Upping MRA “Game”: Honing Our Rhetoric of Ridicule.

by zed on October 13, 2009

Feminism is cultural-level Game being run by women, collectively, against men, collectively. Men and boys swim in a sea of negs, and the purpose is exactly the same as using negs in game – to keep the other side off balance.

While some serious practitioners of Game may be fine with the relative advantage that knowing Game gives them over a lot of other men, others cannot help but be aware that the playing field is tilted signficantly to the advantage of females and that leveling the playing field in general would probably help their overall percentages. As the trailblazers of Game have studied individual female behaviors and learned how to use those behaviors to their advantage, I think that men can certainly study collective female Game, or feminism, and use that understanding to improve conditions for men at the cultural level.

Nilk just made an interesting comment – “I don’t have the answers, but I suspect a part of it comes from beating the enemy at their own game.”

Let that one sink in for a minute.

In order to do that, first we must define the enemy, then identify their game, and finally analyze it so we can devise tactics to defeat it.

So, let’s start with who is the enemy. Are women “the enemy”? Yeah, yeah, I can hear the chorus of objections coming from all directions. Stow it. I’ll come back to this.

Is the NWO the enemy? They make a convenient scapegoat – like hobgoblins, evil spirits, and “patriarchy.” Sorry, but there have been more “new world orders” or “new orders for the ages” throughout history than wannabe prophets and messiahs, and there have been plenty of those.

Maybe Alphas, or SoCons, or maybe even “card-carrying-Kommunnnists!” And then again, maybe not.

Or maybe all of them are for one simple reason: their interests are not our interests, and they are going to pursue their interests and show no concern at all about ours – leaving that job to us. And if we don’t do the job of looking out after our own interests, then we are the ones who dropped the ball, not them.

So, let’s start with the enemy that looks back at us from the mirror and tackle that one first. What keeps us from actively advocating for our own interests? I’m looking for reasons, not excuses. (“Excuses are LIES, plebe!”) Identifying obstacles is the first step in the process of problem-solving, which we men are supposed to be so good at. Sorry, dudes, based on the performance of the past 45 years I would have to say we really suck at it. Let’s start by seeing if we can get out of our own way and start to do something effective.

Which brings me back to women and the game they have been running on men and boys.

While they may not be “the enemy”, they are certainly not our allies, either. Feminism has convinced a great many women that their interests and men’s interests are in conflict, mutually exclusive, and a zero sum game. That makes many of them our opponents, our competitors, and a group of people who generally view any gain for men as a loss for women. Many of them also view any loss for men as a group to be long overdue because every man throughout history has led a life of unbroken “power and privilege” don’cha’know.

So, one answer to this has been to run game on men and boys collectively with an unbroken and constant stream of negs – sometimes hidden behind “cuteness” and sometimes just flat-out man-bashing. The tiresome litany of complaints has become so cliched that most of us could write the entire kvetch based on the first line or two. Recently Novaseeker did a post about a post on another blog titled “94 reasons the guy I’m dating isn’t right for me.” A better title would have been “94 cliches negging men, repeated for the 10 millionth time.”

Whether they are “enemies” or not, you can pretty much count on most women playing for “Team Woman.” They are going to high-five each other over cutting those “over-inflated male egos down to size”, and nod their heads in enthusiastic agreement as the “you go grrls” give men their what-for.

And, betas just sit there with stupid Prozac grins on their faces and take it. Why?

There are a lot of reasons, but I want to focus on just a couple of them.

First, men have a very difficult time internalizing the fact that they are dealing with an opponent dedicated to stonewalling them and preventing from making any progress. For some odd reason, a lot of men unreasonably and irrationally cling to the “reasonable and rational” approach despite the fact that it has never worked.

Second, men generally lag behind women in the psychological warfare being waged. They do not realize that they have walked into a gunfight with a plastic spork, and when their patient explanations do not win over their opponents, they often get angry, flustered and inarticulate.

I think the next stage of evolution of cultural-level game will be for men to upgrade their skills in the rhetoric of ridicule. As things often play out now, one or two representatives from “Team Woman” can usually easily keep the issues confused and keep stinging men like hovering wasps with their crafted words which are skillful personal attacks designed to stonewall and derail discussion.

Our friend Anakin has done a very valuable piece of work with his “Catalog of anti-male shaming tactics” by identifying the most common games run on men to try to shut them up. I think it needs to be taken farther, however. While he identifies the mechanism – the emotional response of shame – it needs to be taken to the next step and how those tactics fit into an overall strategy needs to be subjected to the same sort of analysis.

This is why I have suggested no longer calling them “shaming tactics” and instead calling them “Personal Attacks and Mind Games Used to Silence Men.” The strategy is to shift the discussion from the subject at hand to being about the person, and with a personal attack put that person on the defensive.

So, this leads us back to the idea of beating our opponents at their own game.

The naive and simple Charlie Browns, thinking that they are not dealing with people who are actual opponents but simply people who don’t understand yet because it hasn’t been properly explained to them, will plunge doggedly ahead making points their opponents do not want to hear and will do everything in their power to prevent from being heard. The wasps will swoop in and start stinging – “loser, you hate women, you live in your mother’s basement, you must have a small penis” until they land one that hits a sore spot and triggers Chuck’s anger.

At this point he will lose his train of thought, and pop off with some terribly imaginative comeback like “bitch” or “whore” or “slut.” Contrary to all the nonsense about “slut shaming”, these terms don’t bother the attack wasps of Team Woman in the slightest. In fact, they are clear signals the wasps have hit their target, accomplished their objective, and reduced poor Chuck to barely articulate profanity.

So, it’s time for MRAs to up our game, and improve our own negging ability – to start honing our rhetoric of ridicule so we can sting our opponents as deeply as they are trying to sting us. This is where the masters of Game have a real advantage. They know how to go for the throat, how to undermine, and how to do it with a light touch so that objections can be dismissed as being thin-skinned, or having no sense of humor, or taking themselves too seriously.

Now, of course, this being Game, there will be the cultural level version of cockblockers. Most of these will be SoCons, or knee-jerk chivalrists, or manginas – “HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT WOMANHOOD!!! Up with this, I WILL NOT PUT!!!”

That is probably where we need to start developing wingman skills. Instead of leaving our intrepid Man Who Is Concerned About The Status And Future Of Men (MWICATSAFOM? Nah, fuggit, “MRA” is much simpler) hanging out there on his own, we need to give him an assist.

Unfortunately, this will probably require going for the throat. It will require analyzing the areas where women really are insecure and beating on them the same way operatives from Team Woman will attack a man’s potential areas of insecurity in order to shut him down.

It’s nice to see that Paul Elam has resurrected Voice For Men after a hiatus of several years. On his front page, he poses the interesting question which a lot of long-time MRAs have pondered -
“Suppose they had a gender war…
and men showed up.”

Are men ready to start taking the sticks of dynamite that Team Woman has been throwing at us for more than 45 years, lighting them, and throwing them back? Are we/they ready to take off the kid gloves, abandon their romanticized Victorian notions about women, and realize that many of them have no concern at all for us (best case) and some actually harbor intense and active malice toward us (worst case)?

Is Team Men ready to take the field? Is it time for “Game on”?

{ 173 comments… read them below or add one }

Krauser October 13, 2009 at 03:27

So we need a Mystery Method for dealing with non-sexualised dominance situations in which the FMOG(s) are trying to tool the player? Great idea, I think.

Rather than list particular shaming language (in itself a very valuable resource), has anyone been able to identify the “attack ritual”. I’m using Geoff Thompson’s self-defence as an analogy.

1. Target selection – attacker selects target based on perceived vulnerability and prize value (defense = hard targeting)
2. Stalk – attacker observes target and if necessary follows, searching for weaknesses and waiting for target to move into either a vulnerable environment or a vulnerable mental state (defense = heightened perception to being stalked, avoidance of vulnerable position)
3. Approach – attacker commences run up (defense = perception, protected posture)
4. Misdirection/set-up – attacker misdirects victim’s attention with red herring / question (“have you got the time?”) while trying to create an opening for the sucker punch (defense = maintain protected posture, ignore words and read actions)
5. Sucker punch – attacker unleashes sudden, brutal, unexpected force. Triggers huge adrenalin dump in victim that causes paralysis. Makes off with wallet / commences beat down (defense = once ritual nears close, commence pre-emptive attack)

I’m just wondering if Team Woman has a similar attack ritual.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Krauser October 13, 2009 at 03:38

To try applying this to a relatively benign scenario – having fun in a mixed group in a bar when the FMOG decides it’s put-down time:

1. Three guys in the group. Alpha male, beta and mangina. Alpha is too high risk, and the FMOG wants his seed anyways. Mangina is a pushover and a likely ally. No prize value. The beta is selected.
2. FMOG drops out of the conversation a little. Sips her drink, eyes on the beta, just makes “yeah”, “um” listening noises as she sizes up the beta. Body language a little withdrawn. She’s trying to identify the best shaming tactic for this guy, while weighing up who in the group will support her. She waits for the alpha to go to the bar.
3. FMOG re-enters conversation. Directs conversation to the beta, perhaps bringing up the topic of relationships as a wedge into her chosen put-down. Body language is re-engaged and she’s starting to lead the conversation. Her peers quieten and defer to her. They gradually step into a horseshoe pattern with the beta in the middle
4. Just as she has the full attention of the group, she slips in “so, didn’t you know blah blah….. [of base question about ex-girlfriend]“. Beta is confused a little,
5. Wham, the put-down is delivered. Beta feels like he’s under the spotlight, gets nervous. Everyone else laughs.

