Obama: Beta-in-Chief in 23,096 Words

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by Chuck Ross on October 29, 2009

Wow. I just noticed something. Our commander-in-chief is the least alpha of any of the leaders of our former enemies from World War II and the Cold War: Germany, Italy, and Russia. While I knew Obama exhibited beta behavior, I had no idea it was this bad. Give me a minute and I’ll lay out pictorial proof.

We all know that Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi holds the title of “Intergalactic Alpha”. The 73 year-old silverback is banging 18 year-olds, has amassed a fortune, laid the smack down on his wife, and avoided indictment and/or lynching for his shenanigans. Silvio has so firmly cemented his grip on the throne that his estate will receive royalties for use of the term alpha for 50 years after his death. The man is so alpha they’re thinking of changing the first letter of the Greek alphabet to Silvio.

In the realm of politics, ol’ Vlad Putin is Berlusconi’s rear admiral. The steely-eyed de facto Russian leader exhibits alpha body language and has his own sexcapades with a hot former gymnast 31 years his junior. He also owns Dmitri Medvedev, the current head of Russia. One only needs to observe the body language of each to realize it. Medvedev looks at his mentor with admiration, deference, and desire to please in his eyes. I will heretofore refer to him as “Fredo”.

                                                   

Medvedev isn’t owned solely by Putin; Berlusconi has property rights as well. Check out this picture in which Alpha 1 controls Medvedev’s frame, grasps his forearm, and teaches him the ways of the world: “…So you want to swirl; you can also end with a pinch.”

                                                        

Here he is literally controlling Medvedev.

                                       

And this.

                                    

While this picture doesn’t capture Berlusconi’s dominance of Medvedev – they seem to be having a serious discussion – pointing is an aggressive act that lesser men wouldn’t do to more dominant men. Medvedev feels the need to literally block Berlusconi’s aggression. Careful Fredo.

So Medvedev is pwned by both Berlusconi and Putin who happen to be on almost equal footing. They respect each other and seem to have a sort of father-son relationship. Berlusconi has developed close ties to Russia during his tenure. The incorrigible alphas behavior towards each other is the least superficial of any of the leaders I analyze here. Neither feels submissive towards the other – and neither dominant.

                                              

This shows Berlusconi’s comfort with Putin; it also shows that Berlusconi isn’t afraid to break normal social rules. We can say, at the least, that Berlusconi doesn’t feel threatened by Putin.

                                       

Would any other man in the world wipe the nose of Vladimir Putin?  Where do you think Gorbachev got that mark on his forehead?  The mark of an alpha is the ability to understand your surroundings and act properly.  Only a man with a deep reservoir of the stuff can act the way Silvio does and get away with it.

The wild card in my analysis is German Chancellor Angela Merkel. How does she respond to other world leaders? How does she react in the presence of Berlusconi, Putin, Medvedev, and Obama? She seems to have different relationships with our two established alphas.

Putin and Merkel:

                                   

We see that Merkel is comfortable around Putin. His alpha demeanor doesn’t seem to intimidate her or get her out of her frame.  The two look as if they are co-conspirators.

Merkel’s comfort is well-displayed by this next picture.

                                  

Look! She’s negging Vlad! “Is that caviar on your lapel?”  A person – female or not – wouldn’t feel comfortable making a direct gesture to another they felt intimidated by.

Merkel and Putin seem to have a good relationship on equal footing. She doesn’t seem intimidated by him and doesn’t exhibit submissive body language in his presence.  Putin doesn’t dominate Merkel in the same way he does Medvedev and Obama – as I’ll show later. Of course, Putin exhibits the stoicism of a corpse – something he likely learned in the KGB – so it can be difficult to glean his dominance from pictures.

On the other hand, Merkel seems to submissively defer to Berlusconi. She shows a coyishness around Alpha 1 that she doesn’t exhibit around other leaders. Last year, Berlusconi played a practical joke on Merkel by jumping out from behind a lamppost as she left her caravan. The Master shouted “Cuckoo!” to which Merkel responded “Silvio!” and emphatically embraced him. Check out the video through the link. Betas don’t play practical jokes on those higher up than them; this applies to the theory that alphas can afford to act outside the confines of normal social behavior.

                                  

In this picture, Merkel exhibits all of the submissiveness of Edith Bunker when Archie addresses her. Her slightly upturned lips and downward-tilted head indicates a large amount of panty moisture.

Berlusconi is also a master at displaying higher value – a trait inextricable from dominance. In the clip below, Berlusconi continues a phone call with NATO officials while Merkel is shown waiting to greet him. She looks on – perplexed – as Berlusconi continues chatting near the river. In international politics, this gesture is taken as a direct affront to the other leader; it is the international political version of a man showing up 10 minutes late for a date with a hot chick.  Casting aside the consequences of such behavior, this is further evidence that Berlusconi exhibits the most alpha behavior of any world leader. The body of evidence is irrefutable.

Now that we’ve analyzed Merkel’s relationship with the Don (Vito or Michael), let’s discuss that with Fredo. Fredo was the ne’er-do-well brother of Michael and Sonny. As such, he was sent on missions to shore up secondary concerns for “The Family Business”. He went out to Vegas to explore the casino business and down to Florida and Cuba to do business with Hymen Roth. He was given official status by the Corleone family, and if anyone fucked with him they fucked with the Don, but he was a minor player in family operations.  Such is Medvedev.

There aren’t many pictures of Merkel and Fredo together. We can assume that Merkel’s relationship with him is pointless to analyze for alpha cred purposes because her relationship with Putin seems to be on equal footing, and he’s the guy calling the shots. It’s pointless. But just for kicks, here’s one picture.

                                 

Medvedev’s toothy grin indicates either deference to Merkel or that she is funny. We all know the latter isn’t true.

One more.

                                  

Beta!

I’ve shown, through pictorial evidence and video footage, that Berlusconi is top alpha. Putin comes in a close second. Merkel defers to Berlusconi and would probably let him enter her from behind; she has a good relationship with Putin, and is indifferent to Medvedev – after all, he bought her flowers. Both Berlusconi and Putin treat Medvedev like Fredo Corleone. If he turns up dead in a lake, we’ll know what happened.

Now it’s time to turn to our own beta-in-chief. How does he stack up to the other world leaders? As a disclaimer, I voted for Obama. I have hopes that perhaps he’s merely ingratiating himself to his opponents, a la Trojan Horse, in order to make himself seem more submissive and weak than he actually is.   The first year of photographic evidence would support that theory; it would also support the theory that he’s a pansy.

Let me begin by providing some perspective. Being his first year in office, this is Obama’s introductory period to the stage of international affairs. To compare past behavior, let’s look at a proven alpha president, Ronald Reagan.

In his first meeting with Gorbachev, we see command of respect. Reagan offers his hand to Gorbachev as if it should be kissed as if to say “Mr. Gorbachev, suck…on…these…balls.”

                                 

Reagan wasn’t afraid to use strong body language with his opponents. His years as an actor trained him well. We see here a knife-shaped hand aimed directly at Gorbachev. Rather than exhibiting some of the submissive body language that I will show of Obama, Reagan didn’t wasn’t afraid of appearing aggressive.

                                              

Diplomacy doesn’t have to be weak-natured.  One can be diplomatic and push through a political agenda with strong body language and posturing.  Obama’s BBL (beta body language) isn’t a political contrivance; it’s in his nature. 

Let’s start with analysis of Obama and Medvedev’s handshake.

                                  

Palm-up beta handshake? Really? Maybe Obama was trying to give Medvedev some dap; I doubt it though. The palm-up handshake is classic submission. Obama is telegraphing “I bear no arms; I can’t hurt you; see, my hands are empty.”

                                   

This picture of Obama and Medvedev bring back memories of the Cold War. The air is thick with drama. Neither seem to like each other all that much. Medvedev seems to handle this a little better than Obama. Medvedev is stoic and upright. He seems at the ready. As Greg Lewis mentioned in his article above, Obama has a swiveling head and seems to shy away from Medvedev’s presence.  This is a submissive move.

                                  

Obama seems concerned about the handshake, being too aware of it rather than letting it happen naturally. He’s making sure his positioning is correct. He is unsure of himself. A dominant person thrusts his hand out there and lets the other guy worry about the logistics. If Obama preferred to have Medvedev “give him some skin”; he should have asked for it. Fredo, possibly due to some KGB handshake tactics gleaned from Papa Putin, doesn’t seem so concerned. The dominance of Medvedev’s shake stands in stark contrast to Obama’s wavering one.

                                   

This is the kicker; it shows Medvedev’s utter disrespect for Obama. What’s worse, Obama further tries to ingratiate himself to Medvedev by patting him on the shoulder. He even seems to be uttering something to Medvedev, which the puny leader doesn’t seem to be acknowledging. “Bitch look at me when I’m talking to you” should have been Obama’s reply.

                                 

Wait. No, no – this is the kicker. Bowing to Medvedev – with the elbow bent as if the arm is giving way – Obama might as well kiss his ring.

Let’s turn to Obama vis a vis Putin.

                                
At first I wondered how precise this picture analysis would be.  How can we glean proper insight into dominance and submission displays by looking at a picture?  One picture won’t do the trick, but the same pattern exhibited in picture after picture will.  Obama is overly concerned with grooming himself.  He is shown nervously fidgeting with his pant leg.  Putin probably doesn’t even notice he has pants on.  He probably thinks he’s sitting in an Afghani dungeon wearing soiled camo.  Obama gets mired in details; details are for betas (spot the evil egg in that statement). 
Ohhh-Oh Silvio!
 
                                 
Alpha 1 – with utter disregard for the contemptuous Obama – outwardly lusts after Michelle Obama.  He tramples on every decent social grace that international politicians abide by.  He is a loathesome brute, but yet we can’t look away. 
                                   
Again, Obama displays the submissive head-tilt as Berlusconi leans into his space.  If you look closely, you’ll also notice Obama’s hands are tightly intertwined, like two mangled twigs.  Alpha 1 has a confident, direct smirk on his face; he finds Obama amusing. 
 
So here’s the alphaness inequality with respect to dominance displays: Berlusconi > Putin. Putin and Merkel are ambiguous with hints of equal footing. Berlusconi > Merkel. Putin >> Medvedev. Thus Berlusconi >> Medvedev. Medvedev > Obama. Therefore, Berlusconi-Putin-Merkel-Medvedev > Obama.  QED or something.   If we were to take the references to The Godfather further, Silvio = Don (Vito or Michael); Putin = Sonny; Merkel = Tessio or Clemenza (depending on her loyalty); Medvedev = Fredo. What’s worse than Fredo? Rocco Lampone. Obama is Connie’s husband that Sonny beats the shit out of with a trashcan.

I’m not happy to expound on Obama’s betaness. I voted for the guy after all, and I’d rather have a strong leader rather than a weak one. His submission may not be as serious as it would outwardly seem. Less dominant primates often achieve alpha status by grooming and sucking up to other members of their troupe; this is politics in a nutshell. Whether that is Obama’s strategy remains to be seen. But we know each person’s history. Berlusconi and Putin came from alpha-building backgrounds: business and the KGB respectively. Medvedev was a corporate lawyer and a director on Gazprom’s board. Obama – famously – was a community organizer. Community organizer comes in slightly above librarian and accountant on the list of most beta professions.  Obama is submissive by nature. 

 The real issue for me is that our leader comes off looking like a wimp.  Unfortunately, a picture speaks a thousand words; I just produced 21,000 that show Obama’s true nature.

{ 231 comments… read them below or add one }

abe October 29, 2009 at 03:29

I’m as a pro-male advocate as any, but I find the sort of “alpha-male” traits (some) of the world leaders above show to be pretty unattractive. I loathe being around men like that.

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someone October 29, 2009 at 03:31

I’m sure all this superficial bullshit is somehow incredibly relevant.

Oh, wait, it’s not.

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abe October 29, 2009 at 03:35

Also, Obama is tall and unattractive: he can get away with being beta. And, perhaps, it’s all an act — he’s alpha by nature and, because of his upbringing and education, has learned to suppress uncouth displays of manliness.

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abe October 29, 2009 at 03:35

major typo^

I meant Obama is attractive.

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Max October 29, 2009 at 03:42

I was just talking to Jack about this last night.

Obama is kowtowing to his Party right now, holding back troops from Afghanistan for fear that deploying troops would be unpopular and cost him approval. Meanwhile, the UN and NATO are both holding their breath, waiting for the US to deploy more troops.

This indecisive waffling is definitely beta “cunt-like” behavior.

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abe October 29, 2009 at 04:23

“would be unpopular and cost him approval.”

Oh noes — Obama is a politician!

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 05:24

Berlusconi is under some pressure from Italian feminists about his latest escapades and so on, but he’s proven to be pretty teflon in the past. He’s been considered a rascal by most Europeans for a long time, but has managed to finagle his way to the premiership of Italy on more than one occasion, long after people counted him out as a dinosaur. That, in itself, is pretty impressive politically.

Medvyedyev is Putin’s puppet, clearly.

Obama is a natural high beta, and pretty much comes off that way.

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OneSTDV October 29, 2009 at 05:27

Voting for Obama should be cause for banishment from this site

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PA October 29, 2009 at 06:04

I doubt Obama’s betatude is a sneaky/disarming strategy of some sort. First, Mr. Occam says ‘nah, what you see is what you get.’ Secondly, I saw some archival footage on the History Channel of Obama’s days in community organizing. All the photos and reels showed him standing off to the side or by the wall, a complete nonentity wallflower, in a room full of very loud and energized individuals, mostly women.

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abe October 29, 2009 at 06:38

Okay everyone, Obama is a beta male.

Why are we using “beta” as an insult?

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691 October 29, 2009 at 06:49

“Why are we using “beta” as an insult?”

Because he is the President of the United States. It’s alright to be beta if you’re the father of three living next door. But it’s not ok when you lead a nation of 300 million people that is the world superpower. It’s embarrassing.

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Girm October 29, 2009 at 07:14

Okay everyone, Obama is a beta male.

Why are we using “beta” as an insult?

The leader of the US should act stronger than other men purely by his stronger position. You know you have a Jimmy Carter on your hands when they don’t. And other leaders will feel free to push you around.

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abe October 29, 2009 at 07:24

“It’s embarrassing.”

Not after the alpha-male that was GW.

“The leader of the US should act stronger than other men purely by his stronger position. You know you have a Jimmy Carter on your hands when they don’t. And other leaders will feel free to push you around.”

Obama doesn’t have to put on a false bravado front because of his stronger position.

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dragnet October 29, 2009 at 07:27

So let me get this straight. The guy who is leader of the most awesome global hegemon ever in recorded history, commander-in-chief of the most fearsome combined fighting forces to ever take the field of battle, wields control of world destroying nuclear capability with the touch of a button, sits astride a 14 trillion dollars economy, moves and shakes crowd with the mere baritone of his voice—this is now considered “beta” on this website. Meanwhile, slick looking Guido’s whose countries are at best middling powers with declining demographics, stagnant economies and hollowed out militaries now vague shells of even their colonial might are considered “alphas” because they sit up really straight in their chairs—these conclusions arrived at from an expert “analysis” of still photos. Are you fucking shitting me?

Are. You. Fucking. Shitting. Me?

This is easily the stupidest article I have yet read on this site. All this article demonstrates is that the guy who wrote it has absolutely no idea how geopolitics really works, how and for what reasons power is attained, wielded and by what means it is sustained.

Good fucking grief.

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Chuck October 29, 2009 at 07:39

onestdv:

“Voting for Obama should be cause for banishment from this site”

voting for obama? i *voted* for the guy. i also fucked a fat chick several years back and cried in front of my girlfriend once. people aren’t allowed mistakes in their lives all of a sudden?

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Chuck October 29, 2009 at 07:47

dragnet:

“this is now considered “beta” on this website.”

Complete disconnect on your part. Yes, he has all of those things at his disposal, but in interpersonal relationships, Obama is greater beta as Novaseeker pointed out. The problem is he’s in a room full of uber-alphas. Their agenda likely gets discussed, their issues placated to more than should be warranted by the facts.

“Meanwhile, slick looking Guido’s whose countries are at best middling powers with declining demographics, stagnant economies and hollowed out militaries now vague shells of even their colonial might are considered “alphas” because they sit up really straight in their chairs”

All the worse for our team. Obama should have politically pimp-slapped Fredo for his outward displays of aggression (Michael did it in The Godfather). Obama is scared to make a strong move. Its actually quite good that he doesn’t try to do so if he’s aware of his true beta nature.

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 07:48

Anyone who thinks that the personality of leaders does not matter in terms of diplomacy, geopolitics and international relations, generally, is just really quite ignorant of reality. It matters, and quite a bit. Look at Jimmy Carter. Obama is not *quite* so bad as Carter was, but he’s outclassed internationally. The last U.S. President who was not outclassed in this way was Clinton, by the way, not W.

And as for voting for Obama — remember, gentlemen, that those of you who love Obama are in the same league as Ms. Magazine, who rightly dubbed him the first feminist president. He is clearly the most anti-male person ever to be elected to the office, and the feminists know it. If you don’t realize that, you’re just being stupid.

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someone October 29, 2009 at 07:54

“Okay everyone, Obama is a beta male.

Why are we using “beta” as an insult?”

There is a more pressing issue: what does the word mean? Since everyone has their own personal definition, what exactly are we even talking about?

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JohnnyBravo October 29, 2009 at 08:03

One has to differentiate between the kinds of alpha that Berlusconi and Putin exhibit though.

Berlusconi strikes me as more of a Lothario, in his younger years he probably was chased by a girl with a rolling pin in her hand yelling “bastardo” at him every other weekend. The typical, laid-back mediterranean player who doesn’t take anything too seriously and just enjoys life.

Putin, however, strikes me more as a man who has that lunatic calm to him, developed after years of seeing the craziest shit while he was with the KGB. His body language and posture wouldn’t change one iota, whether he were talking to the hottest woman alive, or heading a prisoner exchange with the CIA/Mossad/whatever and have dozens of machine guns and pistols pointed at him. He strikes me as the stereotypical “hardass” officer who calmly saunters around the battlefield while explosions go off left and right, barking orders so they can be heard over the bullets whizzing past him.

