that much of an effect on marriages to foreigners” you missed a huge point: not only have feminists established with this law that men do not have a right to approach women anonymously (a devastating blow to PUA rights), most men meeting foreign women are doing so for sex and companionship, not for actual marriage which they would be stupid to do (because of VAWA and divorce laws, etc). The law is a major cockblock.

Meeting someone online is no less “genuine” than otherwise. I live in Eastern Europe and 9 out of 10 dates are with someone I met in pubic (approach + game = plenty of dates). But a local marriage agency does, now and then, set me up with someone amazing or extremely appropriate for a dating relationship. Who’s talking about marriage?

The problem is that women without email or home Internet access can no longer be met in real time if a dating site complies with IMBRA, which means for a traveling US male, that they cannot be met at all. If you are in Moscow for the weekend with a flight on Monday, you should be able to get the phone number and address of a woman you want to meet and who wants to meet guys like you on Saturday. IMBRA says you cannot get this information on Saturday unless she reads her email on Saturday if she has email (this is all regardless of the will of the foreign women to have their contact info broadcast to strangers). When and if a woman reads email at work on Monday (or a local agency calls her on Monday) and she signs US feminist government paperwork, then you can get her contact information. You will be sitting on an airplane or back home in the USA when you get an email with her phone number.

You were C-blocked on Saturday and Sunday nights, in the country of an attractive woman, care of US feminists working as aides for Republican and Democrat Senators and Congresspeople to create an extra-jurisdictional law.

This is like a US Marshall walking on a foreign beach between you and some woman lying on a beach blanket…and asking to examine your documents while some other guys walk up to them and they all go off to a restaurant while you’re fuming at the US marshall who has you blocked and who has NO RIGHT to be standing there on that foreign beach telling you to do anything.

Even worse, the effect of IMBRA is like when “Capos” were assigned by the Germans to run the daily life in concentration camps. The feminists laugh when they note that some marriage agencies have interpreted IMBRA to be more than it is. Foreign dating sites including the largest and most “trusted” have used IMBRA as an excuse to build fake profiles and run a letter writing game on beta idiots who believe the law reflects a general attitude of paranoia among foreign women in not wanting to give out their contact info (nothing could be further from the truth). They lie to US men saying that the woman can write letters to you but IMBRA won’t let them give out further contact info (in reality IMBRA is all or nothing- no communication unless a woman signs the background checks).

The largest dating site even admits that IMBRA helps them upsell men to taking tours where the specific woman a man wants to meet will probably not attend – meaning he would be wasting $3000 and be back at square one where, before IMBRA, he would have paid $15 for her home address and phone number.

Real alphas are blocked from saying “I want to pay $40 for the phone number of that woman there” which they used to be able to do for $15 before IMBRA (US feminists basically got a law passed that significantly raised the price of a foreign woman’s phone number). Agencies see more profit in taking $111 from the beta idiots. This is why the agencies dropped their lawsuits against the law and actually (in both IMBRA challenges) sabotaged their own cases so they (and US males) would definitely lose. It is more profitable for a dating site when people do not meet others easily and get satisfied with one person.

This really hurts the expat community in a few countries but the alpha males it effects are precisely those guys who also do well meeting women otherwise, so they haven’t let this bother them enough to go back to the US to challenge the law properly. But someone should challenge this immediately because of the precedent it set.

So, when considering the ugly precedent set that can be REVERSED if someone just stood up and challenged this in court, please stop thinking of IMBRA as having just cut off a minor avenue for men. In court the Tahirih Justice Center argued that IMBRA was constitutional because the intention is to regulate men (background check them) for all dating sites, including “domestic” sites like Match.com.

The two challenges were conducted by half-hearted incompetents. A liberal federal judge, Clinton appointee Clarence Cooper, upheld IMBRA at the district level saying “meeting someone online is like buying a gun, both need background checks” A Republican federal judge denied a restraining order on the law saying “There is no fundamental liberty interest in an American contacting a foreigner”. This beta, Judge Thomas Rose of the 6th District, is a 48 year old Bush Junior appointee with a same-age wife and two 27 year old daughters.

