Country Women – The Manly Woman of Honor, Part I

Country Women - Shepherdess and Her Flock, Daniel Ridgway Knight

by Jack Donovan on October 25, 2009

On the heels of Welmer’s post about women in combat, I’d like to add a few thoughts I’ve had about women, “female masculinity” and honor over the past several years. To begin, I’m going to talk about some different types of women I’ve observed.

I deliver exercise equipment to people’s homes for a living, and as an amateur sociologist—aren’t we all really amateur sociologists?—that gives me an opportunity to see people in their natural environments. The clients I deal with, or at least the ones who are home to take the deliveries, are predominantly women.  I make deliveries all over the state, and I spend a good deal of time in each house. An average day might have me delivering an elliptical trainer to a new mom in suburbia, then a treadmill to marathon-running professional woman in town, then a home gym way out in the country. I’ve built several home gyms in barns. Occasionally, I’ll even install something in the lavish gym of a mansion, where I deal with that increasingly rare creature known as a “lady”—a refined, polite woman of authority for whom running an estate is at least as demanding as your average middle management job.

I’ve definitely noticed a difference in the way these women from very different walks of life assert themselves around working men. Upwardly mobile professional women tend to impatient and dismissive of the physical aspects of the job; they’re pushy and treat men like underlings. The “lady” has what I’d call the female equivalent of Game. She makes you want to do things for her. When I meet a lady I find myself waiting on her hand and foot, going above and beyond simply because she makes it seem like the thing to do. Most of the suburban stay-at-home moms are relaxed and easy to work with, even when they’re particular.

There are many variations on these types and exceptions to every rule. My favorite women to deal with, though, are the country women.

Here’s the thing—most of these babes can drive tractors and know more about engines than I ever will. I’ve had them offer to help load something up onto their all-terrain vehicles for me and drive it out through the mud to the barn, like it was no big deal. Country women are not afraid to get dirty. Most can probably handle a weapon—or judging from the gun safes, are at least used to having them around. They pull their own weight. They are not spoiled.

What I’ve noticed is that even though they do all of these manly things most of them seem more comfortable with traditional gender roles and with men in general than many of their urban and suburban counterparts. They seem to be at once less threatened by men, and more respectful of them. They seem to be aware of sex differences, perhaps because they’ve worked side by side with men. They don’t have a chip on their shoulders. They are feminine in a natural way, but they are strong when they have to be.  They know how to act around the boys. They know how to be strong women without asking men to change to accommodate them. They want their men to act like men.

It’s easy for spoiled urban and suburban women to live in a fantasy world where men and women are essentially the same, because so little is demanded of either men or women. Men and women are (almost) equally protected from bad guys and nature by the police, firefighters, ambulances, the military, and The Law. Men and women probably are equally good at pushing paper around and sitting through conference calls. In fact, women might even be a bit better at necessarily passive-aggressive, bureaucratic office politics and middle management. I’ve seen a lot of young men, myself included, go cubicle-crazy, like boys in school waiting for recess.

These are just my observations. Our society, which produces far less than it consumes, is doing away with the kinds of jobs that men prefer and do best. Very few jobs put men or women under the kind of stress that widens the gender gap. They have become so exotic that we follow shows like Dirty Jobs, Ax Men, Deadliest Catch and Ice Road Truckers on the same channels we learn about foreign cultures, ancient history and cavemen. But our pleasant, protected society is also likely, in fashionable parlance, unsustainable.

If Americans ever decide to stop farming out all of the hard work to other countries, one has to wonder how long feminism in its current form will last. Will women really want to do those jobs—so far away from Starbucks and office potlucks? If our society becomes more balanced and begins producing its own goods again, if that is suddenly where the jobs are, women will want to stay home with the kids. If that happens, I bet country girls will have a lot to teach spoiled modern women both about how to be strong women, and how to let men be men.

{ 65 comments… read them below or add one }

Eman October 25, 2009 at 15:45

A ‘White nationalist’ viewpoint of the modern dating scene: http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/10/25/the-dating-scene/

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Jack Donovan October 25, 2009 at 16:46

Well, what you wrote there definitely seems to have some crossover with a lot of the content on this site.

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if people don’t freak out over you saying the words “white nationalist” and everyone decides to comment on the content of the original article instead.

Bhetti October 25, 2009 at 16:54

I have not seen one female of the country species. Not one. In my two decades of being alive.

It’s very difficult to resolve being comfortable as a woman and understanding that you can have your own brand of feminine strength, without trying to become a man.

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Welmer October 25, 2009 at 17:18

@Bhetti

Do you spend ALL your time locked up in the city?

Go take a trip to Ireland or France and spend some time in the country.

I would recommend l’Auvergne. Never saw a more bucolic setting in Europe. Never seen such beautiful, rolling hills of wheat, except in the Palouse.

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Phoenixism October 25, 2009 at 18:03

Rather insightful, your mapping of the corporate, modern-day bureaucratic office environment which, in its present, 21st Century incarnation, seems keenly constructed with the female temperament in mind.

The very state of “bureaucracy” and its meddlesome and repetitive formulations and incessant meetings and verbiose conferences does seem a bit girlie. After a typical day at the office I’m driven to slay a few dragons :)

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JohnnyBravo October 25, 2009 at 18:44

Notice how the empowered career-minded women felt the need to diminish you and your labor, despite presumably being higher on the social totempole than you. Insecurities much?