Silvio will do your wife, but Putin will most likely do your wife and then fuck you up if you have any objections to it.

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Eumaios October 29, 2009 at 08:05

Novaseeker: “Look at Jimmy Carter. Obama is not *quite* so bad as Carter was”

Not yet. Just wait until Obama openly weeps while giving his resignation speech.

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 08:05

I would agree generally with that differentiation between the two. I think Berlusconi is rather ruthless in his own way — remember, he is a self-made media tycoon — but that is pretty different from Putin’s KGB background.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 08:06

For FUCKS SAKE GET OVER IT! Your team lost and this guy is the QB for the winning team. He’s better than you. He has infinite more power, money, prestige, status, education, supporters, melanin and Peace Prizes than you, all of your readers and all of your leaders put together. Him. By himself.

This guy came out of nowhere with a hybrid terrorist-dictator name and complexion. A horse for a wife and NO political experience and the big bad Alpha/conservative/white power machine couldn’t hold him back. It’s understandable to throw rocks at the thrown but, it only shows your sour grapes and your own betaness. This whining and crying about his posture and his betaness is well…beta. Medvebeta, Putincorpse, Silvoghetti, and Merkelbear all wish they could wield half as much power as Obama.

Say what you will but doing what he did in the manner and swiftness in which he did it is as Alpha as it gets! Plus, let us not forget. He is 47 years old! A baby in political years. You whining nerds are gonna be pissing and moaning for the next twenty years. Keep crying sissies, it goes to show most of you don’t know a thing about Game. This guy is Gaming the entire FUCKING WORLD and you pansies are worried about not getting rejected from some slut! Open your eyes and take notes about real Game. The transfer of power Game. That’s what it is about. Learning from those who know. Whether you like him or not. He knows thing or ten about taking power and making it his. That is all.

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Eumaios October 29, 2009 at 08:07

“There is a more pressing issue: what does the word [beta] mean?”

Words don’t own meanings. We use words as handles to swing around ideas. We act on the belief that other people are using words to swing around ideas sufficiently similar to our own that communication is possible.

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Eumaios October 29, 2009 at 08:08

I accuse Slickback of being a satirical sock puppet for someone with a sense of humor.

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Chuck October 29, 2009 at 08:11

Slickback:

that tirade was adorable.

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JohnnyBravo October 29, 2009 at 08:15

A category 5 hulkout.

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Puma October 29, 2009 at 08:24

I liked dragnet’s tirade better. I half expected him to grab a baseball bat and go Joe Pesche on everyone. Now THAT would be alpha ;-)

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Puma October 29, 2009 at 08:25

… presidential politics isn’t my strong suit I am afraid.

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someone October 29, 2009 at 08:32

Sure, Eumaios, but words need to have some established meanings. “Beta” does not currently have a widely accepted meaning, so when you say “Bob is beta” you are not really saying anything.

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Eumaios October 29, 2009 at 08:41

“‘Beta’ does not currently have a widely accepted meaning, so when you say ‘Bob is beta’ you are not really saying anything.”

It is a growing problem of this community. Game, alpha, and beta mean wildly different things even among those on the same side.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 08:43

I’m with Someone on this. Let’s define beta. It couldn’t be (as some have said) how many women want to sleep with you or your ability to get tail that is much younger than you. It has to be more than that.

Ok, is Tom Hanks beta? Will Smith? Steve Jobs? Andre Agassi? Oprah? LOL! That pimped out pimp with literally a fleet of women who sell their bodies and give HIM the money? Is Rush alpha? What about Keith Olberman? What about that douche Bill Maher? See, someone could make an alpha/beta argument for all of those guys. What say you O Spearhead community?

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dragnet October 29, 2009 at 08:43

Agree wholeheartedly with Slickback.

I’m sorry, but whatever your political beliefs, Obama as “beta” just doesn’t add up.

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Arbitrary October 29, 2009 at 08:59

I’ve always understood the alpha/beta distinction as the difference between appearing dominant and submissive. A person can be submissive and charismatic, and thus still succeed in politics, but it seems a serious liability in terms of diplomatic debate.

Of course, to some extent, my Akbar sense is tingling in categorizing the current president as beta…we haven’t seen the results of enough negotiations in which he was involved yet to say for certain how he behaves behind closed doors. That said, almost all of the president’s body language that I have ever seen has appeared submissive (or beta, or whatever else we decide to call it), but there have been a few hints that it might, conceivably, have been an act (the withering glare he gave Biden for joking about the oath, for example).

In short, I’m going with (1) too little data to tell for certain, but (2) definitely putting on a beta public face.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 09:32

Again, some of you must live in a bubble. He is a black man in America. He has to play nice, he,s not like the majority. He’s getting what he wants from people who don’t want to give it to him. I don’t know where you are from but where I’m from, that’s called Game.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 09:34

“I’ve always understood the alpha/beta distinction as the difference between appearing dominant and submissive. A person can be submissive and charismatic, and thus still succeed in politics, but it seems a serious liability in terms of diplomatic debate.

Of course, to some extent, my Akbar sense is tingling in categorizing the current president as beta…we haven’t seen the results of enough negotiations in which he was involved yet to say for certain how he behaves behind closed doors. That said, almost all of the president’s body language that I have ever seen has appeared submissive (or beta, or whatever else we decide to call it), but there have been a few hints that it might, conceivably, have been an act (the withering glare he gave Biden for joking about the oath, for example).

In short, I’m going with (1) too little data to tell for certain, but (2) definitely putting on a beta public face.”

I agree completely with the above.

Also, most Alphas I knew growing up were dudes too stupid to realize they weren’t the shit. Guys with low self awareness and high narcisisim. Shame women took that undeserved confidence as something legitimate. Things do change as boys grow into men however, and this stuff becomes more complex than just Highschool Alpha dominance.

The problem with being Alpha, is that in the past, it was a huge risk. It was a huge bullseye on your forehead. A pretender would likely be killed or at least taken down a few notches by any real Alphas around. Now we can all pretend to be Alphas in order to “game”. Why not, we are all safe from violence (for the most part) and because we live nomadic lives were reputations don’t stick or matter as much, we are free to reinvent ourselves. A true Alpha in the past however, and I mean hunter gatherer/Roman/Medievel times, will know when to hide or down play his Alphaness, as there is always someone more Alpha, someone equally Alpha, or someone looking to become Alpha by taking down an Alpha. I’m sure we could open this debate up farther, but acting Alpha is not a sign of Alphaness as much as simply being Alpha is. Its more than an attitude, its an awareness of attitudes. Yours and those around you. No one exists in a vacum. Flexibility, nimbleness, tactics and strategy, are all required to maintain Alpha status. Game is more than just self confidence. There are intricate tactics and counter tactics, all based in a complex persnonalized strategy system, with confidence simply being step one.

Obama is Alpha.

Laugh, mock, disagree with his policies, but watch, take note of what I said, and lets compare notes 7 years from now. Obama is a poker player. Being Alpha in poker doesn’t mean acting Alpha, it means acting Beta with an Alpha hand, and Alpha with a Beta hand. Politics is poker.

Obama’s playing tight right now, because he realizes he’s new to the game. He’s getting a feel for the table. He’ll open up when he’s ready, and when he does, his chip stack will be so huge (political capital) that he’s going to take it all down by pushing the other players around. I’m sure you right leaning folks will bitch then about him bull dozering his policies through, both international and national. Of course, sense he is good natured, instead of corrupt and immoral, and a master, he’ll leave everyone else at the table with enough chips so that they have the illusion of being semi-winners also. Yes, I believe he’s that fucking good.

Bush was like the Alphas in Highschool. His bravado was based on a lack of self-awareness and narcisism.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 09:37

“Slickback October 29, 2009 at 9:32 am
Again, some of you must live in a bubble. He is a black man in America. He has to play nice, he,s not like the majority. He’s getting what he wants from people who don’t want to give it to him. I don’t know where you are from but where I’m from, that’s called Game.’

Dittoed.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 09:44

I’m really enjoying the “you nerds are whiners and pussies because you haven’t learned to love the socialist matriarchy” angle in some of the arguments above.

High heel lickers.

Obama rode the votes and sympathies of women to office, and he acts as their proxy.

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Arbitrary October 29, 2009 at 09:47

Feminists got what they wanted from people (and then asked for more, and more, and more), many of whom did not want to give it to them…I would not call what they did Game.

And being a racial minority in America is not the debilitating disadvantage you’re making it out to be. Being poor in America can be a significant disadvantage, and I certainly have some respect for the man to the extent that he succeeded despite an economic disadvantage. But race relations in the West in the last 30 years are better than they were at any other place or time in human history.

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Steezer October 29, 2009 at 09:50

This is pretty funny. But:

Our commander-in-chief is the least alpha of any of the leaders of our former enemies from World War II and the Cold War: Germany, Italy, and Russia.

Aren’t you forgetting someone/some member of the Axis? Japan, anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Hatoyama — or, if he’s too new — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taro_Aso

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Prime October 29, 2009 at 09:51

I hope you aren’t right, Jabherwochie, and you have to acknowledge what Obama did–game female sympathies to become president. Should (Can) the Right do the same? How would they do so with single females? Is that possible?

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dragnet October 29, 2009 at 09:55

“…you have to acknowledge what Obama did–game female sympathies to become president.”

WTF? He didn’t “game female sympathies to become president”. The guy is a liberal, andthe majority of women are liberals. That’s why they voted for him.

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menareangrynow October 29, 2009 at 10:35

It’s seems you’ve really overcomplicated this.

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Peter October 29, 2009 at 10:49

Obama looks awkward in the photo with Putin because the chairs on which they’re sitting have very short legs and Obama is about eight inches taller than Putin.

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globalman October 29, 2009 at 10:50

Just by the way, if you look at the photo of reagan shaking gorbachevs hand they are actually using a masonic handshake. Tony Blair also used a masonic handshake when he met the pope.

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Hope October 29, 2009 at 10:52

The alpha/beta distinction made in this post is quite juvenile. I thought you men were past grade school already?

Let’s look at Silvio Berlusconi as a person, shall we? Is he really an example that all men should strive to emulate? A shining role model who gives Italy a great reputation? A gentleman whom a lady would wish to accompany?

“Silvio Berlusconi has an extensive record of criminal allegations, including mafia collusion, false accounting, tax fraud, corruption and bribery of police officers and judges. Berlusconi has been tried in Italian courts in several cases.”

No.

Stop glorifying narcissistic, self-serving and self-absorbed “players” and calling them “alpha” over and over again, in the process telling the world that this is the human ideal men should be striving toward. I thought you men’s rights activists wanted to stop the race to the bottom? Why, then, hold this scumbag of an immoral politician on a pedestal?

Stop it.

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Todd White October 29, 2009 at 10:53

Obama is not a Beta, sorry. He’s an Alpha. If y’all define Alpha as someone who 1) makes “ginas tingle” and 2) earns the respect of other men for that very reason, then Obama is an “Alpha.” And I say that as someone who thinks Obama will be one of the worst Presidents in U.S. history.

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Hope October 29, 2009 at 10:55

All the photos and reels showed him standing off to the side or by the wall, a complete nonentity wallflower

So-called “beta” men are men of honor, dignity, respect and masculine pride. They don’t cheat on their wives, they don’t try to screw your daughters, and they are builders, innovators, inventors, scientists, the people who have sweated and toiled to create such a great nation. You ostracize the “nerds” and “wallflowers” of American society in favor of sports jocks, shock jocks, and greedy womanizers at your own peril.

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globalman October 29, 2009 at 10:57

“dragnet October 29, 2009 at 7:27 am”
Obama controls nothing. He is a puppet. Indeed he is a stupid puppet who can barely talk without a teleprompter. I did not think it possible for the next US president to be dumber than Bush but in Obama they have got someone dumber than the average rock.

Try searching youtube for ‘obama teleprompter’.

I do not see Obama as a ‘beta’. Obama is a puppet…he is not in control of his opinions…he’s zeta if that exists…He is one of the dumbest people I have ever seen trying to speak in public.

Anyone you see out in front of a camera has very, very little influence on anything. They are the puppets, the pawns, the expendable pieces on the board. How often have any of you seen a Rothchild? A Warhberg? A Hapsberg? These are the families really running things. Even the Rockefellers are fronts for the Rothchilds.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 11:05

Hope –

Quiet, woman. Go back to your needlepoint.

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PA October 29, 2009 at 11:07

the big bad Alpha/conservative/white power machine couldn’t hold him back.

Yes. McCain was so tough on him. On a serious note, the toughest mainstream opposition Obama got was in the form of circumspect comments made by Bill Clinton during the primaries.

He’ll open up when he’s ready, and when he does, his chip stack will be so huge (political capital)

He’s losing political capital big time. The far lefties are mad he’s not ending the war, the mainstream left is impatient with his low poll numbers and inability to push things through, and the right is becoming encouraged by his failures. The Nobel was in many ways a shark-jump moment; most of media and liberals cringed at the absurdity of the whole thing.

By the way, Obama could have scored serious alpha points had he declined to accept it.

And I say that as someone who thinks Obama will be one of the worst Presidents in U.S. history.

He’s getting nothing accomplished. This puts him on pace to be the best American president since Coolidge.

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Ferdinand Bardamu October 29, 2009 at 11:15

Hope:

Stop glorifying narcissistic, self-serving and self-absorbed “players” and calling them “alpha” over and over again, in the process telling the world that this is the human ideal men should be striving toward. I thought you men’s rights activists wanted to stop the race to the bottom? Why, then, hold this scumbag of an immoral politician on a pedestal?

When women give their love to men like Berlusconi, men will strive to emulate guys like Berlusconi. It’s that simple.

Hope, stop being a hypocrite and take the beam out of your own eye before criticizing the mote in ours.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:18

“He’s losing political capital big time. ”

For now.

He’s not a liberal as you all think either. Healthcare reform is not that left field, its been an issue for over 30 years. Look at some of the “socialistic” policies republicans have implemented. Obama is pragmatic.

Someone save this thread, and bring it back in 7 years. He will go down as a hero. The zeitgeist won’t allow him to fail. He would have to make horrible blunders, worse than getting us bogged down in two unnecessary wars and cutting taxes for the rich while our economy goes down the tube , “Cough, Bush, Cough!”

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:19

He’s not as liberal…. is what I meant to say.

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PA October 29, 2009 at 11:21

I’ll give Sara Palin credit for marking Obama as an alien figure in the popular consciousness when she ridiculed the “community organizer” thing during her candidacy acceptance speech.

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Hope October 29, 2009 at 11:22

When women give their love to men like Berlusconi, men will strive to emulate guys like Berlusconi. It’s that simple.

I don’t give my love to such men. Yes, some women or perhaps even many women do, but it does not mean that such men should be admired and held up as an example worthy of emulation, or to have such glowing praises written of him: “The man is so alpha they’re thinking of changing the first letter of the Greek alphabet to Silvio.”

Hope, stop being a hypocrite and take the beam out of your own eye before criticizing the mote in ours.

I have, for my entire life, been friends and advocating for the nerds, the outcasts and the downtrodden men who are not “alpha.” I myself am a nerd, and I have never given any time of day to such immoral, selfish men as being held up here as role models. You can call me a “hypocrite” all you’d like, but I am far more in favor, far more appraising, far more loving towards nerdy and wallflower men than you appear to be.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:25

@ Hope-

I am a Geek, an Alpha Geek. I am a product of my environment. I adapted in order to survive. I did so with out knowing about Game decades ago, even though what I realized is greatly reflected in Game. I didn’t want to become an Alpha, as I was a sweet, thoughtful, “nice guy”. I am the monster that women created. Now, I not only survive, but I thrive. Its easy being immoral. Thank your sisters for forcing me to become so.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:26

I’m willing to revert to my natural, kinder ways if Feminist want to have a truce…hahaaha!!! As if.

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Kimskinovgorod October 29, 2009 at 11:32

A lot of women seems to forget, that we didn´t come off the assembly line in this model. Women made us into this. Now enjoy or shut the fuck up !

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:34

“Prime October 29, 2009 at 9:51 am
I hope you aren’t right, Jabherwochie, and you have to acknowledge what Obama did–game female sympathies to become president. Should (Can) the Right do the same? How would they do so with single females? Is that possible?’

The right is going to have to reinvent itself. Hopefully with a heavy MRA/Family values approach that drops the religous pretense, and stops favoring big corporations over the little guy, and actually walks the small government talk. They will be wondering the wilderness for the next 7 years while they figure it out. The current infighting is simply the opening dialouge of a much needed debate. Demographics have changed. The GOP will have to also.

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Hope October 29, 2009 at 11:35

Jabherwochie, I was a geek, an outcast among women. My own female relatives told me I was worthless and ugly. But why should I let others’ nasty behavior change me into a mean, vindictive person?

I am engaged to a sweet, thoughtful and kind man who genuinely strives towards goodness and integrity. He didn’t take the “easy” way of being immoral because it would be a betrayal against his very core.

A man can be masculine without being a lying, cheating opportunist. A woman can be feminine without being a self-entitled, gold-digging harpy. He and I are not naive about the nasty, manipulative and immoral sides of humanity, but we certainly do not glorify such tendencies.

Anyway, I’ll shut up and go back to the kitchen.

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McThree October 29, 2009 at 11:41

I had to laugh at Slickback’s rant about Obama doing it all on his own. The man is a fucking puppet. A shill. His best friends are all big bankers and wall street criminals. His decisions to bail them out on our dime and the fact that they’re all in his cabinet prove that without a doubt.

You must still be high on all the “hope and change” campaign rhetoric. Wake up fool.

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dragnet October 29, 2009 at 11:44

“His decisions to bail them out on our dime and the fact that they’re all in his cabinet prove that without a doubt.”

You do realize that the TARP bailout was done by Bush and passed before Obama was elected, right??