So we have the Bush people and Clinton wanting to do the blocking. The Republican Supreme Court justices were against the principle of Internet anonymity when Justice Anthony sided with the liberals to protect that by declaring the Communications Decency Act to be partly unconstitutional. Republican judges believe that the film American Beauty should never have been filmed and that the age of consent should be raised to 18 everywhere. So, given this general general attitude, it is not certain that they won’t uphold IMBRA even though it is about adults meeting each other. But the conservative justices have overturned VAWA several times, albeit too timidly to have the entire law junked.

In conclusion, MRA and PUAs need to be organizing an easy challenge to IMBRA which can get a restraining order on the law within 3 days after filing if we can find just ONE person to be the warm body to actually walk into a US federal courthouse and file the complaint.

There are several people who could write a good IMBRA challenge that no judge could deny a restraining order for without saying:

1) I am hereby stating that nobody has a right to talk to strangers online anonymously.

2) The Right to Assemble does not apply to meeting foreigners.

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Thug Seduction November 17, 2009 at 06:17

Wow, this is a great article with one seriously glaring omission. You neglected to discuss at all how women will also happily spread their legs for physically and/or psychologically dominant males, no matter how poor they might be. And with the continued collapse of society, there’s going to be more and more of those guys out on the streets. Women for whom prosperous men are out of reach, or women looking to slum, will feel their vaginas tingle over millions of thugs. Of course, the problem of that is that thugs have a tendency to father babies they refuse to raise, and they also have a tendency to be abusive.

So , we’ll have even more fatherless kids coming up in the world. And feminists will be pushing for ever-more draconian repression of men as the increasing number of abusive thugs “do what thugs do.” They will make no distinction between thugs and other men, because the agenda is “all men are the same.”

Once again, African-Americans are also the canary in the coal mine on this issue. I happen to appreciate Black culture in general and African-American women in particular, but one cannot overlook the fact that some African-American women have been the willing conquest of thugs, are impregnated, and then raise the next generation of thugs and thug-enablers. I have known more than a few African-American beta males – Good guys with stable jobs, who cannot get a black woman to pay attention to them because they did not fit the thug persona. I actually gave one really intelligent Beta black man I knew some recommendations of Game websites to look at, and he proceeded to date some pretty nice-looking White girls. Play on, player.

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chic noir November 17, 2009 at 15:43

American women in particular, but one cannot overlook the fact that some African-American women have been the willing conquest of thugs
It’s not the thuggish behavior that is the biggest turnon. It’s the money from fast living and being with a man who can protect you that these types of women find a turnon.

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clarence November 17, 2009 at 15:51

Jerry Foreman:

Thank you for a very enlightening post, assuming what you say checks out. I was aware of IMBRA, I was not aware of all the details, and as I am currently at least not going foreign, I had no idea how the “matchmaker ” sites were acting.

Very disgusting if you ask me. You speak of a court case needing to be tested. Could you spell out in more detail what you mean?

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Thug Seduction November 17, 2009 at 16:02

Chic Noir says:
“not the thuggish behavior that is the biggest turnon. It’s the money from fast living and being with a man who can protect you”

Not sure I agree. That may be the appeal of a rich man who pretends to be a thug, I can see that. But all of us can point to men who are literally broke, who get women by a physically/psychologically dominant attitude alone.

By the way, I understand the female genetic imperative of getting impregnated by the most dominant male. It’s just that in modern times, the men best at beating each over the head with clubs are not the men most capable of building a society that evolves for the future.

Women’s sexual choices contradict all the things they say they want in a man.

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miles November 18, 2009 at 03:53

“now ajourn your asses”……that was genuinely funny.