Also I wouldn’t say that the ladies (boy that term has almost lost its meaning nowadays) used “Game” on you. As a matter of fact, I consider it a matter of now lost civility. They are acutely aware of their physical inability to lug heavy stuff around, and despite possibly being reserved toward a male stranger, they can appreciate and respect the sweat of your brow. You have to haul the equipment around and install it anyway, you just mind doing so less because your work is not diminished, and because she does not need to assert her superiority over you (in that particular situation) in overly crude and antagonistic ways like the aforementioned career women.

Also, it does not feel like you are competing with her by performing your task (even if we consciously choose not to compete, someone making us sense that there is a competition going on will immediately result in a more tense environment), unlike the career-minded women. She is probably more aware of the complementary nature of men and women, and as such has nothing to prove by pushing you around, since the two of you are not even playing the same sport, let alone competing in the same league (figuratively speaking).

Thus, you can apply your physical labor (which is innately more satisfying to us guys because of the immediate results) without pressure, and knowing that she is thankful for your effort. That’s what makes the whole thing much easier.

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Jack Donovan October 25, 2009 at 19:16

Regarding “the lady,” yes, all of the above, but here’s how my last experience with a “lady” came down.

* She remembered my name from when I made my confirmation call and greeted me with “You must be Jack…” then shook my hand and invited me inside.
*She was very well dressed, in a conservative way, appropriate for a woman her age (mid 50s). In heels and a suit with a knee length skirt mid-day, and I don’t think she had what we’d call a “job” per se to go to.
*She led me upstairs graciously, and then after we had carried a 350lb treadmill upstairs, through her master bedroom and into her workout room, she asked “Oh my, that looks heavy. How much does that weigh?” (Career gals don’t care. They just want you to get it done and not bitch up their stuff.)
*She asked ever so politely if there was anything she needed to know, and I spontaneously came up with useful tips I don’t normally tell other customers. She was delighted.
*On the way downstairs, and this is what I would classify as game, she said, “Would you guys like some water for the road?” Normally, I say no, because I always have some in the car, but she just had this air about her that made if feel as though it would be impolite to refuse. So I said, “Yes.” She said, “I bet you’d rather have a beer.” I joked, “Well, we still have to drive all the way back to Portland.” She laughed and walked down into the kitchen and grabbed two bottles of water that were already sitting out on the counter. She hands the water to me with one hand, and says “Here’s your water…” and with the other hand slips me a $20 bill. “And that’s for some beers on the way home.”

That’s fucking CLASS. She had that whole exchange planned before she even walked upstairs. We get tips every so often. Many smaller, some bigger. Most of the time people don’t tip, even though we do a hell of a lot more than deliver a pizza. But that lady obviously made an impression on me. That’s a combination of good breeding, etiquette training and a truly decent woman.

dragnet October 26, 2009 at 00:36

A ‘White nationalist’ viewpoint of the modern dating scene: http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/10/25/the-dating-scene/

I’m confused. I clicked the link and I read a short post about how women go for jerks and assholes, and are now largely bereft of any class or moral character. What is “white” or “nationalist” about this viewpoint, exactly?

**crickets chirping**

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Paul October 26, 2009 at 02:41

It could be as long ago as 20 years since Rich Zubati wrote his book ‘What Men Know and Women Don’t ‘. He makes the same point then as is made in passing above. That is that work has become female. It is women whose brains like to organise, count and and tidy things. This is the work of the modern office and much else as well. So if work has become female then society will become female as well.

Personally I think society is female no matter what the nature of work is. It is just that in the past the male slaves where a bit more valued than they are today.

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JohnnyBravo October 26, 2009 at 05:12

Jack: As I said, a simple matter of “ladies” behaving in a much more civilized an agreeable manner.

Let’s go point by point:

1. By making the effort to remember your name she shows you that she does not consider you an underling, interloper or miscreant who is beneath her. She gives you a proper greeting bereft of any status posturing. These are two actions one can no longer expect from the empowered sort, who would have struck the first two blows in her mental status struggle by being indifferent about who you are (you are completely interchangeable) and by not properly acknowledging you (you are beneath me). Big points here for all true ladies.

2. Proper dress. This is one we lost a long time ago, with generation adult-child trying its best to signal “indifference” and “lack of respect” (misconstrued as “coolness” and “casualness”) through their clothing. This is not a female flaw per se, it can be found in men just as often.

By dressing properly, she once again showed you respect, but also made herself look more respectable in a non-aggressive manner. I guess we will never know if she dressed for the occasion, but either way it’s win-win. If she dressed for the occasion she showed that she respects others around her (considering them more than mere insects who may crawl around as much as they like while she is insufficiently dressed in full view), and if that is her normal day-to-day dress, it shows that she values respectability more than any of the modern sham values. Either way, the ladies win out again by being a treat to look at at any age and managing to elevate their status without being pushy.

3. An obvious sign of respect for your effort. She would ordinarily not have to care about the weight of the equipment since she will never have to carry it herself, but by asking that simple question she immediately shows her empathy and respect for your work.

For all their tall talk about awareness and how we’re all, like, connected, man, the empowered sort is surprisingly (or perhaps not so) callous and lacking in empathy for her fellow human beings, unless they are a distant abstraction (cerebral palsy sufferers in Bhutan or something like that).