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Tupac Chopra October 29, 2009 at 11:44

Hope:

Stop glorifying narcissistic, self-serving and self-absorbed “players” and calling them “alpha” over and over again, in the process telling the world that this is the human ideal men should be striving toward.

I’m sure this was directed at all the women who throw themselves at such men, right? Cuz I sure as hell hope you’re not directing it at the men who are doing what they have to do in order to adept to this brave new world women have created.

Women are the gatekeepers to sex, and hence, they call the tune.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 11:45

He didn’t just get feminist to vote for him. Are you crazy, did you not watch that marathon of a campaign? He won almost EVERY demographic. A whole hellava lot of men voted for him and will again.

Chuck, you will vote for him again because this shit will look drastically different in the summer of 2012 than it does now. The unemployment rate will have settled down somewhere around 7 or 8%, Guantanamo will have been closed, Cuba will be open, the stock market will be back to some semblance of normalcy, quasi-Universal Healthcare will be passed, we will for all intents and purposes be out of Iraq and maybe even on our way out of Afganistan, weed will be quasi-legal, plus a bunch of little things he’ll be able to hang his hat on. On the other hand the Republicans will be the same. It’ll be Guiliani, Newt, Sarah Palin, Bobby Jindal, and nobody. You won’t have a choice. You’ll look back at the cluster G.W. made of the country and you’ll see this guy didn’t make it worse and actually helped get us back to some semblence of respect in the world and you’ll vote for him again. It’s easy. The Repubs have NO ONE to run against him and ZERO new ideas. The world is a’changin. Call me in 2016!

If Roissy, RooshV, Dave from Hawaii and Mystery are Alphas then Obama is Uber-Alpha on speed. Did you blind haters see the crowd he got to come see him in Germany, before he won the election? How about in Denver at the convention? How about the inaugaration? Did you see the jubilation around the entire FUCKING globe when he won? I could feel the ginas tingling through my tv!

A little sage advice for you newbies to Game. “Don’t hate the player, hate the Game”. Awareness is next to godliness, translated that means= Game recognize Game. That is all.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:51

“But why should I let others’ nasty behavior change me into a mean, vindictive person?”

Alphas aren’t mean and vindictive. They simply get what they want, one way or another. Its not about allowing yourself to express your “dark side” or about following your baser instincts, its about being in control of your emotions, both good and bad, in order to achieve success, whatever your goal is. Getting women just seems to be the focus of modern “Game” right now, but many principles of Game could apply to buisness, politics, or sport even.

“A man can be masculine without being a lying, cheating opportunist.”

No one is arguing with you, because masculinity is something each individual male has to define for himself. Being a man means being the shit at what you do. If being nice is counter productive to gaining female respect and attention, then be the best not-nice person you can be. If lying and cheating and acting on opportunities is how best to achieve that, and I’m not saying it is at all, well, I’m sorry girls don’t go for nice guys then…until they realize they want a life raft later in life.

“He didn’t take the “easy” way of being immoral because it would be a betrayal against his very core. ”

I tried a lot of different ways, but only when I stopped caring about female opinion did female opinion change about me. Don’t blame me for what works, and sorry that my core is adaptable and continuing evolving. I’ll grow up when I die.

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OneSTDV October 29, 2009 at 11:55

You must take into account Obama’s position. Even a hardcore “real man” could be undone by the pressure of the Presidency. It’s possible in regular life, Obama would an alpha, but being put in these situations makes him a beta. It’s almsot implausible that anyone could not be affected by being in these high pressure situations.

Beta or alpha distinctions are sometimes relative to context.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 11:55

McThree, you are an revisionist idiot. Bush and his cronies, i.e. Paulson, and crew rammed through that bailout without a fraction of the debate that’s going on with healthcare. Obama wasn’t even in office. Don’t lay this bailout on Obama. The disaster began on W’s watch. The bailout happened on W’s watch. Two unnecessary wars began on W’s watch. The 19 fuckers that flew the planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was wholly funded by the Saudis, W’s BEST friends and trained almost entirely in Afganistan, a place where we allocated a fraction of the resources we did to Iraq. I’m sorry, why are we in Iraq again? Don’t be a revisionist. Obama is no saint but he’s better than the last guy. He’s better than anyone on the other side. He doesn’t have to be the best ever, he just has to be better than whatever tool the Repubs put up next time.

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ray October 29, 2009 at 11:57

good body language analysis here, pretty durn accurate

obie isn’t a betaman tho, he’s just a boy, completely dependent upon, and submissive to, female “authority” . . . the perfect-storm male for our matriarchy

he’s a subtle boy, tho — yesterday he signed landmark “hate crime” legislation, cleverly folded-in to a defense bill (a “must-pass” in washingtonese)

this legislation is v important to any individual or group opposing the matriarchy; it will be used to intimidate, silence, and punish guys who dare to Offend Females by not instantly obeying their every command, or by disagreeing with them (which, to the hive-mind, is a type of violence)

that is it’s purpose and there is no other

voting for ObieBoy was voting for the continued codification of the destruction of maleness

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:58

@ Hope-

Rarely can women be real Geeks. Geekiness is a male thought process of high systemizing and low socializing skills. For a girl to be a Geek she would have to have Aspergers or Autism. Any geeky girl would inherently find Feminism stupid, as it is not logical, and geeks are overly logical to a fault. Don’t try to sympathize with me. We are outcast for different reasons. I was smarter than everyone else. You were you. I have a legitimate reason to be offended for being ostracized for what I consider an adaptive mutation. We need more people like me.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 11:59

“I had to laugh at Slickback’s rant about Obama doing it all on his own. The man is a fucking puppet. A shill. His best friends are all big bankers and wall street criminals. His decisions to bail them out on our dime and the fact that they’re all in his cabinet prove that without a doubt. ”

Bush started the bail out you idiot. Obama had no choice but to carry through. In for a penny, in for a pound.

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 12:02

Yup, all hail Obama.

Repeat after me: All Hail Obama! All Hail Obama! All Hail Obama!

It’s pathetic seeing men line up like fucking lemmings behind the most feminist president in the history of the United States.

But, hey, this is why there is no MRM, and never will be, as I said in the other thread. In the meantime, All Hail Obama!

And, no I am not a Republican, so don’t even go there.

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Rollory October 29, 2009 at 12:03

“The unemployment rate will have settled down somewhere around 7 or 8%, Guantanamo will have been closed, Cuba will be open, the stock market will be back to some semblance of normalcy, quasi-Universal Healthcare will be passed, we will for all intents and purposes be out of Iraq and maybe even on our way out of Afganistan, weed will be quasi-legal, plus a bunch of little things he’ll be able to hang his hat on”

And pigs will fly and unicorns will crap skittles and hot babes will all want ME.

You’re funny. Don’t stop posting.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 12:08

Trust but verify.

“he’s a subtle boy, tho — yesterday he signed landmark “hate crime” legislation, cleverly folded-in to a defense bill (a “must-pass” in washingtonese)”

I would like to know more about this. I’m not so proud of Obama that I don’t fear the Feminist influence on him, or that I won’t turn on him if he gives Feminist substantually more than lip service.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 12:22

In the end, I’m nobody’s blind follower, but I give respect were respect is due.

It doesn’t mean I’m not watching him.

“It’s pathetic seeing men line up like fucking lemmings behind the most feminist president in the history of the United States.”

Pathetic is a strong word, Novaseeker. I deal with the reality in front of me, and that is a two party system. Its a value judgment of one versus the other. Obama has bad qualities and bad ideas, we all do. But in a kingdom of blind men, I’ll put my support behind the one-eyed king. Thats just pragmatic.

Even if Obama sends us down the Feminist rabbit hole, good! This shit has to get worse in order to wake up the masses! I’d rather the pendulum swing to its precipice and force this issue onto the national debate, than continuing to wallow around in the status-quo, philosophising about change on the internet. Catastrophies are great oppurtunities for change, sometimes the only oppurtunity, so every Obama hater might as well give him there vote, because no republican is going to risk loosing even more of the female vote by supporting the MRM.

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 12:22

if he gives Feminist substantually more than lip service.

Huh? He already has. You’re aware, aren’t you, that much of the stimulus funds were redirected away from sectors where men lost jobs and toward sectors that had grown jobs, but were female dominated, at the demand of feminist groups? That was huge, and it was done to kow-tow to feminist groups –> something he agreed to do in January during the transition before he was even installed.

Much more than lip service. But hey, who cares, right? Bush was a terrible President, so when Obama bends men over and fucks them up the ass, we just don’t care, right, because at least he isn’t Bush.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 12:28

Don’t let the smooth taste fool you. I think MRM will truly be around for a long while and is needed now more than ever. The family law machine IS powerful and anti-male. Game will get you more money, power and tail. I believe in all of that. But, I started commenting because the post is stupid. It proves nothing. It doesn’t prove Putin is an alpha (the fact he’s KGB, an Oligarch, and a all around bad motherf*ck*r is why he’s alpha) and it doesn’t prove Obama is beta (I’ve pom pom’d enough for him today).

We men are doing exactly what it takes to move the MRM in the right direction. Treating women as equals. They don’t like it, so! I don’t like it that women rarely wear dresses and have the balls to wear men’s suits. Women are already changing or shall I say reverting back to their natural state. The state we are in is un-natural. Men should not have to pay for some slut for the rest of her life just because he married her, she got fat and he left. If she wants to get fat she should also, simultaneously be honing her money making skills to take care of herself when she’s alone with her bon bons.

All we have to do is turn it up a notch and I think THIS SITE is one of the best vehicles for that, if the writers can just refrain from ad hoc attacks that make them look like petty babies.

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 12:32

“Huh? He already has. You’re aware, aren’t you, that much of the stimulus funds were redirected away from sectors where men lost jobs and toward sectors that had grown jobs, but were female dominated, at the demand of feminist groups? That was huge, and it was done to kow-tow to feminist groups –> something he agreed to do in January during the transition before he was even installed.”

Point taken. I see it as Feminist having too much political influence inside the Democratic party. Sometimes arms are twisted and hands are tied. But thats wishful rationalizing, and could or could not be true. But point taken. I am not immovable in my position, just standing firm. I always encourge people to try to change my mind. It either makes me smarter, or right to begin with.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 12:33

RE: The hate crime bill, it’s a leftist thought policing measure (as all “anti-hate” legislation ultimately is). The recent one makes gives both sexual orientation and “gender expression” protected minority status.

So basically, if you beat up a guy in a tutu and call him a fag, you have now committed a “hate crime.” Gender expression is a near meaningless feminist phrase…it’s terrible law because it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean. But Obama was happy to sign it to appease the Nancy Pelosi San Francisco left.

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JohnnyBravo October 29, 2009 at 12:44

“Obama is no saint but he’s better than the last guy.”

How? I hate neocons and their cronies with a passion.

This does not mean I will cheer on the next best idiot who shows up and is outwardly less gung-ho about what Bush stood for, but then forms a government with the same old assholes who ruined the US.

If you think Goldman Sachs is no longer in charge of US fiscal policy, or that AIPAC no more decides where US soldiers will be sent, you are a tool.

Obama is the same as Bush, and given some time he will make equivalent mistakes (war in Afghanistan and Iraq = war in Pakistan and Iran, mortgage subsidies for illegal immigrants leading to economic crisis = universal healthcare [also for illegals] prolonging economic crisis).

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Jabherwochie October 29, 2009 at 12:46

“so when Obama bends men over and fucks them up the ass, we just don’t care, right, because at least he isn’t Bush.”

Sadly, thats how much I hate Republicans, the party of rich-religous-torturers. Something that has always bothered me is the wealth disparity in this country. When real wages (inflation adjusted) have remained stagnant since 1973, when productivity has sky rocketed, I fear a party that wants to cut taxes for rich people. I’m a class warfare supporter, because the war has already been started, by rich people on the middle class. Yes, Obama is a Feminist puppet, but there is no political party standing against Feminism, when the Democratic party does try to curtail the abuse and corruption of the top 1%. Yes, my political interests are in indirect opposition to each other, but life, especially politics, is messy. Like I said, I’m listening to your ideas, and if you are that sure of them, time and logic will convince me of them. All it takes of your patience.

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 12:48

So basically, if you beat up a guy in a tutu and call him a fag, you have now committed a “hate crime.” Gender expression is a near meaningless feminist phrase…it’s terrible law because it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean. But Obama was happy to sign it to appease the Nancy Pelosi San Francisco left.

Basically correct. “Gender expression” is so wide you could drive an army through it. It’s dumb idea, but one that HRC has had on its list for a while, and they’ve been crawling all over him to throw them a bone since the inauguration. It’s ironic, really, because guys like Andrew Sullivan — when he pretended to have principles, I guess — were actually against hate crimes legislation, but he doesn’t seem to have been against this.

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McThree October 29, 2009 at 12:52

Slickback, you are right about at least one thing. Obama is in fact gaming the whole fucking world. And his nutsack sack firmly lodged in your mouth.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 13:10

@ McThree…There you go with off the wall personal attacks. It’s okay. The truth hurts doesn’t it. It even burns a little! Doesn’t change the fact that you are acting like a scorned woman. He is the President of the United States for the next 7 years and there is nothing you can do about it but whine and resort to homoerotic insults.

If you weren’t such a woman you’d be able to appreciate true Game. You don’t have to always show your hand. Nuiance goes a long way. Baby steps, baby steps.

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Alkibiades October 29, 2009 at 13:39

Slickback said: “He is the President of the United States for the next 7 years and there is nothing you can do about it but whine and resort to homoerotic insults.”

Really, let’s be accurate here. He’s president for 3 more years with the possibility of getting a four year extension.

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Monty October 29, 2009 at 13:41

You’re all forgetting one thing. Obama is just a puppet groomed and controlled by others, sort of like Medvedev, only not as macho lol
And Jonny Bravo: You may actually want to read a bit about him and his background. I don’t normally use Wiki but you can get an idea here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi
If you’re an American you also probably have a very warped picture of Italy based on what you see in the US which is composed of beaten Sicilian peasants (Gamma men). Silvio is from Milan and is a Lombard from the north where most of the population of Italy resides. I can guarantee you that no woman has ever chased him with a rolling pin. So stop believing what you see in Italian comedy films or in the US lol

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Max October 29, 2009 at 13:53

For what it’s worth, I agree on this point:
“A man can be masculine without being a lying, cheating opportunist. A woman can be feminine without being a self-entitled, gold-digging harpy. . .

Anyway, I’ll shut up and go back to the kitchen.”

Talk all the “Game” theory you want, but there are guys who occasionally play it a little too fast and loose with the “my dick is so big everyone should worship it” attitude. Those guys forget that being alpha around the women-folk is not the same thing as being alpha around Men. They look awfully fucking beta when they’re bleeding all over the front steps of some shit-hole bar.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 13:56

You know Max, I just thought that clarification was needed. Getting girls to bat their eyelashes at you is not quite the same as dominating men. That’s part of the confusion here, I think. Obama looks like a beta beside dominant men. His affect on women is a different thing.

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Dave from Hawaii October 29, 2009 at 13:57

Bush started the TARP bailouts…Obama continued it.

Bush started the Iraq war…Obama continues it. He pulled a bunch of troops out of Iraq…and replaced them with an equivalent amount of private contractors.

Bush started the Afghanistan war…Obama is escalating it.

Where’s this change you useful idiots that support Obama are wasting your time hoping for?

Bush – Obama. Both are CFR – puppets. Not a whit of difference between the two. Both are nothing more than teleprompter reading puppets designed to fool their base supporters while the march towards a one-world communitarian goverment is implemented.

Discount or ignore the conspiracy theory angle – one thing is true – both parties are bought and paid for by the banksters that run the Federal Reserve.

As for the alpha beta distinctions?

Obama as “alpha” is purely a media creation. Women that support him get the ‘gina tingles based on ideological stimulus and the effects of the media projecting a larger than life image. If we go by Roissy’s definition of “Alpha” than yes, Obama is an alpha. Plenty of deluded, communitarian/collectivist sheeple women love to fantasize about having sex with Obama.

But in reading his body language in relation to his peers?

Seeing how Michelle talks about him in the media? There are several accounts of Obama being emasculated by Michelle.

It’s rather obvious just who wears the pants in the Obama household…and it ‘aint Barack.

Does that make him ‘beta?’ Does it really matter?

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Max October 29, 2009 at 13:58

@ Jack, Nova, DragNET:

As for Obama being a Beta, and whether or not that has any political relevance, consider the following:

JFK had chronic back problems. He had a hole in his back the size of a fist from multiple spine surgeries. In private he used crutches to alleviate the stress on his body. He was also used a lot of heavy prescription pain medication.

JFK was fairly fucked up by his medication when he met with Kruschev (who LOVED the Bomb, and nuclear politics). He looked like shit, and Kruschev saw it as a sign of weakness. Shortly thereafter Kruschev parked nukes in Cuba.

Disregard how JFK handled the “missile crisis”. There is cause to believe his physical issues influenced Kruschev’s decision to do it.

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McThree October 29, 2009 at 14:03

Slickback, this aint my first rodeo, clown.

The point is he has gamed YOU. You and millions and millions of others. You fell for it. You couldn’t care less about his politics, how he got to the position he’s at, or who’s really benefiting from his policies and decisions. You are his bitch and you love it.

You got played.

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Read my lips October 29, 2009 at 14:09

I think Obama is going to be the President that integrates the U.S. into more of a global one-world government. He is being handled by a whole bunch of very powerful people. I actually think he is very intelligent and charismatic and alpha, in a way, but definately not like the more traditional alpha archetypes like Berlusconi and Putin.

P.S. Fredo looks like he strokes it to a picture of Putin five times a day.

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Alkibiades October 29, 2009 at 14:10

Does it really matter if we ascribe a label? Forget the alpha/beta/omega categories (and the proper term for the lowest rung on the hierarchy is omega, not zeta or gamma). Ultimately these labels are a distraction for the real issue that Chuck is bringing up. Which is, Does Obama exhibit submissive behavior around leaders of other countries? We can argue until the cows come home whether this is a ‘rope-a-dope’ or not, but as I believe Slickback has said, time will tell the tale.

