Undermining the Orthodoxy: How Feminism will Consume Itself

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by W.F. Price on November 8, 2009

Cultures are very adaptable to circumstances and opportunities, but they don’t usually have much forethought. As I wrote in my piece on strategy and tactics, we men were put in our current position because we were a ripe fruit ready to be plucked and eaten. It didn’t really take very long for a coalition to form to squeeze every bit of juice out of us, and that coalition included people who traditionally railed against one another in everything from academic journals to supermarket tabloids. Feminists launched into Marxist tirades against the “patriarchy,” while traditional conservatives insisted that their version of civilization was the best.

However, when it came to gettin’, both sides seemed to agree that the hapless, typical man owed them something. Feminists wanted taxpayer-funded women’s programs, special health care for women, jobs for women, child support and alimony. Conservatives wanted men to sacrifice themselves for their country, capitalism and civic institutions such as marriage. Men were getting pushed and pulled this way and that, but eventually both the feminists and conservatives made a series of deals that they could both live with, making them allies of sorts. This culminated in the massive change in policy in the 1990s, in which welfare was largely shifted from the taxpayer to the father (and expanded thereby), the American workforce was feminized, police forces were militarized and expanded and American men were imprisoned at world record peacetime rates.

All of these things have hit young men with full force over the past decade, and yet there is another disaster looming over the horizon: the coming retirement of the baby boomers. When that happens in big numbers, it will be like a grand piano falling on the head of the younger male taxpayer. It will be a deal breaker.

Now, instead of feeling utterly defeatist about this, it’s got to be seen as an inevitable turning point. Young men have already been squeezed almost dry. I see the market reports on TV and have to chuckle a bit as the talking heads sell stocks to all the avaricious, largely elderly stockholders. It reminds me of the real estate agents in Hong Kong getting on TV right before the PRC takeover telling everyone that the time to buy Hong Kong real estate is NOW, NOW, NOW! Of course, HK real estate tanked immediately following the takeover, and SE Asia plunged into a recession for a year or so. I was in Hong Kong in late ’97, and nobody seemed too happy there. The stores were empty and the Pakistani merchants in Kowloon were so desperately aggressive in their efforts to shake me down that I just about decked one of them.

Now that working men have been pretty much cleaned out, and many are just plain out of work, people will soon realize that we aren’t much of a target worth pursuing anymore. Wealth has been increasingly concentrated in the hands of fewer Americans, but it has also been increasingly concentrated in the hands of older Americans, many of whom are retired, widows, unhealthy, unproductive, etc. Therefore, the emphasis on wealth redistribution will have to change, or a lot of people will start running out of revenue very soon, and it will take on far more ominous overtones in the popular imagination as weaker demographics are increasingly targeted.

As commenter Sestamibi wrote on a previous post:

The reality is that the world [..] of high-wage unionized low-skill jobs in auto plants and steel mills was the aberration, not the norm. It existed only from about 1946-1973. That means a whole generation has ALREADY grown up under the return to the status quo ante, and has no experience with $75/hour to install bumpers on Ford Escorts, such guys living in comfortable ranch houses with boats, rec vehicles, and all kinds of other toys.

Yes, that world is gone. I saw it fall apart first-hand, growing up in the now vanished working-class milieu of pre-1990s Seattle, where guys working at factories could still afford houses in nice neighborhoods near downtown. Nowadays, there are far fewer of these men, and those that remain live in the cheaper suburbs because their relative wealth is far lower than it used to be. So what will likely happen is that the coercive mechanisms that were used to extract money from the once wealthy working and middle classes will no longer be worth maintaining, because the return will no longer justify the cost.

First, I expect that we will see some reduction in imprisonment for child support arrears, because prisons are already cutting back operations and these guys are not generally the kind who get politicians in trouble for letting them out on the street, as opposed to, say, knife wielding maniacs. Then, some of the social agencies that make recommendations to judges in custody cases, etc., will start getting cut, as will some domestic violence programs and investigations (these are widely known to be wasteful because so many accusations are bogus in the context of divorce). I doubt that “obligations” will be changed substantially any time soon, but enforcement and the numerous hoops men are forced to jump through by courts may be significantly reduced. It really takes a lot of money to strictly control society, and having lived abroad I can say with some certainty that American society is heavily policed and controlled.

Next, men will probably begin to withdraw their voluntary support of some of the old standbys, such as buying family houses. Fewer men are getting married, those that are have grown increasingly afraid of losing a house in case of divorce, and people don’t trust real estate like they used to, so house prices should move toward reflecting their true value, which will start to eat away at the wealth of a lot of upper income and retired people.

Of course, there is always plain old inflation, and from the looks of things that’s what we’re going to have to live with in the face of the massive debt our government has incurred. It’s really an untenable situation we’ve dug ourselves into, and the old model of the productive family has been so thoroughly gutted that there won’t be much motivation on the part of young men to pull our country out of this mess.

What we’re facing is a system that does indeed oppress us as men, but also virtually guarantees its own failure. When it has truly achieved victory, and many, many men who would otherwise have been productive breadwinners are pushed to the margins of society, barely able to support themselves, let alone a family, it will run out of gas. We can only speculate as to what will happen after that, but one thing I’m pretty sure of is that women will share the misery as well. Sadly, many of the elderly will probably have a very rough time of it, as ruthless cost-cutting measures eat away at the benefits they receive.

As I wrote in the first sentence of this piece, cultures are adaptable. Men will adapt to the harsh reality they face. If there are structural limits to their happiness, they will find ways around them. Unfortunately for women, they have become a structural problem for men, so they shouldn’t expect much cooperation from them. It will become a time when chivalry is laughed at or punished, dishonesty and manipulation of women for financial or sexual gain is common, and men skate out of their obligations to females without any feelings of guilt. If you think about it, this is clearly the expansion of the ghetto culture (which was simply an early manifestation of the same process) across the entire country, with the exception of some God-fearing remnants in flyover country.

Given the state of modern Detroit – perhaps the first and most complete example of this ongoing process – which is reverting back to wilderness in many places, one might think this is an apocalyptic scenario. Perhaps it is as far as the old, traditional America is concerned, but we have to keep in mind that the destruction will be selective. Those of us who do some damage control can survive, and even thrive after a fashion. Those who take the biggest hit will be the current beneficiaries of this rotten, dysfunctional system. I can foresee a day when many people working in all these cake jobs in government and education simply stop getting paid, and the police and first responders start taking a half an hour or more to respond to 911 calls, because there aren’t enough of them, and those that remain are apathetic and demoralized.

Men will create new communities, first amongst each other, and then they will bring in the women they trust and their children. Our old ways and communities may have been broken, and our foes may be doing victory dances, but as I see it they’re about to give us a great opportunity to start over. Instability and anarchy favor men by their very nature, so when things really fall apart, we’ll be back in the driver’s seat by default.

Sound pessimistic? Maybe it is, but I see a lot of potential on the horizon.

{ 171 comments… read them below or add one }

Bob November 8, 2009 at 15:55

We’ve already seen the start of this in California. Government employees are being issued I.O.U.’s instead of paychecks, effectively turning part of their salary into interest-free loans to the state government. Others are being forced to take furlough days, giving them an effective pay cut without actually reducing their pay per hour of labor. College students are suffering the most from that – professors in state universities cannot legally appear on campus, respond to emails, or grade papers on furlough days. Most are doing so anyway, as that law is held in near-universal contempt, even among other state employees.

Of course, the same politicians who are destroying California’s budget are the ones who harp on ad nauseum about environmental “sustainability.” One wonders if they have ever balanced a checkbook.

This is just a microcosm of the federal government’s bloated state. The author is right, we are fast approaching the day when the government cannot sustain itself. I find it darkly humorous that when the government is finally forced to simply eliminate vast swathes of itself, the common citizen will not notice – unless those eliminated include the relatively visible family courts or police.

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Jack Donovan November 8, 2009 at 15:58

Excellent “big think” piece. Many likely outcomes, though there are so many potential variables at work. Kinda wish I was 10 years younger, because I think the next 10-20 years are going to be stressful…what Anthony Burgess called the “Interphase.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wanting_Seed

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Omega Man November 8, 2009 at 15:58

I have trouble believing the social service agencies are cutting back soon. Unproductive government jobs are the very heart of the power structure and while they are not in a position to hire, they will go to great lengths before actually shrinking or surrendering any power. Still while it may be impossible to starve the beast, it will eventually eat everything and starve anyway.

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Factory November 8, 2009 at 16:02

As some of you may already know, I have begun to create a series of “magazines” centered around men’s issues, the first issue of which was entitled “The Counter Feminist Issue”. The second issue is being (slowly) put together right now, the theme of which is Marriage, Divorce, and Child Custody.

The purpose of this magazine is NOT commercial, but rather a quick and easy resource to point to when questioned about our issues. The sheer enormity of what faces us is working against us, and while the web is an excellent resource, it doesn’t take the place of a quick, prepackaged (no searching) magazine.

With this in mind, I am putting out a call to anyone who fancies taking a crack at tackling some of these issues in an article. Anything from the prospect of marriage to the average guy, through Family Court injustice, through child custody hell, including false assignation of paternity…hell, there’s a whole book in those subjects alone..

The point is, I want issue- and solution-driven articles, that outline clearly the actual mechanics of the process. I hope to show through the entirelty of the magazine that all these “punishments” that many women seem to be OK with men suffering are seriously going to affect them, and it doesn’t matter if they’re “like that” or not. I want to show the injustice, and the effects of such.

I have been asked if this is an ego thing, the answer is no. Is this a commercial thing? Hopefully, but right now it serves a purely informational purpose. Also, I am not asking for new work, just anything you may have that’s germaine, or anything you know of that struck you as a good article.

If you would be so kind as to email these links and articles to my Gmail account, mrm.magazine (a) gmail.com

This is not to be a feminist bashing magazine (fun as that is), I want to keep it purpose driven, but the odd crack is no big deal. :)

I know this is “spam”, but I’m hoping given the cause that it’ll be ok to post…

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Pro-male/Anti-feminist Tech November 8, 2009 at 16:25

I have trouble believing the social service agencies are cutting back soon. Unproductive government jobs are the very heart of the power structure and while they are not in a position to hire, they will go to great lengths before actually shrinking or surrendering any power.

It probably will take a while, and it isn’t going to be voluntary so expect a big fight. However, feminism has the same problem socialism does. Eventually, you run out of other people’s (or in this case men’s) money.

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Amateur Strategist November 8, 2009 at 17:07

Fedrz, I believe most the most influential articles have been from you (via NO MAAM), Zed, or The Counter Feminist… (There are others, but you guys really brought me into the mix)

If I do find a “epiphany” article that I found very informative and offered a solution that was sound, but is not written by myself, would you need to contact them for permission to use it?

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 17:37

Superb article.

Let me also add :

1) I am becoming quite certain that the US tax base is maxed out. A rise in tax rates will no longer cause an increase in revenue, but rather a drop in it. We will see this after taxes rise on 1/1/2011. Hence feminism/leftism, given the already gaping budget deficit, has already outgrown the host.

2) Women are pricing themselves out of the market, both for marriage and dating. Misandric divorce laws are bad enough, but the false-rape industry that is growing, will be the death knell. More and more men will be too afraid of the risks, and will simply disengage. Women who are below a 7 in looks will find that men are just not willing to risk interacting with them, and will thus be left out. Simultaneously, adult entertainment technologies will become more advanced and pull men away from real women from the other direction.

I see more and more signs that feminism is peaking.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 17:41

This warrants saying a second time : Superb article.

I am going to cite it heavily in the future.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 17:56

All this, of course, is a boom for emerging markets, who are getting a massive flow of capital and talent into their countries, for having done very little other than maintain normative gender roles in their societies.

It is amazing when other entities can get a windfall simply because the wealthier entity screwed itself up totally of on its own.

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Slartibartfast November 8, 2009 at 18:02

Donovan said:
“I think the next 10-20 years are going to be stressful”

It is usually during times of strife and upheaval that great opportunities present themselves. The question is where. If society is going to hell in a hand-basket where do we look to generate the financial means necessary to come out on top? Inflation is going to be a motherf***er over the next decade or so and I , as a 40 year old man, refuse to live a 2nd or even 3rd world existence in my dotage due to the fecklessness of our elected officials. Any thoughts on this will be appreciated, designing fjords hasn’t been as lucrative as I’d hoped.

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Slartibartfast November 8, 2009 at 18:06

5th Horsey said:

” Women who are below a 7 in looks will find that men are just not willing to risk interacting with them”

Seriously? No women under a 7? If it’s got a pussy and a smile, someone will fuck it.

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Slartibartfast November 8, 2009 at 18:07

… ixnay on the milesay…..If it has a pussy somebody will fuck it. Have you never heard of BOURBON, man??

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AC November 8, 2009 at 18:13

I think we will see some elements of what you are saying – you’re certainly correct that the money gravy train is going to run out within a generation. However I think you underestimate the power of men’s attachment to women and the strength of the monogamous pair-bond, particularly in times of stress. SOME men may break away into male-only enclaves, but the majority will not, just like most feminist women live in some version of a conventional marriage, not in lesbian communes.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 18:16

Seriously? No women under a 7? If it’s got a pussy and a smile, someone will fuck it.

Have you read the false rape article right before this?

*Some* guys will get scared off, leaving fewer men for more women to compete over.

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fedrz November 8, 2009 at 18:16

Amateur Strategist,

You certainly don’t need my permission to use anything I have written. Hell, plagiarize it directly if you wish. I steal a lot of words, phrases, paragraphs and entire arguments directly from Zed and Angry Harry. Heh, neither has brought a civil suit against me – so far.