4. She showed respect for your proficiency in your area of expertise. You would never find that in the empowered sort, who consider their own, narrow, particular areas of interest the be-all and end-all of important knowledge. You could have all the experience in the world in your field and know all the ins and outs, and they’d still wave you off, thinking that they’ll have it figured out in no time (how hard could it be?).

5. I wouldn’t exactly consider it game. Is the purpose of game not to get something out of people? Why, then, use game to give you money? To me it seems this just shows how aware this particular lady was of the differences between men and women.

She used a rather indirect way to tip you because she knew all about male pride. We like to put in our best effort when we feel our work is valued by someone even if we don’t get any extra money for it, but extra money never hurts. Put on the spot, however, many men will feel awkward about taking extra money for putting in their best effort, because our pride dictates that we should have put in our best effort without any extra payment.

So she constructed a situation in which you could accept the tip without bothering your pride. That, indeed, is class, because it takes a lot of character and a long time to appreciate men for what and who they are enough to be able to put in such a concentrated effort to treat them with the proper respect they deserve.

Just considering all of the above and contrasting it with the garish, vile, inconsiderate, loutish brute that is the empowered modern woman today is kind of depressing.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 07:21

Well, what you wrote there definitely seems to have some crossover with a lot of the content on this site.
Yes, but it doesn’t really relate to the article specifically. Or am I missing something?

Regarding “the lady,” yes, all of the above, but here’s how my last experience with a “lady” came down.

Sounds like she’s just… normal. Nice and polite. Is that so unusual nowadays?

I miss country women. I used to live in a small town in the countryside (in Germany). We live in suburbia now and the women here are like peacocks; just for display. And there seemed to be more marriage and less divorce out there.

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JohnnyBravo October 26, 2009 at 08:34

“Sounds like she’s just… normal. Nice and polite. Is that so unusual nowadays?”

Depends. From my experience (though at this point it must be said that I live in a more traditionalist, that’s chauvinist fascist patriarchy to all you feminists, country) the women in many couples with solid middle class values were similar, though possibly a bit coarser in their conduct. Nonetheless, a charm to be around and good people, I don’t recall ever having thought “wow what a cunt” even once all the times I have been around them. Whenever the wives took a swing at their husbands, it always seemed in good nature, ie making out a good quality to be a flaw (so technically it was more like subtle praise). They always went as far as they could to make sure that we, the guests, would feel welcome, even when they were personally swamped.

On the other hand, upper class couples where both husband and wife have a university education did contain quite a few bad apples, and I distinctly recall a few moments where I was literally flabbergasted by how bitchy, rude and petty some of the wives acted towards their husband and their guests.

So over here in these good old-fashioned parts I’ve seen the sweetest middle class wives (who by no means were “enslaved” by their husband or whatever the femtalk du jour is) and the most unbearable “SWPL-ized” educated wives.

I guess the more modern you are nowadays, the more likely you are to be a self-centered, crass, ill-mannered idiot.

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njartist49 October 26, 2009 at 08:45

I spent twenty-five years in N.C.; country women are not different.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 10:04

What is a SWPL?

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kis October 26, 2009 at 10:21

On the other hand, upper class couples where both husband and wife have a university education did contain quite a few bad apples, and I distinctly recall a few moments where I was literally flabbergasted by how bitchy, rude and petty some of the wives acted towards their husband and their guests.

I know a couple in town here who absolutely stymie me. Not upper class or educated by any stretch of the imagination, but the way the wife talks to her husband in public–OMG, I can’t imagine talking to ANYONE that way, let alone the man I was supposed to love, and in public? I’m not talking backhanded compliments or affectionate teasing–this is all-out belittling and disrespect. I watch them interact and I wish he’d just tell her she’s a heinous cunt and walk away. There’s a difference between good-natured ribbing or indulgent, sardonic teasing and that shit. Oy.

But nope, he just sits there and takes it, or chuckles and says, “Well, that’s Jeannie for you.” WTF?

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Novaseeker October 26, 2009 at 10:31

It’s very true what you have written here, Jack.

My main concern about this phenomenon, though, is that as we continue to eliminate the kinds of jobs men excel at, we are going to be creating a large male underclass which is underutilized and likely going to be pissed as hell. That is not a recipe for a stable future. The “knowledge economy” is one thing, but in order for our country to be stable and not become a place like Brazil we need to find good work for our proles — men and women alike, but mostly men in this context, really — to do. We’re failing at that now, and it’s a real concern for the future that is simply not being addressed at all, really. If we continue to not address it, we will slide gradually towards becoming like Brazil — a country with a very successful yet small top 10%, and a lot of itinerant, poor proles.

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Novaseeker October 26, 2009 at 10:33

On the other hand, upper class couples where both husband and wife have a university education did contain quite a few bad apples, and I distinctly recall a few moments where I was literally flabbergasted by how bitchy, rude and petty some of the wives acted towards their husband and their guests.

So over here in these good old-fashioned parts I’ve seen the sweetest middle class wives (who by no means were “enslaved” by their husband or whatever the femtalk du jour is) and the most unbearable “SWPL-ized” educated wives.

Remember, this is about women feeling empowered. Men who can’t deal with that are “threatened by powerful women”. At least that’s what these women have been trained to believe.