Ok, that’s a bit clumsy but I’m just starting to try seeing if the pattern fits.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
Indomitable Thoughts October 13, 2009 at 03:43

“Team Woman” = sisterhood. An unbelievably powerful and ruthless force.

Women team up with each other more often than men, but if this hits critical mass, men could team up with each other too, instead of spouting PC platitudes when around women and calling them bitches when away.

There’s something opposing this, though…I think it’s in men’s nature to backstab other men for pussy….and it’s a very strong force within each man. MRAs have overcome that force, but most guys haven’t. When push comes to shove, it’s dog eat dog. Only the severely clobbered guys wake up to this game, I’m afraid.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
Novaseeker October 13, 2009 at 06:37

When push comes to shove, it’s dog eat dog. Only the severely clobbered guys wake up to this game, I’m afraid.

The answer to breaking down the dog-at-dog is awareness, I think, which is one of the main things we are all focused on here. Get more men to wake up and see things as they really are, and not as they would wish they were, or they have been taught to believe they are. And, in any case, we don’t need all men to do this — we simply need enough of a mass to form a *vanguard*. A vanguard will be enough to create a lot of memetic mayhem on the cultural level.

=======

I’ve long thought that the biggest obstacle to even the vanguard fighting back with gloves off is that too many of us care what others think of us. That is a powerful constraint on behavior, regardless of whether any shaming language is actually deployed — it’s the fear of being shamed, of being considered a loonie and so on that holds us back. That’s something we all need to break through a bit more thoroughly I think.

One thing I think we *do* need for this kind of effort, and something I may write about at greater length when I get the time to do so, is more focus. We tend to be easily distracted as a community into side issues like political orientation, conspiracy theories, civilizational theories and so on. While these are all interesting, they are great distractions from us keeping our collective eyes on the ball. In that sense, they help Team Woman and their cockblockers as well, because they allow them to use wedges to divide us — something they do pretty well, because men are apt to be divided over those kinds of issues. We need more focus and discipline in keeping our efforts trained on the main issues here — the situation of men in our society. We can say what we like about Team Woman, but for all the multifarious strands of feminism that have been bandied about (some of which contradict each other), overall the women’s movement has remained remarkably focused on the core issues that unite most women, and retained this focus even in the midst of pretty significant ideological disagreements. We need that kind of focus for this mission — keeping our eyes on the prize, if you will.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Globalman October 13, 2009 at 06:51

“In order to do that, first we must define the enemy, then identify their game, and finally analyze it so we can devise tactics to defeat it…..Is the NWO the enemy? They make a convenient scapegoat”

Zed, on this point I disagree. The evidence is that women have similar mental capacity to a 7-10 year old boy. And that means their opinions can be more easily formed by repetition. Mens opinions can also be formed by repetition but to a much lesser degree. Propaganda exists because it works.

The repetition of misandry and feminism in the MSM is the Illuminati programming women with these idea. Women are actually programmed by the MSM, legal system, education system etc. Everywhere you look you can see the Illuiminati programming little girls to older women in misandry and feminism. This is not being done at the behest of women. It is being done at the behest of men. Try this article. http://www.savethemales.ca/001904.html Anyone who understands programming of belief systems into people can see this is what is happening. When I first noticed it I was shocked I had not seen it before. It’s sooooo obvious.

Any strategy that does not take into account the Illuminati programming women will not work. It’s as simple as that. Denying this is the case is just sticking your head in the sand. Trying to ‘negotiate’ with a bunch of criminal scumbags to ‘stop denigrating men’ will not work. Period.

So. Strategy to ‘fix’ these problems?
1. Until we ‘fix’ it men are well advised to simply dis-engage with western women. Disengage means freeze sperm and get the snip if you ever want kids. Do not co-habit. Do not ‘accidentally’ have children with one of these ‘entitlement princesses’.
2. Get some hobbies.
3. Learn how to bed the women you want. I mean really. If you don’t actually care about the woman at all getting laid is easier than finding a McDonalds. I have ‘standards’ so it’s a little harder to get laid. But I also have plenty of money and a good track record as a ‘beta provider’ which is what a lot of women in the 30-35 group are looking for. I am amazed how easy it is to get laid now. It wasn’t like that 25 years ago.

Going forward. With respect to what we might call ‘the trouble with western women today’ I had a bit of a ‘brainwave’ this morning. That was to challenge women in the free man society in Ireland to form dejour juries to try cases of women committing crimes against men. My ex being the first. The link is here: http://freemanireland.ning.com/forum/topics/gms-proposed-challenge-to-the

If women really want to be equal then lets propose they form juries to hear common law cases of men bringing complaints against women for crimes women commit. Let the jury be 12 women. Let the judge be a woman acting in common law. Let the decisions they issue be public. Let it all be TOTALLY TRANSPARENT. From the decisions the women issue for crimes committed by women men will get a very clear picture of exactly how women wish to treat women who commit crimes. If they let them off, so be it, but we will know this is how they want it. Let’s get the Illuminati scumbag judges out of the picture by creating dejour juries operating under common law.

I think this is a GREAT idea…I am really excited about it. Even if women REFUSE to create such juries such refual makes a very clear statement that women want the privileges of the Illuminati corrupted legal system and are not even willing to judge other women themselves as men routinely do.

Other issues. I have posted previously that we have the right to form companies and then operate as contract for hire in common law to those companies so that we can refuse to hire the ‘women quota’ defined in statutes. So us men can pretty much set up our own companies should we wish to. If we wish to hire women we can but we can not be forced to. It is ludicrous the owners of a company can be forced to hire unproductive workers so let’s refuse the jurisdiction of that statute.

The issue of what to do with all these brainwashed women? It sad. I am an expert in this stuff. Brainwashed people have to really want to break out of the brainwashing and women generally do not. They have had a belief system programmed into them and I, for one, am not interested in paying taxes for the treatments that will be required to de-program them. Let them grow old with their vibrators and cats. They gave up being responsible for their own brains. Why should I pay for them to clean up their own brains? They can be cleaning ladies. It was a good enough job for my grandmother.

Another thing we need to do is to remove women from all positions in the education system. Yep. A clean sweep. To raise our next generation of decent women we are going to have to have misandry and feminism removed from the classroom and then we are going to have to wait 20 years. Too long for me so I date women who have not been programmed by misandry.

Lastly. Men must refuse to marry the guvment. Really, why would we marry the guvment? But that’s what a ‘marriage license’ is. A three party contract with the guvment as the prime party. Not many people know that. Men who want to marry can ‘move to russia’ or they can create a common law contract with their beloved. I would recommend men insist they are the sole owners of the children and all property. The man accepts the obligation to provide and protect and the woman also undertakes obligations such as child care and sex. It’s a contract that is binding and there should be penalties for non-performance. If women don’t like the contract they do not have to sign. We don’t need a ‘gender war’. All men need to do is to refuse to the jurisdiction of the guvment and refuse to give any any of his rights or property to any woman. Women will soon ‘fall by the wayside’ in this new ‘competitive environment’. Women only ‘compete’ when men are handicapped by unfair statutes.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Mr. N October 13, 2009 at 07:02

Do we need to collect field reports?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Globalman October 13, 2009 at 07:05

“That is a powerful constraint on behavior, regardless of whether any shaming language is actually deployed…it’s the fear of being shamed, of being considered a loonie and so on that holds us back.”
Yep. So many men are manginas when it comes to speaking their mind. And so many MORE men are manginas leaping to the ‘defense’ of ‘upset women’ who are ‘upset by the facts of the matter’. Just yesterday I was called ‘ill’. This, incidentally, is exactly the process that the Soviets used to use. Any ‘disident’ who told ‘lies’ (ie the truth) was ‘mentally ill’ and needed to be isolated and given the immediate assistance of ‘medical professionals’. Good to see some men are so brainwashed they are recommending soviet tactics as an antidote to free speech!! LOL!! But yep…that is how messed up some men are.