It is kinda sad isn’t it? I have said it before, and I’ll say it again……..feminism’s biggest (real) consequence, is going to be many lonely, middle-aged, past-fertility women in about 10-15 more years. I wouldn’t be suprised if almost 20-out-of-a-100 women does not wind up this way near larger cities. Childless and alone, past fertility, with only marginal-pump-n-dump value for desperate men left, facing retirement and monetary problems all alone. They will be invisible.

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Kimski November 18, 2009 at 04:02

Kimski
“They will be invisible”

Or, hopefully, join the ranks of the MRA and start to speak up.
(Wishful thinking, I know, but then again…:)

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Jerry Foreman November 18, 2009 at 14:13

Clarence,

If you aren’t doing foreign + domestic simultaneously, you must be having a budget problem. Then again, since you can convince many US college coeds to sleep with you by spending $500 on dates, I can understand how a man with a great job in the US might not be able to afford to fly to East Europe because he’s spending a lot on dating in the US.

Read http://www.OnlineDatingRights.com to check out the facts. Wikipedia is run by federally funded feminist organizations so you’ll get their spin there (they keep deleting when someone notes that 1000 US wives are murdered per year where they’ve stated that IMBRA was necessary because 2 foreign women were murdered in a 15 year period).

For VAWA and IMBRA, all we need is one American citizen to take the time to write something on the back of a napkin and present it to a federal judge. The judge will have to deliberate.

We just need to find one person who would use their real name.

Most US males have no idea that, to defend their rights, at least one out of 140 million of them has to, now and then, do that.

What is shocking, and what is the reason why the feminists have established such a gynocracy, is that US men don’t seem to understand that federal courts exist for them to complain in, without a lawyer if necessary. But the $8000 to use a lawyer is the easy part. The hard part is finding one volunteer.

Now I’ve heard that, when forced, US men do go to family court for stupid minor reasons like saving their own little house or winning visitation rights for their own little kids. But family court takes its authority from the fact that the federal Supreme Court hasn’t been asked to declare fundamental male rights the way feminists intelligently got Roe vs Wade past the Supreme Court giving them a somewhat questionable new “right”.

Going to family court doesn’t challenge VAWA and federal funding for women’s shelters directly which is what we should be doing. Going to court to save your own house is too little too late, it isn’t preemptive and its always on the defensive. Plus…it isn’t FEDERAL.

The federal courts don’t know what men look like. Men don’t seem to know how to approach federal courts. It would be as easy as walking into one at 9AM after writing something on a breakfast napkin at the local diner…but stupidity reigns…or the alpha males who would challenge laws are too tied up with their time and reputations in their own corporate activities.

Where are the retired military alpha males who could challenge laws? We just need the warm body and the willingness to use the real name. The corporate executives among us can actually write the complaint itself.

Let’s look at the sorry history of federal MRA challenges:

1) Woman in PA tries to get a rapist federally charged. Supreme Court conservatives decide rape isn’t a federal offense and overturn that part of VAWA but only for the narrow sense that a rapist can’t be tried in fed court. Democrat justices wanted to try and convict the rapist and send him to federal prison. Notice that, in this case, there was NO MAN challenging VAWA in a declaratory challenge which is what should have happened because he could have asked for a broader decision.

2) Woman in Colorado wanted the fed government to force the State of Colorado under VAWA to pay her $Millions because they failed to stop her stalker ex-husband from killing their children. Conservative SC justices said that the fed gov has no Constitutional right to punish a state for not stopping domestic violence. Dem justices were jumping at the bit to punish Colorado. She lost the case. But it should have been a man challenging VAWA because she was asking for a narrow decision and not what a man could have asked for if he said “do you feds think you have authority over my relationships with women and any physical activity that occurs within state lines”.

3) There were 2 IMBRA challenges mentioned above but they were by dating agencies that secretly wanted to lose their cases…others might tell you that they were simply incompetent. In any event, the plaintiffs completely ignored 100s of great arguments given at the above forum.