I’ve had to explain this to my ex more than once: no, it’s not that people don’t like it when you act like that because you have two X chromosomes, it’s because it’s frankly rude, regardless of your sex.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 11:03

What is a SWPL? I’ll just keep posting that until I get an answer or am banned. Is there a list of acronyms somewhere? Took me forever to figure out LJBF. I thought it had something to do with lesbians and bisexuals. LOL.

I’ve had to explain this to my ex more than once: no, it’s not that people don’t like it when you act like that because you have two X chromosomes, it’s because it’s frankly rude, regardless of your sex.

Amen. It’s just plain-out rude. It seems that a lot of MRA stuff could be summed up with:
Please treat us like human beings and not like a piece of shit.

My female friends often ask me for marriage advice and it tends to go something like this:

Me: So why did you call?
Her: I need your advice.
Me: Okay, shoot.
Her: Well, last night I asked my husband to watch a movie with me. That really romantic one called X. But as soon as we get on the couch, he’s slobbering all over me. It really upset me so I told him to leave me alone and go play on his computer.
Me: Uh huh. So what’s your question?
Her: How can I get him to just cuddle with me without him getting all horny? I’ve seen YOUR husband cuddle with you. How do you get him to do that?
Me: That’s easy. Have sex with him and THEN cuddle.
Her: (shocked pause) I can’t believe you said that.
Me: Why not?
Her: If I wanted to have sex with him, I’d have sex with him. Obviously the point is that I just want to cuddle.
Me: Answer me this: Did he agree to sit down and watch that sappy chick-flick with you?
Her: Yes
Me: I’m sure he didn’t want to. He just agreed to do it because YOU wanted to. See where I’m going with this? When’s the last time you guys had sex?
Her: (long silence) I can’t really remember. Last month sometime. I’ve just been so tired, you know. I’m not really in the mood.
Me: LAST MONTH! And you wonder why he can’t get near you without foaming at the mouth? Go shag your husband and quit wasting my time. *click*

I must have gone through 4 variations of that phone call with various women. Only one (my very best friend) took my advice, though. And yes, he did cuddle with her with the couch afterward.
It’s not that the other women didn’t think it would work, they just thought it an affront to their dignity to even suggest such a thing. OMG, you mean I should treat him the way he treats me, as if he was a human being? What a radical suggestion!

These women call me for advice because they think I have my husband “whipped” and that he’s kind to me out of fear or some sort of Jedi mind trick. They usually stop calling eventually because they don’t like what they hear. It’s a good way to cull my friends though; very few make the cut but only the best remain. Good wives make the best friends.

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JohnnyBravo October 26, 2009 at 11:20

Black&German: SWPL stands for stuff white people like (coming from the blog of the same name; google it), basically the new set of morality and ethics of the ultraliberal yuppie class.

Novaseeker: One guy who is a very good family friend dealt with his “empowered” woman. He dealt with her good alright. Told her he is no longer going to put up with her petty, plotting, nagging bullshit now that their child is old enough to handle them getting a divorce (and the whole thing was triggered by another event which perfectly illustrated the “all me all the time” mode many “empowered” women seem to be permanently stuck in) and divorced her ass. Then he married a 27-year old (he’s in his early 50s, as is his ex-wife) banker, and a new child is on its way.

I know the words “female” and “banker” put next to each other evoke mental images of a ball-busting shrike, but his new wife is sweet as hell. She does have her moments (hey, nobody is expecting perfection, at least not anymore), but her words never have a sharp edge to them, possibly because she is in the business of scamming people into buying financial voodoo magic, so she knows how to handle people without flat-out insulting them.

Love the way he handled it. No “let’s stay friends for the sake of the children” bullshit, he flat-out gave her the verbal ass-whopping of her life, broke to her that he was cheating on her the past few months with his current wife, then left. Now she’s all alone from what I hear, and he is dabbling in local high society (the sister of his wife is a minor actress and model who is dating a prolific comedy writer), having all kinds of glamorous and other fruity shit going on in his life, and he’s in vacation mode 24/7/365 (divorce laws are a lot kinder towards men here, so even though the harpy got a lot he kept the bulk of what he earned).

And you know what? Everyone we know congratulated him on his decision, with the sole exception of another shrike who is just waiting to have her ass similarly put out in the street.

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Welmer October 26, 2009 at 11:22

@B&G

“SWPL” is the acronym for “stuff white people like.” There’s a website about it:

Stuff White People Like

It’s written by Christian Lander, and pokes fun at liberal, trendy urban white people in the US.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 11:30

Oh, okay. Thanks.

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kis October 26, 2009 at 11:53

From the Urban Dictionary:

“This acronym refers to the popular blog “Stuff White People Like.” One must always refer to and recognize this universal short hand or else one’s peers will brand you a cultural philistine.”

Hey, B&G, at least being black, you’re off the hook. Me, I guess I’m a cultural philistine. Go me!

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zed October 26, 2009 at 12:12

pokes fun at liberal, trendy urban white people in the US.

With overtones that they are unbelievably stupid herd creatures. Starbucks is sort of the ultimate symbol of “Stuff White People Like” – people stupid enough to pay $5 for a $1 cup of coffee simply because it comes frothed up and disguised with cool-sounding foreign names.