I even put a question to a woman asking her what, exactly, had she done with respect to working against the Illuminati scumbags and I was seriously asked ‘who am I to ask someone what they have done’. Can you believe that? These petals are so delicate they can not be asked a question over a forum if it might point out that they had actually not done anything. LOL!! The woman, to her credit, did not take offense. It was a politely put and serious question.

So many men are so clueless and they ‘worship’ women so much it’s amazing. I know what it’s like to be in that little cage as I spent 40 years there. I was oblivious to the poor behaviour of women because I just could not bear to think my wife was like that….bbbzzzz….wrong….she was….

Guys…..just speak your mind…..stick to the facts, you don’t need to make anything up…..especially online…..let the cards fall where they will. They will fall in favour of men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Anony October 13, 2009 at 08:47

“Our friend Anakin has done a very valuable piece of work with his “Catalog of anti-male shaming tactics” by identifying the most common games run on men to try to shut them up.”

Link?

—–

Excellent post Zed! Too many MRA posts lately have been useless whining posts. I’ve been reading less as a result. We need more focus on helpful strategies and tactics. It’s time to stop the pity party and start taking action like men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Firepower October 13, 2009 at 08:54

Is Team Men ready to take the field? Is it time for “Game on”?

No, and maybe.

Unsure if snappy comebacks are fitting response to 40 years of female legislative triumph resulting in an America happily populated by man-sissies.

It’s like the French, waving perfumed hankies at Blitzkrieg tanks, hoping to make the crew sneeze.

Though I identify with the call to action and understand the motivation, I fear it is too late.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Paul October 13, 2009 at 08:54

I am really not up to speed at Game. However, I would like to tell you something that I learnt a very long time ago in the early years if my marriage. So we are almost talking pre feminism here.

NEVER confide in a woman or try to talk a problem you have over with her. When first married I used to do this but then I began to understand that although my wife might have been initially sympathetic, all that had really happened is that I had given her information that she would throw back at me when I was at my weakest.

It was as though any weaknesses or insecurities I had revealed where listened to and filed away. Then when it was time to wound me (there where many such times) out would come the confidence I had imparted and it would be stabbed into me.

Just or the record I am still married. One of the reasons I come to sites like this is to try to warn others so that they might avoid the torment and suffering that I had to endure.

Paul Elam who is mentioned above calls himself ‘ The Happy Misogynist’ but says he is not this in reality. I will tell you that I am down to my very core. , though the adjective ‘happy’ does not apply.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 09:18

Link?

Google it. You will find it dozens of places on the web. Here is one place it is posted
http://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/shaming-tactics/

zed October 13, 2009 at 09:26

Unsure if snappy comebacks are fitting response to 40 years of female legislative triumph resulting in an America happily populated by man-sissies.

The point is that women, en masse, have acted as foot soldiers in the attack on masculinity and men have lost ground through millions of stupid arguments one at a time. A lot of the discussion regarding anti-male laws is focussed on some organization suddenly appearing to be men’s messiah and solve the problem with a deus et machina intervention. Ain’t gonna happen.

Men are going to have to fight it out by dealing with one pig-headed woman at a time knocking her endless cliches to the ground and turning the personal undermining back on her. That is the essential of Game.

Though I identify with the call to action and understand the motivation, I fear it is too late.

It’s too late when you are dead. Until then, a man has as much opportunity to do what he can about the situation as he decides to have.

emarel October 13, 2009 at 10:11

“Feminism is cultural-level Game being run by women, collectively, against men, collectively. Men and boys swim in a sea of negs, and the purpose is exactly the same as using negs in game – to keep the other side off balance.”

I think it is Roissy who stated it thus: “Feminism is history’s greatest collective Shit-Test of men by women.”

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Firepower October 13, 2009 at 10:43

zed

The point is that women, en masse, have acted as foot soldiers in the attack on masculinity and men have lost ground through millions of stupid arguments one at a time.

Agreed.

The nascent women’s/suffrage movement began as small groups without political endorsement, then quickly gained ground when sanctioned by law.

Until men attain similar political and subsequent legal clout, any achievement will pale in comparison.

Our problem lies in turning back the clock to a past where we are somehow restored, while the women’s movement was about attaining a new status – this is/was mistakenly seen as progressive and the male counterpart is seen as regressive.

Females have utterly succeeded in depicting men as unsympathetic and thus, undeserving of a movement such as theirs.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 10:47

One useful point to proactively bring up is that anyone who think a woman deserves alimony without a stringent standard of proof, is essentially admitting women are inferior.

Feminists will screech, of course, but logically, this is effective. If a woman chooses to leave, any absurd claim that she be entitled to continual lifetime support (again, SHE chose to leave) in the absence of abuse or addiction, is silly.

If women are equal to men, why should they get alimony? Anyone who supports no-fault alimony really thinks women are inferior.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 10:49

Folks, this is the next big civil rights issue. The next big HUMAN rights battle in the developed world.

Are we equal to the task?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Novaseeker October 13, 2009 at 11:13

Our problem lies in turning back the clock to a past where we are somehow restored, while the women’s movement was about attaining a new status – this is/was mistakenly seen as progressive and the male counterpart is seen as regressive.

Well, that’s a problem of framing the issue poorly — or allowing it to be framed for us.

In my view, we can’t be about “turning the clock back”. For starters, it generally doesn’t work — sure there have been reactionary moments in history, but they generally get reversed in due course. History runs in one direction and trying to bring back the past is not only bad PR, it’s also an unrealistic and even undesirable goal.

From my perspective, we need to eschew the roles of the past and carve out new ones for ourselves and, importantly, force this freedom and equality down feminist throats until they choke on it. We have the p0ssibility to be as masculine as we like without the cramped unilateral traditional roles that are still forced on men, for the most part, if we are only daring enough to do so. We really do have this freedom today. Too few men take it because they do not like being shamed for doing so, but that’s really what needs to end. Men need to stop giving a shit as much, and forge their own paths — taking our own inheritance of freedom and equality as it works for *us* — not as women would necessarily wish us to be.

To me, this is a key point. Take their own ideology and cram it down their throats, and in the process we will win great freedom for many men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Globalman October 13, 2009 at 11:18

@Paul,
you sound a lot like I used to be dude. Let me guess, you are staying for the kids? I did that for 14 long years. It sucks. I am so glad to be out!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 11:20

Ultimately this isn’t about turning back the clock. The problem is not that the old Patriarchy is destroyed, but that it has been partially destroyed. Women are showered with post-patriarchal freedoms, while men are still chained to patriarchal obligations. This is the situation from which moronic laws such as No Fault Alimony arise. I.e. she can cheat because she is a free emancipated human being. But after she files for divorce, and shacks up with the guy she was cheating with, the ex-husband is still obligated to provide for her, because you know, like, marriage vows are forever.

This is the double standard we must destroy. Once this necessary step is carried out, a new more equalist future for both genders can then be built.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Zeep October 13, 2009 at 11:45

The problem men have is that for a very important span of their life and development, they were totally dependent for love and approval, not to mention physical safety, nutrition, shelter, and other aspects of a personal survival, on a woman. I have long despised Freudian Oedipal explanations of things but I’m coming around. Men are not exactly hard wired, but very, very strongly conditioned to need approval from women. Those who got approval and validation from their mothers don’t seek it from other women, and women love them for it. Most had mothers who gave them various amounts of disapproval and punishment, others got lots of neuroticism and manipulation, and these are always going to be looking to women for approval. Women see this and go in for the kill.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 11:53

I find it wonderfully ironic that the Sci-Fi piece that PM/AF-T wrote, whether intentionally or unintentionally, has baited a huge amount of traffic in what amounts to a delightful social experiment.

I can’t blame the angry lady posters for there really are pretty hard core lady sci-fi fans/writers out there, and for better or worse PM/AF-T’s essay was provacative and a big hit-me target. But it is very intersting that the ensuing thread over at that essay is a real life example of the concepts mentioned here in Zed’s piece here. One can see real life examples of:

- Shaming Tactics
- White Knights valiantly coming ot the rescue
- Self-declerations on “real manhood”
- Even a guy trying to get a piece by “agreeing” with another poster of the opposite sex.

Fascinating stuff really. It’s almost like the Lab companion to this Theory class.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 11:55

I can’t decided whether this is infuriating or depressing. The “battle of the sexes” has gone much too far and I know the concept of “living in harmony” might have been reduced to a lot of static, but this is ridiculous. How are we supposed to build families and restore the values that make children good men and women if we’re surveying the scene like it’s Saigon circa 1968?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 11:57

How are we supposed to build families and restore the values that make children good men and women if we’re surveying the scene like it’s Saigon circa 1968?