I will also point out that body language experts like Joe Navarro author of ‘What every BODY is saying’ argue that body language trumps verbal communication and will reveal what a person truly feels. The pictures do appear to show that Obama has behaved submissively. Video of these events might shed further light on the inquiry.

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roissy October 29, 2009 at 14:10

obama is an alpha. if for no other reason, the office of the presidency automatically imparts him with the alpha mystique. the question, as chuck wrote, is whether obama is alpha in relation to other world leaders. the evidence compiled here suggests he is not. but before coming to a firm conclusion (and alphas love using turgid words like “firm” that are suggestive of erections) we have to ask if obama is a chamberlain-like yellowbelly by principle, or if he offers limpwristed handshakes because he is beta by nature. if he acts on the principle that hands-across-the world self-flagellating suckup-ery is actually good for america and good for his image personally because that’s what he really believes, then in spirit he is alpha — he is doing what he wants. but if he’s this way because he can’t stop from being rolled by foreign leaders, then he is beta.

come to think of it, even if obama believes in the art of baring the belly in submission on principle, he would still be beta, because betatude is defined as much by behavior as by attitude.

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The Fifth Horseman October 29, 2009 at 14:32

Michelle Obama’s body shape (and size) is just…. unusual.

The nickname that comes to mind is ‘Giganta’.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 14:42

It looks like we are chasing our tails here. These are still photos and even if he is a little soft on the international stage, so. What has hard-core alphadom done for Italy? They are still known for spaghetti and frescos. How about Russia? GTFOH! They’d have to sober up half the country in order to be a threat. Not gonna happen. The challenges for Obama are domestic. Who in the US is alpha enough to take him down? Boehner? Nope. He’s alpha partially because all of his opponents can’t match up.

Now, is he a politician.? You betcha. No better than any of those other hacks on the Hill. He will pander and placate to different groups for different reasons. Not new or novel. We can’t stop this one world order monolith heading our way. Silvio, Putin, Obama, Merkel, Brown, Bush, Reagan, Gorbachev, they are/were all in on it. Complain if you must but it won’t change a thing. Does anyone on this board think McCain/Palin or any other group of Repubs or Dems would even attempt to derail the one money, one world order train that is running right along.

We are here to learn about Game. I’m saying, don’t discount Game when you see it, just because you don’t agree with the persons political beliefs. Knowledge can be gleaned from all sort of sources.

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wow October 29, 2009 at 14:46

Didn’t Obama just get Player of the Week in th NFL? Oh wait…that was the Nobel fucking Prize. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Todd White October 29, 2009 at 14:47

Roissy: “Obama is an alpha.”

TW: I’m glad you agree with me on this. I said back in August that you’re the only guy in the online Game community who truly understands Game.

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Novaseeker October 29, 2009 at 14:53

We are here to learn about Game.

Oh? Where did you get that idea?

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The Fifth Horseman October 29, 2009 at 15:01

Obama IS alpha. Having a weak, leftist worldview that damages the country he really does not care about one bit, does not preclude his personal alphatude.

Berlusconi and Putin do manage to AMOG Obama when they get together. But Obama’s alphatude relative to broader society is definite.

Learn by observing Obama, but use the learnings for better purposes than he has.

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Welmer October 29, 2009 at 15:56

Obama’s alphaness or lack thereof will only matter where our generals and his opposition are concerned. The fight at this point is over money, and we’ll see how he holds the line on that.

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whiskey October 29, 2009 at 15:57

Obama is not a Beta Male.

He is O-M-E-G-A male abroad. This invites attack and contempt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoJtoOqdvxo

Obama bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia. Pathetic.

Obama WILL be “Alpha” against American White guys, who he views as the enemy, and who concede his “Alpha” status due to PC fears: McCain, Brian Williams, etc. But half these guys or more worship him as some sort of “Magical Negro” ala David Ehrenstein’s (a Black LAT writer) article. Chris Matthews “thrill up his leg” (and somewhere else) plus middle aged White Yuppie women writing about their sex dreams about Obama. It is more about the sad nature of them than about Obama. Who reflexively sides with America’s enemies because he wants to rule America as Vizier or Marshall Petain.

Note the video (and the various pics of Sarkozy and company looking at Obama during this escapade and checking out some 17 year old’s ass). They are LAUGHING AT HIM. Obama inspires worship among his SWPL followers who think he is a “magical negro” as seen here:

http://www.91x.com/91xmorningshow/?tag=unicorns
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/05/nude-barack-obama-un.html
http://wildammo.com/2009/07/27/unusual-paintings-of-obama-naked-with-unicorns/

WARNING: may cause vomiting!

Obama is not Alpha because he is not tough. He’s NEVER been challenged. Putin was a hard-core KGB killer. With a brain who rose to the top. That is who he is. Berlusconi is a corrupt (it’s Italy) guy with many connections (it is Italy) to organized crime. He is tough. Hu Jintao survived the Byzantine power-corridors of the Beijing Oligarchy. Fairly tough. Obama is the sexual object of SWPL women and gay men.

He cannot take a punch. FDR battled against polio, Reagan had a knock-around early life, meeting lots of people. Truman served in WWI. Ike was career military. Obama is weak, easily bullied, by foreign leaders who don’t want to have sex with him.

Obama is so weak, he cannot deal with Iran’s nukes (after promising he would stop them). Has to back off on Afghanistan after promising victory. Outsourced Health Care to Pelosi and Reid. Spent a Trillion on economic recovery which went to no one but feminists and Minority corrupt organizations. Called the White Majority “racist” constantly, and has presided over 10%+ unemployment and drip-drip-drip terrorism arrests with a major attack in the works: while waging Jihad against the CIA. The Military despises him for being too weak to stand up to Pelosi and Reid after promising over and over again to get VICTORY in Afghanistan (as recently as April of this year). [Joe Biden does not count -- the man is a long standing joke in Washington who had an aneurysm years ago that left him an idiot. He is the equivalent of the retarded Hapsburg Emperor who bawled during State Dinners "I am the Emperor and I want Noodles!"]

A guy like Ike for example, was Beta. No one ever confused him with Mr. Charisma, and he rose through the ranks as MacArthur’s assistant, for gosh sakes. But Ike was TOUGH, when it counted, and Obama is weak.

Beta does not mean weak and a push-over. Obama is beyond “beta” he is just weak. He made a LOT of promises, explicit ones, he had no intention of keeping and only appeals to women, gays, and non-Whites. His approval rating and power are falling far faster than GWB, and he’s lazier than Bush (playing golf constantly, parties, including one for his Dog with Veal served … for the DOG! during wartime). Obama’s Economic Adviser Summers predicts structural unemployment for ten years or more at ABOVE 10% and perhaps 15% (officially, real numbers being 25%).

Obama’s whole program is “screw White Middle Class people” to benefit Blacks (first), Hispanics, and Single White Women. Who can be peeled off by BNP racial socialism, i.e. simply offer them a better socialist deal. Democracy, Socialism, Multiculturalism — pick any two. Obama’s deficits are exploding, inflation lurking around, the dollar in free-fall, his policies based on racial redistribution of wealth from Whites to Blacks and Hispanics. He is “smart” like former NBC chair Ben Silverman.

Obama appeals to women and gay men (as the pics above show) and SWPL (but I repeat myself) but that is not “Alpha” in the sense of toughness. The ability to intimidate someone into doing something he does not want to do. Being “Alpha” among women and gays works only so long as someone follows polite rules. Even a “beta” can pick and win a fight.

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whiskey October 29, 2009 at 16:09

Let me add, Obama’s weakness can be seen clearly in two areas (and a contrast to Bush’s laziness).

In Health Care, the “crisis” is of too many illegal aliens, nearly all of them Mexicans, who don’t pay for their health care. Obama, instead of doing easily achievable, and satisfying things to the White Majority population, approximately 76% of the US according the US Census Bureau 2005-2007 Community Survey, has chosen a gargantuan and complex one-time monstrosity.

Most people (85%) have health care through insurance, and are moderately happy with it. Obama wants to make it all government run, to cover the 15% that don’t have it, nearly all illegal aliens or poor Blacks. Doing this will require rationing, on a racial basis, discriminating against the White Majority in favor of non-White minorities. Making Health Care akin to the Post Office and DMV combined, rationing it for seniors and those with long-term disabilities.

His payoff is a permanent transfer of wealth through a massive, mostly Black/Gay/Hispanic/Female staff to run this program, along with Affirmative Action to make Black Doctors (now 4% of all Doctors) something like 35% (i.e. lowering standards to pure incompetence). While preserving private medical care for big shots.

It is ultra high risk (most of White America is sure to loathe it and hate paying for say, 40 million Mexicans health care in a deep, lasting depression) while they get nothing but WORSE care than they had before. It is relatively low-payoff, those who benefit already loved him. Machiavelli would have called this stupid.

In Afghanistan, the choice is not between puppies and rainbows. It is between running away, getting beat (there is no other way around it) by AQ and the Taliban, and ceding the nation AND PAKISTAN with 100+ nukes and growing to the two movements, to plot with impunity strikes against the US homeland.

Obama talked tough (mostly lies) and balks at living up to it. Because he is too weak to face down his allies. Bush simply hid, because he was too lazy to explain reality to America and profoundly gay/feminized press living in a fantasy world: modern technology means even failed peoples can kill millions of Americans through nuclear proliferation. America either deters, through killing lots of people, mostly its enemies, in the heart of the Jihad, or gets attacked. Which will guarantee MORE attacks and multiple dead US cities and death tolls in the range of 20 million or more, if NYC’s death is followed by Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, and Boston.

THEN the only way to prevent more attacks is “kill all Muslims.” ALL OF THEM. As an object lesson.

Bush was too lazy to fight with the media and explain reality: technology is a commodity that even failed peoples can buy, to kill millions of Americans (and the fantasy of America as Hermit Kingdom North Korea is just that a fantasy). Obama is too terrified of his Left Wing who he agrees with to fight with them to protect America.

Most of life, and policy is not between fabulous and even better. It is choosing the least sucky alternative. Bush was lazy. Obama, terrified. While Gay/Feminized America lives in a fantasy world of hunky, sparkly vampires, no Jihad nuclear terror, and unicorns and rainbows flying out Obama’s magical negro ass.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 16:10

Well said, whiskey. Couldn’t find a thing to disagree with there.

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Lupo October 29, 2009 at 16:11

“What has hard-core alphadom done for Italy? They are still known for spaghetti and frescos. How about Russia? GTFOH! They’d have to sober up half the country in order to be a threat.”

Italy under Berlusconi has prospered economically and diplomatically; Italy’s greatest leader since Garibaldi, unless you like Mussolini better. Russia? Are you shitting me? Putin not only turned them around economically, punished the scumbuckets looting his country, he even reversed their demographic death spiral. Putin will go down in history as their greatest leader since Alexander Nevsky even if he dies next week.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 16:18

whiskey –

While Gay/Feminized America lives in a fantasy world of hunky, sparkly vampires, no Jihad nuclear terror, and unicorns and rainbows flying out Obama’s magical negro ass.

Fucking laugh out loud funny.

On the last half of that second post, while I agree in theory, I’m more of an isolationist of the “fight wars you can actually win” kind…because what I’d agree is a gay/feminized nation will never support proper nation-building or old-school empire. If we could just beat a country, seize it, make it the 51st state, and dare the rest of the world to bitch about it, I would be all for foreign wars. But right now I’d rather see whoever is really in charge say “fuck the desert,” lock down the borders, deport illegals, and concentrate on defense, tariff the shit out of foreign goods, bring jobs home, and re-build our manufacturing base so we more self-sufficient in 20 years, rather than broken and dependent, which where the current path leads.

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Slickback October 29, 2009 at 16:21

Hmmm, let me see…” only appeals to women, gays, and non-Whites”. Yep, add in the white lib men that will vote for him and you have yourself two terms. You don’t like him clearly but, if he’s as weakknee’d as you make him out to be, who’s better? … “Crickets”

Now, let me deconstruct your argument.
“he cannot deal with Iran’s nukes (after promising he would stop them).” – We ARE NOT the world’s police. This shit has to stop somewhere. What is he supposed to do bomb them? The rest of the world seems fine with it and so am I. Isreal can take care of Iran if they want, not a big deal.

” Has to back off on Afghanistan after promising victory.” WTF is victory? Is that the same as Mission Accomplished? No one can go into a hell hole like Afganistan and “win”.

” Outsourced Health Care to Pelosi and Reid. ” That’s their fucking job. Delegate, they may be weak pussies but, it looks like they are getting it done. Mission Accomplished if you ask me.

“Spent a Trillion on economic recovery which went to no one but feminists and Minority corrupt organizations.” This is just wrong! Most of that money went to cover derivatives outstanding on Wall Street, hardly what I’d call feminist or minority. I know this for a fact.

” Called the White Majority “racist” constantly” Ummm, so! Some of the white majority is racist! You just called him a “magic negro” repeatedly.

“has presided over 10%+ unemployment” He’s been in office less than a year, what the fuck was he supposed to do while the banks were refusing to lend money to businesses from Dec’ 08 until Sept. 09? I don’t even see how this unemployment thing is all his fault.

” and drip-drip-drip terrorism arrests with a major attack in the works” And you know a new attack is on the way how? Shooting at stars, shooting at stars

“while waging Jihad against the CIA” The CIA is finally getting straightened out after the Cheney administration bastardized it to the point where they were chasing their tales and waterboarding taxi drivers. Where’s Bin Laden?

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Talleyrand October 29, 2009 at 17:14

Today we have this from Tood:

Todd White:

“Roissy: “Obama is an alpha.”

TW: I’m glad you agree with me on this. I said back in August that you’re the only guy in the online Game community who truly understands Game.”

and Todd wrote this back on September 2nd:

Todd White: “Then condemn him! Roissy is filth. Y’all have to decide whose side you’re on. There are guys like me who are record sympathizing with the blight of modern Beta men (I’m one myself), and would feel comfortable being part of some sort of larger “male empowerment movement,” or whatever you want to call it. See my essays, especially “The Content of Their Character” and “What’s a Degree Got to Do With It?” But I can’t endorse Game because y’all like Roissy and see him as a leader in your movement. It’s a disqualification.”

Fascinating watching a beta suck up to the lead dog.

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Talleyrand October 29, 2009 at 17:17

And the link to the todd white post on Roissy is here on this post:

http://seasonsoftumultanddiscord.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/in-defense-of-game-part-one

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Max October 29, 2009 at 17:36

I could never disagree with a man named Whiskey.

I said before and I’ll say it again, fucking paper Alphas spend their time checking the cut of their suit so some girl will blow them.

Teddy Roosevelt challenged foreign dignitaries to BOXING MATCHES.

Also . . . Last I checked, Roissy -started- by calling Obama an alpha on account of Rank. Then, in the same comment, he checked himself and acknowledged that he was Beta. In this case not an Ike PowerBeta doing the bidding of a MacArthur, but a cunt. Bona-fide.

McCrystal is telling Obama to drop the hammer and Obama is waffling. “Gee, uhm, I dunno . . . the voters might not like me if I send troops.

Hobbes was right. Where’s a Sovereign when you need one?

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whiskey October 29, 2009 at 18:51

Jack — the problem is that America even if it withdrew into its borders would remain a target, and that withdrawal will only guarantee $10 a gallon (and up) gasoline as Iran and Russia cooperate to spike oil prices sky-high (because they have nothing else on tap to pay their goon squads that maintain power).

America cannot survive without grinding poverty $10 a gallon gas and up. Besides, Denmark, post-Zapatero Spain, and the Netherlands are constant targets for Jihadists, and they are irrelevant (but powerless). It is not and never has been about us, always about them. Every Muslim man knows how Mohammed (the “perfect man”) went from outcast in Medina to retaking Mecca by attacking random caravans. Bin Laden, Zawahari, and others want to emulate that by attacking America as hard as possible killing as many Americans as possible to create a massive exile Army (to retake Saudi and Egypt respectively for their own rule).

Nuke proliferation was inevitable, and remains the “equalizer” giving even a guy like Bin Laden (he only needs to take/borrow a few from Pakistan) greater power than the Wehrmacht and Imperial Japanese forces combined. This means only the ruthless survive.

Slick — a bunch of White Lib men voted for Obama on the theory he’s not Bush. They are finding out he’s worse and he got them poverty. Obama offers weakness abroad, potential mass terror strikes here at home, continued depression, constant accusations of racism towards White men, more downward wages, and transfer of wealth to women, and particularly Blacks. If he ran today against the somnolent Fred Thompson he’d lose by ten points. About 72% of the layoffs, most of them permanent, are White men. Machiavelli advised to kill enemies before making them poor.

Afghanistan: We either deter Osama and the Taliban and AQ or we don’t. You don’t like the expenditures for defense and deterrence. We tried fantasy kumbayah in Clinton’s 8 years, what makes you think we’ll get anything but WORSE (i.e. nuclear) results as Pakistan falls to the Taliban.

Victory is not getting US cities nuked. That is the game we play for.

No one cares about the charge of “racist.” Its meaningless. After “hate crimes” are defined solely as White-on-Black violence, and the other way around is “OK” and we have the “reverse Rosa Parks” (White Boy in St. Louis being beaten by cheering Black kids for sitting next to a Black boy) the charge of racism is irrelevant. Only who does what for the MAJORITY WHITE POPULATION matters.

“Bush did it” is a cop out. He asked for a spending bill he wrote. He got it. He got no results. He’ll get the blame for going after the CIA that stopped attack after attack when it is successful.

Indeed Obama WANTS a nuclear attack on the US so he can suspend the Constitution (his cronies are already arguing this) and rule by decree like his pals Chavez, Castro, Noriega, and Zelaya. So he can impose “surrender” and some form of Sharia Light (he is after all raised a Muslim and likely one today, as well as a guy who went on Jihad in Pakistan in his trip there in the summer of 1981).