It’s the same principle as people who pay $50 for a $10 sweatshirt with a $40 name on it.

Would you care for a nice helping of résidus de taureau?

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 12:45

For good coffee, go to Italy. A good bet for home (without breaking the budget) is a Senseo machine.
I do sometimes break down and buy a $3 cup of coffee when I’m out and about. But that’s just because I have a slight caffeine addiction.

Anyway,

Hey, B&G, at least being black, you’re off the hook. Me, I guess I’m a cultural philistine. Go me!

I got confused when I first saw the blog title because I was thinking of this one:
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/
LOL. Totally different concept.

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Novaseeker October 26, 2009 at 13:05

I must have gone through 4 variations of that phone call with various women. Only one (my very best friend) took my advice, though. And yes, he did cuddle with her with the couch afterward.
It’s not that the other women didn’t think it would work, they just thought it an affront to their dignity to even suggest such a thing. OMG, you mean I should treat him the way he treats me, as if he was a human being? What a radical suggestion!

It’s all a part of the mentality from feminism that sex in marriage is purely optional and entirely up to the female. The converse of that isn’t that rape is permitted. The converse is that as a wife, women have some obligations, including sexual ones … as a husband does as well. There are some wives in sexless marriages where they would like to have sex, but husband doesn’t want to (porn can be an issue in these marriages). Men and women alike need to realize that sex is an integral part of marriage — it isn’t something you can opt out of for months on end without wrecking the marriage. Spouses are not supposed to be celibate roommates.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 13:20

I agree COMPLETELY Novaseeker.

It’s a pet-peeve of mine, actually. And some of these same women were shagging their men’s brains out UNTIL they got married (which is completely backward, IMO).

I know of one porn-induced separation, unfortunately. His wife is really attractive, too, but he’s just completely incapable of getting it up for a normal woman anymore. It’s really sad.

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Novaseeker October 26, 2009 at 13:45

It’s a pet-peeve of mine, actually. And some of these same women were shagging their men’s brains out UNTIL they got married (which is completely backward, IMO).

But all too common in the carrot and stick environment we live in now, sadly.

I know of one porn-induced separation, unfortunately. His wife is really attractive, too, but he’s just completely incapable of getting it up for a normal woman anymore. It’s really sad.

And the main reason I have railed against porn use on my own blog. At bottom, it desensitizes men to real women. That is the issue for *men*. It deprives men of meaningful sex and intimacy with real women if it is misused. I can go on and on about that, but I sense there is no need as we seem to agree on this.

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zed October 26, 2009 at 16:52

It’s a pet-peeve of mine, actually. And some of these same women were shagging their men’s brains out UNTIL they got married (which is completely backward, IMO).

Dangerously, destructively, backwards – give away the most powerfully bonding experience possible, until you get involved with the man with whom you need most to bond, then don’t do it any more. It looks like deliberate sabotage of the marriage, or one of the stupidest things a human being could possibly do. It also looks like “bait and switch” and is one of things which most leads men to distrust women – every man knows dozens of men whose wives have done this to them.

Do you have idea why so many women do this?

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Bhetti October 26, 2009 at 18:20

Seeing the exposition on ‘the lady’ and the reactions to her is so very useful. Women aren’t taught this, at all, and at least some of what she does is very much learned.

Welmer: Unfortunately, yes, have spent a lot of time locked up in cities. Just seeing the stars for me is an absolute treat.

Thank you, that Palouse picture is beautiful. However, pretty sure I’d enjoy a trip to Ireland more. Yes, sir, I do intend to visit Ireland.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 19:00

I can go on and on about that, but I sense there is no need as we seem to agree on this.
Yeah, we agree.

Do you have idea why so many women do this?

I have no idea. Selfishness? Self-absorption? When they tell me that they can’t because they’re not in the mood (Has nobody explained the mechanics to them yet? — female “being in the mood” is purely optional) I tell them to get drunk. It worked when they were single…

Even some of the wives I know who are having sex regularly with their husbands aren’t putting much effort into it. They just sort of acquiesce when he requests it. Must be like making love to a corpse. No Parisian lingerie, no strip-tease, no message oil, no chocolate syrup or whip cream, no interesting positions or varying locations, nothing but “close your eyes and think of England”. And these guys are so deprived they’re probably happy to be getting it at all. *sigh* I’m not saying it has to be a big show every time — or even most of the time — but mixing it up a bit helps.

These are the same women who ask me breathlessly, “How do you do it?”

*banging head against the wall*

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zed October 26, 2009 at 19:13

They just sort of acquiesce when he requests it. Must be like making love to a corpse.

That pretty much captures it. Kis and I had a long conversation about this very subject a while back. One divorced woman I dated briefly really was so much like a corpse that in the last couple of years of her marriage her husband began to fantasize that she actually was dead. When she found this out, it really messed up her head – worse than it already was messed up.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 19:23

OMG.

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JohnnyBravo October 26, 2009 at 19:28

To quote Mevlana Rumi here: “Appear as you are and be as you appear.”

You act like a stiff, you get screwed like a stiff. I mean what’s the guy supposed to do, pretend she’s a hot firecracker while in reality she lies there not unlike the average plank of wood?