Good question. A number of us are in the midst of the Tet Offensive right now.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 12:01

How are we supposed to build families and restore the values that make children good men and women if we’re surveying the scene like it’s Saigon circa 1968?

There are those among us who believe that destroying everyone’s ability to build families has been the agenda of the Powers That Be for a long time now. Look up “The Frankfurt School” or “Antonio Gramsci” and his “Long March Through the Culture” and do some research on just what sort of thinking has been driving public policy.

Here is a pretty good place to start –
http://menforjustice.net/library/
(thanks, Rob, you never knew when all your hard work would start to pay off, did you?)

Then, think about how you might be able to get involved in doing something about it.

zed October 13, 2009 at 12:05

The “battle of the sexes” has gone much too far and I know the concept of “living in harmony” might have been reduced to a lot of static, but this is ridiculous

For a real good look at how far too far it’s gone, have a look at this –
‘When I go on a date, I leave the man’s contact info so the cops can find my body if I go missing’

Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 12:05

*Decide. My kingdom for an “edit” button.

Yeah here’s the thing about comparing relationships to Vietnam: it’s really unsettling to think that my future husband and/or any guy I date regards me with the same love and trust as he would the Vietcong insurgency.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Firepower October 13, 2009 at 12:12

Novaseeker

Well, that’s a problem of framing the issue poorly — or allowing it to be framed for us.

Untrue. It’s not a mere issue of frame. It’s a matter of concrete legislation passed into law. Legal sanction for male inequality is the ultimate frame. All encoded laws are. Perhaps it is a misunderstanding, so I will restate it and write that turning back the clock will not work.

In my view, we can’t be about “turning the clock back”. For starters, it generally doesn’t work — sure there have been reactionary moments in history, but they generally get reversed in due course.

Reactionary change has proved durable. The American Revolution. Suffrage. Anti-slavery. The 60′s. There are many more, but it is the fortuitous combination of revolutionary will, versus a vulnerable power structure that predicts success. Currently, there are few indications to reveal the status quo as feeble.

From my perspective, we need to eschew the roles of the past and carve out new ones for ourselves and, importantly, force this freedom and equality down feminist throats until they choke on it…

Agreed, but until current proposed goals of male suffrage are explained to be different than what we enjoyed in the past, much of it is just elegant barstool talk of the he-man womanhater’s club variety sure to send alarms to the current power structure that views it as ‘dangerously’ regressive. They >will</b use the sovereign legal power of the State to combat threatening dissent – as all do.

Make no mistake: America is indeed run by Pelosis, Feinsteins and Boxers. All we need do is look at the Oval Office. People get the government they deserve. They will never willingly, easily, relinquish wielding their power – it is too intoxicating. America wants change, but only if it's entertaining.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Firepower October 13, 2009 at 12:27

If Vietnam is a current symbol,

just remember which side won.

And now, you can book a vacation in Hanoi

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 12:28

Suzanne,

Look inwards at the damage to men AND women caused by feminism. Telling men to step up is not appropriate – men have stepped up more, and withstood far more, than women.

Read ‘The Female Masculinist’ – a right-wing lesbian :

http://malechauvinist.blogspot.com/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Firepower October 13, 2009 at 12:28

Novaseeker

Well, that’s a problem of framing the issue poorly — or allowing it to be framed for us.

Untrue. It’s not a mere issue of frame. It’s a matter of concrete legislation passed into law. Legal sanction for male inequality is the ultimate frame. All encoded laws are. Perhaps it is a misunderstanding, so I will restate it and write that turning back the clock will not work.

In my view, we can’t be about “turning the clock back”. For starters, it generally doesn’t work — sure there have been reactionary moments in history, but they generally get reversed in due course.

Reactionary change has proved durable. The American Revolution. Suffrage. Anti-slavery. The 60′s. There are many more, but it is the fortuitous combination of revolutionary will, versus a vulnerable power structure that predicts success. Currently, there are few indications to reveal the status quo as feeble.

From my perspective, we need to eschew the roles of the past and carve out new ones for ourselves and, importantly, force this freedom and equality down feminist throats until they choke on it…

Agreed, but until current proposed goals of male suffrage are explained to be different than what we enjoyed in the past, much of it is just elegant barstool talk of the he-man womanhater’s club variety sure to send alarms to the current power structure that views it as ‘dangerously’ regressive. They >will</b use the sovereign legal power of the State to combat threatening dissent – as all do.

Make no mistake: America is indeed run by the Pelosis, Feinsteins and Boxers. All we need do is look at the Oval Office. People get the government they deserve. They will never willingly, easily, relinquish wielding their power – it is too intoxicating. America wants change, but only if it's entertaining.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 12:30

Given the resources arrayed against us, I’d say we men have more in common with the VC than the feminists.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Ovid October 13, 2009 at 12:32

This isn’t the best place for this,but anybody interested in a little activism might want to acquaint themselves with this:

http://counterfem.blogspot.com/2009/10/dubious-rape-case-in-oregon.html#links

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 12:36

The Vietnam analogy is a good one. When I was a teenager, young men my age were getting drafted and sent over there. The guys who refused to go were hunted down by federal marshals and dragged to the induction center in handcuffs and leg irons.

These days I feel pretty much the same way about marriage or even dating. If women want to get their lapdog Joe Biden to pass some sort of law requiring men to marry, and send federal marshals after the draft resisters to drag them to the altar in handcuffs and leg irons, maybe they can draft husbands. Otherwise, I see a lot of fish without bicycles in the immediate and longer term future.

Globalman October 13, 2009 at 12:38

@Paul,
as far as ‘game’ goes. A mate of mine who is an alpha (call him Mr. Truth) took me under his wing and gave me some tips. Now it is easy for me to find women. Though, I still prefer to date women I know and I really don’t like picking up new women…it’s all a bit of a bore. I don’t have any ‘thrill’ in meeting a new woman. I have no ‘thrill of the chase’ or ‘thrill of the conquest’…my mum really ruined me like that!! LOL!!

I can play the ‘alpha’ role if I want…..but I can also play the ‘beta provider’ role….both work for my target age group. 30-35. Since I only date eastern chicks living in Germany that age group is nearly always a chick with one or two kids home being raised by mamma who is in Germany doing bar work or sales work and looking for a ‘beta provider’ to pay for her and her kids. They know alphas don’t stick around so they are looking for a high beta. She always has a story about how her ex-husband is a drunk or wife beater. T

Married men are quite ok to target for them too…..Mr Truth was hit on by a 20 something romanian chick (he’s 40+). When he pointed out his wedding ring she just said “Well I’m sure you’d be happy to divorce your wife for me.” She asked him if he would consider leaving his wife for her in 15 minute flat….I was sitting there watching the whole thing…it was amazing.

We have had women invite themselves to our table while we are having our pre dinner drinks and say things like “I just want to talk, I am lonely and don’t have a boyfriend to talk to. So can I talk to you guys? I don’t want sex or anything. I’m not a slut. I just want some male company.” The first time this sort of thing happened I was in shock…now I just laugh at it…One day a chick was hitting on me in front of Mr. Truth and she finally took no for an answer. She just turned around to Mr. Truth and started hitting on him. LOL!! They are so desperate.

My big assets in dating are:
1. I have money.
2. I am in reasonable shape.
3. I have money.
4. I have a 23 year track record as a ‘beta provider’.
5. I have money. LOL!!

I have a little pitch I go through in conjunction with finding out a little about her. They have to be 30-35 grown up behind the iron curtain and at least 7 on my scale of looks and I can assure you that’s pretty hot. Once a woman comes over to me and starts hitting on me I ask her these questions up front. She has to be persistent. They know when they walk to my table that they have to provide sex to get anywhere. That’s the entry price of even talking to me. If they don’t fit the profile I ask them to leave. If they fit the profile I let them stay. It is up to her to present herself well enough for me to be willing to have sex with her. I have turned it right around and refuse to ‘persue’ women at all. I make it clear that I am the one who needs to be persued. I don’t do ‘women friends’. I do ‘relaxionships’. As long as she is relaxing to be around she can stay.

Mr. Truth told me something very valuable: “Women make much of the power of the pussy. But there is also the power of money. And between the power of pussy and money, money wins every time. You, grasshopper, have the power of money if you want to use it.” So I do….very blatantly. They are really that pathetic.