4) Roy Den Hollander challenged VAWA in 2008 saying that his Russian wife had been a stripper all along and he had been used for her to get into the country to continue her stripper career. When writing his challenge, Roy refused to work with any MRA who knew what they were talking about. He seemed like a paranoid loner. The judge laughed him out of court, acting like he’d been a fool (which he was) for marrying a stripper (the liberal judge also seemed to have the Marxist feminist attitude that the girl was just trying to get ahead in life and it was smart of her to exploit the kind of guy they think themselves try to exploit women).

Roy then failed to appeal, which is probably for the best because he wouldn’t work with anyone smart who could have helped him with his arguments.

Challenging laws requires having a brain and, sadly, even most MRAs just can’t process info logically enough to make an airtight case that would force the Supreme Court to definitively overturn VAWA and IMBRA…even though the logic and the facts are staring us all in the face.

Talk of “Game” and PUA and MRA is meaningless as long as these laws make a mockery of marriage and establish the precedent that the US federal government has the right to stand between us and women and say “background check please”.

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zed November 18, 2009 at 14:23

It’s not the thuggish behavior that is the biggest turnon. It’s the money from fast living and being with a man who can protect you that these types of women find a turnon.

LOL! This reminds me of a line by the Bernadette Peters character in “The Jerk” – “It’s not the money I’m going to miss, it’s all the STUFF we could buy with it.”

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Doug1 November 18, 2009 at 14:42

Obsidian–

Yea, the really hot chicks actually are gonna find themselves in something of a bind too, as they vie for the hot boys along with the middling chicks who are between 4 and 7 on the attractiveness scale. The reason? Simple – most guys would rather hookup with the “surething” chick, and they tend to be the middling gals, than go for broke (and literally go broke – remember, MOST Men don’t get laid, and don’t have Game either) on the Certified Dime. So, this means that Dimes will actually get little action – they made out better during what some call “Marriage 1.0″. Now that the SMP has been deregulated, they’ll take a considerable hit – much like Nordstrom’s takes a hit when Walmart sets up shop accross the street.

Pure unadulterated rubbish.

Dimes see plenty of action if they want it. As much as they want from as high quality as they want. What they find harder than before is getting a male dime to commit.

Long on rhetoric. Short on analysis and insight.

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clarence November 18, 2009 at 15:11

Doug1:

I think you misunderstood and were “short ont he foresight”.

Most guy’s don’t have game.
Most guy’s aren’t the natural ten’s and the tens who can commit, you can bet will ALL be taken ..as will the male 9′s..when the shit hits the fan.

So yeah, I can see some left behind dimes and female 9′s having trouble finding mates unless they are willing to “marry down”.

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DT November 23, 2009 at 23:22

Arbitrary – I don’t think the conditions are right for a repeat of the problems of the ’70s (because of coal gassification, energy prices can’t really spike as far, relatively speaking, as they did then).

Are you sure about that? I’m a big proponent of both coal gasification and the development of U.S. shale oil resources. But in both cases there’s a good 5-10 year lag between the day we say “let’s do it” and the day when we can produce most of the oil we consume. And that’s assuming no substantial challenges from environmentalists.

If the dollar were to collapse the price of oil to the U.S. could shoot up to $200 a barrel, $300 a barrel, or more in a very short span of time. We don’t have a single alternative technology or fuel source which can be ramped up to meet our demand within a comparable time frame.

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DT November 23, 2009 at 23:26

Hawaiian Libertarian – Oh yes sig, and there’s another piece of the puzzel regarding the promotion of dietary propaganda that also perpetuates sickness and obesity. Gotta fatten the sheeple before you lead ‘em to slaughter…

I would greatly appreciate it if you could post links and references which would lead those interested towards a better diet. Maybe a Spearhead article is in order.

I struggle to keep the weight and energy levels I want and I know it has a lot to do with my diet versus my metabolism in my 30′s. (Versus teens or 20′s when the body seems capable of handling anything, even drinking binges and 24 hour work sessions, with ease.)

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snoozin December 13, 2010 at 18:20

You pretentious windbag – LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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