Also, not putting effort into something is a passive aggressive tactic. Simply put, rather than just denying sex, it seems more like an attempt to turn the husband off.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 19:33

Simply put, rather than just denying sex, it seems more like an attempt to turn the husband off.
That’s true. I’m sure it’s pretty effective, too. They can always add some deep sighs and “are you done yet” comments for quicker results.

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zed October 26, 2009 at 19:38

They can always add some deep sighs and “are you done yet” comments for quicker results.

I’ve had that one done to me, after pretending to have just woken up. Actually, it was “aren’t you done yet?” Let Novaseeker say whatever he wants to about porn, some women are so cruel to their men that the men avoid them even without an outlet. Thank god for the sexual revolution and I was able to find out what this woman was like without marrying her.

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Black&German October 26, 2009 at 19:57

OMG #2.

I was just kidding. I didn’t think anyone would ACTUALLY say that or act that way. Geez.

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zed October 26, 2009 at 20:09

OMG #2.

I was just kidding. I didn’t think anyone would ACTUALLY say that or act that way. Geez.

Most people have no clue about how vicious and cruel some women are capable of being.

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lovelysexybeauty October 26, 2009 at 20:22

Good manners and thoughtfulness towards others are such great qualities. I enjoyed reading the stories, sometimes we all don’t realize how the little things make such a difference to others.

For the country aspect of it, I think anyone who grows up socializing a lot might tend to develop this sort of sense of courtesy? Not in the “club friends” way, but the way where you grow up with people or see them regularly, and get to know their families as well. In cities socialization seems more based on climbing the social ladder or something.

About helping a man without offending his pride, that’s such a great way to describe it. I do something similar when a guy takes me out, with the check. Whether it’s a “suitor” or dad/cousin/uncle/etc., I’ll try make sure I offer to contribute but not in front of others or too obviously (even tried to slip money under the table with a smiley “shhhh” if he’s really been going over the top). All guys refuse the money (I <3 gentlemen even though some would call them fools for not taking my $! :-) Oh well). I try to payback later on by cooking a picnic or getting sports tickets or something… they can't say no then! :-)

I need to remember to do this every day too, I think. Be a customer but in a way that treats everyone with respect and kindness.

B&G: Nice attitude :-) I don't know why women lose the mood, I mean what happens? Are they self-conscious? They should hire a maid if it makes more time to work out and do beauty stuff! :-)

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kis October 26, 2009 at 21:46

Even some of the wives I know who are having sex regularly with their husbands aren’t putting much effort into it.

My grandmother used to tell me to “fake it until you make it”. She meant it as advice for getting yourself over a pissy mood, but it works for getting into the mood for sex, too.

I’ll admit, once I’d had kids and a job and all the rest, the “big production” type of sex mostly went out the window. There were no more marathon sessions that lasted three hours–who has the goddamn time! Well, I guess he did, lol, but you know what I mean. But dammit, if you can’t muster the enthusiasm for some sweaty, energetic humping, a few changes of position and some gasping dirty talk, you might as well be dead between your legs. Even if you don’t start out in the mood, you can get yourself there as long as you have the right mindset.

It doesn’t have to take forever. In fact, the more you’re obviously into it, the quicker it usually goes and the faster you can get some shut-eye. And you’re more likely to enjoy it, too. It’s a lot more pleasant than lying under someone and planning next week’s menu.

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Acksiom October 27, 2009 at 00:53

And the main reason I have railed against porn use on my own blog. At bottom, it desensitizes men to real women.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

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Krauser October 27, 2009 at 03:55

I liked the description of a lady. Before stumbling onto game and MRA I too had this vague feeling that modern women simply are not attractive. Then I started to put the pieces together and realised just how great it feels to be in the presence of a female who meets Jack’s description of a lady.

Just this weekend I was first-dating a Romanian girl. She was tall, hot and fashionably dressed. If she’d had the modern bitch attitude she’d have been super-scary and turned me right off. But she was actually sweet, interested and girly.

It was such a pleasure to be around her that it brought out all the best qualities in me and we both had a great time. On the way home I was thinking “why can’t all girls be like that?” Sometimes I just despair at how modern women are determined to suck all of the pleasure out of the world, to the detriment of all.

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Black&German October 27, 2009 at 04:35

B&G: Nice attitude :-) I don’t know why women lose the mood, I mean what happens? Are they self-conscious? They should hire a maid if it makes more time to work out and do beauty stuff! :-)

Funny story: When we were first married I was self-conscious about keeping a clean house. I would clean it from top to bottom every day. Even wiping off the top of the refrigerator, washing the windows, dusting the lamps. I was positively neurotic about it. Unfortunately, I was also really tired. Every evening after dinner I’d collapse on the couch and immediately fall asleep watching tv. Night after night.
After a few weeks of this, with no sign of improvement, my husband asks me at dinner, “Why are you so tired all of the time? We don’t even have sex anymore, all you want to do is sleep.” When I explained why I was so exhausted he just grinned and said, “That’s easy enough to solve. Stop cleaning so much. Fuck me instead.” LOL. A man’s gotta set priorities.

Anyway, my housework list was his idea. I came up with a list and then he proceeded to cross out chores until we got down to a bare minimum. He commanded me to “not stress myself out” during the day, get plenty or rest, enjoy myself, etc. And stay awake at night.

My grandmother used to tell me to “fake it until you make it”. She meant it as advice for getting yourself over a pissy mood, but it works for getting into the mood for sex, too.