At first, when this worked so well I was all ‘excited’ by my new found skill at getting laid by so many beautiful women. Then, I found two favs which was good. When the others started turning over as they figured out they didn’t rate against my favs I was really saddened by how pathetic these women were. They would throw themselves at me giving me the full on ‘demo model’ etc and protest how they had ‘never met a man like me in their life’ only to move on as soon as they figured out I was not going to give them any money. Worse than prostitutes. At least prostitutes are honest about sex for money. And these are the ‘good women’!! I won’t even touch a western chick!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 12:39

The Fifth Horseman,

I disagree with you, and what little I’ve read of The Female Masculinist on The Spearhead.

This publication has many inherently good points that are laying a solid foundation for a widespread acknowledgment of the problems in society, but I also feel there’s also more anger than can be productive.

(In the interest of full disclosure: I am not a troll nor am I looking to incite any sort of riot. Just thinking aloud)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 12:53

In the interest of full disclosure: I am not a troll nor am I looking to incite any sort of riot. Just thinking aloud

Don’t worry, Suzanne, I don’t think anyone sees you that way here.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 12:54

Suzanne,

Unless you are willing to see that feminism has done tremendous damage to the very fabric of society on many levels, you are doing nothing to achieve what you wish for.

The Spearhead has many fair and balanced articles.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Globalman October 13, 2009 at 13:00

Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 11:55 am
“How are we supposed to build families and restore the values that make children good men and women if we’re surveying the scene like it’s Saigon circa 1968?”
Suzanne, that’s the point. You are not supposed to build families. You’re not supposed to have children. The UNs #1 priority is to reduce the worlds population. One way of doing that is making women so horrible no intelligent man would want to have a baby with one. They have succeeded….;-) The only men who are having babies are the morons. And that is what the PTB want. People who are as stupid as two planks so they can plug them into their NWO. Intelligent and creative people will be culled from the herd.

PS. I like your anaology. I said to my ex that should she kick off a war with me that her role would be hitler and mine would be stalin and our family would look like Stalingrad circa 1944. She didn’t seem to realise that her situation was quite hopeless strategically. Can’t blame her. Women are highly limited in brain processing capacity. It’s been 23 months and she has not seen a cent from me yet….LOL! Though she will probably get 100% of the house….I am trying to stop that thru common law.

“it’s really unsettling to think that my future husband and/or any guy I date regards me with the same love and trust as he would the Vietcong insurgency.”

Oh..I don’t think he will view you that favourably. I wouldn’t. Women I date I totally assume care nothing about me and only want my money and are liars and thievs. After all that describes my wife. Why wouldn’t the next one be the same. This way I am not disappointed!! Indeed, I won’t even talk to a western woman so horrible are they today.

You will likely be viewed as something of a cross between a leech, a viper, a rattlesnake and a cockroach. You have much to thank your sistas for.. ;-) I know men who (among men) routinely refer to women as ‘leeches’ or ‘cockroaches’. Many, many more refer to you as various brands of snakes. Women have not degraded themselves to that level for me yet but you can be assured that plenty of men see women like this now. Well done!!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Globalman October 13, 2009 at 13:05

Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 12:39 pm
“In the interest of full disclosure: I am not a troll nor am I looking to incite any sort of riot. Just thinking aloud”
Suzanne, that is a trolling statement. 99% of women can’t think. And those who can don’t need to do it aloud.. ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Puma October 13, 2009 at 13:07

Oh come on Globalman.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 13:08

Fifth Horseman,

I’ve taken great pains to stress that the fault lies equally on both sides of the battle lines and to distance myself from the “feminist” movement. My point is that I just don’t agree with this assertion that we should treat each other like the enemy or that marriage/long-term relationships should be avoided at all costs. Yes, there’s a problem, but the answer is not in beating the idealogy out of each other until of us bleeds to death.

Forgetting the emotional side of relationships, the physical future of the world depends on our ability to prosper with one another and procreate, which can’t be accomplished if we continue to think of each other as the enemy or as only a means to satisfy a sexual end.

Like I said, the bulk of The Spearhead is really on the right track, but there are a few comments here and there that truly scare me.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 13:10

Suzanne,

Keep in mind that it is women who have problems with committment, not men. 70-90% of divorces are initiated by the woman, where the man did not wish to be divorced.

Also, women do not have the moral fiber that men have. Men routinely fight injustices against women, but now that the injustices against men are so much greater, where are the women seeking to correct them? Women are not at the same moral level as men – they are much lower.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 13:10

Globalman,

It’s cool, I’m automotive journalist. I can take whatever boys club crap you’re laying down ;-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 13:14

Fifth Horseman,

My sincerest condolences for whatever catastrophic relationship failure brought you to a point where you actually believe men have a superior moral fiber. We’re not all cheating sluts, I promise.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 13:17

but there are a few comments here and there that truly scare me.

Good. Look up the old movie “Scared Straight” and ponder the fact that you are being given a free glimpse of the dystopian future toward which this culture is headed at full speed unless someone starts putting on the brakes.

As far as what the “right” amount of anger is regarding these issues, check that link I gave to the false rape society and realize that a huge number of young women have been brainwashed into fearing and hating men. The dating pool for younger men is a nightmare, and the one for older men is filled with wreckage.

Men tried playing nice for the past 4 decades, and you see what we have on our hands. If it takes a little more anger than men have shown in the past to wake women out of their stupor, then you are no position to rule on what the “proper” amount really is.

If you really want to do something about it, instead of taking on the men here who are very burned out on women, try going to some feminist sites and see how much luck you have in getting them to call off their attack dogs. If you are not willing to do that, you are doing nothing but blowing hot air.

The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 13:17

I’ve taken great pains to stress that the fault lies equally on both sides of the battle lines and to distance myself from the “feminist” movement.

I can only agree with the above, if you specify that feminists were evil and short sighted, and men are ‘equally to blame’, to the extent that they let themselves be mistreated this way.

or that marriage/long-term relationships should be avoided at all costs.

In the current legal climate, marriage is extremely risk for the man. This is what you fail to see – if the laws make marriage so risky for men, men will avoid it, leaving an equal number of women unmarried when they face their Wile E. Coyote moment (the moment when a woman’s attractiveness is no longer enough to interest most men, which is age 34-37).

the physical future of the world depends on our ability to prosper with one another and procreate,

So what are you doing to change the laws that make marriage an extremely unattractive prospect to men? If Western society makes it unattractive for men to marry, Western society will deservedly die.

You cannot expect men to marry when the deal is so rigged against them. You need to work on enticing the customer (men in this case) to come back.

but there are a few comments here and there that truly scare me.

The fringe of The Spearhead is not nearly as crazy as the mainstream of the feminism movement.

Keep in mind, Suzanne, that the physical safety of women is entirely dependent on the ratio of ‘protector’ men to ‘aggressor’ men being above a certain level. While most professional men will never become ‘aggressors’, we could simply decline to act as ‘protectors’, thereby clearing the way for violent thugs to act without resistance.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 13:20

My sincerest condolences for whatever catastrophic relationship failure brought you to a point where you actually believe men have a superior moral fiber.

That men are superior to women morally is a simple fact. The evidence bears it out. I gave a basic example already, and others abound.

Accept this fact, if you actually seek to address the problem.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 13:24

Zed & Fifth Horseman

You know, my intention here was merely to assure you that there was at least one level-headed, professional woman who was aware of the gross double-standard and strive to conduct themselves in a manner that counteracts it.

My attempt to empathize feels as though it has turned into an attack on my personal ethos, which I is completely unwarranted. I guess I should have stuck with a simple “Keep up the good work.”

By the way, thank you Welmer for being hospitable. I sincerely appreciate it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 13:25

Ferdinand Bardamu of the amoral nature of women.

Women call for slavery on men that WOMEN abandoned against the man’s will.

W0men are amoral. To the extent that there are responsible adults in the world, most of those adults are men.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 13:26

Suzanne,

If you want support from men here, tell us what you are actually *doing* to correct the mistreatment of men (which does affect any brother, son, nephew, etc. that you may have).

What are you doing about it?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 13:27

Fifth,

There is a quote I believe everyone is familiar with regarding the similarities between winning a fight on the Internet and winning a certain specialized set of athletic events.

Best of luck to the rest of the Spearhead Crew, I’ll continue to lurk.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 13:34

I love that quote. Suzanne gets +1.

(but seriously, what exactly are we fighting over again?)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 13:38

Suzanne, the problem now is that it really has gone past the point of civility. A lot of women are going to learn this the hard way, i.e. many will find themselves used and left, lied to, and avoided if they seek commitment.

Men are subject to catastrophe at the whims of the women in their lives, and they are starting to catch on to this. I know that a lot of women are good people, but they still reflexively support ALL women — including the cheating sluts. Therefore, in aggregate they appear to be an enemy (this is also a characteristic of male psychology; men tend to see things in abstract, monolithic terms).