In fact, what is on my blog is pretty much little bits and pieces of hundreds of different authors I have read – many unacknowledged because I don’t always remember who they are, so, it isn’t really entirely “mine” either, but what came out after filtering out all that came in.

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rebel November 8, 2009 at 18:27

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

In times of crisis, many suffer severe drawbacks, but many also benefit financially. The future belongs to the bold.

We live in very exciting times: the changes ahead are stupendous.

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Slartibartfast November 8, 2009 at 18:27

5th,
I hadn’t read that article (but I have now) it’s scary and total BS that the presumption of innocence is suspended wrt mere allegations. I certainly can’t accuse someone of stealing my car and have them arrested on just my word. It’s so absurd to be almost farcical. But I still don’t see any significant amount of men withdrawing from the sexual marketplace due to false rape claims. I wish they would, it would increase my chances. The whole MGTOW community never appealed to me. Maybe when I’m in my 60′s and my libido is exhausted, but I’ve a way to go till then.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 18:30

It’s so absurd to be almost farcical.

But yet, it exists in the United States of America.

The whole MGTOW community never appealed to me.

MGTOW is no one’s first choice. Some default there out of frustration or laziness. Now, another group will join them – those out of fear of a false rape charge.

I am not advocating it either, but I AM advocating filming your sex acts. That may deter her from making the charge, plus it will force all women to bear the costs of the bad behavior of some women.

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Welmer November 8, 2009 at 18:37

Kinda wish I was 10 years younger, because I think the next 10-20 years are going to be stressful…what Anthony Burgess called the “Interphase.”

-Jack

We’ve got a big job ahead of us. The younger guys will need some direction, and that’s really our job to provide them with that. So I think we have our work cut out for us. In a way, I’m glad I’m the age I am (same as you, Jack), because we can make a lot of decisions and will call the shots for a while.

Think Master and Commander. I’ve always had a sense of duty to the boys, and now is our time to fulfill it.

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jfr November 8, 2009 at 18:39

Welmer,
I do not think you are pessimistic at all. I think your hope that men will be back in the driver’s seat by default is optimistic. I shudder to think of the alternative.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 18:53

Feminism is currently in the process of peaking, and will collapse by 2020 (see my Four Horseman case elsewhere).

The only question is, can America shake off feminism, or does it take America down with it.

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Anakin Niceguy November 8, 2009 at 18:59

MGTOW is no one’s first choice. Some default there out of frustration or laziness. Now, another group will join them – those out of fear of a false rape charge.

I think you are referring to Ghosting, as MGTOW is not about avoiding women, per se. “Game” is nobody’s first choice either. What is called “laziness” is often the path of least resistance, and human being tend to take it a lot. Men do a cost-benefit analysis and some of them don’t think the rewards of wooing modern women is worth the effort.

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Bob Smith November 8, 2009 at 19:11

many men who would otherwise have been productive breadwinners are pushed to the margins of society, barely able to support themselves, let alone a family

Why should women care, when they can use the tax system to steal from from men en masse? That makes the individual man’s financial capacity irrelevant, and as we all know women are far more gung-ho for Communism that men are (even if those women can’t put that name to their desires).

Combine government benefits with the US adopting (I’m sure it won’t be long, feminists here are pushing that sort of thing) the new UK rule that girlfriends and lovers have just as much a claim on a man’s assets as a wife does and men will have become the perfect slave class.

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Elusive Wapiti November 8, 2009 at 19:18

I’m kinda with Omega on this one…the social services that support the fembot lifestyle will be among the last benefit to go. As long as the Chinese buy our worthless debt, our government will continue to stumble along.

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Welmer November 8, 2009 at 19:23

As long as the Chinese buy our worthless debt, our government will continue to stumble along.

-EW

There’s already a big movement in China to begin spending Chinese money on Chinese infrastructure and enterprise. It’s overwhelming, and gaining ground every day. I don’t think the Chinese bankers can resist it for much longer — Chinese are already pissed off about their money subsidizing American waste.

Americans can’t resist Chinese politics for long as the returns from our bonds diminish. Americans, for their part, won;t want to pay the Chinese back, so inflation will be the easy solution. There’s already too much pressure on both sides of the Pacific for the current balance to hold.

For now, buy Yuan.

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Deborah November 8, 2009 at 19:25

To every era there is a counter era.

From Oliver Cromwell’s Puritanical backlish against the Renaissance in England to the Regan era that followed the free love sixties – there is a backlash. Yet with the conservative response that follows a liberal era, one has to hope that the backlash has the right trajectory.

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zed November 8, 2009 at 19:30

As long as the Chinese buy our worthless debt, our government will continue to stumble along.

The balance of the economy can be pretty fragile. I’m thinking of bank runs back in the 1930s when people panicked and once the dominoes started falling there wasn’t much way to stop them.

All eyes are on Kalifornia. If they can’t pull themselves out of the tailspin they are in, a lot of people who are holding on and propping up the economy hoping it gets better will lose their nerve and bail. If the “stimulus” fails and the economy doesn’t recover, a massive loss of nerve could change the entire picture fairly quickly.

I agree that they will hold on to social services as long as they can, but when water, heat, and the portions of government which do bring in revenue start to get threatened, social services will get dumped like a hot rock.

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Elusive Wapiti November 8, 2009 at 19:45

Welmer,

I don’t blame the Chinese for being POed. We’re taxing them by inflating so much.

Still, I have to wonder, who has the biggest problem? Us, in that we owe the Chinese several billion? Or the Chinese in that they lent several billion to us?

I’ve done a lot of reading on how the Chinese government maintains legitimacy by a policy of economic growth through exports. In other words, as long as the peeps are economically well off, the Chinese gummint has nothing to worry about. Once we cease being able to borrow from them only to turn around and buy their stuff, their job growth will tail off, and (if the authors I read are accurate) the Chinese government will have a job keeping a lid on the social unrest that results. You can’t have several million unattached men and not suffer the consequences.

Zed,

I read somewhere some time ago that Michigan has mulled converting some roads from asphalt back to gravel in order to cut costs. With that in mind, and given the constituency for social goodies, that stuff will probably be the last to go.

It does, however, highlight that the “evolution” from patriarchy to feminism leads direct to hunter-gatherer.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 19:49

“Game” is nobody’s first choice either.

Wrong. It IS the first choice of anyone who masters it. That is, unless you think being a PUA is the only manifestation of Game (which it isn’t). Game is essential for ALL interactions with women, of all types.

All eyes are on Kalifornia.

I can tell you that California is finished. Everything they do is based around a goal of raising taxes, rather than cutting spending. Add to that the exodus of whites to NV and AZ, and of Asians to Asia, and the tax base has already passed its peak.

One of the most important industries in America, and certainly in CA, is based on a workforce of whom 50% were born overseas. The quality of life in their home countries is rising even as it is falling in the US, and some of them are moving back to their home countries. When *Americans* like John Nada are talking of expating, why won’t Asians who can simply go to the country they, or at least their parents, were born in?

If the immigrants who prop up Silicon Valley go, California goes. If California goes, so does America.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 19:51

Still, I have to wonder, who has the biggest problem? Us, in that we owe the Chinese several billion? Or the Chinese in that they lent several billion to us?

It is not just a piddling ‘several billion’ but over a trillion.

A compromise will be reached : China will agree to take a $1 trillion loss, while making all sorts of demands on the US to avoid socialism, cut spending while lowering taxes, etc.

So formerly communist China will be the one that saves the US from communism. Imagine saying that sentence 20 years ago (or even 10 years ago).

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Jack Donovan November 8, 2009 at 19:59

Welmer -

Think Master and Commander. I’ve always had a sense of duty to the boys, and now is our time to fulfill it.

Oh I agree. I had an 18 year old and a 20 year old over for a screening of Gran Torino last night. Some of my older friends have asked me why I hang out with them, but to be cliche…”they are the future,” and they’re the future of my own work as well. They’re full of energy and they want to DO something and their evolutions happen so rapidly and even though they have limited influence they ACT so quickly. They’re not damaged or cynical yet.

Plus, I’ll never be a dad, so that’s how I get my mentor fix.

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Hestia November 8, 2009 at 20:03

Splendid article, Welmer.

zed-I agree that they will hold on to social services as long as they can, but when water, heat, and the portions of government which do bring in revenue start to get threatened, social services will get dumped like a hot rock.
One can hope so. I’ve been anxiously watching this economic downturn and hoping this might be the end to the monster that is feminism. The waiting part is frustrating and frightening though. So many people I attended high school with cannot find any decent employment and it doesn’t seem to be getting better. *sigh* Reminds me of my childhood in Detroit!

EW-I read somewhere some time ago that Michigan has mulled converting some roads from asphalt back to gravel in order to cut costs. With that in mind, and given the constituency for social goodies, that stuff will probably be the last to go.
When my parents moved my family out of the Detroit area ten years ago, some of the roads in our township (We lived just a few city blocks from the city limits of Detroit.) were already gravel due to budget issues. Other projects were going untouched and other needs unaddressed as well. Since we left, most of the schools in the districts have closed and certain portions of the township were absorbed by other local governments. The decay of an area is a slow, painful process and one that doesn’t seem to allow for much common sense on the part of those who should be cutting programs, etc.

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Welmer November 8, 2009 at 20:06

I don’t blame the Chinese for being POed. We’re taxing them by inflating so much.

Still, I have to wonder, who has the biggest problem? Us, in that we owe the Chinese several billion? Or the Chinese in that they lent several billion to us?

I’ve done a lot of reading on how the Chinese government maintains legitimacy by a policy of economic growth through exports. In other words, as long as the peeps are economically well off, the Chinese gummint has nothing to worry about. Once we cease being able to borrow from them only to turn around and buy their stuff, their job growth will tail off, and (if the authors I read are accurate) the Chinese government will have a job keeping a lid on the social unrest that results. You can’t have several million unattached men and not suffer the consequences.

-EW

The Chinese aren’t just angry at us; they’re angry at their own government for wasting money on US investments. Part of China’s problem is these ridiculous “Five Year Plan” schemes. You can’t continue to do that when the economy is in a constant state of flux, but that’s how they continue to operate. They bought the American spiel hook line and sinker after our victory over the USSR, but now we’re starting to look a bit like the Soviets did toward the end there. I’m not sure that the Chinese have a coherent policy as to how to handle this.

Chinese have always had a lot of unattached men, and they’ve traditionally handled it through huge wars or public works campaigns (e.g. Great Wall). Social unrest is already a big problem there, and has been for some time. When I lived there all you had to do to see riots was drive 20k outside of Beijing in the summertime and wait a week or so. I heard some funny farmers-with-pitchforks riot stories from some of my Western friends who were working in joint ventures out in the countryside. Guess it wouldn’t have been so funny if we were Chinese, though…

As for the growth by exports thing, you have to keep in mind that Americans were and are making a lot of money through value-added contributions. Apple manufactures computers in China, for example, but do you think the Chinese are hauling in most of Apple’s profits? Hehe, no way in hell Steve Jobs would allow that.

What will really nail China will be the collapse of our own growth, which is why they weren’t so enthusiastic about Obama. In fact, most Chinese were pretty nervous about the idea of an Obama presidency, believe it or not. If American companies fail, their partnership with us will evaporate, and all they’ll be left with is the much more protectionist Europeans who aren’t into wide-scale cooperation so much as strictly regulated conditional partnerships like Siemens has (which has been there for 100 years, but has never been that big — I used to live right next to its headquarters). China is hitched to our wagon, and they will pay for it.

Too bad — I like the Chinese (despite their annoying reactionary recalcitrance, they are good people) and would not be happy to see them go through another cataclysm just as they are starting to achieve a better standard of living.

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finsalscollons November 8, 2009 at 20:20

Seriously? No women under a 7? If it’s got a pussy and a smile, someone will fuck it.

Of course, but most women don’t want just to be fucked. They want marriage, they want a family and this would be harder and harder.

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adan flores November 8, 2009 at 20:32

Very erudite piece-and right on target, Jack. For reasons well known to you and readers of my work in other forums, I’m proudest of my mentor status among young men from the early 70′s on. Thus does manhood square when Nature, the original feminazi, ablates a guy from jump street.

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fedrz November 8, 2009 at 20:34

The thing what I find bothersome about the position that China is in, is that well, they are still a Communist country, and they are still following a road to international socialism.

The way that the Soviets played with the West throughout their existence was a system of “zig zag.” That is how you “play chess” on the global chess board. The West never gets it, because we are playing by different rules – we are playing checkers – it just doesn’t make sense to us what they are doing. We think in a straight line – if you want to go from A to B, you go in the shortest possible direction. Marxist ideology follows a “zig zag”… it kinda thinks like a woman – except that this ideology actually has purpose and direction. Think of how a politician or a speaker might zig zag through crowded room, shaking hands hear, stopping to talk there, walking over to make sure he acknowledge that important fella over there – as he slowly, but purposefully, makes his way to the podium.

This is what the Soviets used to do – they would “push hard to the left” with massive radical social change. Of course, they were not stupid either. They knew when you screw with things too much, you have to back off, and shore up your gains. In fact, they allow for a “backlash” to the right, which consolidates the radical changes to the left they have previously made. They appease their opponent… 3 steps to the left, 2 steps to the right, 3 steps to the left, 2 steps to the right…They do this both within their own populations, and they also do it on the global stage.