That’s actually really good advice. It doesn’t really matter if I’m in the mood in the beginning. I’m always enjoying myself by the end. ;-)

Nice to see another experienced woman on here, Kis.

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Black&German October 27, 2009 at 04:52

Almost forgot to mention: I was pregnant at the time and on maternity leave.

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kis October 27, 2009 at 09:07

That’s actually really good advice. It doesn’t really matter if I’m in the mood in the beginning. I’m always enjoying myself by the end.

Yeah, me too. We actually had a discussion when I started being “too tired” a lot–it was the shift from the standard marathon sessions we’d have even when the kids were little, to something more sane once I started working. I told him I just didn’t have the time or energy for the big production anymore, and he’d get sex a lot more often if we could bring it in under 45 minutes every time. Once he realized that’s what the problem was, he was all too happy to speed things up. And if I really did my job well, we could both be done and happy and exhausted in well under half an hour. ;)

I just find it odd to think that some women’s definition of a quickie is lying there and basically offering her body up as a masturbatory tool. I mean, if that’s all you’re going to do, he might as well be using a fleshlight, right?

And the “fake it until you make it” advice has really helped me with my daughter. She’d get into these funks where every damn thing would piss her off. I’d tell her to pretend to be happy for just half an hour. And hey, presto! In half an hour, she’d have tricked herself out of her shitty mood. She wasn’t always all the way to “happy”, but at least she wasn’t slamming doors every two minutes.

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kis October 27, 2009 at 09:07

WTF happened with the blockquotes up there? ^^^

Fixed. You didn’t close the blockquote with a slash.

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Black&German October 27, 2009 at 09:35

I just find it odd to think that some women’s definition of a quickie is lying there and basically offering her body up as a masturbatory tool.

Aaagh! The image of that is now forever burned on my brain. Don’t do that, Kis.

She’d get into these funks where every damn thing would piss her off. I’d tell her to pretend to be happy for just half an hour.

I do apply that rule to a lot of things now, too. For instance, I’ve learned to always treat my husband and my children like I love them, even if I’d really like to wring their necks. After a while, I start to feel like I love them again and I think “Why was I so angry before?” Doesn’t “laugh therapy” base upon that premise, as well?

I guess it’s similar to the “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all” rule. That works too. Once it’s spoken, you can’t take it back. Sometimes it’s just better to bite your lip and hold your tongue.

And not every feeling is legitimate and needs to be acted upon.

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JohnnyBravo October 27, 2009 at 09:45

“And not every feeling is legitimate and needs to be acted upon.”

How foolish a notion. Don’t you know that not speaking what’s on your mind all the time without censoring yourself, and not acting on every reptilian impulse in your brain will eventually turn you into the next John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy?

Heaven forbid you consider the coherence of society and preservation of civility more important than immediate gratification, in that case we might be looking at the next Hitler.

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Gryphon MacThoy October 27, 2009 at 10:17

Well stated, Jack. I grew up with country women until I was 20. It was always nice to be respected, even at 14, for the work I did.

I find that these days, I have little patience for the impatient urban bitches you mentioned. Certainly not all wealthy women in the city are like that, but it’s definitely the majority. The main problem is Entitlement. There are too many women AND men who believe that wealth entitles them to… anything. And that politeness from people they pay is a requirement. It is not. Getting paid to do work is one thing. Doing it kindly is a purely interpersonal dynamic.

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Globalman October 27, 2009 at 15:24

Bhetti October 25, 2009 at 4:54 pm
“I have not seen one female of the country species. Not one. In my two decades of being alive.”
It shows…why are you talking when you have nothing to say…oh..that’s right..you are female…pardon me princess…

Guys,
of COURSE country women are better…but even they are tainted now…..Pretty much ALL my female cousins were pretty good…no woman did anything ‘bad’ to me as a kid. Indeed, the only woman who ever really attacked me was my ex. Plenty of guys attacked me from the football field to business….that’s fine.

These city ‘princesses’ are just a pain in the neck. They try to act like men and fail miserably. Country women are following along the programming….they have to be raised in an environment where misandry is not present…like eastern europe…to be a decent woman nowadays. And the younger ones are already getting spoiled in eastern europe.

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Globalman October 27, 2009 at 15:28

Black&German October 26, 2009 at 11:03 am
“Me: LAST MONTH! And you wonder why he can’t get near you without foaming at the mouth? Go shag your husband and quit wasting my time. ”

Ok B&G, you ahve my vote…!! Thanks for the great post..!!! I was in Stuttgart on the weekend and they are already serving the gluwine…I am going to have my best christmas ever this year!!! Germany is just great!!

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Black&German October 27, 2009 at 15:42

*bow* You are very welcome.

Wow, they are early!
I make my own Gluhwein but I usually don’t start until the weekend after Thanksgiving (when we bake Christmas cookies: Spekulatius, Kokosnussmakronen, Butterplaetzchen, Spritzgebaeck, Lebkuchen, etc.) The store-bought stuff is vile although drinking a cup at a Kristkindlmarkt is an experience. It really does warm!
You need to use a nice, dry, quality red wine to get the right flavor. Fresh oranges, whole spices, and loose-leaf Darjeeling are also a must. Have you ever had Feuerzangenbowle? Mmmm… Lecker!