My recommendation to women who like to start engaging in damage control would be to actually punish women who behave badly rather than empathize with them and support them, or simply raise an eyebrow. If, for example, a woman wants to fix things and she is a judge, she should order adulterous wives to give up their children and house for wrecking their marriages, instead of this sham justice that supposedly “works in the best interests of the child” (which it does not, because encouraging women to ditch their children’s fathers by rewarding them financially is not good for children).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 13:41

What Novaseeker was saying in this and a previous essay is that we have men in various stages of MGTOW:

1. Cluelessness & Confusion
2. Realization & Anger
3. Understanding & Action
4. Wisdom

Many of the guys when they first discover the community are at Stage #2. (the stage #1 guys are the unaware who have yet to see that the Matrix exists at all).

The Stage #2 guys are still in quite a bit of (rightous) anger . However that anger can and sometimes does push one into outright misogyny. This is both counterproductive and self defeating.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
wow October 13, 2009 at 13:48

Check out how this feminist views men. I mean this chick is manufacturing fear. This is the number one paper in Canada!…She has a job writing this…..everyday!

hxxp://thestar.blogs.com/broadsides/2009/10/schr%C3%B6dingers-rapist.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Lukobe October 13, 2009 at 13:49

Meanwhile, don’t run people like Suzanne off — that’s counterproductive.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 13:54

Meanwhile, don’t run people like Suzanne off — that’s counterproductive.

It seems that way, but maybe it isn’t. I think women are accustomed to courtesy, and perhaps lack thereof will have more impact. But I don’t really know.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
Novaseeker October 13, 2009 at 13:56

It’s as Welmer says, Suzanne. It’s gone on long enough — far too long, in fact, as women and their strong-man enablers have crafted a legal system that runs roughshod over most men. Anger is the result of that.

As I wrote in my own article yesterday, anger is a part of the process. Feminism was chock full of anger — visceral, man-hating rage, in fact. I was there, towards the end of the revolutionary period. Zed lived through the whole damned thing. Anger is a part of movements for social change, and generally speaking the ones whom the change is directed at are the ones who say “there is too much anger”. I believe anger is not a bad thing in itself, because it is a really great source of energy. As I wrote yesterday, at some stage that anger and the energy it generates needs to be redirected in ways that create change in individual lives. And that’s a part of what our communities do. But the anger itself is not a bad thing, in my view.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 14:00

Best of luck to the rest of the Spearhead Crew, I’ll continue to lurk.

. . .instead of getting up and doing something tangible that is of actual value to us.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 14:02

Here is another example of the globally spreading double-standard:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Man-cant-deny-alimony-citing-insufficient-funds-NCW-/articleshow/5121938.cms

Indian fembots are catching on to the fact that you CAN squeeze blood from a stone. Same double standards as here. Post-patriarchal rights for the women, combined with still-patriarchal obligations for the men. A shameless double standard. Having your cake and eating it too.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 14:06

Suzanne,

Your “understanding” coming from your safe and privileged position will be virtually impossible to distinguish from self-serving self-interest. The Spearhead seems to be getting quite a bit of attention right now from women who are anything but level-headed. You picked an unfortunate time to show up, but a lot of men have been waiting so long for a few women to wake up to the issues that they have decided to go ahead without women. Such men are likely to be unimpressed by “support” which carries no risk.

Like it or not, there are men who have decided to give up on the strategy of waiting for women to wake up to how unfairly some things are tilted in their favor. They are moving on the strategy of making feminism into women’s problem. Then, whatever women choose to do about it will not have quite the same taint of alms about it.

I will re-emphasize Welmer’s suggestion here –

I know that a lot of women are good people, but they still reflexively support ALL women — including the cheating sluts. Therefore, in aggregate they appear to be an enemy

My recommendation to women who like to start engaging in damage control would be to actually punish women who behave badly rather than empathize with them and support them, or simply raise an eyebrow.

That is the bottom line. Now that feminism is becoming women’s problem, they can choose to do something about it or not. In the short term, finding ways to keep it from continuing to be men’s problem exclusively, or at all, is probably a far more productive strategy for men.

Lukobe – losing the “support” of someone who never actually does anything is not much of a loss.

Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 14:08

Meanwhile, don’t run people like Suzanne off — that’s counterproductive.

No; I don’t like your behavior; you change to suit my personal preferences.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:12

Meanwhile, don’t run people like Suzanne off — that’s counterproductive.

We were polite but firm, and asked questions that would give her an opportunity to ‘give us something to work with’. This is far more than *any* feminist blog would do with respect to understanding the other side.

We do not have to be any more accomodating than that. Lukobe – you may want to read Roissy’s inner game post from today.

Puma,

India will not succumb to this quite so fast. Male-female dynamics there are still about the same as in the 19th century Anglosphere (for better or for worse).

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Fiercely Independent John Nada October 13, 2009 at 14:13

I would simply echo to any female here what was already mentioned, albeit with a bit more specificity. They can start by rallying other women (that represent 54% of the voting populace) to repeal 3 key pieces of legislation:

1. VAWA
2. IMBRA
3. The Bradley Amendment

Get to work, Suzanne! That’s a LOT of gravel to shovel.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:14

That was a classic ‘test’ from Suzanne (know as a ‘shit test’ in Game parlance), which Acksiom quickly disposed of, but Lukobe failed to pass, unfortunately.

No sweat, but Lukobe, you have to develop a radar for this sort of thing, particularly if you have recently married.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:16

Puma,

I like your 4 stages. I would say stages 3 and 4 are extremely helped through exposure to, and practice of, Game. Sleeping with a lot of women is not mandatory, but having that choice is empowering.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:18

It seems that way, but maybe it isn’t. I think women are accustomed to courtesy, and perhaps lack thereof will have more impact. But I don’t really know.

You are mostly right, Welmer. Lack of courtesy is not needed (and I do not think I was discourteous to Suzanne), but passing shit tests is a must, with courtesy or not. This was a shit test that needed to be passed.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Lukobe October 13, 2009 at 14:23

Don’t worry, 5H, I’m doing fine at home.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:27

Don’t worry, 5H, I’m doing fine at home.

In the beginning everyone does. But after the 3-year mark, things fray. That is the whole point. Ask the others here who have been married.

Dave in Hawaii, among others, could be among the most valuable people you ever gain exposure to, even if it may not be apparent at this time.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Novaseeker October 13, 2009 at 14:34

In the beginning everyone does. But after the 3-year mark, things fray. That is the whole point. Ask the others here who have been married.

Except that with guys who are newly married I think it’s better to leave them be for a while. Lukobe knows the theories. And he presumably knows the signs as well. If and when they pop up, he can do something about them, hopefully. But in any case most guys who have just been married are not going to take kindly to that kind of advice, so in my view it’s best to leave them be.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 14:36

Exactly. Let him enjoy his honeymoon. If it lasts for him, we can all be very happy for him that he lucked out and got one of the few good ones.

Advocatus Diaboli October 13, 2009 at 14:41

zed,

People act the way they do because they can, not because they should.

Unless the underlying circumstances change, ridicule may not be useful.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:41

That’s fine, no worries.

I just happen to be someone who loves to play ‘Game professor’ and point out : “This was a ‘test’. Here is an example of how to pass the test, and here is a parallel example of not passing it.” Nothing specific to the individuals involved.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 14:44

Unless the underlying circumstances change, ridicule may not be useful.

Ridicule is one of the most effective means possible of applying social pressure. When the consequences of actions or attitudes shift from encouragement to censure, that is a change in the underlying conditions.

Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 14:46

. . .instead of getting up and doing something tangible that is of actual value to us.

I thought raising awareness (personal/others) was the most important part of this website.

I haven’t done anything tangible for “men” …should I stop reading?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0
Lukobe October 13, 2009 at 14:46

Thanks, Novaseeker and zed. I did get one of the good ones. You can ask Welmer.

5H: Ask the others here who have been married — not necessarily a representative sample.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 14:50

Mr. M,

I think you know what we mean about being constructive (even passively) vs. being useless/brainwashed/sustaining of the status quo.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 14:53

M is no boyscout. The man is in a death-match with his ex-wife raining contempt of court orders on him merely for having an MRA blog. He is one of those guys that Roissy hands out medals to, bravery in the field of battle.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 14:53

…. unless I am confusing him with another M.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 14:55

I haven’t done anything tangible for “men” …should I stop reading?

Are you tacitly asking us to change our behavior for no better reason than your own unwillingness to responsibly control your own emotional state, and for even less recompense?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 14:56

I haven’t done anything tangible for “men” …should I stop reading?

Do whatever you like. If you aren’t part of the group “men”, then what group do you belong to? I really don’t think most of the guys are here as a form of social work – they are concerned because the issues have had a direct impact on their lives. If they have not had such an impact on yours, what motivates your interest?