So, for example, they push a radical situation, such as the Cuban Missile Crisis, which is hugely a radical move… the whole world is on edge… but in the aftermath, the years afterwards, the West is much more agreable to work with them to keep things from going so far again – we encourage trade with them, we share technology with them – we go through periods of “Detente” or “Glasnost” or “Perestroika”, and in between the periods of “backlash to the right” were radical moves to the left.

If China is following the Marxist Dialectic, I can see that they might be following along the same type of idea as the Soviets used to.

They go through periods of radical change to the left – it can last decades. They brainwash the population – like they did in the Cultural Revolution. Of course, this monkeying with people, and radical socialism, makes them poorer as a nation, but moves them ideologically closer to their Marxist Utopian goals. It also pisses off the rest of the world.

Then, when they are poor, tensions within their own populations as well as international relations are extremely strained, well, then they relax and move back to the right. They allow small amounts of Capitalism within their populations, and the people are happy to not be starving, and perhaps get a few shiny trinkets on top of it all.

The West/Internationl begins to co-operate with them in economic terms, to shore up relations with them – they give them free technology, they inject their capital, they try to “win them over”, and they use this injection of capital and wealth not only to appease their own people, but also to build their infrastructure and to build up, or modernize, their militaries. When that has been sufficiently done, another several years, perhaps decades, of radical movement to the left will again be initiated.

Marxist ideology doesn’t give a shit about becoming “the wealthiest.”

They don’t think like us. We think in terms of competition. They think in terms of becoming the only competitor that exists.

“It would be the greatest mistake, certainly, to think that concessions mean peace. Nothing of the kind. Concessions are nothing but a new form of war.” — V.I. Lenin

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fedrz November 8, 2009 at 20:40

Hoy yoy yoy! The spelling! My eyes! My Eyes!

I wish there was an edit feature for these comments

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 20:53

I don’t consider China to be a Communist country. They have a corporate tax rate lower than the US, a 0% capital gains tax rate, and many Western MNCs have huge divisions there – presumably meaning China is a favorable place to conduct commerce. China has a stock market, which the USSR never had.

China can more accurately be described as a ‘Right Wing Dictatorship’.

China is currently further from the USSR model than the US under Obama is.

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Elusive Wapiti November 8, 2009 at 21:14

Not to derail this thread into a discussion about China (any more than I already have), but what I find amusing in all this is the left-wing meat-gazing that goes on in the West about how the Chinese seem to have mastered the art of the totalitarian capitalist model. I think they fantasize about converting the West…with them (the left-wingers) in charge, of course.

We’re on our way down. The ChiComs know it. We do too, if pressed to acknowledge it. Their strategy seems to me to be one of letting us sink on our own while they ascend once again to the throne of world pre-eminence that they once had.

5H,

Viewed on the proper political spectrum that places absolute totalitarianism on the Left and anarchy on the right, the Chinese aren’t a right-wing dictatorship. They are a left-wing dictatorship.

I personally welcome a drift from fascism to straight-up collectivism in the USA. Not only is it more honest, it just hastens the demise.

Sorry Welmer for the thread hijack.

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The Fifth Horseman November 8, 2009 at 21:19

Then what about their commerce-friendly climate and 0% capital gains tax?

If only anarchy is right, then the US was never right-wing either.

If both the USSR and modern China can be considered left-wing dictatorships, that category is too broad, given the vast differences between the two in regards to commerce, globalization of the economy, and taxation.

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Fiercely Independent John Nada November 8, 2009 at 21:45

@5th Horseman:

I can tell you that California is finished. Everything they do is based around a goal of raising taxes, rather than cutting spending. Add to that the exodus of whites to NV and AZ, and of Asians to Asia, and the tax base has already passed its peak.

One of the most important industries in America, and certainly in CA, is based on a workforce of whom 50% were born overseas. The quality of life in their home countries is rising even as it is falling in the US, and some of them are moving back to their home countries. When *Americans* like John Nada are talking of expating, why won’t Asians who can simply go to the country they, or at least their parents, were born in?

If the immigrants who prop up Silicon Valley go, California goes. If California goes, so does America.

***
I concur 100% and for the record I am NOT a doom ‘n gloomer. On the contrary, I’m a very positive person but I’m also pragmatic.

That being said, I was born and raised in Kalifornia. I graduated from the University System and worked for the State as an Environmental Analyst. I remember clearly the problems we had back then under Gray Davis with the energy crisis in ’01 and the budget crisis around ’03. That 1-2 punch got him recalled and led to the special election giving rise to the Governator.

Saw the writing on the wall and wasted no time after that. I hauled ass and moved to Las Vegas where I found greener pastures as a Sports Gaming exec. If I were to ever live stateside again, one things for certain: you couldn’t PAY me to live in Kalifornia.

Oh and greetings from sunny South America. I left the states permanently almost 2 years ago. ;)

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Welmer November 8, 2009 at 21:49

Sorry Welmer for the thread hijack.

-EW

Oh no worries. You know I like discussing those inscrutable Chinese.
;)

I am actually an open Sinophile and Francophile. If that makes me un-American, so be it.

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Sean_MacCloud November 8, 2009 at 21:52

The anglo west is the disease here –capitalism, democracy, freedom, etc jibba jabba incl that jebus nonsense. Not China; not Russia (even when they had big mean scary tanks); not the “negro”.

Simplistic _instinctual male conformist_ chauvinism/patriotism believes other wise.

As I said. males are their own worst enemy.

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Anakin Niceguy November 8, 2009 at 21:57

“Game” is nobody’s first choice either.

Wrong. It IS the first choice of anyone who masters it. That is, unless you think being a PUA is the only manifestation of Game (which it isn’t). Game is essential for ALL interactions with women, of all types.

It depends on how you are defining game. Men don’t automatically default to something they have make the effort to learn–unless there is some necessity imposed upon them. I daresay most successfully married have never even heard of “Game” as it is often understood and practiced (including studied approaches in DHVing and other tactics). The men often derided as “beta,” who have expatted and have become happily married, certainly have not had the need to learn seduction techniques.

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Welmer November 8, 2009 at 22:04

Hoy yoy yoy! The spelling! My eyes! My Eyes!

I wish there was an edit feature for these comments

-fedrz

There’s a preview button on the upper right corner of the text box. Spell check should be automatic, indicated by a dotted red line under misspelled words.

I’d install the edit feature, but I’m not sure it’s compliant with the latest version of WordPress, and it uses a lot of Ajax requests that tend to slow things down more than I’m comfortable with.

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Elusive Wapiti November 8, 2009 at 22:37

5H,

The left-right taxonomy I presented is useful to distinguish the role of government in peoples’ lives. Radical right-ness is complete and total Hobbesian state of nature. Radical leftiness is complete state control.

The PRC and the USSR do not lay on the same spot on the spectrum. But they are close, as close as the Rep and Dem parties are to each other.

Moreover, I fail to see how commerce, taxation policy, and globalization are inherently left or right, except how they relate to the role of government.

How do you characterize left and right?

Welmer,

You could call me a Nipponophile with a budding interest in Sinic issues. But no Franco-love from here, unless it has to do with their supplication to my German forebears. You know, building the Arc du Triomphe and planting trees along the Champs d’Elysee so the Germans can march in the shade and all that.

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Welmer November 8, 2009 at 23:31

You could call me a Nipponophile with a budding interest in Sinic issues. But no Franco-love from here, unless it has to do with their supplication to my German forebears. You know, building the Arc du Triomphe and planting trees along the Champs d’Elysee so the Germans can march in the shade and all that.

-EW

I lived in France for a while as a boy. The French really know how to live the good life. That’s why they live longer — they actually enjoy being alive!

The Chinese are a lot like the French in many ways. Both have a kind of benevolently patriarchal society, and their men have it infinitely better than we do here in America — relatively speaking in the case of China.

My mom’s the Germanophile in the family. When I was a kid, our pet German shepherds always had proper German names.

As for the Japanese, well, I never quite got them. Unlike the Chinese, they aren’t all that open to outsiders. Insular would be the word, I suppose.

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Connie November 9, 2009 at 02:01

Jack Donovan,

I’m glad the young men you mentor are not damaged or cynical yet. Also glad I saw your post — I needed to read something encourging.

I found out today about a book written by Michael Kimmel titled Guyland published last year. Kimmel is a professor and feminist. An article about him at feministing.com says he interviewed boys and young men and used “their words and his expertise to draw a frightening picture of young American manhood today.”

Haven’t read the book, and don’t intend to, so I don’t know what he thinks is frightening about young American men. The book’s website says most of his interviewees were white and middle class, so maybe that’s what he finds scary. But what I found far more frightening is his “solution” to whatever problem he thinks America’s young men are — feminism.

IMO, somebody needs to tell him you don’t put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

If you don’t mind my asking…do you find the young men you mentor to be frightening? And if there is a problem with them, do you have any thoughts on approaches to a genuine solution?

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The Fifth Horseman November 9, 2009 at 02:16

How do you characterize left and right?

Free-market, low tax, entrepreneurial vs. state-controlled, socialist.

Then again, this could be an example of how capitalist vs. communist is different than right vs. left.

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Paul November 9, 2009 at 02:39

I often find it difficult to separate what I want to happen from what I think will happen. I am inclined to turn my hopes into predictions. I guess this is needed in order to keep spirits up. But for sure what Welmer has said does has force behind it. There really are indicators that show the direction.

Just now I checked on the price of gold. It had gone up by $11 since last week. In the past 12 months it has gone up from just over $700 an ounce to over $1100 an ounce. Now such a steady rise, which has had its dips, is certainly a trend. It can not just be ignored as a sort of irrelevance. Now this statistic is not conclusive but it does indicate that the pressure on the dollar is downwards. It is not a sign of a healthy currency.

There are many other factors which are coming into play. But the point is will the pig eat its own entrails as Welmer says or will we just become ever more oppressed and powerless?

My honest guess is the latter. Look they would put Ritalin in the water just to subdue us. There is hope but not for us. People like the Taliban might keep their own freedom in the mountains of the Tora Bora. But for us I think the defeat has already happened and has been absolute.

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Krauser November 9, 2009 at 02:52

BTW, those of you into the economic side of the Wests decline would do good to read Mish’s blog:

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com

He’s very bearish on China. Basic claim is that despite all the Fed’s printing in the US, China is doing it even more and has far bigger structural problems to overcome and social unrest to dampen. Also, China has been underperforming for 1,000 years so why would it change now? Every socialist experiment ever has collapse and for all the free market trading in China, capital allocation is still done by bureaucrats according to patronage – that always unwinds badly.

Great article, BTW

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Sean_MacCloud November 9, 2009 at 02:56

All this left and right nonsense is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.

How can people still be this dense?!

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Sean_MacCloud November 9, 2009 at 02:58

Capitalism is THE BACKBONE OF FEMINISM Duh! And I don’t care what your father or granpap told you.

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Harry November 9, 2009 at 03:04

@Sean

I don’t think it really matters whether its capitalism or communism.

Those in the governing elite under both ideologies will benefit from feminism.

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Sean_MacCloud November 9, 2009 at 03:13

The so called communist societies are/were way better for men (further to the “right”) than the anglo west; the anglo west is the ONLY place marxism still exists (the jew is not blameless). The reason is coincidence having to do with _unintended consequences_ that go over most peoples’ cognitive ABILITY to Analise.

Specifically, protestant christianty and individualism(colonial expanse) made the west psychologically vulnerable to a slow motion hijacking. A meme formed that pushed all the right “moral” buttons and then the inherently conformist not very bright male (scot anglo irish) –bred to be serf a long time ago– rallied around it. The phenom is the same way an indian scout rallies around and works for the calvary fort his pa was captured by.

(you dopes)

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Sean_MacCloud November 9, 2009 at 03:26

@Harry
I don’t think it really matters whether its capitalism or communism.

Those in the governing elite under both ideologies will benefit from feminism.

But only one culture did this to the world; only system was uniquely –in all history–vulnerable to this disaster. And it wasn’t the Chinese.

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Harry November 9, 2009 at 03:33

@Sean

“But only one culture did this to the world; only system was uniquely –in all history–vulnerable to this disaster. And it wasn’t the Chinese.”

Not yet, Sean.

But they will take up feminism, if we don’t combat it.

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Paul Elam November 9, 2009 at 03:54

Very thoughtful and well written piece, and largely accurate I suspect. Save for the conclusion.

My respectful dissent is as follows:

You hit most accurately on the future in your reference to Detroit. As we can see there, men in and environment of anarchy and instability don’t form new communities, they turn inward on themselves and each other. They simply erode the community they are in. That has been the legacy of all oppressed classes. And the only thing that has saved the “progress” of civilization itself is that we tend to oppress only a few groups at a time while the majority is allowed to flourish.

Now we are well headed for the tertiary stages of oppressing fully half of the western world, and the half that was responsible for 98% of achievements that gave stability to the culture to begin with. This is not a scenario of hopeful possibilities or opportunities, but a nightmarish prescription that portends a number of really bad scenarios.

It may leave men in the drivers seat, but quite possibly like characters in a Mad Max sequel.

Rethinking our historical ties with women is an unavoidable reality. But if that were to translate into the severing of interdependence, the outcome will not be anything but catastrophic. It isn’t misandry to proffer that men, particularly young ones, are not the most civil or productive of creatures while existing only in a sea of competitive masculinity. In fact, it is a gross understatement of reality.

What we can expect from this scenario may well be a thousand years of men cutting each others heads off and warring with each other.

Luckily, and yes I know, also unluckily, men are powerfully driven to pair bond with women. That will always be the biological trump card over separating from them socially. Still, all the very important observations you cited in your piece point to unavoidable upheaval in the future. That upheaval may result in what has needed to happen for the last forty years– a complete renegotiation of the social contract we have with women. Perhaps renegotiation is the wrong word since we have never really negotiated with women at all. But there must be a new accord. And one that allows for some form of mutual dependence.