Valerie Jarret, his CoS, said they “speak truth to power.” Newsflash: THEY ARE THE POWER. People expect results, not SWPL gay fantasies. Obama better deliver or he’s toast. He may not serve out his term, be the first to be impeached and convicted.

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Jack Donovan October 29, 2009 at 19:01

whiskey -

I get all of that, but fighting endless (and they will be endless) wars will have essentially the same effect economically, and with no real added security guarantee. We can’t keep borrowing money to fight wars forever.

America can survive high gas prices, it just won’t be fun. My grandparents survived the Great Depression, and they were a lot smarter with their money than I am with mine.

Eventually we are going to have to pay the piper, and go back to an era where we have to do this weird thing called budgeting. Maybe foreign wine and exotic food will once again become exotic, instead of something any average person has on a whim. Maybe we won’t all have 300 channels. I don’t think these things are bad, I’m drinking a bottle of locally produced but higher priced gin as I write this. I’m as spoiled as anyone else, and I’ll miss the finer things I can buy even on a non-union blue collar worker’s salary.

I’m all for turning the entire Israel/Palestine area into a sheet of glass and calling it “fair and solved.” But we’re not going to do that, and I can’t imagine that endless wars funded with borrowed money waged by a country that produces nothing are going to have a better economic end result than expensive oil.

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Tupac Chopra October 29, 2009 at 20:36

Jack –

Whiskey’s parents were raped by Palestinians and Nazis. You’ll have to forgive him.

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JohnnyBravo October 29, 2009 at 20:39

Whiskey can at times be insightful but one should always keep in mind that he’s crazier than a shithouse rat.

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Kimskinovgorod October 29, 2009 at 20:56

I must have been unconscious for a long period of time, since I am living in Denmark, and we´ve never been a target for Jihadists, while I were awake. Not even close. Nothing in the news, either. Where did you get that info, Whiskey ??
Spain were, and London, but not Denmark…Yet.

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Kimskinovgorod October 29, 2009 at 21:17

Nor has the Netherlands, actually…

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Talleyrand October 29, 2009 at 21:58

“I’m all for turning the entire Israel/Palestine area into a sheet of glass and calling it “fair and solved.” But we’re not going to do that, and I can’t imagine that endless wars funded with borrowed money waged by a country that produces nothing are going to have a better economic end result than expensive oil.”

If a city gets nuked here, no one is going to have any qualms about turning the middle east into a sheet of glass, in fact people will demand it out of fear.

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kis October 29, 2009 at 22:13

I must have been unconscious for a long period of time, since I am living in Denmark, and we´ve never been a target for Jihadists, while I were awake. Not even close. Nothing in the news, either. Where did you get that info, Whiskey ??
Spain were, and London, but not Denmark…Yet.

Wasn’t there a big brouhaha over those cartoons a while back?

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Trilateral Commission October 29, 2009 at 22:19

From: Trilateral Commission
To: Globalman @ Oct. 29, 10:57 am
Re: Secret One-World Government Conspiracy

Dear Sir,

While it does amuse us to peruse the comments on geopolitics by you and your fellow commentors, we would respectfully request that you cease discussing any matters relating to “puppets”, “Rothchilds”, or “Rockefellers” or any insinuation that they are related to the current administration, as this has no basis in fact. We invite you to visit our website, http://www.1worldgovt.net, for further information. Seriously. Stop. Thank you.

p.s. The Bilderburgs are douches

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Kimskinovgorod October 29, 2009 at 22:23

kis

If you call a couple of hundred guys shouting in persian on the townsquare of Copenhagen, and the press blowing it out of proportion, a big brouhaha…well, yeah.(We´ve got bigger problems with the kids wanting to have a place to hang out,-lol!!!)
No bombs, and no other kind of shit IN Denmark…Nothing compared to the rest of the things we´ve seen in the world…They kind of shut up real quick, when they were caught redhanded, showing pictures that had absolutely nothing to do with the cartoons, to their mullah´s back home…

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Kimskinovgorod October 29, 2009 at 22:25

kis

Some of those pic´s were from a pigmeat-festival in France…Lol!!!

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kis October 29, 2009 at 22:27

LOL

Well, that’ll land you in a heap of trouble, won’t it?

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NiRo October 29, 2009 at 22:27

Chuck,

How do explain this smarty-pants? Not very alpha if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd2Z3nXnLD0

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Kimskinovgorod October 29, 2009 at 22:32

kis

Well, it helped that our Primeminister absolutely refused to apologize to anyone, until they established democracy, and stopped violating human rights!

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Popeye October 29, 2009 at 22:35

Beta = tilting your head as you pretend to give a shit about what some two-bit ruler is saying

Alpha = writing thousands of words analyzing the social order and how it oppresses men

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Welmer October 29, 2009 at 22:36

Chuck,

How do explain this smarty-pants? Not very alpha if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd2Z3nXnLD0

Heh. I kiss my kids all the time.

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Welmer October 29, 2009 at 22:40

Beta = tilting your head as you pretend to give a shit about what some two-bit ruler is saying

Alpha = writing thousands of words analyzing the social order and how it oppresses men

lol

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piercedhead October 29, 2009 at 23:55

I don’t know how may firm handshaking, conspicuous eye-contacting, popular womanisers I’ve met, but there’s no shortage of them. The interesting thing about the few that have gone on hunting trips with me into difficult country is how much their whole attitude changes as soon as any danger presents. Or they are confronted with only their own company in the middle of nowhere for a few days. Or it finally dawns on them that none of the usual amusements and clean amenities will be available.

That alpha nonsense evaporates. They’re in a different world where everything they know no longer matters, and they don’t quite know what to do with themselves. They reek fear. On the other hand, the few that prove themselves are usually regular joes who already know how to manage in worlds over which they don’t pretend to be masters.

It’s been my experience that the more social confidence a man shows, the more likely it is that everyone else will end up carrying him.

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Todd White October 30, 2009 at 06:22

Talley: “Fascinating watching a beta suck up to the lead dog.”

TW: That made me laugh. Thanks, man.

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z.g. October 30, 2009 at 06:26

Coming late to the discussion.

In all pictures, Nobama, is EPIC FAIL… Hell, those pics would make it into the failblog, under fail as world leader…

Nobama has well studied all the gestures but they are not natural and are not ingrained.

He did not come to where he is like Putin, secret service, or Berlusconi, the warfare of business… He came there through the pushing of others, so he knows he does n0t deserve his title, and he knows he is not in the same league as the men he is confronting.

This is all clearly seen. timid, shy, trying but failing, but always submissive, or afraid to be aggressive.

He is a lesser man, I still wonder how he got to where it is.

When I first saw his picture, I got the creeps. He resembled the the sneaky fucker that talked behind my back to the women I was shagging so he could have a chance.

And that is what Nobama did. He talked to the women in America of hope, change (we all know women want their men to change. Daddy/husband government = man = need to change no matter what), the media backed him, women saw preselection, and voted.

Seriously, any man voting for Nobama, and not being angry at himself should cut off his balls and hand it over to the pic farm catering. Selecting the prime example of sneaky fucker (as mentioned in ev.psych) as a leader, no wonder Italy (Berlusconi) has better ties with Russia(Putin) than with Nobama’s USSA.

Is he going to talk about nubile bodies with Putin, or is he going to talk about how to be submissive to a wife and women’s rights with Nobama…

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zed October 30, 2009 at 06:36

He is a lesser man, I still wonder how he got to where it is.

Because the US has become a Beta nation, and a “Woman’s Nation”, and Obama is what women and Betas want. Of course, it didn’t hurt his electability that his opposition was a walking cadaver.

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Proud Obama Voter October 30, 2009 at 07:12

I supported Obama in the election, I voted for him, and I don’t regret it. I have a really good explanation as to why – President Cheney and the cocaine cowboy Bush. That Administration was 8 years of Authoritarian Corporatism and Reactionary Theocracy. Your money belongs to the War Machine, your brain belongs to Fox News, your ass belongs to the Pentagon, and your dick belongs to God. Praise Jesus!

To the Obama haters – I can understand if you don’t like, or trust, Obama. But I would like to know what you feel a better alternative would be in our deeply corrupt, completely-rigged system as it presently is. McCain/Palin? Come on, lets’s hear it.

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G October 30, 2009 at 07:35

Notice how Bush actually regulated more than Clinton. But of course it’s easier to call him a Corpate Capitalist to the bones. It’s easier to follow the herd without making an opinion for yourself, its easier to have no spine. This shows up in zed’s comment “Because the US has become a Beta nation, and a “Woman’s Nation” [..]” .

http://i36.tinypic.com/ient6s.jpg

The Federal Register is the main source for the U.S. federal government agencies’:
-Proposed new rules and regulations;
-Final rules;
-Changes to existing rules; and
-Notices of meetings and adjudicatory proceedings.

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 07:36

@ Whiskey & Jack Don0van-

Is Rahm Emanual Alpha?
Who does he work for?

@ “Hobbes was right. Where’s a Sovereign when you need one?”

Scary. No one claims a representational democracy organized into a republic is perfect, but throwing away the three branches of government and the checks and balances inherent in that is pretty scary just because you want to kick ass more on the world stage. Religous zeolots are trying to disrupt our way of life, and you would let them win by throwing away the very fabric of our civilization.

“Victory is not getting US cities nuked. That is the game we play for.”

You’re still falling for the fear mongering of the Cheney/Bush administration. Nuking an American city is ….

A. Near impossible (911 was a fluke, you can’t defend against a sucker punch, except by understanding your enemies intent beforehand and then executing constant vigilance, both things the previous administration failed at, when even failing at one is all it takes. Both things we now are doing.)

B. It would be the worst thing in the world for the middle east, and they know it. Nuking stuff is a game changer for the world psyche. It would allow us free reign. Our military currently fights with both hands tied behind its back and with its shoe strings untied. We aren’t fighting wars, we’re playing “culture building” in a desert filled with fundamentalist zealots and uneducated Betas. The terrorist would play right into our hands if they nuked a city. You should want that based on your world view. Then Obama, or whoever is president if it happens, would have no choice but to lay waste to any parts of the Middle East that would not bow down to our conquering armies. We have hundreds of nuclear warheads; I suspect that like in the past we would only need to use two. The Japanese, god bless those crazy little worker bees, were just as “to the death” as any suicide bomber, and just a couple nukes broke them.

“Indeed Obama WANTS a nuclear attack on the US so he can suspend the Constitution (his cronies are already arguing this) and rule by decree like his pals Chavez, Castro, Noriega, and Zelaya. So he can impose “surrender” and some form of Sharia Light (he is after all raised a Muslim and likely one today, as well as a guy who went on Jihad in Pakistan in his trip there in the summer of 1981).”

Crack pot.

“In Afghanistan, the choice is not between puppies and rainbows. It is between running away, getting beat (there is no other way around it) by AQ and the Taliban, and ceding the nation AND PAKISTAN with 100+ nukes and growing to the two movements, to plot with impunity strikes against the US homeland.”

Those are the choices? You don’t think out of the box very much, do you. This sounds like a high schoolers understanding of foreign policy.
First off, Pakistans army will not let it fall. No nation is going to hand over nukes to an unknown factor. Its not like India doesn’t have a dog in the fight over there. And “to plot with impunity”? You make it sound like we don’t even have an army, not alone the CIA, NSA, etc., and other organizations that don’t have names making sure this would never happen. If Pakistan fell, we would be over there like white on rice, blowing the shit out of its military industrial complex so that it doesn’t fall into terrorist hands. Plus, what would be the end game for the nuclear armed terrorists? Many of them are brainwashed zealots, ready to die for their cause, but their leaders are not stupid. Islam is not a death cult. They want to spread their religion, not allow us to nuke it off the face of the earth. Bye bye Mecca. Wouldn’t even take a nuke.

Like I’ve said before, you’ve all got legitimate concerns about Obama. So do I. But when people claim I blindly worship him, when I simply give him the benefit of the doubt, much like the populace did for Bush, I am rather struck by how many people actually blindly hate him, and nothing he does is positive in any form. The fact that you can’t admit he has “game” is amazing to me. The world went from hating us, to loving us, the second he won the election. Do you not think having allies who actually like us is a good thing? Your respect for Alphaness has twisted into respect for Tyrants. Caeser was taken down by an ally who really did not like him. That is where we were headed before Obama came along. No one fully had our back, except on the political surface. Everyone was waiting for a chance to stab their daggers into us, all they needed was for a Brutus to make the first blow.

You see things too black and white. You make judgements too quickly.

How much Limbaugh, Fox news, and right-wing bloggers to you listen to?

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Proud Obama Voter October 30, 2009 at 07:55

G – Actually, I’m not surprised that Cheney regulated more than Clinton. Note how i called them Authoritarian Corporatists. They are all about legislating the playing field so it favors their buddies. They are anti-free market, anti-individual freedom, anti-state’s rights, anti-small government, except for when those concepts helped out their corporate benefactors.

The GOP is going to continue to march around in the wilderness, tearing out each other’s eyes, until they come to grips to the fact that from 2001-2008 they were the cheerleader and consort of the most anti-conservative President we’ve had in decades.

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Fiercely Independent John Nada October 30, 2009 at 07:58

Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 7:36 am

A. Near impossible (911 was a fluke, you can’t defend against a sucker punch, except by understanding your enemies intent beforehand and then executing constant vigilance, both things the previous administration failed at, when even failing at one is all it takes. Both things we now are doing.)

***
Come on, man. The US-Mexico border is leaking like a sieve and has been for at least 25 years–smuggling drugs and PEOPLE. People like an ex-girlfriend of mine that made it illegally all the way from downtown RIO de JANEIRO BRAZIL. Who, when I asked her what she would do were she ever deported replied flippantly, “I’ll just come right back.” You think the bad guys haven’t already gotten the materials necessary to construct their own ‘football’ across either whole or piecemeal?

Never mind the fact that the US and Canada share the largest unchecked border in the world. The only reason LAX wasn’t toast was because of a Canuck border patrol officer trusted her gut instinct.

Tinfoil hats aside, the chances of a nuclear detonation in an American city today are no longer a matter of “if” but “when”.

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Fiercely Independent John Nada October 30, 2009 at 07:59

BTW, I’m neither Republican nor Democrat. IMO, they are but 2 sides of the same coin. I consider myself “Pragmatic”.

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zed October 30, 2009 at 08:41

Nuking an American city is ….

A. Near impossible (911 was a fluke, you can’t defend against a sucker punch, except by understanding your enemies intent beforehand and then executing constant vigilance, both things the previous administration failed at, when even failing at one is all it takes. Both things we now are doing.)

B. It would be the worst thing in the world for the middle east, and they know it. Nuking stuff is a game changer for the world psyche. It would allow us free reign.

A. I think it would be easier than most people seem to think. Nothing says it has to be delivered by missile or air. Any ship coming into any one of our harbors could easily contain a small nuclear device. If it is possible to muster 19 young men willing to commit suicide in order to harm the enemy, it certainly could be possible to recruit a couple of entire ship’s crews to do the same thing.

A ground level (or sea level) blast would certainly do less damage than an aerial blast like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but those were only 15 kiloton bombs. The fireball could set major portions of cities on fire, even if the blast did not destroy structures directly. If emergency services could not handle Katrina, the aftermath of a nuke would look like the Keystone Kops. And then there would be the radiation, because the bombs will almost certainly be dirty.

Assuming that someone crazy enough to do this already had the devices, it would actually be easier than coordinating the planes on 9/11. There would be no schedules imposed and the timing would not be critical – simply get the boats in place and when everything is ready, give the signal and they all go off basically simultaeously.

There were 4 planes on 9/11. Taking just 4 ships – New York City, Houston, San Francisco, and Seattle could easily be wiped off the map. With all the time in the world to prepare, 12 would not be impossible to imagine. New York, DC, Houston, San Francisco, LA, Baltimore, Norfolk, Charleston, Savannah, Miami, Seattle, and Chicago could all be totally crippled if not taken out entirely.

Even worse would be the EMP. There is a real interesting book called “Warday”, in which the premise is that none of these big monkeys rattling their nuclear sabers really knew what effect the Electromagnetic Pulse was going to have on electrical systems. Both sides got off a few missiles, and the first ones to go off wiped out the electronic systems necessary to launch the rest. It didn’t matter, the disruption of normal life and the resulting social chaos resulted in the US fragmenting into 4 territories run by militias, the USSR into even more of the same type of fragments.

B. There are those who believe that 9/11 was an “inside job.” I tend to doubt that, but I certainly do not trust our own leadership enough to just flatly dismiss it and adamantly argue that it just isn’t possible.

Think of any magician’s trick – divert your attention while he palms the card or pulls the coin out of your ear. It wouldn’t have to be the Middle East. And, it would not even have to be anyone particularly visible on the world stage – any crazy fucker with enough resources who is crazy enough could pull off some of it. North Korea might really get off on pulling a stunt like this and getting the Middle East to take the fall.

The problem with being the big monkey is that every monkey gets old sooner or later and there are a lot of younger big monkeys eager to take his place. The US has made a lot of enemies with its imperialistic policies and a lot of people in the world would love to see us go down.

As a country, I think the US may be getting tired of being the big monkey. I don’t think electing a Beta was any sort of accident. It looks to me like he was selected to administer the end of Age of the American Empire.

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Eman October 30, 2009 at 08:50

Riencourt returns again and again to the topic of Americans’ essential conservatism, for which he finds an explanation in gender dominance: “It is this fundamental conservatism that gives Americans in the modern world a position almost identical with that of the Romans, a conservatism bolstered by the complete ascendancy of the conservative-minded sex – women.” The author makes a great deal of this point: “All this links up with the best-known characteristic of American life: the hen-pecked nature of American men…the childish desire for love that Americans display in their contacts throughout the world is a direct consequence of the absolute predominance of the female principle…[I]ntimacy, familiarity, lack of reverence have become the dominant themes of American life. Nothing leads more implacably to Caesarism than these traits.” Noting that the emancipation of women was also a feature of the late Roman Republic, the author asserts that a democratic electorate tends to become “feminine,” emotional, eager for leadership. A feminine public opinion looks for a virile Caesar. – http://www.johnreilly.info/tcoce5.htm

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zed October 30, 2009 at 08:50

The only reason LAX wasn’t toast was because of a Canuck border patrol officer trusted her gut instinct.