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Kimskinovgorod October 27, 2009 at 15:55

B&G

Ahhh…Kokosnussmakronen…..Hmmm-aaaarrrrggghhh!!!!
(Salivating……drip-drip….)

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JohnnyBravo October 27, 2009 at 16:10

Personally I prefer Lebkuchen.

Also new year’s eve in Germany is awesome, truly the one day in the year that even proper gentlemen can let their inner child run wild.

Christ, I think I’ve blown up enough stuff with firecrackers to give the French and their nuclear tests on the Bikini atoll a run for their money, those were some awesome (and weird) times.

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Black&German October 27, 2009 at 16:29

Lebkuchen is good. My aunt makes the best ever. The store-bought kind (Nuernberger-style) is also very good but I find the glazed ones over-sweet. The dark chocolate-covered ones are my favorite.

I miss New Year’s in Germany. Setting off firecrackers in front of your house, waking the kids up to see the fireworks, drinking bubbly in the street with your neighbors, etc. It’s harder here because it seems to be mostly parties geared to adults. I have small children and we’re pretty excluded from the festivities.

Oh, don’t. Now I’m getting homesick again.

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kis October 27, 2009 at 16:45

Hey, Kimski. You think you could ship me over an almond Kringle? Or ten? I’m all sad now. Last time I had it was when I was in Alberta for my grandmother’s funeral. I think I ate an entire one all by myself in a single evening. And had more for breakfast the next day.

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Kimskinovgorod October 27, 2009 at 16:50

Kis

hey kis-me-once-andkis-me-twice…
The best of those come from Germany, and I live in the part of DK thats the furthest from the border…I see what I can do, though…

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Kimskinovgorod October 27, 2009 at 16:53

Sorry, that was all mis-spelled..playing guitar doesn´t help…

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Kimskinovgorod October 27, 2009 at 16:54

kis

Why are you sad ??

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Kimskinovgorod October 27, 2009 at 17:01

kis

Come to think of it…Almond Kringle, -I can get those anywhere !!!
Almond Kringle…HHHmmmmm…

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kis October 27, 2009 at 17:53

Never mind me, Kimski. I’m feeling nostalgic and maudlin.

I miss almond kringle and all the stuff it symbolizes. It’s what we used to have instead of cake on our birthdays, and for desert on special occasions. My dad would drive halfway across Edmonton to get the ones from the best Danish Bakery–even in blizzard conditions. My family are spread all across Canada now. I only seem to get to have it when someone dies and I have to jump on a plane for a funeral. :(

Although I have been hunting down recipes online. It might make a nice X-mas gift for my kids’ teachers, and they weather freezing just fine. I think the store here even brings in almond paste for holiday bakers.

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Kimskinovgorod October 27, 2009 at 18:04

kis

Okay…busy!
Just lurkin`tonight…lol!

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Black&German October 27, 2009 at 18:28

Hmmm… Was just surfing and saw this article. It pretty much covers how I feel about sex in marriage. Warning: a good read but very religious. Don’t know anything else about that site but that article is spot-on.

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Gunslingergregi October 27, 2009 at 18:28

””””””’Black&German October 26, 2009 at 7:00 pm
I can go on and on about that, but I sense there is no need as we seem to agree on this.
Yeah, we agree.

Do you have idea why so many women do this?

I have no idea. Selfishness? Self-absorption? When they tell me that they can’t because they’re not in the mood (Has nobody explained the mechanics to them yet? — female “being in the mood” is purely optional) I tell them to get drunk. It worked when they were single…

Even some of the wives I know who are having sex regularly with their husbands aren’t putting much effort into it. They just sort of acquiesce when he requests it. Must be like making love to a corpse. No Parisian lingerie, no strip-tease, no message oil, no chocolate syrup or whip cream, no interesting positions or varying locations, nothing but “close your eyes and think of England”. And these guys are so deprived they’re probably happy to be getting it at all. *sigh* I’m not saying it has to be a big show every time — or even most of the time — but mixing it up a bit helps.

These are the same women who ask me breathlessly, “How do you do it?”

*banging head against the wall*

”””””””””””””’

People really have it that bad?

Fuck

I mean ex stopped having sex with me last 6 months but that was so in her mind she had plausible deniability that she didn’t cheat on me. Right before that though she was asking for more sex. Oh well.

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Yohannes November 10, 2009 at 23:37

I don’t understand at all !

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crella November 11, 2009 at 00:40

Do you have idea why so many women do this?

My gut tells me that the object is to reel the guy in, and once they’ve done it, so sure are they that they’ve got the guy shackled for life, that they stop doing any more of the flirtation, sex, grooming, and dressing up that they used to bait the hook, as it’s too much work.

It’s what I’ve pieced together in my head from remarks over the years at family picnics etc (god help me…) In other words they give the guy everything he wants sexually, knit him sweaters, make him cookies, but once they get married he has to turn into ‘old married guy ‘ overnight….women make guys sell motorcycles, classic/muscle cars, give up hobbies, guys’ night out, it’s all control. Then they stop the sex. I can’t imagine how that must totally confound and hurt men. It’s like their bride got replaced by some evil creature. Women must get kicks out of being little dictators. The cheap thrill, the power rush, of making the man who made them weak at the knees, the one they worried might not pop the question, fall to HIS knees. Enraging to say the least.

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