Otherwise I really do think we can kiss it all good-bye.

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Lethargio November 9, 2009 at 06:47

Great vision. I get inspired by this article so much even though the reasons are so sad as to how we got here.

I see Western societies showing intense and evident forms of atomised individualism and the nature of this becoming more and more ruthless, selfish, less negotiable. This is reflected in people who talk more about having rights rather than obligations, duties and respect. I don’t see societies displaying progress, not between humans anyway, it seems like we’re going backwards. I think men feel there is a basic humanity that has been taken away, men are falling into an expendable category on a societal level and being subjected to circumstances beyond their control. Hence I agree with the backlash withdrawal from men of some form. The ‘marriage drought’ has been around for a while, now it’s heading into the sex drought, chivalry drought and so on, to the point where women will experience the same ‘expendable’ climate men are suffering.

Men may counteract using ‘Game’ but this is not void of risks. Not about getting a false rape charge, it’s also about having to deal with women’s ‘franticness’ (I’ve met a few women like this, damn, always ‘busy’ and you feel like you’re intruding, and wup! don’t say anything now, that’s her right, she’s ‘finding herself’ y’know). It’s a growing neurosis.

It doesn’t have to be about sex. If you step towards many a woman’s inflexible and multiplying ambitions nowadays, you will get burned.

Most men want to share, care, do things, explore life together but now it’s like having to manouevre, tip-toe round somebody elses whims. Men are tired of women’s erratic behaviour, which only makes women blow hot and cold more often, which pushes and pulls men to the point of insanity.

People’s, and notably women’s base instinct and drive has been nurtured into one of grab/get what you can, which has led to more selfish societies. The family unit is broken, marriage is no longer an ideal, less guidance of children, the perception that crime is on the rise is rocketing (I believe it is but statistics claim otherwise). Criminals now have an even better reason for their behaviour just by looking at how politicians line their pockets. Things can really feel anarchic or apocalyptic bound.

To me it’s like a fist slamming down on a dusty table, it’s like we’re all the particles floating around and who knows how we’ll settle. If you take on one side women and men on the other, I can see men coming out of this shake-up better. Men have always been taught to live in the eyes of women. Women are now being taught not to live in the eyes of men. All the cultural messages, signals and laws place men in a lower strata mockery and women in an individualised, fragmented style of ascendency. If anything, men’s lives have become more simplified and reduced for the sake of women’s arguments becoming more complicated (feminists created an absolute, a negative and reductionist imagery of men while they have fragmented themselves, their societies and children further).

Yet I’ve always thought men have led a more (unselfishly) unilateral, more logical, more simpler existence although having had to deal with the variables of most women. In the gender-stereotypical roles, it’s quite true. Counting up the hours in a day/week and looking at working lives, well then simply put – ‘men just work’. But we never got the just praise for this and it is also we who took on women working too, having to adapt or else. I don’t think the acceptance shown by many men of women coming into the workplace was all reluctant. But the demands kept coming.

I suppose most women resent men’s rhythms anyway but it’s kinda all we are brought up to know. It was all for you women anyway…

Trying to wonder, to envisage what could come from this messy transition. I believe in men ‘building communities’ because that’s what men do, whether it be physically or administratively. Men will create awareness days, advice shops and mags small-scale but it will not all be about ‘suffering awareness’ but also about celebrating mens abilities, championing. Also many would say this is a ‘problem’ and usually problems are tackled with the ‘education’ pill. I wouldn’t be surprised seeing business communities building all-male academies (schools). Academies have popped up round my way but they’re mixed and religiously funded.

I think a lot of guys would heave a huge sigh of relief walking into an all-male school, all male teachers. But men do have to be careful in their remedial responses and not to make the same mistakes feminist made, that of out and out polarisation.

Thinking caps on, awesome article this.

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Jack Donovan November 9, 2009 at 06:49

Connie, I suspect that Micheal Kimmel has found young men frightening his whole life. If you look at a video of him speaking, he’s extremely effeminate, and he chose early on to go to Vassar–formerly an all girl’s college. That tells me that he’s a classic omega who feels threatened, undermined and undervalued by other men, so he ran to women, found their company more affirming, and created a position for himself in the world where he has some sort of authority over the kinds of men who rejected him. It’s “revenge of the nerd.”

This is the exact pattern that effeminate gays follow, so it’s not like Kimmel is special. There’s a book called The End of Gay Culture where the author suggests the that gays have historically used culture to make themselves feel important in response to rejection by rougher, tougher guys. Middle and lower class gays flee country life for the city where they can become part of high culture and look down on stupid, coarse, uncultured jocks and country boys who kicked sand in their faces.

He’s considered and “expert” on men, but he’s really an expert on pathologizing manhood and helping men adjust to female rule. He’s objective about men in the same way Catholic priests are objective about heathens.

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jfr November 9, 2009 at 06:54

@ Paul
Fluoride has been in the water supply for years to subdue the population.

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Puma November 9, 2009 at 08:49

There is great hope in the Marriage Strike. That is the first step. Remove current entanglements. Once a majority of men are playing it single, then we will be in a much stronger position to negotiate the next form of the male-female social contract.

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fschmidt November 9, 2009 at 09:14

There is no guarantee that men will create new communities. Much more likely is simply the collapse of civilization. If you look at those places that were successful empires in the past, most are now basket cases. These places never recovered. The exceptions are those empires that formed strong subcultures while the empire still existed, the best example being Christianity in Rome. And when I read websites like The Spearhead, I lose hope because all this site promotes is “game”, a sure recipe for cultural collapse. This site never promotes the idea of men creating new communities. As long as the men’s movement is dominated by the type of thinking found on The Spearhead, there is no hope for the future.

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Firepower November 9, 2009 at 09:53

While [F]irepower
doesn’t adhere to [f]uehrerschmidt’s view that Game will open the 7th Seal of the Anti-Christ’s playpen

he does believe that ‘feminism consuming itself’ is as likely as America collapsing after Roosevelt croaked, per Hitler’s wetdream.

[to keep the germanic comparison going...of course.]

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Jabherwochie November 9, 2009 at 10:18

” Radical right-ness is complete and total Hobbesian state of nature. Radical leftiness is complete state control. ”

People, the masses, can still control the state with effort and wisdom. That is the point of Democracy. No one can control a Hobbesian state of nature (for long at least).

” The Fifth Horseman November 9, 2009 at 2:16 am
How do you characterize left and right?

Free-market, low tax, entrepreneurial vs. state-controlled, socialist.

Then again, this could be an example of how capitalist vs. communist is different than right vs. left.”

I don’t see how the right is “free-market, low tax, (and) entrepreneurial” in more than just words. They are about consolidating power for themselves, and then wielding that power to further secure their interests. They want a free-market, because they want free-reign to exploit workers. They want low taxes, because a robust government is antithema to their control. They are no more entrepreneurial than anyone else with common sense, yet they act in ways that actively stifles competition.

The right is the establishment. They look after their own interests. Nothing wrong with that. That generally means the status-quo for them, as they are already economic winners. That does not mean the status quo is stagnant, because the status-quo of captialism is inherently growth and evolution, but they want to ensure that growth and evolution primarily benefits them in the end, so they want that growth and evolution slow and controlled, and preferably in their hands.

The left represents the masses. They look after their own interests, but being the ignorant masses, have a broader range of concerns, many stupid (ie Feminism). Nothing wrong with that. They just want progress for the majority of whoever can get it. That does not mean progress is what they always get, as good intentions often have horrible repercusions. (Welfare for example) That does not mean wonderful advances don’t ever come from their ideas of progress either. The problem, like with Feminists, is when they try to force progress on people, by forcing equality of outcomes, not equality of oppurtunity. Instead of teaching a man in need to fish, they would rather have a complex bureaucracy that doles fish out to men in need. Being a party of many diverse interests groups with many conflicting interests, the Democratic party has an easier chance of being self correcting however.

Both sides suck. I like balance. I like the eternal tug of war between the two sides.

If Capitalism (ie. Republicanism) is “survival of the fittest”, a Hobbsein state of nature were the elite reap the bulk of its rewards, and Democracy (ie. Democrats) is “we are all equal, one man one vote”, state controlled socialism, with the state controlled by a Democratic process (ie the ignorant masses), then I believe you need the two both existing as a mutual check and balance. It should never be about which one is right and which one is wrong, or about which one is more right and which one is more wrong, but rather, which one in our current situation should we swing towards, factoring in all relevent data. Which one, considering our current state, do we need more of right now. I think that should be the frame of the discussion.

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cadbad November 9, 2009 at 10:46
lurker November 9, 2009 at 10:51

Saw the perfect example of this last night.

Went to a bar cause I couldn’t sleep. Saw this beta male/breadwinner dude hitting on a plain jane chick. From what I overheard of their conversation (I was next to him at the bar), his job earned him a good living—high 5 figures. He was dressed conservatively, but neatly, in decent but unostenatious fashion. He was decent looking, not drunk, and being nice to the girl.

She was a 5-6, with a little chunk on her, but nothing to make you think she was fat—just plump. She giggled a bit at him. They seemed headed towards a nice time at her place.

All of a sudden, a tall, gaudily dressed black guy walked in. He sat down, told her he had no job, that his kid was bugging him, and that he was drunk as a skunk. She completely ignored Nice Beta Male for Worthless Fucker for the rest of the night, and went home with him.

That beta went home and probably got very bitter. Hell, I got bitter at such a trashy display. And that 5 probably will wonder someday where all the nice guys are.

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cadbad November 9, 2009 at 11:00

lurker, appearances can be deceiving, “plain jane” could be “insane jane”. You never know maybe she wanted a fix or something…

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Reinholt November 9, 2009 at 11:15

As a general rule of thumb, I refuse to fuck/date/speak with more than is absolutely necessary any woman I meet at a bar.

Many men could save themselves a lot of trouble if they follow that simple rule. Don’t race to the bottom.

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Sean_MacCloud November 9, 2009 at 11:22

fschmidt November 9, 2009 at 9:14 am

There is no guarantee that men will create new communities. Much more likely is simply the collapse of civilization. If you look at those places that were successful empires in the past, most are now basket cases. These places never recovered. The exceptions are those empires that formed strong subcultures while the empire still existed, the best example being Christianity in Rome. And when I read websites like The Spearhead, I lose hope because all this site promotes is “game”, a sure recipe for cultural collapse. This site never promotes the idea of men creating new communities. As long as the men’s movement is dominated by the type of thinking found on The Spearhead, there is no hope for the future.

Actually there are elements here that are enlightened.

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dragnet November 9, 2009 at 12:21

@lurker

“All of a sudden, a tall, gaudily dressed black guy walked in.”

Why was his blackness relevant?

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 12:25

Because black guys are given especially generous passes to act like douches by liberal fags like you.

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dragnet November 9, 2009 at 12:42

“Because black guys are given especially generous passes to act like douches by liberal fags like you.”

First of all, I’m black. Yes, I’m mostly liberal. And no, I’m not gay.

Hey Welmer, I hope you’re taking a good, hard look at the kind and quality of commenters you’re attracting to this site. This simple truth is that while this site is often a place of analysis and thoughtfulness, it is just as often a place of venom, stupidity and (not so) thinly veiled hate. This serves no one well.

Requiring people to register their user names would be a good idea. That way, this kind of counterproductive foolishness could be curtailed.

Just my $0.02.

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ray November 9, 2009 at 12:55

the ouroboros that illustrates this post derives mainly from medieval alchemy, and earlier gnostic sects, thence back to the hermetic magick of ancient egypt etc

the mass social engineering of the modern mass-communication west arose directly from the “philosophical” aspect of alchemy, as modern chemistry arose from the practical or material aspect

the transgenerational “social engineers” who implemented feminism and the western matriarchies are the direct descendants of medieval alchemy which, as jung so exhausively shows, is the basis of modern (19th and 20th century) collective psychological conditioning and engineering

these pre-chemists and pre-psyop (intelligence) groups, operating as alchemists in the middle-and-late-middle ages, were immersed in the “operation” of combining the primal dualistic elements of the universe — the human female and male being the “primordial carriers” (the summa example) of the opposites we encounter throughout the universe

the chaos dragon (the collective feminine as Jormungandr, Tiamat etc in global myth) is a self-contained, CLOSED unit — puts the big O in Ovum, you might say

as with sperm, the uroboric ovum is a closed system chiefly designed to repel sperm, ie male influence, whether physically in the individual or psychosocially in the culture or planet

the uroboros is an apt symbol for this world, MA-teria, and especially for the single-unit, closed system of human females — their tendency to act in concert and selfish unity, especially relative to the natures and ways of men

using the uroboros to depict the self-consumption of woman/the west — turning the symbol against itself — is therefore a wonderful stroke of heresy against Womanchurch/Womanplanet

sort of . . . if you cant kill the dragon (and for the moment, we cant), then at least make it eat its own shit — force consciousness upon it, rub its face in its hypocrisy, selfishness, and evil — and let it burn out from self-absorption and self-consumption

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Harry November 9, 2009 at 12:57

@Dragnet

I hazard a guess that Lurker thought that you were being irritatingly oversensitive.

If so, I agree with him.

@Lurker

A bit too rude, and unnecessary.

Shame on the pair of you.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 12:58

Note to commenters:

Avoid pettiness over race. I don’t want to have to deal with racial/ethnic flame wars here.

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 13:09

“First of all, I’m black. Yes, I’m mostly liberal. And no, I’m not gay.