?? I either didn’t hear about this incident or wasn’t paying attention. To what are you referring here?

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 08:51

Sneaking a nuke across the border is not the hard part. Getting your hands on a nuke to begin with, keeping that secret, and having the will to use it, is what makes it unlikely in my mind. Any nuke a terrorist gets his hands on will not be something that just fits in a suitcase. I admit I may be optimistic, but I call em’ like I see em’, and I just don’t see it happening.

On that note though, I am anti-immigration (some isn’t bad, but this is ridiculus, and it needs to be done legally.) I’m all for a big ass wall. Think of the jobs it would create. Think how easy it should be. China built the great wall back in the day. And that wall was defensive militarily. We can’t build a slippery one that goes into the ground to prevent 5 ft 6” latinos from climbing it or digging under it. This is a true shame.

I’m not a Republican or Democrat either. I like platforms from both parties, probably more Republican platforms, but ideas and execution are different things. I just don’t see any option. A successful third party candidate who expresses my same values would have a near impossible chance of winning. I’m forced to root for the lesser of two evils. I don’t like it anymore than you do.

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Eman October 30, 2009 at 08:57

Jabherwochie:”I’m all for a big ass wall. Think of the jobs it would create. Think how easy it should be. China built the great wall back in the day. And that wall was defensive militarily. We can’t build a slippery one that goes into the ground to prevent 5 ft 6” latinos from climbing it or digging under it. This is a true shame.”

Yes, we will build a wall and call it the ‘Great White Wall’ — it will be at least 20 feet tall and constructed of huge stone blocks of granite or other very hard permanent stone, and it will go underground quite a few feet to prevent the barbarian hordes from digging under it.

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 09:09

Final thought; If nuking us is possible, even plausable, how come we havn’t gotten hit in any other form since 9-11. Are the terrorist so patient as to simply wait until they get there hands on a nuke before taking another real stab at us. I don’t give zealots credit for being patient, but it is a possibility. Unfortunately, I’m sure we will be lulled into a sense of complaceny one day in the future, which we should not allow to happen, but I feel that with our current vigilance, nothing major is going to transpire. For every idiot policy maker, there is a brilliant spook making shit happen. If everyone in the government is an idiot, then we are all screwed anyways. Keep in mind, that people in the CIA had warnings of 9-11. Is was the lack of will to act upon the information that caused us to get hit. I give our intelligence agencies more credit than I give our congress.

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 09:12

Eman October 30, 2009 at 8:57 am
Jabherwochie:”I’m all for a big ass wall. Think of the jobs it would create. Think how easy it should be. China built the great wall back in the day. And that wall was defensive militarily. We can’t build a slippery one that goes into the ground to prevent 5 ft 6” latinos from climbing it or digging under it. This is a true shame.”

Yes, we will build a wall and call it the ‘Great White Wall’ — it will be at least 20 feet tall and constructed of huge stone blocks of granite or other very hard permanent stone, and it will go underground quite a few feet to prevent the barbarian hordes from digging under it.”

Assuming your beign sarcastic; nations have borders for a reason. Its not racist. I have no problem with latinos. They work hard, are religous, are family oriented, and actually breed. Latino women are hot to. But good walls make good neighbors. There is nothing to argue about. Its common sense.

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 09:12

Maybe your not being sarcastic. My bad if so, I’m bad at that.

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zed October 30, 2009 at 09:17

Final thought; If nuking us is possible, even plausable, how come we havn’t gotten hit in any other form since 9-11.

For the same reason that the ultimate effects of releasing a bowling ball happen some time after you have released it.

The cultural changes which have taken place since 9/11 have been in their own way just as devastating as the explosions themselves. Civil liberties have been severely curtailed, transportation screwed up to the point where some people will do anything they can to avoid flying, and the government’s intrusion into peoples lives has created a distaste for that government or lack of unity. In addition, huge amounts of resources have been expended to fight a “threat” that is as hard to identify and pin down as smoke. After eight years, the planners of 9/11 are still getting bang for their buck in terms of being able to mess with “life as usual” in the US.

It could be like a big game of Jenga – just waiting for the right time to clobber the stack in just the right way to make the whole thing collapse.

I give our intelligence agencies more credit than I give our congress.

I don’t give either of them very much.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:17

I’m all for a big ass wall. Think of the jobs it would create.

Just remember, 50% of those jobs will have to go to women! *ducks*

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zed October 30, 2009 at 09:20

Just remember, 50% of those jobs will have to go to women! *ducks*

Hey, for every woman who dies during construction that will be one man who doesn’t. What’s the problem?

Now that men don’t have to provide any more, we are less likely to take high-risk jobs. And that’s a good thing.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:23
The only reason LAX wasn’t toast was because of a Canuck border patrol officer trusted her gut instinct.

?? I either didn’t hear about this incident or wasn’t paying attention. To what are you referring here?

I may be remembering wrong, but I recall reading about a Canadian customs agent or BP officer who stopped one dude (or group?) from entering Canada, and it turned out he was going to cross the nice open border into the States and take out LAX? But I could be conflating another incident with 9-11.

The gist was, they couldn’t get into Canada, so they didn’t get into the States…

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:24

Hey, for every woman who dies during construction that will be one man who doesn’t. What’s the problem?

Now that men don’t have to provide any more, we are less likely to take high-risk jobs. And that’s a good thing.

Aww, man! And I thought a barrage of rotten tomatoes was headed my way.

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Kimskinovgorod October 30, 2009 at 09:27

zed

I think you´re right on that one one. The repercussions of 9/11 on the western world has been far more devastating, than the attacks themselves.
Btw. the EMP-device you mentioned earlier, is called a “Cooler”, and it only takes one of those, to take any country in the western hemisphere back to the stone age for a period of 2-4 years. Civil disorder and hunger will do the rest…

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Kimskinovgorod October 30, 2009 at 09:29

kis

*throwing a rotten tomato*
-One tomato coming up !!

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Rollory October 30, 2009 at 09:30

POV:
“But I would like to know what you feel a better alternative would be in our deeply corrupt, completely-rigged system as it presently is. McCain/Palin? Come on, lets’s hear it.”

Not McCain. For God’s sake, not McCain.

Ron Paul/Palin, maybe. Palin isn’t a great choice; her primary selling point is that of being an ordinary person with a sensibility of ordinary life, not in any way a member of the elite. She has a lot of points against her. I admit that part of why I like her is the personal level, and that sort of judgement didn’t work so well in picking Obama or Bush. I’d prefer better choices. I don’t see any available.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:32

kis

*throwing a rotten tomato*
-One tomato coming up !!

Just one? Sheesh.

How’s this: 50% of the jobs will have to go to women, but they’ll all be cushy desk jobs where they tell men what to do, because women won’t want to do actual construction. :P

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zed October 30, 2009 at 09:33

it turned out he was going to cross the nice open border into the States and take out LAX?

With what? How? Another plane?

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Kimskinovgorod October 30, 2009 at 09:33

Rollory

Ron Paul croacks-Palin becomes president…Think about it !!

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Peter October 30, 2009 at 09:33

Most people (85%) have health care through insurance, and are moderately happy with it. Obama wants to make it all government run, to cover the 15% that don’t have it, nearly all illegal aliens or poor Blacks. Doing this will require rationing, on a racial basis, discriminating against the White Majority in favor of non-White minorities. Making Health Care akin to the Post Office and DMV combined, rationing it for seniors and those with long-term disabilities.

Good. We need rationing. One of the main reasons why health care is gobbling up such a disproportionate share of GDP is our practice of providing hugely expensive heroic treatments that do nothing except briefly extend the lives (or what pass for “lives”) of mostly elderly people when the chances of anything but very short-term survival and quality of life are both zero. Granny is 90 years old, hopelessly senile, and has spent the past five years wearing adult diapers in the nursing home? Fear not, we’ll perform heart surgery at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars so she’ll live another six months rather than another three months (and how many more dirty diapers will that be?) No one in America is willing to recognize that life has its limits, that we all come to an end someday, and most crucially that extending life is both a huge waste of resources AND an act of cruelty toward the people in question. People in other developed countries are much more aware of the limits on life and are willing to put limits on end-of-life treatment. And no, that does not make them barbarians.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:34

How’s this: 50% of the jobs will have to go to women, but they’ll all be cushy desk jobs where they tell men what to do, because women won’t want to do actual construction.

Now that I think of it, that’s not funny. It’s not funny because it’s true…

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Fiercely Independent John Nada October 30, 2009 at 09:34

zed October 30, 2009 at 8:50 am

The only reason LAX wasn’t toast was because of a Canuck border patrol officer trusted her gut instinct.

?? I either didn’t hear about this incident or wasn’t paying attention. To what are you referring here?

In 1999, Ahmed Ressam boarded a ferry from British Columbia with a car trunk full of explosives meant to blow up Los Angeles International Airport. He was caught at a routine customs inspection when he docked in Port Angeles.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405176_immigration20.html

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zed October 30, 2009 at 09:36

because women won’t want to do actual construction.

Of course they don’t. Women don’t want to do actual anything, they just want to get paid as if they do.

Those with 3 kids to feed may just have to take what they can get because their husbands are too busy playing WoW while the women bring home the bacon.

Pretty nice gig we men suckered you grrls into giving us, don’t you think? ;)

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:37
it turned out he was going to cross the nice open border into the States and take out LAX?

With what? How? Another plane?

My memory of it is really fuzzy. I don’t recall whether LAX was the target, or whether they were supposed to grab a plane from there and take out another target. The latter seems more likely.

I don’t remember whether the customs agent or whoever sent the guy back where he came from, or whether they took him into custody or what. Hmm. How would you even google something like that?

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zed October 30, 2009 at 09:38

Thanks, Nada.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:40

In 1999, Ahmed Ressam boarded a ferry from British Columbia with a car trunk full of explosives meant to blow up Los Angeles International Airport. He was caught at a routine customs inspection when he docked in Port Angeles.

If that’s the case, wouldn’t it be a US BP officer? As I said, my memory is really fuzzy on this.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:42

Those with 3 kids to feed may just have to take what they can get because their husbands are too busy playing WoW while the women bring home the bacon.

Pretty nice gig we men suckered you grrls into giving us, don’t you think?

Now that’s just mean.

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Fiercely Independent John Nada October 30, 2009 at 09:46

Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 8:51 am

On that note though, I am anti-immigration (some isn’t bad, but this is ridiculus, and it needs to be done legally.) I’m all for a big ass wall. Think of the jobs it would create. Think how easy it should be.

***
A big ass wall? Think of all the people it will keep IN. Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, the purely dread awful experience of passing through airport terminals and VOILA! you now live in a prison with no bars. Did I forget to mention VAWA/IMBRA/Bradley Amendment?

No thanks. The USA is a prison society enough without the Great Wall of Tijuana being erected.

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zed October 30, 2009 at 09:47

Now that’s just mean.

You know the old saying, kis –
“Too soon old, too late schmart.”

We kept hoping women wouldn’t catch on until it was too late for them to do anything about it. Turns out we didn’t have anything to worry about. :D

And, this time you clearly started it.

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Fiercely Independent John Nada October 30, 2009 at 09:50

***
You’re right, kis.
I stand corrected.

and you’re welcome, zed.

Mr. Ressam, known as the Millennium Bomber, was trying to cross from Canada to Washington State en route to Los Angeles by ferry through Port Angeles, Wash., in December 1999 when he was stopped by a United States customs inspector. The inspector, Diana Dean, now retired, said later that she sensed Mr. Ressam was extremely nervous and that the convoluted route he described taking from Canada to the city he called “Sattle” made no sense to her.

Ms. Dean and other agents chased Mr. Ressam after he fled from the port and hijacked a car. Agents found the makings of explosives in the trunk of the rental car he had taken on the ferry; Mr. Ressam was later convicted of conspiring to detonate the explosives at Los Angeles International Airport during the 2000 New Year’s travel season, among other charges.

Many legal experts consider the case a watershed because it was believed to be the first time a terrorist had entered the United States with explosives and an extensive plot to harm American citizens.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/national/28ressam.html?_r=1

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:54

Good. We need rationing. One of the main reasons why health care is gobbling up such a disproportionate share of GDP is our practice of providing hugely expensive heroic treatments that do nothing except briefly extend the lives (or what pass for “lives”) of mostly elderly people when the chances of anything but very short-term survival and quality of life are both zero.

This is where I think Canada has the less messed up of the two systems. That friend of mine who got prenatal care in the States said they performed every blood test they could think of, despite the fact that she’d had most of those tests done in Canada not three months prior, and they had her chart right in front of them. They gave her three sonograms she considered unnecessary–talked her into them just to “put her mind at ease.” Because they can bill the insurance company for it and make a profit. Which puts decent insurance out of reach cost-wise for a lot of other people.

If she had no insurance, she’d have been unable to afford any prenatal care.

Every health care system imposes limits on services–you either pick time, money or need. When all the money’s coming from one pool, and providing heart surgery to that 90 y/o woman means denying or delaying surgery for the 14 y/o who needs it, doctors are much less likely to do it–especially if outcomes for the 90 y/o are an iffy proposition at best.

It ain’t a perfect system, by any means. Doctors don’t earn as much here–although they still earn plenty. And you don’t have private companies pushing formula samples in new mom’s faces minutes after giving birth, and discouraging them to breastfeed, either.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 09:55

And, this time you clearly started it.

Hmmph!

*flounces off*

LOL

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Peter October 30, 2009 at 10:01

This is where I think Canada has the less messed up of the two systems. That friend of mine who got prenatal care in the States said they performed every blood test they could think of, despite the fact that she’d had most of those tests done in Canada not three months prior, and they had her chart right in front of them. They gave her three sonograms she considered unnecessary–talked her into them just to “put her mind at ease.” Because they can bill the insurance company for it and make a profit. Which puts decent insurance out of reach cost-wise for a lot of other people.

Another reason for all the testing in America is the fear of malpractice litigation. Your friend’s doctor was covering his or her scrotum or clitoris, as the case may be, to guard against huge lawsuits (which can be filed for many years after the baby’s birth). Many doctors in the United States refuse to deliver babies because of the lawsuits and the enormous premiums they have to pay for malpractice insurance.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 10:08

Another reason for all the testing in America is the fear of malpractice litigation. Your friend’s doctor was covering his or her scrotum or clitoris, as the case may be, to guard against huge lawsuits (which can be filed for many years after the baby’s birth). Many doctors in the United States refuse to deliver babies because of the lawsuits and the enormous premiums they have to pay for malpractice insurance.

There’s that, too. I heard also that many (most? all?) American OBGYN’s refuse to allow cameras of any kind in the delivery room, because photos and video gets used against them in court all the time.

My sister (along with everyone else in the delivery room) got sued here in Canada by a couple whose kid was perfectly normal–both parents were gifted, and when their kid hit age 3 without showing signs of being gifted as well, they sued. The plaintiff’s didn’t pursue it past discovery, though. The litigation process here is geared toward discouraging frivolous lawsuits and penalizing people who initiate them. You really have to have a case you’re sure you can win for it to be worth it.

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Proud Obama Voter October 30, 2009 at 10:09

Rollory-
Ron Paul/Palin is not a feasible electorate alternative. Might as well propose Unicorn/Pixie Dust as ticket. Actual Ron Paul-style Libertarianism is WAY too threatening to the plutocracy. Though I personally think Paul has some great ideas. Palin needs to come clean about her ties to Dominionist Christians, Secessionists, and White Supremacists.

We are under a one-party government which is the Corporate Party. Of the two management teams, one is slightly less brutal about their class warfare, and I voted for that one.

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zed October 30, 2009 at 10:09

Many doctors in the United States refuse to deliver babies because of the lawsuits and the enormous premiums they have to pay for malpractice insurance.

An example of how insanely litigious the US is was a case a few years ago where instead of suing for “Wrongful Death” a couple sued for “Wrongful Life.” They gave burth to a defective child and their rationale was that not aborting the fetus amounted to medical malpractice. They sued for the costs of taking care of the child for life. I don’t remember how it turned out, but it is a good example of how sick US society has become.

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kis October 30, 2009 at 10:09

Augh, I used an apostrophe to pluralize! My editor would totally spank me for that…

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kis October 30, 2009 at 10:12

An example of how insanely litigious the US is was a case a few years ago where instead of suing for “Wrongful Death” a couple sued for “Wrongful Life.” They gave burth to a defective child and their rationale was that not aborting the fetus amounted to medical malpractice. They sued for the costs of taking care of the child for life. I don’t remember how it turned out, but it is a good example of how sick US society has become.

I think someone (in Canada?) sued for wrongful life as well–for a late term abortion that didn’t take, if I recall. She got so much bad press, I think she backed down.

I felt so bad for the kid, who was 6 at the time–old enough to understand that her mom was suing someone over the fact that she was alive when her mom wanted her dead. Sick.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 10:22

Jabherwochie, the Great Wall didn’t prevent people from getting in, it only prevented raiders from getting back out quickly with any loot (the force protecting the wall was spread too thin to prevent incursions, but it acted as an early warning system to supply time for Chinese forces to mobilize and confront the attackers)–absent a system of security cameras and a huge team of people willing to watch all those cameras (a la the Israeli security fence), a wall would not be a particularly effective deterrent.

Furthermore, a nuclear attack is only a bad idea if you represent a state–this is why North Korea will not use its nuclear weapons directly, unless invaded. A non-state entity doesn’t control any effective targets for a nuclear retaliation, and might stand to gain as the result of the ensuing chaos, especially if they can point the finger at a state they don’t like. The source of a nuclear device can be determined–to an extent–from a forensic analysis of the components of the bomb, bomb design, and fissile material used; by stealing a device from a state it is trivial to implicate them in an attack. What do you think would happen if an Israeli bomb were set off in the US, with no group claiming responsibility, and Israel claiming it was stolen? Do you think China would show restraint if an Indian or Pakistani bomb were set off within China’s borders?