The issue which always arises when women try to give their input is that there is an implied threat of “losing their support” if we don’t tone down the rhetoric. This is one of the many tools which has been used for years to keep men from saying what they are really thinking. The issue sorts itself out when the question is raised – “what is really going to be lost by losing that support.”

If you would threaten to “leave” because something said here bothered or offended you, most of the men here would probably take the positon “don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.” Whether or not anyone has done anything is not the issue – it is people who have never done anything threatening to continue to never do anything unless we modify our message and language to suit them.

Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 15:25

…. unless I am confusing him with another M.

Yeah, different M. I think there’s another Mr.M on Glennsacks, too.

Zed -

My point is, and something I am trying to figure out, is how do I individually make a contribution to the MRA movement/act (particularly, other than raising my own awareness and that of others around me, when possible)? I guess I would be on step 3 of 4, mentioned by Puma @ 1:41.

In the mean time I read the articles and appreciate the insight/perspectives, just didn’t agree with Acksiom’s comment about doing so (rather, doing nothing but reading).

Also, obviously I am interested in the articles written here, I’ve read every since the site launched.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 15:38

Suzanne October 13, 2009 at 1:14 pm
“We’re not all cheating sluts, I promise.”
Nope. But you are all dishonest. Women claim the right of perjury in court and other women do not denounce this…ergo you are all liars and I do not trust any of you…not a one…now go do something useful……make a man a sammich.

“Meanwhile, don’t run people like Suzanne off – that’s counterproductive.”
Nope. Women like suzanne are a complete waste of time apart from demonstrating that they are stupid and not actually going to do anything for the benefit of men. She’s a waste of time….period…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 15:40

My point is, and something I am trying to figure out, is how do I individually make a contribution to the MRA movement/act (particularly, other than raising my own awareness and that of others around me, when possible)?

Actually, I think that is a HUGE contribution at the present. The MRM is still in its infancy – in the “consciousness raising” phase. The first step is to achieve enough public awareness that our POV is not shouted down every time some guy tries to bring it up.

The internet is men’s tool, and viral is our method. A few years ago Canadian feminists tried to head off men’s end run around their control of the media and their Lace Curtain which prevented any coverage of men’s issues by getting MRA sites declared as “Hate Speech.” That one flopped, and since then the amount of material on the net has grown exponentially.

You can contribute by spreading the word, by talking about these issues with other men, by doing your own research (a couple of excellent links given above), and once you feel prepared with enough information, by adding your own comments and perspectives to posts you see here and elsewhere.

There has been a sea change in the past 5-6 years. Up until then, men would shouted down, silenced, censored, and in many cases their sites just nuked without warning because they went against the PC mafia. Slowly the wall of denial began to crack, and you will see MRA sentiments cropping up on every major news site article on the issues as well as many blogs and forums. The meme is slowly spreading and cultural attitudes are slowly shifting.

I know I held Suzanne’s feet to the fire, but I’m certain there were no personal attacks of the sort being dumped by women by the dozens in PMAFT’s sci fi thread. I’ve seen women use this ploy thousands of times to imply a threat of withdrawing “support” due to ideas or expressions they don’t like. When asked what difference there will be between them “supporting” us and not “supporting” us, the answer is generally “absolutely none.”

That being the case, we lose a lot by toning down the edge of our message – which FINALLY seems to be starting to get through to some people – in exchange for nothing.

One message people will tend to get here a lot is “shut up and shovel the fuckin’ gravel, or at least just shut up.”

Justin October 13, 2009 at 15:42

So we are supposed to act more like women? That is your solution? Be bitchier and meaner and more shallow than women?

You’re kidding right?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 15:44

Mr. M,

One big thing you can do is if you know young men in your life (nephews, cousins, neighbors, friends, etc.), point them towards resources that inform them about how divorce laws are rigged against men. Point them to resources like this for starters :
http://weddedabyss.wordpress.com/

or this :

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/decivilizing-human-nature-unleashed/

Then, at least their decision to marry (or not) would be an informed one. There are presently far too few avenues for young men to really learn what is going on, and far too many vested interests who are keeping important facts secret.

Do this with young guys who you know. If you make 5 young guys sufficiently informed, you will have done a great humanitarian service.

Ideally, young men should spend a day or two and sit in the audience (open to the public) through a divorce hearing at the local courthouse to witness a random collection of divorces. It is not fun, but it would be real-world, unbiased, valuable education.

If the MRA movement was more ballsy and organized, they would be organizing field trips to quietly witness exactly this.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 16:05

[I] just didn’t agree with Acksiom’s comment about doing so (rather, doing nothing but reading).

Again, are you tacitly asking us to change our behavior for no better reason than your own unwillingness to responsibly control your own emotional state, and for even less recompense?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 16:07

So we are supposed to act more like women? That is your solution? Be bitchier and meaner and more shallow than women? You’re kidding right?

I CAN HAZ ATTRIBUTION?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO October 13, 2009 at 16:12

Shit…. I wish we could all just get along, it feels like things are just so damn hostile between the genders.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 16:23

Again, are you tacitly asking us to change our behavior for no better reason than your own unwillingness to responsibly control your own emotional state, and for even less recompense?

I didn’t agree with your comment I quoted earlier. I didn’t ask, openly or implied, for you to do anything about it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 16:24

Mr. M :

Please see my 3:44 PM comment. You will do a HUGE social good if you take it upon yourself to inform 5 men under-30 about what laws really do apply to them under marriage, and how divorce is usually the woman’s choice inflicted upon them against their will.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 16:30

Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 3:25 pm
“My point is, and something I am trying to figure out, is how do I individually make a contribution to the MRA movement/act ”

It depends on what you have to offer Mr. M. And what you are willing to do.

Warning young men of the danger of women is good. I tell every young man I meet ‘do not get married, do not cohabit’. Some go ahead anyway stupid kids. They have to be responsible for their own decisions.

If you want to do more….and this is entirely your choice, you could do like me. I have studied my arse off to learn common law. We are now helping men in court with FC cases. We are going to need men in each major city to learn this stuff to help the other men in that city by going into the lions den with the guy being abused who will be a nube and defending him from these criminals called judges.

I have committed to fund a full time abused dad in Sydney to do this in the Family Court in Sydney. I will pay him a good living salary to go into court and to prepare documents to get men out of ‘FC’ hell. But I can only afford one full time salary of maybe $A30-$A40K because he does not have to pay tax. I will pay that out of my own pocket. Other men are going to have to learn this stuff and volunteer their time or their money to help men who are being attacked.

I am also creating a ‘pipeline’ to get men out of their country and have men in their country defend them in their absence which is lawful. I have organised contacts with swiss banks for men to get their assets out of their country prior to divorce. I have offered part time employment to an abused Dad to work on my software. I have offered my apartment as accommodation but no-one has taken that up yet. I am a member of another private mens site that is organising getting men out of their country.

In short, I wish to provide a service in Australia that when a man comes to me and says ‘I think I am in real trouble’ we can get the man the very best result at the very lowest cost. We are not creating a charity. Every man we ‘rescue’ will be obligated to put in time and effort similar to what was spent on him to rescue him or to cover the cost of his ‘rescue’. Men will be expected to put money into this enterprise. I spent EUR100K on ‘liars’ and I think we can get a man out of the country and defend him for EUR5-10K. The first few I can afford to pay for myself but I am going to need more men to ‘pitch in’.

Men like me are working at the ‘pointy end’ where we are defying the criminal just-us system. And so far there are very few of us. Most men dis-believe us. This takes about 3 months solid work to get up to speed on so we are looking for men who are really committed. But in the end, these men will be directly responsible for saving mens lives and keeping them on Gods earth to be there for their kids one day.

This is now a part of my lifes work. I will do it until I die or the NWO takes over…No man should go through what I went through.

By the way….I am currently trying to encourage/challenge men in Ireland to form a dejour jury and try some FC judges. If you want to go as far as sitting on a dejour jury to try FC judges accused of crimes THAT would be HUGE. Men are scared shitless of trying a judge. We need more men who are willing to try FC judges for their crimes. It is a crime to deprive a man of his children. It is a crime to deprive a man of his property and income. We need honest men of honour and integrity willing to risk their lives against the criminals in the just-us system to incarcerate them for their crimes. I can tell you this. Any man who sits next to me on a jury will have my respect. Want to join in the fun ??