Hey Welmer, I hope you’re taking a good, hard look at the kind and quality of commenters you’re attracting to this site. This simple truth is that while this site is often a place of analysis and thoughtfulness, it is just as often a place of venom, stupidity and (not so) thinly veiled hate. This serves no one well.

Requiring people to register their user names would be a good idea. That way, this kind of counterproductive foolishness could be curtailed.

Just my $0.02.”

—thanks for saying something no one cares about.

And next, you’ll be complaining that so-and-so’s reaction to Nobama is all about his race.

Hypocritical bitch. Now go start a race blog and blame it all on whitey.

Harry, douches on web boards who bring up the “why is it important that he was black” card need to be smacked down. PC liberal bitches.

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Harry November 9, 2009 at 13:11

@Welmer

How come Puma gets a great-looking Puma-like icon next to his posts whereas the magnificent I only gets some nondescript flaky green squary thing next to my pontifications?

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 13:14

ps dragnet: all liberals are fags, even if straight. You whiny little bitches make me sick.

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Gx1080 November 9, 2009 at 13:16

The “Women Nation” will fall, either for bankrupt or the Muslims. There’s 2 lifesavers: Private, closed communities (mostly Religious) or going Ronin.

@dragnet

Any rational, working citizen of a country will hate Afirmative Action, others forms of welfare and their beneficiaries with every fiber of his being. Mostly, it comes for having to give money to guys that didn’t work as hard as said citizens. An string of obscenities isn’t the best way to handle it, but the hate is perfectly justified.

There’s also the fact that people don’t grow and become productive when they can suck the Goverment’s tits for cash. I linked a researcher of that fact before (Read his conclusions and the evidence of that):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

Finally, if you can’t tolerate being called a douche and a fag, get off the Internet.

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Gx1080 November 9, 2009 at 13:17

@Harry

He has his own WordPress account.

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dragnet November 9, 2009 at 13:33

Good grief, how did we get from a black guy hooking up with a moderately unattractive woman, to affirmative action programs and Thomas Sowell?? My problem isn’t the name-calling or shit like that, it’s just that it doesn’t really contribute anything constructive to debate that’s taking place here. End of story.

And I don’t think it’s ‘oversensitive’ to question why the guy’s blackness was important to lurker. The question is: If the guy had been the same loser, only white, would lurker still have been as pissed? I certainly hope so, although I can’t be sure because I don’t know actually know lurker. Hence the question.

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 13:40

poor draggynet, he’s going to cry into his little Bill Clinton poster tonight:

“And I don’t think it’s ‘oversensitive’ to question why the guy’s blackness was important to lurker.”
—right. black guys are never oversensitive to race.

“If the guy had been the same loser, only white, would lurker still have been as pissed?”
—Yes. But if he had been white or Asian, he would not have felt so emboldened to act like such a douche. It is onyl fags like you who enable it.

“My problem isn’t the name-calling or shit like that, it’s just that it doesn’t really contribute anything constructive to debate that’s taking place here. ”
—faggot concern trolls like you are worthless.

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dragnet November 9, 2009 at 13:47

“Yes. But if he had been white or Asian, he would not have felt so emboldened to act like such a douche. It is onyl fags like you who enable it.”

Are you fucking kidding me? Are we seriously stating that no white guy has ever cockblocked and stolen a chick away from another guy at a bar? Is that where we’re headed—total abandonment of any pretense of factual accuracy??

““And I don’t think it’s ‘oversensitive’ to question why the guy’s blackness was important to lurker.”
—right. black guys are never oversensitive to race.”

Dude, you are arguing with a straw man, and the straw man is beating the living shit out of you. Stop trying to shoot down arguments I didn’t make.

Honestly, debating with you is like debate a woman, lurker: you’re way too emotional, completely irrational, and spinning new “facts” out of thin air to support an obviously bunk worldview.

Kill yourself already.

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Gx1080 November 9, 2009 at 13:55

Damn, I need to stop the tendence of going off the tangent.

@dragnet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETO3-MxMe2Q

Need to say more?

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Arbitrary November 9, 2009 at 14:07

People (just lurker?) beating on dragnet for his questioning the mentioning of race:

You’re being idiots. If you think, as I do, that the mentioning of race in the original comment was basically just an irrelevant detail to paint a more evocative picture of what was going on, you shouldn’t care about dragnet bringing it up…no response is necessary.

dragnet:

Sure, it was irrelevant (apart from any social stereotypes that the girl in question may have been acting upon). If it had been mentioned that the guy was tall, would you expect tall guys to be offended? Stick with fighting the real racial battles…ignore the irrelevancies and they will eventually go away.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 14:12

Well, having lived as a minority (in China), I can say that what might seem irrelevant to some doesn’t seem so to others. I understand where dragnet is coming from, but then again being thin-skinned usually doesn’t help.

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 14:16

faggy draggy:

“Are you fucking kidding me? Are we seriously stating that no white guy has ever cockblocked and stolen a chick away from another guy at a bar? Is that where we’re headed—total abandonment of any pretense of factual accuracy??”

—ah, the classic strawman.

Nope, never said it. Go back up and read it, faggy.

““Dude, you are arguing with a straw man, and the straw man is beating the living shit out of you. Stop trying to shoot down arguments I didn’t make.”
—right. because mentioning race is always a cue for —DUN DUN DUN—RRRAAAACCCCIIISSMMM!

“Honestly, debating with you is like debate a woman, lurker: you’re way too emotional, completely irrational, and spinning new “facts” out of thin air to support an obviously bunk worldview.”
—lmao. And debating with you is ike debating a whiny pussy who keeps claiming racism when there is none, and calling people racist who don’t agree.

“Kill yourself already.”
—faggots first.

Gx1080: bite me. I give an illustrative story, and faggy draggy starts implying racism because I mentioned the guy was black? Please.

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 14:17

faggy draggy is the boy who cries wolf. He probably wonders why people don’t listen to his please about racism when he makes them every 5 minutes.

then again, that sums up the black movement for the last 40 years.

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Arbitrary November 9, 2009 at 14:19

Welmer, I’m Jewish. The sheer number of anti-semitic comments on here dwarfs the ones even vaguely mentioning race by about the same ratio as feminists outnumber MRAs. Learn not to care and you will be much better off.

You fix stereotypes by becoming exceptions to them, not by complaining about them.

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cadbad November 9, 2009 at 14:25

dragnet

“Why was his blackness relevant?”

Don’t play stupid affirmative action is alive and well

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 14:34

Learn not to care and you will be much better off.

-Arbitrary

Yeah, I reacted pretty badly for a while to the Chinese racism. It’s a lot worse than what you’ll see here in the states, and turned me pretty racist for a while, too (probably a typical reaction to interracial conflict). But eventually I stopped being so sensitive, and I’ve found myself with a much better understanding of humans in general now that I can look at these things impersonally. However, it’s good to be circumspect — I wouldn’t walk around an exceptionally violent ghetto at night and I wouldn’t advise a black or Jewish guy go to some of the rowdier taverns in the backwoods (but then again, I probably would do better to avoid those places myself).

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cadbad November 9, 2009 at 14:58

Welmer,

And I would not walk around a Chinese town at night either. There was a harrowing tale about a guy who somehow got on a wrong plane and got stranded deep in China. He almost didn’t survive and had his face spat upon by passerby.

There is a double standard here. How comfortable would a white feel in China, Japan, Africa? Now as the whites become a minority who will you hate?

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 15:08

And I would not walk around a Chinese town at night either. There was a harrowing tale about a guy who somehow got on a wrong plane and got stranded deep in China. He almost didn’t survive and had his face spat upon by passerby.

-cadbad

From what I’ve heard, parts of Sichuan are the worst. They can be quite violently xenophobic there, for some reason. I had some trouble in Gansu province, but never got attacked. My experience with Chinese minorities, such as Uyghurs, Mongols and Tibetans, was uniformly positive.

In the big coastal cities they’re pretty familiar with foreigners by now, so for the most part nobody pays you much attention.

The biggest danger you face as a white guy (outside of war zones), is people who want to rob you. Oh, and the women can be dangerous, too. You could come home with a nasty infection – maybe even the big one – if you get too intimate with them without taking precautions.

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sestamibi November 9, 2009 at 15:45

Arbitrary–

I’m Jewish too, and with the exception of SeanMacCloud, I don’t see anything here that could be remotely contrued as being anti-semitic (and if I did I wouldn’t waste my time here). I think you’re confusing anti-liberal with anti-semitic (a common error).

Welmer–

Thanks for the call out. I’m flattered.

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lurker November 9, 2009 at 15:49

“You could come home with a nasty infection – maybe even the big one…”
—The chinese can get men PREGGOS now????

Those diabolical commie asshats!

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Arbitrary November 9, 2009 at 16:00

sestamibi, look at some of the comments on “It’s a Conspiracy.” I’m not conflating anti-semitic with anti-liberal, many of the conspiracy related comments (on “It’s a Conspiracy” and elsewhere) have specifically claimed that there is some kind of Jew-specific involvement. I have no problem–and nor should anyone else–with people being anti-liberal, or anti-communist, or anti-feminist. These are positions a person takes against an ideology. Racism and anti-semitism are positions a person takes against a group of people for who they are; it’s intellectually sloppy, morally reprehensible, and a bad idea. But you don’t convince people to change their mind by telling them that. You convince people to change their mind by giving them empirical evidence to contradict it.

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Arbitrary November 9, 2009 at 16:18

Looking back it looks like I was being a little unfair…the overwhelming majority of the anti-semitic comments do indeed seem to have been from McCloud, even in the conspiracy threads.

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Jack Donovan November 9, 2009 at 16:54

I honestly think the days of pussy-footing around race/religion are drawing to a close, and that, far from becoming post-racial, people are going to balkanize and start saying what’s on their mind again.

PC tea-party SWPL talk was fine when most white people were wealthy enough to feel guilty about it.

As you see whites become less of a majority and regular guys are out of work, and white guys still aren’t allowed to have the special booster organizations or scholarships or quotas or “encouraged to apply” bullshit that every other racial and “community” group has, things are going to start getting ugly. Insisting that they pretend that nothing is happening, that they pretend race is invisible and that there are no cultural problems they have a right to complain about, and forbidding them to honestly discuss their frustrations is probably just going to make it worse.

I don’t think the commenters here are, as a group, particularly aligned against any other group–except for feminists.

I am not particularly anti-Semitic and I wouldn’t think twice about being friends with a guy who I liked just because he had Jewish blood (actually, one of my newest pals is half Jewish). But I am aware of the fact that many of the offending feminist intellectuals, such as Kimmel and Katz, are Jews who validate certain stereotypes. Those Jews are my enemies. Any Jewsish, black, Mexican, Chinese or whatever men who are not actively working to denegrate and destroy Western civilization or the Men of the West are aces with me.

I am, however, unapologetically sexist.

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chic noir November 9, 2009 at 16:56

Welmer My experience with Chinese minorities, such as Uyghurs, Mongols and Tibetans, was uniformly positive.
*shakes head in agreement*

Because they know how it feels. From what I’ve read, the Uyghurs are to china what the gypsy are to Italy and blks are to America.

Quick question whelmer, which of the two genders was colder to you?

I would imagine the men since they would view you as competition for their women. That could explain the coldness. Also don’t forget how close China came to being a colony and the impact of the Opium War on how the Chinese view foreigners.

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chic noir November 9, 2009 at 17:00

Funny enough, I’ve read a few blogs written by blk Americans who live in Korea, Japan and China and they don’t complain about racism much. For them, the racism they experience in Asia is child’s play.

I guess if you are a WM coming from America or Europe, being in Asia or Africa is your first time experiencing what it’s like to be the other. Don’t discount your being white + having light hair and eyes shaping your experiences.

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Jack Donovan November 9, 2009 at 17:02

At least, they’re going to say what’s on their mind for as long as liberals let them.

http://www.freethehereticaltwo.com/timeline/

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 17:04

But I am aware of the fact that many of the offending feminist intellectuals, such as Kimmel and Katz, are Jews who validate certain stereotypes.

-Jack

Kimmel and Katz are garbage no matter how you look at it. The problem is – and has been for a while – that when you present their bullshit as being “Jewish,” other Jews are naturally going to be disconcerted by that and feel some natural sympathy for them that they don’t deserve.

My best case scenario regarding these two would be a cage match vs. Bill Goldberg.

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Jack Donovan November 9, 2009 at 17:20

Exactly. I’m aware of the fact that they validate some stereotypes that a guy with a Charlie Chaplin mustache would have agreed with…but it is totally counterproductive to make that argument on account of the fact that Jews control the media and I would be blacklisted and banished into The Phantom Zone of public discourse.

Kidding. Kinda.

Actually, it’s totally counterproductive to make that argument because it will sidetrack any discussion and draw attention away from legitimate criticism’s of Katz and Kimmel’s work.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 17:24

Quick question whelmer, which of the two genders was colder to you?

I would imagine the men since they would view you as competition for their women. That could explain the coldness. Also don’t forget how close China came to being a colony and the impact of the Opium War on how the Chinese view foreigners.

-chic noir

Just like here, the men I didn’t know were colder than the women I didn’t know, and the men I did know were warmer than the women I knew. It’s the same everywhere — men are usually loyal and women mercenary.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 17:29

Funny enough, I’ve read a few blogs written by blk Americans who live in Korea, Japan and China and they don’t complain about racism much. For them, the racism they experience in Asia is child’s play.

I guess if you are a WM coming from America or Europe, being in Asia or Africa is your first time experiencing what it’s like to be the other. Don’t discount your being white + having light hair and eyes shaping your experiences.