Even still, it is quite possible to continue as we have, and keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of non-state entities–the trick is to prevent the accumulation of enough fissile material by non-state actors; no other approach can succeed. But this is a national security imperative that requires a state of vigilance.

To zed:

EMPs are not the risk you’re making them out to be. Vacuum tubes are very resistant to damage from an EMP, and the US (and I expect other nuclear powers) keeps some systems running entirely on vacuum tubes for this reason. Submarine mounted missiles would also be mostly or entirely shielded from an EMP and would maintain counterstrike capability.

To kis and peter re: healthcare:

The big problem with healthcare, as it stands in America, is that the people it is serving have no price sensitivity, since the bill they pay is the same regardless of treatment. It’d be like telling a kid that as long as they give you back their allowance, you’ll buy them all the candy they want, and the nice store owner will be there to help them pick out what to get while you pay for it. Of course the store owner will push as much onto the kid as they can–the kid has no reason to turn it down, and it’s a foregone conclusion that you’ll pay the bill. If, instead of having regular fixed deductibles like we do, people were required to pay a fixed fraction of the cost of the care provided (based on what I’ve seen, something around 3% to 5% of the amount currently charged to the insurance companies would be high enough to be noticeable, but small enough to be reasonable) we’d see actual price competition in this industry, resulting in lower cost and higher quality of care.

But instead of actually being interested in fixing this underlying disconnect between the people and their medical care providers (which basically makes the people into little more than cattle shuttled around by the healthcare system, as the insurance companies are the actual “consumers” setting terms), the “debate” (if you can call it that) is fixated on whether or not there is a “public option” for health “insurance” (really, a health care subscription; insurance is what you get when you want to share the risk of a catastrophic event amongst a large group of people). The public option is socialist beauraucratic crap, but I’d frankly be willing to accept it if it would actually address the underlying issue.

To Proud Obama Voter:
I was going to write in Ron Paul/Stephen Colbert (it’s not like the bottom end of a write-in is especially relevant to begin with), but I wound up settling for voting Bob Barr. Not because I’m especially a fan of the Libertarian party either (their foreign policy sucks, among other things), but because of the way public finance laws for campaigns work–namely that only parties with at least a certain fraction of the vote in one election can get public financing in the next. Of course, the Lib party got nowhere near a large enough fraction for my vote to have mattered for that either.

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Rollory October 30, 2009 at 10:27

POV:
Ok, that’s funny, you mention white supremacist ties in the context of Palin but not Paul? Palin’s pro-diversity lip service is one of the problems I have with her, actually.

I don’t think the pro-whites are all that wrong. I tune them out when they start ranting about Jews being uniquely evil, but a greater national consciousness and homogeneous ethnic identity would IMO go hand in hand with a more responsible and stable society that is capable of permitting itself the freedom we used to have. Same with secessionitis: the USA has been turning into an imperial structure for a while, and could use some devolution and serious weakening of the center, more power explicitly reserved to and exercised by local governments. Lots of diversity and feminist policies are imposed outwards from DC; cutting that out won’t solve everything, but it will permit local governments to go their own way. Dominionism isn’t something I approve of but in the absence of a strong central government it can’t do great harm and those who want it can have it while those who don’t can live elsewhere.

So … no, your argument isn’t one I find convincing at all.

Kimski:
Why do you assume I didn’t think about it? Why do you assume I would consider it obviously a bad thing?

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Kimskinovgorod October 30, 2009 at 10:35

Rollory

a) I stand corrected.
b) You would´nt ???

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kis October 30, 2009 at 10:53

The public option is socialist beauraucratic crap, but I’d frankly be willing to accept it if it would actually address the underlying issue.

It is, but it’s better than any workable alternative, IMO. There are some fucked up decisions that get made, for sure, because the bureaucracy often doesn’t know squat about medicine. But a doctor gets paid the same, whether he orders that unnecessary sonogram or not, the ultrasound technician gets pair by the hour (or day, or month)–if I recall correctly–not by the procedure, and even if the lab (which gets paid by the test) leases space from a private practice clinic, a doctor has no real financial incentive to send them more work than necessary, because they don’t share the profits (IIRC).

In the States, health care is geared toward generating profit (doing more, so long as someone is paying the bill), whereas in Canada it’s geared toward minimizing expenditures (doing less, because even though someone pays the bill, the profit structures are not interdependent).

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zed October 30, 2009 at 11:04

EMPs are not the risk you’re making them out to be. Vacuum tubes are very resistant to damage from an EMP, and the US (and I expect other nuclear powers) keeps some systems running entirely on vacuum tubes for this reason. Submarine mounted missiles would also be mostly or entirely shielded from an EMP and would maintain counterstrike capability.

Let me clarify the point I was making. The counterstrike is totally beside the point. I don’t know how many of our national communication systems are hardened, but I am sure it cannot be all of them. Phone networks go down, communication basically stops. People panic. The power grid can’t even effectively handle overloads, think about the effect of having any major part of it actually wiped out. Most, if not all, of the grid would go down. There would be poor communication for emergency crews and rescue workers. Look at an ordinary rush hour in any major city, cut a couple of major arteries, mix in a million or so panicked people, and you have a recipe for mayhem on a pretty good sized level.

Look at what happened post 9/11 when all we lost was a couple of buildings. Imagine a good sized city, or more than one, leveled and a million or two deaths – we will suddenly start needing travel papers to go to the corner store to buy a carton of milk.

One blast, and life as we know it in the US comes to an abrupt end. More than one, and I don’t think there is enough social cohesiveness to get us through the aftermath and crisis which would follow that. I think the entire country would come down about as fast as the twin towers. Remember that a large portion of the National Guard which is our normal domestic crisis response force is engaged elsewhere fighting foreign wars.

Hmmmmmm? If one were prone to believing in conspiracy theories, he might even ask if that is not an accident.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 11:11

The problem with that system is that it provides no incentive to improve quality of care. This is one of the fundamental problems with all socialist systems; if you pay people the same regardless of output, there’s no point in trying to improve the output. The US has been subsidizing a large fraction of the improvements in healthcare–from which the entire world has benefited–by being the only country to behave this way. If we stop, the whole world suffers (and in another sector in which we are still net exporters–medical technology–we will become net importers). The system can only be fixed by finding a way to increase price competition; adding a government plan either only barely increases price competition or significantly decreases it (depending on how many people switch over).

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kis October 30, 2009 at 11:20

The problem with that system is that it provides no incentive to improve quality of care. This is one of the fundamental problems with all socialist systems; if you pay people the same regardless of output, there’s no point in trying to improve the output.

That’s true. As I said, there’s some pretty fucked up decision making in Canada that impacts negatively on both patient care and the financial viability of the system. A lot of that has to do with not running health care as a business.

However, running it as a business has its drawbacks, too. Shareholders must be appeased, which means profit must be generated, sometimes to the detriment of the system’s long-term viability.

It’s like using GDP as a measure of economic “health”. When you consider that every car crash, divorce, Katrina-grade catastrophe, or frivolous lawsuit ups the GDP, well, how accurate a measure of economic health is it? Just because a hospital is putting dollars in the pockets of shareholders doesn’t mean it isn’t being insanely wasteful–it just means the waste is pushed onto other entities like insurance companies, and then onto insurance holders through higher premiums or denial of coverage.

The US system’s profit stream is interdependent where it shouldn’t be, and separate where it really needs to be. IMO.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 11:34

zed,

I sincerely hope that a domestic nuclear strike would drive up military recruitment–the use of a nuclear weapon is a vicious military attack of a magnitude entirely unprecedented outside of a declared state of war. Under such circumstances, I would certainly enlist if I thought that was the path to securing the greatest good for the greatest number.

Conversely, if the country became a police state, there is still the second amendment. (I am not supporting the violent overthrow of the US government. The point of the second amendment is that having an armed populace coerces the government not to form a police state for fear of revolt. Hopefully, no revolt will be necessary.)

The US power grid is actually three more-or-less disconnected pieces; the Eastern grid, the Western grid, and the Texas grid (irony: power on the Texas grid is more ecologically friendly, as an average of its sources, then power on the other two grids). The three grids would have to be attacked independently in order for them all to go down. That said, doing so is not exactly impossible, and any one of the grids going largely or completely down would play havoc with the system.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 11:53

Yes, GDP has its limitations, but even if we view things purely in terms of physical wealth creation, the US is still creating more under its current system than countries with socialized medicine; the US has the most and the highest resolution MRIs and CT scanners. Many (most?) new drugs are created here–and essentially all drugs would be prohibitively expensive for the conditions they treat without the money that goes into their purchase in the US, or else the researchers would never recoup their costs, and new drug development would die out. Advancements in medical device technology (prosthetic limbs) is US dominated (largely thanks to Dean Kamen–also, it should be noted that this may not be true for long as there are some exciting new developments in this area coming out of Japan).

An American economy built around legal battles, shuffling around numbers on the stock market, and the service aspects fo health care, is unsustainable for precisely the reasons you’ve noted–while these positions do inflate GDP, they don’t create wealth. But socialization of US medicine will either be too small to change much of anything, or else large enough to kill the aspects of the healthcare industry that are worth saving, along with some of the rot.

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zed October 30, 2009 at 11:56

I sincerely hope that a domestic nuclear strike would drive up military recruitment–the use of a nuclear weapon is a vicious military attack of a magnitude entirely unprecedented outside of a declared state of war. Under such circumstances, I would certainly enlist if I thought that was the path to securing the greatest good for the greatest number.

Arbitrary,

My point is that I don’t think the social fabric that is the US would hold together after a nuclear strike – unless it was a single target, and even that would be tough.

The twin towers is a perfect analogy – they got hit, they burned for a while, and then they collapsed totally. Let’s say NY got hit. Wall Street is now gone. The backup systems which all of the financial companies maintain are spread all over the place and are not networked in the same way.

One of the points made in Warday was that 99 out of every 100 $$ that people think they have do not really exist except in some computer memory bank. Say that you purchased 100,000 shares of IBM in the morning, and the blast happens right after noon. Where is your stock? What do you have to prove that you own it? The ATM network goes down. You have $10,000 in your bank account. Now, prove it to someone and try to get to any of it.

In just a couple of days the looters were running wild after Katrina. Mulitply that times 10,000 if any of the major commerce, communication, or food supply systems gets disrupted. The 2nd amendment will come in handy because chaos will be the order of the day pretty quickly as people organize into armed enclaves to protect whatever resources they have.

Ok, assuming that in a few months things get calmed down enough to recruit for the Armed Forces – who are they going to fight? No one ever believed, or I think even suggested, that Saddam Hussein had anything directly to do with 9/11, yet that is where the armies went. If the US were to have an nuclear strike, who would they go to war against? Suppose that the favorite fall guy, Bin Laden, gets blamed. We had been sort of after him before 9/11, and have been after him non-stop since then, and still haven’t caught him. What are we going to do – give Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran 30 days to cough him up or we are going to send 5,000,000 troops over there to give them all a spanking?

We gotta just hope and pray that it never happens, because if it does I think it will be the biggest damn mess the world has ever known.

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Rollory October 30, 2009 at 12:01

Kimski -
Ok, that’s the kind of pointless nonsense that generally makes debates over Palin entirely useless. I gave a couple reasons why I like Palin. I can give a lot more. I gave a few reasons why I think she isn’t a great candidate. If necessary, I can go into detail on how the various reasons stack up against each other and why I weigh them the way I do, and debate and compare with someone else’s view of the matter. Enough of that, with honest intentions on both sides, and people can come to some sort of understanding of why each holds the beliefs they do on the subject, and be convinced that even if the other person’s view isn’t one to agree with, it isn’t inherently insane. That’s called rational discussion, and it’s the foundation of successful politics in a republic.

You, meanwhile, haven’t provided any sort of evidence or reasoning at all, just one-line assertions and pressure. You’re a woman, right?

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:07

“Jabherwochie, the Great Wall didn’t prevent people from getting in, it only prevented raiders from getting back out quickly with any loot (the force protecting the wall was spread too thin to prevent incursions, but it acted as an early warning system to supply time for Chinese forces to mobilize and confront the attackers)–absent a system of security cameras and a huge team of people willing to watch all those cameras (a la the Israeli security fence), a wall would not be a particularly effective deterrent.”

Interesting. I don’t know Great Wall history, just thought it would be a good anology, but guess not. However, I feel pretty confident about us being able to build a wall that works, something mostly monitored electronically. I think we can come up with som infrared, motion detecting camera arrays that would give us enough warning to send in agents. Hell, line up some military bases on the fence. During peace time it will give the grunts something to do. And dogs…lots of dogs…maybe in between a double fence or something. I don’t know, is it that hard to build a fence that works, we can fly to the fricken moon for gods sakes. Obviously it won’t ever be perfect, but its got to have a substantial effect, even just the psychological, “stay the fuck out”, metaphorical meaning of it.

“Furthermore, a nuclear attack is only a bad idea if you represent a state-…”

I don’t entirely agree. Even the terrorist rely on propaganda to a large extent.

More to the point, how do terrorists get fissial material and then build a bomb, or get a bomb from even a rogue nation. Neither seems likely to me. Doesn’t mean you don’t pepare for the unlikely, but I don’t even see a bat-shit crazy dictator like Kim Jong il giving away such a profound instrument of anihilation. Their is bat-shit crazy, but that would take schizophrenia level nuts. And to do it with no word leaking out. Even if a dictator wanting to hand off a nuke to a terrorist existed, normal, sane scientist types who look over the day to day shit of keeping nukes around would probably leak that. God I would hope so. I don’t know, but my gut tells me its just unlikely, but I’m glad people fear it, because any chance of it happening is chance enough to do everything in our power to prevent it (within reason, lets not go invading another country right now.)

But your points are solid, and I appreciate your insight. I’m not being dismissive, more devil’s advocate. That goes for every debate I get in here. I’m here just as much to learn as to spread my own beliefs. With that philosophy alone, at least I know I’m better than any Feminist.

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Kimskinovgorod October 30, 2009 at 12:09

Rollory

Nope, nice try though…
But you´re right -let´s not go there…

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 12:25

They aren’t going to fight an outside force–they’re going to be acting as military police to prevent riots and looting at home, while continuing to maintain our physical presence abroad; this is why they would be stretched too thin. And it often only takes a lone dissenting voice of morality to stop an entire group of abusers of power (Abu Ghraib was ended by the dissent of single soldier, for example)–which is the reason I would want to join the MPs; to try to prevent them from abusing their power.

And the original point of the internet was to have critical data distributed rather than all stored in one physical location–while I can’t guarantee that the sort of data you’re talking about has been stored redundantly with this in mind, critical data transfer services (i.e., banking, medical data, and law enforcement data) can be routed via satellite even if the wired internet backbone is down due to power failure.

There are a number of extraordinarily scary aspects of the post-nuclear-terrorism scenario. The probable erosion of rights in the following years and months is certainly among them, as are the immediate problems of the collapse of infrastructure (no heat in the winter causing people to freeze to death, for example). As 9/11 showed, this country’s psyche is incredibly fragile (by comparison to, say, Israel, where bombings are simply a fact of life), and its aging infrastructure isn’t nearly redundant enough to withstand regular wear and tear, let alone an attack of this magnitude. But the society itself may be able to be saved if even a few are willing to fight for it when the time comes.

Of course, the subjugation of men’s rights is certainly a reason why some may not even want to try, so I can see where your predictions of doom and gloom are coming from.

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:29

“There are a number of extraordinarily scary aspects of the post-nuclear-terrorism scenario. ”

Fucking zombies man. I hear ya.

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zed October 30, 2009 at 12:41

Of course, the subjugation of men’s rights is certainly a reason why some may not even want to try, so I can see where your predictions of doom and gloom are coming from.

Actually, I see things upside down from how you present them in this statement.

I think “men” would rise to the occasion to protect those they cared about. In some respects, some social breakdown might be the best thing which ever happended to men.

I’m really referring to something else I have seen happen over a lot of years – a lot more than you have been alive.

It’s hard to describe to someone who hasn’t seen the “before” pictures exactly why the “after” pictures look different. But there is a viciousness in the culture which was totally absent 40 years ago. I didn’t watch a great deal of television back then, but I do remember pretty clearly that I never once saw a guy get clobbered in the balls as the staple of comedy it is today. I don’t own a TV and haven’t in over 35 years, but occasionally I see some of it at someone else’s house. The vicarous cruelty and rejoicing in someone’s misfortune in shows like The Apprentice and the Weakest Link would have been considered unbearably bad taste not long ago. The fact that they are so accepted now, and that people are gluttons for emotional roadkill like “Jon & Kate” indicates to me a resurgence of animal brutality and a loss of civilized values.

To me it seems a lot like the late stages of the Roman Empire when the masses were “entertained” by death in the Colosseum. What happened in New Orleans after Katrina is an indication of how some of our cultural values have decayed beyond recognition. Placed in a situation where the survival of a lot of people was threatened, I think a lot of people would be stunned by how savage people became and how quickly.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 12:45

To Jabherwochie:

You’re right to say that a terrorist would be ill advised to advertise that they used a nuke, but that just means that nobody would claim responsibility. You’re similarly correct to question the source of the fissile material–because of the more or less unique identifiability of where fissile material came from based on its level of enrichment and the imperfections present in the U-235, no state would willingly give out, or even sell, a nuke. For a while after the collapse of the Soviet Union there was some risk of fissile material being quietly taken by some Russian General and sold on the black market; such a person might have thought that they could avoid any sort of reprisal for such an action. But that particular danger has mostly passed. At this point, I’d say the greatest risk is the capture of a weapon in Pakistan, given the current state of turmoil there, but I’m sure that that is being closely monitored.

I don’t think we’re at high risk of nuclear terrorism in the next 20 years or so (it is foolish to project too far, however, given how rapidly the geopolitical climate can change), but the risk is never zero.