I can tell you that the American black guys I knew in China were so miserable about how they were treated that they literally beamed with joy at the opportunity to spend some time with white American guys. I did meet one exception, and he was such a prick that I almost kicked his ass, but the politically correct marine sergeant at the embassy broke it up and sent me home.

That guy was the kind of chickenshit who likes to talk smack when he knows he won’t have to throw down.

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cadbad November 9, 2009 at 18:04

“Arbitrary
Looking back it looks like I was being a little unfair…the overwhelming majority of the anti-semitic comments do indeed seem to have been from McCloud, even in the conspiracy threads.”

Having questioned for many years why the hatred, the answer is:

Homosexuality, pedaresty, human sacrifice, murder. You see the laws of Moses but a serious damper on that. The pagans have been thirsting for the good old days, like the nazis did and are doing now just observe politics.

Read all about it here

http://www.defendthefamily.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm

The war with islam isn’t so much about religion as it is about race. You know, white europeans vs brown middle easterners. Since the dawn of time wars were along racial lines. It is only recently since the magne carta and the concept of countries that wars were fought for country.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 18:08

Actually, it’s totally counterproductive to make that argument because it will sidetrack any discussion and draw attention away from legitimate criticism’s of Katz and Kimmel’s work.

-Jack

It also draws attention away from the fact that Jewish men have been hammered by feminism as hard as anyone. I’d even argue that they’ve been hit harder. You and I are kind of gritty, Western Americans, so we both know there’s a big geographical expanse outside of the cities we live in that has been largely spared. Jewish guys, on the other hand, can’t stay within their own cultural milieu and run away from it. I could cross the Cascades and forget all this crap in some place like Ellensburg or Walla Walla. I might not feel entirely at home there, but the people would accept me. The only thing that keeps me stuck in the retarded, socially dysfunctional and feminist (not to mention overwhelmingly gentile) society of Seattle is my kids, who I will never abandon if I have a choice in the matter.

Now imagine being a Jewish guy in an urban, largely Jewish environment. His wife ditches him, nails him for heavy-duty alimony and half of his assets, and if he blows town he’s going to be an outsider without the cultural support he would get within his own community. This actually happens a lot. If you go in front of a family court judge, and you’re a Jewish man, do you think you’d actually get a break? No way, man. They’ll take the same CS/alimony formula and apply it to you, and if you happened to be married to a gentile woman plenty of other Jews would just say “that’s what you get.”

What American men are facing discriminates one the basis of gender — not religion.

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Jack Donovan November 9, 2009 at 18:29

Well, I agree that either of us could walk away and find a simpler, more traditional place–though I will note that the world is getting smaller and those places are not as isolated from the city mouse bullshit as they were 50 years ago. I think modern country music is often kinda funny for that reason–I call it “Wal-Mart Country” because these “proud rednecks” have cell phones and the Internet just like the rest of us.

Regarding ze Jews, interesting point. I’ve lived and worked in some heavily Jewish areas of LA and NY, and I’ve always assumed there was a great deal of good old fashioned nepotism going on that explained things a lot better than any “conspiracy theory,” but I’ve never been close enough to the inside to really make a call on how much Jews feel like outsiders or need to be with other Jews. It’s a bit like homosexuality that way…some Jews look and sound extremely Jewish, they’re almost “over the top” Jewish, like Woody Allen, but a lot of people who were raised Jewish fly under the radar and blend in–so I wouldn’t even think to treat them like outsiders. Jewishness is kind of an odd subject because there are multiple elements involved–some racial elements, some cultural elements. It has always seemed to me that a high percentage of Jews were perhaps “culturally Jewish” but religiously atheist. With my limited knowledge I’d suspect that a “culturally Jewish” atheist of Jewish descent would do fine in the country if his mannerisms were normal for that area, but obviously a devout, practicing Jew would have a harder time. None of it really matters, just kind of bullshitting it out.

At the end of the day I agree with you that it’s more about men than race or religion–though those things are not the non-issues many of us have been taught to pretend they are. If I had to pick a side with whites specifically or with men generally, I’d probably pick men generally. I read in an outdoors magazine once that grown men–men past the point of having to prove how special and unique they are–are “as alike as eggs.” I’ve always liked that, and to a limited extent, I agree.

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Puma November 9, 2009 at 19:34

You anti-dentite bastard.

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Deborah November 9, 2009 at 19:35

If you guys form a separate man civilization can I join? Something tells me you’ll have the better video games.

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abe November 9, 2009 at 20:00

lurker is pretty much the most retarded person who hangs out at Roissy’s comments section.

I mean, it’s possible that the black guy in question was, I don’t know, more attractive and charismatic than the schlep who lurker feels was entitled to pussy because of his income. lurker’s anger at the guy who got the girl says everything about him: he’s bitter and lonely and begrudges other men their success.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 20:31

If you guys form a separate man civilization can I join? Something tells me you’ll have the better video games.

-Deborah

I’m working on a little present for you, Anoukange and Kis et al. A special place with unicorns and rainbows and all the rest.

Hehe.

Kinda kidding, but there will be something to join soon. Very soon, I hope. I’ve just got to work through a few steps.

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Eman November 9, 2009 at 21:02

Since the conversation has turned to Jews and feminism, it is impossible to ignore that a disproportionately huge percentage of prominent feminists have been ethnic Jews: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_feminists

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Gx1080 November 9, 2009 at 21:18

Heh. A religion sustained on a guilt culture creates bitter males that just want the destruction of all the social orders? Color me surprised.

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kis November 9, 2009 at 21:38

I’m working on a little present for you, Anoukange and Kis et al. A special place with unicorns and rainbows and all the rest.

Hehe.

Kinda kidding, but there will be something to join soon. Very soon, I hope. I’ve just got to work through a few steps.

I don’t know whether to be excited or afraid. Either way, I’m kind of getting all tingly. :P

Good call on the unicorns, though. I hate those supercilious, holier-than-thou fuckers. For glorified goats, they sure think they’re all that.

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Jack Donovan November 9, 2009 at 21:59

That is quite a list, Eman.

I guess a good question would be which prominent feminists are not of Jewish descent or religion.

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Welmer November 9, 2009 at 23:10

That is quite a list, Eman.

I guess a good question would be which prominent feminists are not of Jewish descent or religion.

-Jack

Well, if we start with Mary Wollstonecraft it would be a long list indeed.

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Eman November 9, 2009 at 23:51

Wollstonecraft and other Anglo-Saxon, German, French, and American advocates for a gradualist non-radical approach to women’s rights and female suffrage were not feminists; feminism is a much more recent 20th century invention which was/is closely allied with communism and far-left liberalism that was incubated in Marxist/liberal circles in many Western cities, universities, communist think-tanks, and the mass-media by ethnic Jews, not White Europeans.

Many White/European females have unfortunately become ‘feminists’ after being indoctrinated by these people in the last 40+ years in many Western cities, universities, the mass-media, and so on, but overall feminism is not of The West as the earlier and much more gradualist/non-radical forms of female rights advocacy was.

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Welmer November 10, 2009 at 00:22

Wollstonecraft was “non-radical?” You gotta be kidding me…

The woman was an insane, promiscuous fanatic who mothered bastards while married out of a sense of female entitlement. Don’t try to sanctify her here.

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dagezhu November 10, 2009 at 02:28

‘if you can’t tolerate being called a douche and a fag, get off the Internet.’

Or go to a place on the Internet with moderated comments.

It’s simply incorrect to say, “I’m accustomed to the rude parts of the Internet, therefore the whole Internet should be as rude as I expect.”

If there were no market for moderated sites, there would be no moderated sites, and everyone would be on Usenet.

Instead, people gravitate to sites that moderate comments and kick out or censor the comments that the moderators personally dislike. It’s not fair, but if you can find a moderator whose opinions you support, then you can enjoy being a part of that community.

If the Spearhead is a place where people have to put up with being called a douche and a fag, it will attract the kind of people whose vocabulary tops out at slurs.

If peer pressure suppresses the verbal abuse, moderators may be unnecessary.

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dagezhu November 10, 2009 at 02:41

Welmer:’It also draws attention away from the fact that Jewish men have been hammered by feminism as hard as anyone. ‘

If I had to ‘shoot from the hip’ and take a wild guess, I would think Kevin MacDonald might be able to show that the Jewish men who suffer are the poorly connected fringe. Honestly, though, I’m not an expert on Kevin MacDonald – he might agree with you.

Arbitrary:’ I have no problem–and nor should anyone else–with people being anti-liberal, or anti-communist, or anti-feminist. These are positions a person takes against an ideology. Racism and anti-semitism are positions a person takes against a group of people for who they are; it’s intellectually sloppy, morally reprehensible, and a bad idea.’

I note that Kevin MacDonald has often been called anti-Semitic by professional leftists and Communists.

In my opinion, professional leftists are guilty of greater intellectual sloppiness than Kevin MacDonald.

I think Arbitrary’s comment shows considerable intellectual sloppiness.

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Gx1080 November 10, 2009 at 03:07

Oh come on, there is censorship in here:

http://www.the-spearhead.com/commenting-policy/

Try to read it, is in the top of the blog, for fuck’s sake. Now a few points:

1) It’s incorrect to say “If you don’t do what I want this place will fail”.

2)The Internet is one of the few bastions left when males don’t have to be all educated and nice. Besides, in a mostly male territory curses are a normality. Deal with it.

3)Everytime I hear someone talk about peer pressure, it means that you want to influence others to give a shit about your plea. That kind of manipulative BS isn’t going to fly in here, my dear. If you want to be white-knighted you need to have a vagina.

4)I’m not defending lurker. He’s a troll, and an angry one. I don’t care too much about him. But he has a point, you racial oversensitivity isn’t helping too much. And yes, I said yours. Stop sockpuppeting dragnet, we can see through it.

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abe November 10, 2009 at 07:23

GX1080, everyone being allowed to use the language that lurker did (and that’s the sort of emotion laden, highly embarrassing attempts to belittle others using bad words a la middle school) degrades the place. And, furthermore, there’s no use denying that The Spearhead draws a fair amount of readers from the anti-non-white crowds. If the The Spearhead wants to be a place were anti-minority sentiments are freely expressed without controversy — if, in other words, it wants to be another white nationalist hang out — then so be it, but until that’s made official policy, excuse people who object to not so subtle race baiting. And, furthermore, it’s kind of dumb to accuse others of sockpuppeting when you’re doing exactly that yourself.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 07:49

GX1080, it was faggy draggy who started the ad hominems here. I told an illustrative story regarding the article above.

You should really look up the definition sometime.

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Jack Donovan November 10, 2009 at 08:03

If the The Spearhead wants to be a place were anti-minority sentiments are freely expressed without controversy — if, in other words, it wants to be another white nationalist hang out — then so be it, but until that’s made official policy, excuse people who object to not so subtle race baiting.

There’s a difference between “without controversy” and calling for special protection, moderation, polite tea party talk or political correctness. As far as I can tell, the only people asking for certain kinds of comments not to be allowed, because they are offended by them, are the ones crying “racist.” I haven’t seen anyone demand that people of color shouldn’t be heard.

It will be a more honest world when we get over this womanly “words wound” culture .

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Firepower November 10, 2009 at 08:09

Jack Donovan

It will be a more honest world when we get over this womanly “words wound” culture .

Women, for all their claims, do not – nor ever – seek honesty.

Men with balls once ruled. Words as expression of ideology were once called Freedom of Speech.

There’s been no such thing for decades.

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Jack Donovan November 10, 2009 at 08:14

I tend to agree.

Which is why in my opinion if you are a man who is going to demand that other men stop saying naughty words or “expressing sentiments” that offend your precious sensibilities, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

This is only my opinion.

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abe November 10, 2009 at 08:28

Something has certainly gone wrong when we equate civility and respect with effeminacy. Is “faggy draggy” said over and over again (it’s funny because “draggy” rhymes with “faggy” lolz) really an example of Freedom of Speech, of a Man Not Being Afraid of Using Words as an Expression of Ideology? Really? Because to me it seems like some 15 year old circa-1998 stumbling upon chat rooms for the first time and getting carried away with his ability to say naughty things without consequence. 95% of the posters here are civil without being forced to and naturally recoil from lurker-esque name calling. What always happens though in many online communities is that the 5% of posters who aren’t sophisticated enough to recoil from childish name-calling end up setting the tone for the whole place. To object to this isn’t to ask for special protection. It isn’t to deny anyone Freedom of Speech. It’s to realize to that jackasses can ruin pleasant places with their imbecilic antics.

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 08:43

The large amount of Jewish Feminist leaders might have to do with the large amount of Jewish women who sought a University education, and then went on to pursue higher degrees. They were at the place the propaganda was taking place, embraced it, and then proceeded to propagandize it on their own. If Jews have a cultural identity that encourages educational attainment, lets be honest, most aren’t going to play for the NBA, then more Jewish females will embrace said educational attainment. To further that line of thought, if Jewish people stress family and religion, most Jewish women would be inclined to believe that they will marry a male provider, and thus could afford to major in the soft-sciences, including the softest of them all, Women’s Studies. They were simply at the wrong place, at the wrong time, to recieve the wrong information. Everyone likes to be a victim (seeing yourself as an underdog makes all your victories that much sweeter), and Jewish women got to double down on their victimhood. Female Jew. Now, why female jews have the stereotype/reality of being princesses, probably has more to do with them being a female within an patriarchal/provider environment. Jews out there, how am I doing?

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 08:45

The above is a guesstimation, but I like it. Did I hit the mark at all?

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 08:52

abe, secretly faggy draggy in disguise:

“Something has certainly gone wrong when we equate civility and respect with effeminacy.”
—lol. I love when liberals get to define what civility and respect are—which is basically using liberal NewSpeak, and don’t you forget it! Man up and quit being a woman.

“Is “faggy draggy” said over and over again (it’s funny because “draggy” rhymes with “faggy” lolz) really an example of Freedom of Speech, of a Man Not Being Afraid of Using Words as an Expression of Ideology?”
—Nah, I just like driving you insane, faggy.

“Because to me it seems like some 15 year old circa-1998 stumbling upon chat rooms for the first time and getting carried away with his ability to say naughty things without consequence.”
—a liberal pussy attempting a half-ass psych evaluation from his extensive reading of Sylvia Plath? Sky blue, water wet!

“95% of the posters here are civil without being forced to and naturally recoil from lurker-esque name calling.”
—I’m so sorry I hurt your faggoty-ass feelings.

” What always happens though in many online communities is that the 5% of posters who aren’t sophisticated enough to recoil from childish name-calling end up setting the tone for the whole place. ”
—right. Then there’re the liberals like you who see any body describing someone as a black guy as automatically wearing Klan hoods.

“To object to this isn’t to ask for special protection.”
—but we need hate crime legislation here! He’s hurting my wittle wiberal fweelings. :(

“It isn’t to deny anyone Freedom of Speech.”
—faggy, I know liberal morons like you think you can scream Freedom of Speech and therefore get to say anything, anywhere, anytime. You’re wrong. Freedom of Speech only prevents governments (state and fed) from imposing unnecessary restrictions on speech.

The Spearhead can’t deny anyone Freedom of Speech. Dumbass.

“It’s to realize to that jackasses can ruin pleasant places with their imbecilic antics.”
—like being overly sensitive race-whores? Exactly.

Faggy, get bent.

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 08:55

“lurker November 10, 2009 at 7:49 am
GX1080, it was faggy draggy who started the ad hominems here. I told an illustrative story regarding the article above.

You should really look up the definition sometime.”

Lurker, he asked you a question. He didn’t attack first. It might have been a dumb question, but I’m of the belief that no questions are dumb. He was trying to start a dialouge about something serious to him. Racism still exists, but was really bad even 40 years ago, one generation, and with PTSD, hyper vigilance is a symptom. Doesn’t mean that hyper vigilance is rational. I agree he was being overly sensitive, but we can’t dismiss the damage done to the cultural psyche of the black male. I personally hate thugs and gangstas myself, but I doubt Dragnet is anywhere near that, as he is here, participating in intellectual discourse. And I hate thugging just as much in white people, if not more. The black culture has problems. Big ones. Some of those problems are internal, some are caused by soft racism, but I think Feminism has been a huge wound in the side of the black male and female, and unlike the other problems, is ignored, and therefore left to fester. The MRA movement may be the place to help the black culture get back on track.

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Arbitrary November 10, 2009 at 09:08

Jabherwockie, your comment (as well as those of Welmer and Jack earlier) is a pretty accurate assessment, at least from my experience. Because Jews are and have historically been plurality middle class intellectuals, they are more prone to producing semi-utopian idealists with little interest in practicality or human nature. This has been of immense value in advancing mathematics and science, but has also contributed to the rise of ideologies such as Communism and feminism.

My only quibble is that I wouldn’t call “Women’s Studies” any kind of a science, hard or soft.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 09:13

faggy draggy smaggy snaggy

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 09:13

Jabherwochie, the question is the sort of “How long have you been beating your wife?” query that liberal pussies love to use to imply racism. Then they invent a system where race must always be accounted for—always good for blacks, always bad for whites.

There are lots of dumb questions. Here’s one I’m sure you’ve asked: “Does anal sex get me pregnant?”

The idea that somehow black people have PTSD is laughable, you pussy.

“we can’t dismiss the damage done to the cultural psyche of the black male. ”
—-lmao rofl. So I see we have an ethnic studies major.

The only “damage” done to the black male psyche is by other black males putting bullets in it. Oh, and by liberal pussies excusing every black action as “caused by the damage to the black male psyche” or else “cultural diversity.”

“And I hate thugging just as much in white people, if not more.”
—right. I see you out stopping it right now.

“Some of those problems are internal, some are caused by soft racism”
—the black communtiy’s problem is the black community. “soft racism” or whatever other unprovable, made up term your college professor told you has nothing to with it.

“The MRA movement may be the place to help the black culture get back on track.”
—yeah, right.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 09:14

ps 9:13 is a sock puppet.

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Gx1080 November 10, 2009 at 09:19

@abe

Try to read the whole damn post before replying. And really, your PC enforcement idea is despised for males except for those guys still in the “No child left behind” phase. Long version: Cry me a river of your tears just because your precious sensibilities got hurt. Short version: QQ moar, n00b.

I’m not defending lurker

See, I’ve said it.

@lurker
You are trolling. I don’t care about a fuck once in a while, but your posts since dragnet cried wolf had been strings of curses. From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

dragnet also falls in this definition, but you are doing that plus cursing like a drunken sailor. The only difference is that you and him are on opposite sides of the fence. Try to low the curses a little your point will get across more.

All that is without touching your message, just the way you choose to transmit it. So, you are free to express your opinions here, just cut the “faggy draggy” paart.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 09:21

Gx1080:
You just quoted wikipedia to back up a claim. You lose.

“Try to low the curses a little your point will get across more.”
—thank you for the debate tip, o professor of discourse!

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abe November 10, 2009 at 09:23

“lol. I love when liberals get to define what civility and respect are—which is basically using liberal NewSpeak, and don’t you forget it! Man up and quit being a woman.”

I’m not a liberal. Also: you’re an idiot.

“—Nah, I just like driving you insane, faggy.”

Yes. You frequently get the better of people. You are teh awesome.

“a liberal pussy attempting a half-ass psych evaluation from his extensive reading of Sylvia Plath? Sky blue, water wet!”

Reading poetry is not unmanly, you man child.

“—I’m so sorry I hurt your faggoty-ass feelings.”

Remember that movie “American Beauty” when the really angry neighbor who hated gays turned out to be gay? Yea.

“right. Then there’re the liberals like you who see any body describing someone as a black guy as automatically wearing Klan hoods.”

Well, you do have a reputation. I mean, you’re not exactly being assessed without regards to your frequent white-nationalist tirades at Roissy’s when you casually make remarks that have a whiff of racist rage to them.

“but we need hate crime legislation here! He’s hurting my wittle wiberal fweelings. ”

lurker: that guy was black.

some dude: why does that matter?

lurker: OH MY GOD LIBERALS I’M HURTING YOUR FEELINGS LOLZ FAGS

“faggy, I know liberal morons like you think you can scream Freedom of Speech and therefore get to say anything, anywhere, anytime. You’re wrong. Freedom of Speech only prevents governments (state and fed) from imposing unnecessary restrictions on speech.”

Thank you for the civic lesson. Now please continue to be angry that that woman rejected the guy who was like you (though you probably don’t earn anywhere near as much as him).

“like being overly sensitive race-whores? Exactly.

Faggy, get bent.”

keyboard diarrhea.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 09:32

Honest faggy, I mean abe:

“I’m not a liberal.”
—of course you’re not. (Go Nobama!)

“Yes. You frequently get the better of people. You are teh awesome.”
—glad you finally can admit it.

“Reading poetry is not unmanly, you man child.”
—reading crappy female poetry only elevated because she was a mentally disturbed female is, you child.

“Remember that movie “American Beauty” when the really angry neighbor who hated gays turned out to be gay? Yea.”
—remeber how liberals use pop psychology that has no grounding in fact to psychoanalyze opponents? Yea.

“Well, you do have a reputation. I mean, you’re not exactly being assessed without regards to your frequent white-nationalist tirades at Roissy’s when you casually make remarks that have a whiff of racist rage to them. ”
—lol. White nationalist tirades. Name one?

“lurker: OH MY GOD LIBERALS I’M HURTING YOUR FEELINGS LOLZ FAGS”
—the question was a loaded question by your liberal alter ego. It was dog whistle politics. Get bent.

“keyboard diarrhea.”
—which is exactly what you are.

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Arbitrary November 10, 2009 at 09:41
Gx1080 November 10, 2009 at 09:46

@lurker

Fine, do as you please. Whatever. Troll.

@abe

Come on man, is your third alias on this thread. The e-mail swap don’t cover your writing style. And really, pop psychology is just rationalizing the rage of losing a discussion on the Internet.

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abe November 10, 2009 at 09:49

“—of course you’re not. (Go Nobama!)”

I’m sure this made sense in your head.

“—glad you finally can admit it.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

“—reading crappy female poetry only elevated because she was a mentally disturbed female is, you child.”

I trust the literary prowess of the man who coined “faggy draggy.”

“remeber how liberals use pop psychology that has no grounding in fact to psychoanalyze opponents? Yea.”

This is what you call “pop psychology” or “psych evaluation”: my likening your behavior to that of a 15 year old circa 1998 just discovering chat rooms. That isn’t psychological analysis, lurker: that’s a put down by analogy. I’m saying “you are like” so and so. I’m not sitting here theorizing that you were fucked by your father or something.

“—lol. White nationalist tirades. Name one?”

You just have that racist stink about you, is all. I recall many threads where you were going on and on about race this, race that.

“the question was a loaded question by your liberal alter ego. It was dog whistle politics. Get bent.”

but your “response” was along these lines: “OH KNOWS SNAGGY FAGGY BLACK PEOPLE BAD AFFIRMATIVE ACTION”

Kill yourself.

“which is exactly what you are.”

No, YOU are the keyboard diaheria. Invent your OWN put-downs, asshat.

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abe November 10, 2009 at 09:51

I’m not draggy. I was just following the discussion and was amazed at lurker’s behavior, is all. Why would I need another account to defend myself as against someone as moronic as lurker?

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Jack Donovan November 10, 2009 at 09:52

Arbitrary –

My only quibble is that I wouldn’t call “Women’s Studies” any kind of a science, hard or soft.

You can say that again.

It’s pure ideology that uses science when it is convenient. Feminist ideology was never inspired by evidence.

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 09:53

“Jabherwochie, the question is the sort of “How long have you been beating your wife?”

This part I agree on.

“There are lots of dumb questions. Here’s one I’m sure you’ve asked: “Does anal sex get me pregnant?”

Depends on who is asking. Would it be dumb for your daughter to ask you that after I anal raped her?

“The idea that somehow black people have PTSD is laughable, you pussy. ”

Hyperbole to make a point. I’ll wait right here while you look that word up….

Back, okay, good.

“we can’t dismiss the damage done to the cultural psyche of the black male. ”

—-lmao rofl. So I see we have an ethnic studies major.”

If the cultural psyche of the black male can’t be damaged, then neither can the cultural psyche of males in general, making our movement pointless. Are you a member of the MRA movement, or just the clan? Excuse me…how rude of me…the Klan.

“And I hate thugging just as much in white people, if not more.”

—right. I see you out stopping it right now.”

Actually, of all the people who I’ve beat down, a large percentage of them were white thugs. There are plenty of exceptions, as douche bags come in many flavors, you being of the sophmoric punk variety. Your type is especially squishy in a fight. You crumple real fast once real damage is being applied to you, something your ego never comprehended until its too late. Confidence helps in fights, but yours just gives you an imaginary shield against bullets, and ends up doing you more harm then good.

“Some of those problems are internal, some are caused by soft racism”

—the black communtiy’s problem is the black community. “soft racism” or whatever other unprovable, made up term your college professor told you has nothing to with it.”

Soft racism is a descriptive term of a type of racism. If you don’t think it exists, then you simply blind yourself to reality when it suits your needs. The proof it exists is found in real world experience. I live in South Carolina. My dad is from Alabama. My mom is from West Virginia. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me its raining.

“The MRA movement may be the place to help the black culture get back on track.”

—yeah, right.”

Brilliant come back. It betrays your true bigotry and hatred. I hope we meet in real life.

And by the way, I majored in Art. Everything else I know comes from reading books, lots of them, and ones with opposing views, not just hate propaganda like you. I am superior to you. Accept it, just like you want blacks to accept their inferiority.

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Gx1080 November 10, 2009 at 09:53

@abe

For winning cool points because you want to make us believe that there’s others supporting your ideas.So far it hasn’t worked.

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Reinholt November 10, 2009 at 09:55

People need to stop acting like they are three years old.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 09:56

honest faggy:

“I’m sure this made sense in your head.”
—Clearly not in yours, since the voices moved in.

Quoting wikipedia. You lose. And perhaps you should look at a real definition of sarcasm when reading my response on that point.

“I trust the literary prowess of the man who coined “faggy draggy.””
—and I trust the literary intelligence of a man who thinks Sylvia Plath is a good poet.

“I’m not sitting here theorizing that you were fucked by your father or something.”
—and, to steal the liberal pop psychoanalyzing, that’s called projection, people.

And claiming that calling you faggot means I am one is pop psychology. Dumbass.

“You just have that racist stink about you, is all.”
—lol. Now we get down to the bottom of it. I ask for proof, he offers none–just merely his liberal “feeling” that I am a racist. Classic liberalism: fail on the facts, scream abotu emotions.

“I recall many threads where you were going on and on about race this, race that. ”
–talking about race, or racial differences, or racial preferences, or white liberals submitting to blacks on a regular basis, isn’t wearing a Klan hood, though you want it to be.

“but your “response” was along these lines”
—my response was to bring your alter ego out and spank him like the bitchy little child he was.

“Kill yourself.”
—faggies first.