The US Mexico border is just shy of 2000 miles long. Placing cameras every 20 feet or so would require some half a million security cameras. Which will need IR capability to see at night. And will require a dedicated team of thousands to watch them. And still doesn’t prevent someone from just swimming up the coast. And a wall is even less practical along the US-Canadian border. My only suggestion as an option for a thing to do about illegal immigration is that we need stricter penalties for violators than simply deporting people, but I don’t have any ideas for good penalties, as the jails are already too full of guys who were caught with drugs to open them up to illegal immigrants as well.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 12:50

I agree with the Roman analogy. We, as a society, certainly show significant signs of decay. But I’m not certain that collapse is inevitable.

I agree that it is hard for me to fathom exactly what things were like then versus now. But I’ve heard enough talk from “The Greatest Generation” to know that you aren’t alone in the sentiment. And I’ve heard enough stories from “The Greatest Generation” to know that it isn’t all talk either.

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:52

“Of course, the subjugation of men’s rights is certainly a reason why some may not even want to try, so I can see where your predictions of doom and gloom are coming from.”

“Actually, I see things upside down from how you present them in this statement. ”

But would women gain new found respect for us if we did step up, or would we force them to respect us in that situation. Or would they beg us to help them. Which would serve our ends better, if we protect or dismiss them if the shit hits the fan. If we protect them, they may continue to male sacrifice for granted, if we dismiss them they may resent us more. Or if we protect them, it may make the gina’s tingle and respect us for it, or if we dismiss them, it might the ultimate neg, and the come crawling back to us willing to submit. I’m just asking?

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:54

continue to “take” male sacrifice for granted

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:55

I need to prood read more.

…it might “be”the ultimate neg, and “they” come….

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:55

“Proof” read. SHIT!

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 12:59

I’m starting over. Sorry.

“Of course, the subjugation of men’s rights is certainly a reason why some may not even want to try, so I can see where your predictions of doom and gloom are coming from.”

“Actually, I see things upside down from how you present them in this statement. ”

But would women gain new found respect for us if we did step up, or would we force them to respect us in that situation? Or would they beg us to help them? Which would serve our ends better, if we protect or dismiss them when the shit hits the fan. If we protect them, they may continue to take male sacrifice for granted, if we dismiss them they may resent us even more? Or if we protect them, it may make their gina’s tingle and respect us for it, or if we dismiss them, it might the be the ultimate neg, and they come crawling back to us willing to submit? I’m just asking?

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Jabherwochie October 30, 2009 at 13:01

Still made a fucking mistake. Oh well, you can read it now. Doing this at work is not the best idea.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 13:02

I don’t have an answer for that; my understanding of Game isn’t well enough developed to even try. I think it may depend heavily on the circumstances, though.

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21Guns October 30, 2009 at 13:12

Punishing illegal immigrants isn’t going to accomplish anything as long as long as there are companies here eager to hire them. And nobody’s going to punish the companies, because nobody wants to see food prices skyrocket.

On that front, we’re screwed.

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The Fifth Horseman October 30, 2009 at 13:13

America will NOT ‘collapse’. It is still in better shape than any other Western country.

But America will definitely see a stagnation in prosperity, that allows others to catch up. The lead America has is so great that this will take a while.

In fact, the US will still be the only superpower in 2030. This is definitely contingent on a rebalancing of the excess female power that presently exists, but as I state often, the pendulum is swinging back, at least for men who take action.

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Proud Obama Voter October 30, 2009 at 13:30

Rollory-
I didn’t think Paul’s far-right stances were any mystery so that’s why I did not exhort him t0 “come clean” like Palin. Like you, I think secession is a great idea. The problem is going without all the funds that come from the Federal gov’t for security and infrastructure, among other things. I am actually a little surprised that you say “those who want Dominionism can have it” as Dominionist’s whole objective is to conquer the world, or at least as much of it as they can, and bring about the conditions necessary for Jesus to come to earth. I think Sarah Palin has a right to fight for the causes she supports, but she should not hide it behind a veneer of fighting for Main Street USA.

zed-
“Kicking in the balls” T.V. culture is a great way to describe it, and is why i stopped watching tv 6 years ago. Except for a very few shining examples, it’s a race to the bottom of how vicious and banal and brainwashed society can get.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 13:43

There’s still decent programming. When I was in college and I needed to get work done, I’d often put on “How It’s Made”, a history channel documentary, or C-SPAN as background noise. “Special Ops Mission”, on the Military channel (or was it the Pentagon channel?) was pretty good…basically a show where you get to watch former military people in a live war game (which they say is unscripted).

What there isn’t, is any sort of decent fiction of any kind. Comedy shows are a repetitive sequence of the same bad one-liners and annoying sight gags. Reality shows are the bane of human existence. “Drama” is basically all relationship drama, rather than internal character struggle drama or man against the world drama. Action shows barely exist, and are typically soured by relationship drama.

And then the industry experts wonder why so many people in my generation would rather watch cartoons in a language they don’t speak than anything they put on television.

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Arbitrary October 30, 2009 at 13:51

To 21guns:
I was just trying to say that it’s the only practical way to reduce illegal immigration. I am not at all certain we’d be better off if we did.

To Fifth Horseman:
I agree with you, but not for any singularity related reasons. A lot of people seem to be afraid of China and India right now, but neither of these countries has the right sort of culture to become a superpower. Both China and India have improved their situation to where they are now by churning out a large number of people trained to repeat existing solutions by rote…it’s the same problem as Feynman identified for Brazil; almost none of them are learning how to think–the few that are are coming here to the US or elsewhere in the West. But, because of the crap that is US immigration law, as well as growing problems in our higher education system, a lot of them are starting to leave and return to their home countries. Reversing this trend will essentially guarantee that India and China will not surpass the US; failing to do so allows them some chance to reintegrate and change.

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Dave from Hawaii October 30, 2009 at 13:58

POV – You’re “lesser of two evils” approach to voting is nothing more than you fooling yourself. You think you’re justified in voting for Obama just because he’s not Bush? Or McCain? You’re fooling yourself…you are falling for the exact rationale that Obama’s campaign was based on. You are basically admitting that you were a willing dupe, a useful idiot, for the Obama campaign. And you’re proud of it? You fool.

Voting for the lesser of two evils…is still voting for evil.

You think Obama is only slightly worse than the Bush/Cheney cabal…yet you’re proud of voting for him? That’s like saying supporting the Gambino’s makes you a better person because you’re not supporting the Gotti’s.

Put down the kool aid, and stop being a useful idiot. Voting for Obama made NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOVER to the current status quo of the United States of Fascist Communitarian Democracy aka authoritarian corporatocracy. Obama is just as fascist as Dubya ever was…because they are BOTH nothing more than puppets for the true power elite.

Bush gave out TARP funds…so did Obama.
Bush started the war in Afghanistan…Obama is escalating it.
Bush started the war in Iraq…Obama made a show of bringing a bunch of troops home — and replaced them with an equivalent amount of private contractors.

How’s that hope and change you’re so proud of, working out again?

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The Fifth Horseman October 30, 2009 at 14:08

Arbitrary,

The population of the West is about 800m.

The triangle enclosed by drawing lines from Karachi to Jakarta to Tokyo has about 5 times that number of people. 60% of humanity in just one half of one continent.

So it doesn’t take much for Asia to become the largest economic region in absolute size (which it was for all of human history until about 1820). The 200-year aberration from 1820-2020 when they were anything but the largest economic zone will soon be ending.

But in per capita terms, they will still be far lower than America, for the reasons you mention. That is the crux of the issue.

The media will do a lot of orgasmic gesticulations once China’s economy surpasses the US in size, and a lot of people will be duped by that soundbyte, failing to consider that China’s per-capita would still be less than a quarter of America’s, and that immigration between the two would still be in mostly one direction.

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Proud Obama Voter October 30, 2009 at 14:19

Dave-
If anyone was expecting Obama to become President and then heal the economy and stop the wars with magic ponies, they deserve to be disappointed. However, I hear you about Obama being a status quo enabler and I very well may be calling myself “Regretful Obama Voter” in a few months. In my opinion, we all need to start getting used to the fact that the conception of U.S. as the world superpower is beyond unsustainable, and I think most other potential Presidents (given current options) are simply not as mentally or emotionally prepared as Obama to responsibly handle the situation. The bailouts drive me freaking crazy, though, and if the GOP ever gets their shit together (doubtful) they may end up being the one thing that becomes his downfall in 2012.

But what we do not see from Obama that we saw from Cheney is the willful pursuit of using government to deliberately fuck shit up, which private companies can then put back together with our tax money. The Bush/Cheney Administration was basically structured as a ten-ton battering ram made to “create opportunities” for politically-connected corporations and contractors to make a buck. If McCain had gotten elected, I really think we would have attacked Iran by now, who would be blockading the mideast oil trade, and gas would be costing 30 bucks a gallon.

In the end we are in the hands of a deeply corrupt system. Before 2008 i had always voted for third parties and after 2008 I may continue that.

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 14:31

Look, his position does not designate him as alpha. He won a popularity contest—when the other guy was painted as the right-hand-man of the guy in charge when the financial debacle happened.

Nobama asked Bush for the TARP and voted for it. he owns it as much as Bush does.

Nobama is a pussy. I have no doubt a world leader could walk up to him during a public event and spit in his face, and he would slink away and not stand up for himself. He is a coward, plain and simple.

Now picture this happeneing to Bush/McCain/either CLinton/ Reagan/etc. They wouldn’t take it lying down.

Beta-in-Chief.

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 14:32

Proud Nobama Voter, you are as delusional about the Bush years (i see you follow the SWPLer meme of calling them the “Bush-Cheney years” btw, nice job on continuing the lie) as you are about the future under the Pussy-in-Chief.

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 14:37

Notmypresident’s proud follower:

“The Bush/Cheney Administration was basically structured as a ten-ton battering ram made to “create opportunities” for politically-connected corporations and contractors to make a buck.”
—got proof???

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Proud Obama Voter October 30, 2009 at 14:46

Lurker-

For Proof.
The tonality of your message is such that I can tell I’m wasting my time, but you should check out http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 15:26

lmao.,

No wonder you’re sucha delusional shit, Idiot Nobama Voter.

You’re quoting Naomi Klein as your proof.

Why not just quote Fidel Castro, Keith Olbermann, and Hugo Chavez? and get it over with, tool?

Here’s a hint: when you quote unintellectual, moronic tools as your sources, you deserve to be laughed at and ignored.

Don’t waste thinking people’s time. Go back to the DailyKos where you belong, you moronic partisan hack, and live in your fantasies about the Evil Bushes and Cheneys and how wonderfully you’d suck Nobama’s cock.

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 15:27

Anyone who voted for Nobama is a herd following sheep and needs to re-prove any alpha credentials they previously burnished.

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 15:49

Note how the Idiot Nobama Cocksucker has run away like the mincing little nancy boy he is.

It’s people like that brainless twat that Ffcking drove this country to ruin.

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Ressentiment October 30, 2009 at 18:16

Roissy (and the others): “come to think of it, even if obama believes in the art of baring the belly in submission on principle, he would still be beta, because betatude is defined as much by behavior as by attitude.”

So was Jesus ultimately a beta?

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Ressentiment October 30, 2009 at 18:18

…a beta boy, I mean.

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lurker October 30, 2009 at 19:23

Yes. Jesus was beta.

Christianity teaches the concept of betahood from its onset. Even the other abrahamic religions teach only respect for the law—conquering people in war, for example, is not murder for either Jews or Muslims, so not prohibited. Islam allows for conversion by the sword, while Judaism’s 10 commandments only apply to Jews against Jews; Jews can do anything they want to non-Jews, per a strict reading.

It amazes me how Christianity became a conqueror’s religion at all; but then again, most adherents of Islam and Judaism and Hindu and Buddhism have apparent contradictions they seem to argue with. But Christianity is ultimately about betahood—-turn the other cheek, no money or ambition, forgive all transgressions, show no anger, only compassion.

That feminists should argue it is anti-women shows just how illogical feminism is.

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Chuck October 30, 2009 at 20:03

i don’t want to get too far off track by saying that jesus was definitively a beta. obviously he was a leader of men to some extent. if the historical jesus existed, then we’d have to assume that quite a few people followed him despite the consequences of doing so.

either way, he spoke with such a force that the romans feared him. and they killed him for it. this means he was alpha be virtue of his impact, he wasn’t alpha by virtue of his station – his lack of status or wealth.

if i had to pick , i’d say jesus was alpha, but many of his followers were beta.

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nilk October 31, 2009 at 02:39

Bush started the bail out you idiot. Obama had no choice but to carry through. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Like Obama had to continue the missile defence treaty with Poland?

Rubbish.

Obama is all about centralised power, and the bail out started the ball rolling. He’s done nothing but piss off allies and suck up to enemies since he got in.

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Glengarry October 31, 2009 at 03:45

Kimskinovgorod, for the Netherlands, recall the murder of Theo Van Gogh and driving Ayaan Hirsi Ali out of the country (tacitly cheered on by the government, in particular some tool named Donk, I seem to recall). And googling for terrorism in Denmark easily shows that arrests are being made. For example:

“Police said the men were believed to have been manufacturing explosives for use in a series of attacks, whose precise target has not been revealed. They were arrested in the city of Odense and are being held under anti-terrorism laws introduced in the wake of the 9-11 attacks in the United States. “One person had a native Danish background,” said Danish Justice Minister Lene Espersen. “The others have outside ethnic backgrounds. But most are Danish citizens and this is what I find the most scary. These are people with tight connections with Denmark and yet who’ve come a long way planning an act of terror.” Police said the arrests followed a long surveillance operation. Denmark fears terrorist attacks as it has a military presence in Iraq.” (05/09/06 according to the source)

and

“In Denmark, eight people have been arrested on suspicion of planning a bomb attack. Authorities say the young Muslim men have links to senior members of al-Qaeda. The arrests follow a raid early this morning on an address in the capital, Copenhagen. Denmark’s Security Intelligence Service believes the operation prevented a certain “act of terror” but it has refused to reveal who or what country was the target.

It is the latest in a series of arrests Danish authorities have made since passing anti-terrorism legislation in the wake of the September 11th attacks on the United States.” (04/09/07 according to source)

and

“A newspaper in Denmark which published cartoons about Islam is believed to have been the intended target of a terrorist plot.

Two men have been arrested in the American city of Chicago and according to US police, were planning a series of over seas attacks.

It’s alleged the two were outraged by the paper’s publication of drawings of the Prophet Mohammed.

The arrests were a result of a joint US and Danish security operation.

Jakob Scharf, Director General Danish Intelligence Service outlined what the operation had discovered.

“One of the arrested individuals has an extensive network that includes leading militant extremists in Pakistan who not only wish to strike against Denmark, but who have previously proven capable of performing ruthless acts of terrorism.” ” (just a couple of days ago, 28/10)

All smoke and no fire? Have fun.

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lurker October 31, 2009 at 11:30

Chuck, he was killed by indifferent Romans at the behest of a small cadre of local Jewish authorities, who saw him drawing followers away from dogmatic Judaism—and for his welcoming of goy and non-goy to his flock. And then the natural human desire for bloodlust kicked in.

The fact that people followed him doesn’t make him a leader. People will follow the sun and sand if you don’t tell them any better.

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Kimskinovgorod October 31, 2009 at 11:37

glengarry

NONE of those were sentenced or are, at present state, in jail…
Show-off for the press and the americans…
I will…You too..

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Kimskinovgorod October 31, 2009 at 11:39

glengarry

As for the Netherlands..I stand corrected..that makes it one person!!

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Kimskinovgorod October 31, 2009 at 12:29

glengarry

Just told my girl about the alledged “terrorist attacks” on Denmark…She´s still rolling on the floor, laughing her ass off !!! What really happened were, that a bunch of kids were experimenting with firecrackers…Lol!!!…And they got slapped on the wrist, yelled at by the police, and send back to their mothers!!
The only terrorist attacks in Denmark, are the bakeries´ constant bombardment with cholesterol to the arteries…And that won´t kill you for at least another 30 or 40 years!! Let´s try not to blow this out of proportion, and cause hysteria, where it´s not needed, people. This kind of hysteria, and the subsequent control of people, is probably causing more damage to your personal freedom, than the deeds themselves, and are most likely a part of the grand scheme, too…The drawer of the cartoons just stated on the news, that he´d wish that people would just call him on the phone, because this was getting too expensive for the danish society…It was a misspelled letter, okay ?? The Netherlands are..well, the Netherlands and not Denmark…

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G October 31, 2009 at 19:45

<>
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/22/531492.aspx

1 + 1 = 2. End of discussion.

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G October 31, 2009 at 19:46

The quoted text for the above comment should read

“My father was from Kenya and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn’t practice Islam. Truth is he wasn’t very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. “

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Chuck Ross November 14, 2009 at 12:42

in the comments above someone pointed out that in my analysis i left out our other enemy during WWII – Japan.

this story today shows Obama taking a deeeeeep bow to Japan’s emperor reaffirming my argument that Obama is indeed beta. Horrific shit.

Krauser November 16, 2009 at 09:38
G January 12, 2010 at 19:23

The Obama team tried to schedule a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and was told he was at the airport readying to leave. Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva also was unavailable. South African President Jacob Zuma said there was no point meeting without India and Brazil. Then the Chinese pushed the bilateral meeting back to 7 p.m.

"We were told they were at the airport," a senior administration official said. "We were told delegations were split up. We were told they weren't going to meet." So imagine Mr. Obama's surprise when he arrived for the bilateral powwow and found all four leaders in the room already in deep discussion. "Are you ready for me?" he said with an "uncharacteristic edge" to his voice, according to a CBS News report.

Can you be more beta than this?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/23/obama-the-party-crasher/

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Stallywood April 5, 2010 at 23:19

Voting for Obama, lost all credibility for the post.

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Stallywood April 5, 2010 at 23:22

Voting for Obama is voting for Biden, which is indirect support of the VAWA. Nuff said.

Stally

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