“No, YOU are the keyboard diaheria.”
—NO, YOU ARE. lol.

“Invent your OWN put-downs, asshat.”
—but yours are so much fun to mock.

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Arbitrary November 10, 2009 at 09:56

Hmm…that worked in the preview. Oh well.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Ignoring the sort of comment that started this is good life advice. Ignoring people who bicker about it in this manner, when it distracts from the topic, is good internet forum advice. At least when I engaged with our earlier feminist troll it was actually about the topic of the article presented.

Reasons why arguing with an internet troll is worse than arguing with a feminist:
They both:
–will never admit that they were wrong
–are mostly only arguing for the emotional thrill
–often don’t even believe what they are saying
–completely ignore logical aspects of a response if there is even the slightest hint of emotion involved
–thrive on useless and largely meaningless insults

But at least when you argue with a feminist, you might change how they react emotionally the next time the topic comes up. An internet troll will never give up the opportunity for “the lulz”.

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 10:08

Way down yonder on the Jabherwochie:

“Depends on who is asking.”
—lol. Liberalism: nothing is dumb, except what we declare it.

“Hyperbole to make a point.”
—a liberal? Backing away from an outrageous claim he made, while claiming he never made it? lol.

“If the cultural psyche of the black male can’t be damaged, then neither can the cultural psyche of males in general, making our movement pointless. ”
—lol. Never said it couldn’t be damaged. I was making fun your claim that blacks have some sort of PTSD from “soft racism.” Because there is none.

“Are you a member of the MRA movement, or just the clan? Excuse me…how rude of me…the Klan.”
—again, unsupported “racist” claims. How liberal of you, asshat.

“Actually, of all the people who I’ve beat down,”
—10 stuffed animals and his invisible freind.

“a large percentage of them were white thugs. ”
—-liberal fantasies about the world.

“There are plenty of exceptions, as douche bags come in many flavors, you being of the sophmoric punk variety. Your type is especially squishy in a fight. You crumple real fast once real damage is being applied to you, something your ego never comprehended until its too late. Confidence helps in fights, but yours just gives you an imaginary shield against bullets, and ends up doing you more harm then good.”
—lol I love this liberal Rambo fantasy persona he’s invented, where he’s the big tough guy discussing how to beat me up. I’m soooooo scared of you, 9th level paladin.

“Soft racism is a descriptive term of a type of racism.”
—made up by academic leftists who have no data to prove their points, so they just call it “soft.”

“If you don’t think it exists, then you simply blind yourself to reality when it suits your needs.”
—or I do something so white male evil, like demanding evidence!

“The proof it exists is found in real world experience. I live in South Carolina. My dad is from Alabama. My mom is from West Virginia. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me its raining.”
–anecdotal evidence from a knee jerk liberal! I have stories, not evidence! Ignore statistics!

“Brilliant come back. It betrays your true bigotry and hatred. I hope we meet in real life.”
—so you can pee your pants?

Kid, blaming feminism for the failures of the bl;ack community is to blame the oppression of the chinese people on the mau-maus. Both are bad, but your argument is a non sequitor.

“And by the way, I majored in Art.”
—that explains pretty much everything about you, pussy.

And an art student, pretending to be a tough guy thug killer? lmao.

“Everything else I know comes from reading books, lots of them, and ones with opposing views, not just hate propaganda like you.”
—-lol.

“I am superior to you.”
—No, I am superior to you. lol.

” Accept it, just like you want blacks to accept their inferiority.”
—never said blacks were inferior. Making up what you want me to say, like making up your toughness, is a product of your delusional mind, wussy.

Now go away.

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Jack Donovan November 10, 2009 at 10:14

BTW, to those who are worried about comments “driving smart people away” I would add that this isn’t a message board. This site is, I hope, content-driven. I read lots of articles on sites all over the web, and I only look at the comments when I’m looking for a fight.

Comments help sustain loyal interest from a small percentage of readers, but if the content is good it should attract attention on its own. Not everyone likes arguing for hours on the Internet.

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 10:26

” Accept it, just like you want blacks to accept their inferiority.”
—never said blacks were inferior. Making up what you want me to say, like making up your toughness, is a product of your delusional mind, wussy.

Now go away.”

I’ve got to admit, I kinda like him now. He’s pretty good.

@ Lurker

I did play Dungeons and Dragons, and I beat down plenty of tough guys who assumed I was harmless because I’m a geek, and I would pound you. But I give credit were credit is due….your good at smack talking. You don’t say much, laying traps, which allows you to deconstruct other peoples ideas, not having many of yours out there to tear down. Its a good strategy, and one I’ve employed, but this is a forum of ideas, and that isn’t fair for you to just sit back and point out the flaws that exist in all philosophies. So tell me, what do you believe? What are your ideas? What is your philosophy?

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lurker November 10, 2009 at 10:37

way down yonder on the Jabherwochie:

” I beat down plenty of tough guys who assumed I was harmless because I’m a geek, and I would pound you. ”
—lmao rofl. This pussy is hilarious. Art major. Tough Guy. Its like Sean Penn wrote his material.

“this is a forum of ideas,”
—or in your case ,lack of them.

” and that isn’t fair for you to just sit back and point out the flaws that exist in all philosophies. ”
—-lol. I decide what’s fair, bitch.

“So tell me, what do you believe? What are your ideas? What is your philosophy?”
—Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.

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Arbitrary November 10, 2009 at 10:42

You can say that again.

It’s pure ideology that uses science when it is convenient. Feminist ideology was never inspired by evidence.

To be fair, this sort of co-opting of the word science isn’t just restricted to feminists. A number of fields that really don’t deserve the term have tried to apply it to themselves in order to increase their legitimacy. Science is the process of making falsifiable claims, then testing them through experimental observation (which should be understood as being observations that are independent of the observer, and theoretically repeatable). Engineering is not science (although good engineering requires that science be done in order to determine important parameters involved in the task). Mathematics is not science per se, but actually achieves a higher degree of truth since its claims are actually verifiable. Philosophy is not science (although some science has lately been done in the service of philosophy, in examining people’s actual reactions to various moral dilemmas). The whole host of other things pretending to be science are barely even worth mentioning by comparison.

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Deborah November 10, 2009 at 11:13

“I’m working on a little present for you, Anoukange and Kis et al. A special place with unicorns and rainbows and all the rest. “

Scared….but very curious.

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21Guns November 10, 2009 at 11:16

Screw the rainbows and unicorns. I wanna see hunkage.

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zed November 10, 2009 at 11:33

If you guys form a separate man civilization can I join? Something tells me you’ll have the better video games.

And more interesting conversations. ;)

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Jack Donovan November 10, 2009 at 12:17

Arbitrary –

Agreed. It’s definitely not just Women’s Studies. All of the “Social Sciences” suffer from approximately the same problems. I’ll defer to you regarding engineering and mathematics, but the social sciences are, for the most part, “good bullshit+consensus=truth.”

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 12:30

“—Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.”

Deep. Thanks for opening up to us. All I can tell by that is that you’re a hedonistic-conservative who really likes baseball and has a way with words. Your probably really good with women also, but never needed PUA, as your a natural asshole. I just hope you direct the enormous fire power of your mouth towards Feminists as much as you do random joes who cross your path. I’m impressed. But Hitler impresses me also. I’d tell you to have fun, but sociopaths generally don’t need any encouragement.

And you’re a bitch. Last word times infinity plus infinity. Gotta play by your rules.

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Harry November 10, 2009 at 12:36

@Jack

“but the social sciences are, for the most part, “good bullshit+consensus=truth.””

Yours truly has a PhD in Psychology – much of which involves “social science”.

And I can affirm that your statement is absolutely spot on.

And when it comes to relationship issues (domestic violence, rape etc) the social science researchers mostly live in a world of make-believe.

It needn’t have been this way, but what has happened is that so many social scientists have lost touch with reality that we can no longer tell (without extremely detailed analysis) who is talking rubbish and who is not.

The psychoanalysts did the same.

Freud started out with some good notions as to what MIGHT be behind our thinking and behaviour but, before long, he and those who followed him took the whole subject way beyond the scope that it could possibly deal with – and they mostly leapt into a world of pure – and ridiculous -fantasy.

Social science – as practised today – needs to be debunked and ridiculed in much the same way that astrology has been; until the social scientists themselves start to shape up and recognise that their subject has significant limitations.

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Jabherwochie November 10, 2009 at 13:06

Shit, he got me. He ended with a quote from Bull Durham. He’s good…he’s good….

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sestamibi November 13, 2009 at 08:51

Jabherwochie & Arbitrary–

I agree with your conclusions re Jewish women. I’m lucky to have found one that’s a six sigma in terms of not (or I should say for complete accuracy) no longer believing in the feminist drivel.

I also coined the term “critical queer studies” as an all-encompassing name for all the politically-motivated victim studies programs on what pass for college campuses these days.

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iron clad December 13, 2009 at 00:09

Ooooo ! The heart beats … like a dance of swivelied feet….

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shes'oldschool January 9, 2010 at 14:08

We interrupt this extended argument to insert a comment on the article…

I think that one of the big possibilities of the undeniable forces he’s discussing is something like… ugh. England right now. My read is, [for them] that the uphill struggle is so unappealing that men just… give up. OR rather, that not enough men keep up the faith in the old system to make a significant difference in the tide of apathy and shame.

I like to think that there are enough men (mentors *and* youth) here in the States who didn’t take the red pill to avoid this problem, but… I don’t really have a good source for demographics to make a judgment either way. But when I factor in the damage done by the Public Schools in this country, and the wild success of the “Teenager” construct…. I admit my optimism flags a bit.
The LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) assumptions seem to be very seductive for no reason I can comprehend.

Perhaps when the gravy train runs out they will decide to do something sensible rather than run the streets red with blood.
Damned Bread and Circuses!

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Mark March 6, 2010 at 22:02

A good article, however…..

I think what the author has forgotten is the case of Islamisation. Living in the UK, now in Scotland, having lived in London for 16 years, I saw a dramatic change in demographics there. From moving down at the start, inner city schools were still predominantly white (just) with an almost equal number of Afro Caribbean. Now however the majority are Muslim Asian mixed with Afro Caribbean and a minimum of whites.

I did predict that Islamisation of the West will occur over 6 years ago. More and more western males will also embrace Islam as it will give them protection and power over women whom in Islam are “half that of a man.”

The future looks grim for the white male, christianity, agnosticism, atheism and other non Muslim faiths. You speak of anarchy, but that will not happen when Islam is the majority.
However, one thing’s for sure, either way with Islamisation or not feminism is f*cked and worse still, women really don’t know just how big a hole their digging for themselves. The horrors we hear of the sex slave trade of Eastern European women will happen to them and there will be no one prepared to protect them. We will certainly see the rise of misogyny on a tremendous scale as no forgiveness will be given, to a once pampered, protected and respected part of the fairer sex within the west, who had it all, we gave a yard and they took a mile. One thing goes without saying and that is if you f*ck with nature, nature will only do the same back. The bond has been broken between male and female. The respect for women is disappearing faster than a chicken in Ethiopia. Being a man who once put women on a pedestal, I’m now the complete opposite (although certainly not a misogynist) someone, who’d never go to the aid of a “damsel in distress.” Why? Well they’ve created the state, so let the state protect them. They’ll find that an even more impossible event in the future, as more and more men will no longer feel the need to treat a part of society that treats them like sh*t.

Women are about to enter a new dark age, either with or without Islamisation and I hate to say it, but they’ll have created it and brought it tumbling down on top of them like a tonne of bricks, themselves.

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phoff March 15, 2010 at 00:03

Buying yuan only makes sense if the Chinese suddenly decide they no longer care about having a trade advantage with the US and allow the yuan to float naturally rather than artificially holding it to the dollar. That could happen if their domestic economy really gets going, but I don’t see it happening any time soon. China is still doing to many things to hamstring themselves from becoming the economic and innovation powerhouse that they seem poised to become.

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Stu October 15, 2010 at 23:09

As the economy tanks, and the US dollar collapses and America plunges in depression, rather then cut womens programs and womens health care and womens shelters and all the feminist pork sucking up billions of dollars……..we will treat the sinking country just like the sinking titanic…….women will be saved and protected…..and men sacrificed. We will transfer womens debts to men and put them in debtors prisions and make slaves out of them. In the end women will be walking around covered in gold and diamonds, dressed in silk, driving prestige cars and living in mansions while most men…….all apart from government…….police and military….will supervise the enslavement of all other men to prop up the womens privledges. And women will still cry victim and maintain they are the oppressed and victims……because occassionally their air conditioners break down and it takes a crew of male slaves a whole half hour to arrive and replace it.

I believe we must go on the rampage for things to change. We need to actualy attack and eliminate manginas and white nights……for a start. We need to put fear in the hearts of men who support feminism…….real fear.

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abe September 22, 2012 at 09:48

excuse me while I go suck on my own dick. liberals rule! 4 more years for obbama!

geez Im such a shit

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Nonymus July 2, 2013 at 01:17

well written especially the conclusion..i really took heart from it .Most feminists dont realize that civilisation would not have gone this far had it not been for the inventions of men (who continue to invent) that their messages wouldnt have spread to masses were it not for the mass comm systems invented by men..that medical science would not have made the giant leaps had it not been for men.I read articles that highlight men cant “multitask” (partial continued attention) well its the “Stupid” monotracking brains of men combined with spatial ability and logic that has made life so easy for women to sit on their ass and boast of their “superiority” in the net (another manly invention).Let them continue this system is surely headed for disaster ….men are doers…and they bone the whole system to shreds if they have to

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