Gents? Anyone else? Who would like to sit next to me on a jury and try a criminal FC Judge? I can only sit in Ireland/Australia. A part of common law is that it should be men from the community background. For other countries. I’d be happy to come to the trial of ANY FC Judge we can drag into dejour court. How many corrupt judges will be need to put away before the rest behave? Probably not many.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 16:33

5th –

Interesting idea about sitting in on divorce cases. I might have to look into that. Actually I was speaking to a recently-grad law school friend about his take on divorces and whatnot. This would take it to the next (real) level.

zed –

I don’t mind the articles, and its language/edge, at all. Love the stuff, actually. Guess I just dislike the e-debates. For me it usually veers off the MRA track and into oblivion.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Novaseeker October 13, 2009 at 16:37

Ideally, young men should spend a day or two and sit in the audience (open to the public) through a divorce hearing at the local courthouse to witness a random collection of divorces. It is not fun, but it would be real-world, unbiased, valuable education.

This actually varies very much by state. Many states do not allow anyone other than the litigants and counsel into family court, for reasons of “privacy”. This in fact is one of the main reasons why the system is a black box — in many states its a star chamber type court of equity –> it can do pretty much what it likes, outside of view, with no accountability. It’s also common for the judges names to be removed from the filings and orders records for the cases — “to protect them from violence” … and accountability.

The family law system is a bizarre parallel legal universe that operates outside the constitution for the most part.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
piercedhead October 13, 2009 at 16:38

“So we are supposed to act more like women? That is your solution? Be bitchier and meaner and more shallow than women?”

We need to act quite unlike women – and fortunately, because we are men, it’s not an act. We need to stop worrying so much about what other people think. That means doing whatever you think is necessary, without waiting for the respectability train to pull in to your station.

There have been a ton of brilliant, small ideas mentioned over the past few posts. Boycotting women practitioners is one of them – insist on a male doctor. Leave messages like ‘Don’t Get Married’ slipped into library books. Send links to this site to men you know who are not yet clued in. If anyone shows an interest in Father’s rights, direct them to Glenn Sacks’ site. Or in false rape accusation, send them to ‘False Rape Society’. Or sexual abuse of men, to ‘Toy Soldiers’.

Maybe there’s some small area you could personally address and publish your own blog, becoming a name for that one specific crime against men that you can make a difference in.

People entering any one of these sites have a much greater likelihood of being drawn to the others. Building up these numbers is how we counter the mass-media conditioning that holds so many men in apathy.

And never under-estimate the drawing power of conflict. It’s power to educate, to entertain and to move people is vital. Offend anyone who would suggest we quieten down a little – they have the moral standing of the murderer who wants his victim to stop screaming.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 16:42

Guess I just dislike the e-debates. For me it usually veers off the MRA track and into oblivion.

That’s the “viral” part. Remember the old PR axiom that “there is no such thing as bad publicity.” The e-debates pull people out of passive spectator mode, raise blood pressures, get passions stirring, and a lot of very honest things get said. Look at the buzz being generated by PMAFT’s sci fi post – 200+ comments for something that isn’t a big league blog, particularly one less than 3 weeks old, is astronomical.

The bottom line is that men have been silent and allowed themselves to be silenced for far too long. When people are used to a group not speaking up, they get taken by surprise when that group starts and the discussions sometimes get heated. Eventually they will settle down to a more realistic and substantive treatment of the issues.

The attention and buzz this magazine has gotten so far is a real indication that the dialogue being opened here is long overdue and there is a huge sense of need and demand for it.

The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 16:43

In California, anyone can go and sit in the back.

The family law system is a bizarre parallel legal universe that operates outside the constitution for the most part.

There is the problem. Very few people know that there is a brutal, leftist/communist, secretive shadow country, just as bad as Cuba or North Korea, right within America, where none of the normal values of a prosperous democracy reside. No jury, no ‘innocent until proven guilty’, no accountability for one’s own actions, etc.

If 10-30% of the male workforce are seeing a marginal income tax of 70% on their earnings due to child support = alimony, why will they invent new technologies and start new enterprises? That can’t be good for the economy if 10-30% of the male workforce is effectively in slave labor at a 70% marginal tax rate, with no incentive to operate at the maximum of their abilities.

I daresay that this is a huge component of our economic malaise. You can’t disincentivize 10-30% of men this way, and expect the economy to be unaffected.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 16:43

5th – I’ve tried quite a few guys, actually. Sadly, the majority of responses I get from younger ( < 22) men are lack of interest. Not on their radar, for the most part. 22-30 can vary greatly, again depending on their place in life.

Also, its a hard/touchy topic to bring up. Can't really head on to my fav bar and strike up conversation with my co-workers about how screwed up the legal system is. Most don't know, don't care, or just don't want to hear about it. Don't get me wrong though, I definitely inject MRA thinking into conversations where applicable/relevant.

global –

How exactly did you study the FC law? I was contemplating going to law school, but decided against it simply because I cannot afford to quit my job and/or fund another degree.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
FWO October 13, 2009 at 16:46

Brilliant points!!! Many men (especially outside of MRA/MGTOW men) are antiquated in just about every way (IE: romanticized Victorian notions about women, thinking with their little heads instead of their big heads, etcetera). It is very difficult for most married men to wrap their brain around the concept that women are the enemy, because they are sleeping with the enemy. However, single men and divorced men can wrap their brains around this concept when confronted with logic, facts, truth, every day real life examples, etcetera.

Here is how I once explained it on the FWO blog:

Most American women say that they only support the “Girl Power” aspects of the hate speech that Feminists/Female Supremacists preach, not the actual man-hating…
The huge problem with the mentality of most American Women, and even the mentality of most American men (outside of the MRA/MGTOW movement) is that they think only radical Feminist/Female Supremacy leaders are the problem. However, if someone where to belong to the KKK, and say that they only support the “White Power” aspect of the KKK (but not hatred of black people), they would still, rightfully so, be called out for their bigotry. If someone were belong to the Aryan Nation, but say the only support “Aryan Power” (but not the hatred of Jews) aspect of the organization they too would still, rightfully so, be called out for their bigotry. That’s why I’m calling out and rebuking American/Western women for their support of Feminism/Female Supremacy, and I challenge all men to do the same. I have no faith that American women will ever do it, and don’t ask them to do it, because most are anti-American cowards who will never stand up against evil as long as they reap the benefits of it.

–FWO

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 16:48

The attention and buzz this magazine has gotten so far is a real indication that the dialogue being opened here is long overdue and there is a huge sense of need and demand for it.

Haha, great point, actually. The sheer number of posts I saw on this and the Sci-Fi article is what led me to read the comments today.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 16:50

Fifth Horseman – I’ve tried quite a few guys, actually. Sadly, the majority of responses I get from younger ( < 22) men are lack of interest. Not on their radar, for the most part. 22-30 can vary greatly, again depending on their place in life.

Also, its a hard/touchy topic to bring up. Can't really head on to my fav bar and strike up conversation with my co-workers about how screwed up the legal system is. Most don't know, don't care, or just don't want to hear about it. Don't get me wrong though, I definitely inject MRA thinking into conversations where applicable/relevant.

global –

How exactly did you study the FC law? I was contemplating going to law school, but decided against it simply because I cannot afford to quit my job and/or fund another degree.

(Hm – apologize if repost, maybe?)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 16:51

Hm, I think a comment is being filtered. Not sure why?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 17:00

HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO October 13, 2009 at 4:12 pm
“Shit. I wish we could all just get along, it feels like things are just so damn hostile between the genders.”
Men are not hostile to women, women are hostile to men. Intelligent men are indifferent to western women now…..a very, very small number, like George Sedoni are ‘hostile’. The bad guys have programmed women to be hostile and there is nothing to do but let them die off while we date women from non-feminised countries who are not hostile and grow a new crop of women for our sons.

In any case…there is no reason to bother to ‘get along’ with western women. They can be safely ignored. Nothing pisses a woman off more than being ignored. Women are attention whores and the best way to bring a woman to heal (apart from spanking them ;-) ) is to ignore her. Just walk away. Ignore her. Do not acknowledge her existence. I LOVE doing this…it drives them insane!!!

Why would you want to ‘get along’ with a western woman anyway? They are totally worthless to a good man now. On the SMH blogs the women constantly go on about how ‘valuable’ they are. Really? I have asked: “Please give me ONE example of value a woman can bring to a man like me. I make USD300K+ a year in a good year. I travel the world for business. I am 45. Single. Extremely well educated. Top 20 in my field of expertise. My clients are global household names. Please tell me, what, exactly, do you have to offer me?”

The ONLY response I have had so far is ‘I would make all your dreams come true’. What kind of vacuous bullshit is that?? Thats not an ‘offer’! That’s more vaccuous womanly fluff….

I want: what do you look like, measurements, weight, rating, photos, how many hours of sex, how many meals cooked, how much cleaning work done…..things I can count and relate to as being something I would enjoy or be useful!! LOL!! I get my apartments and clothes cleaned for USD50 per week and cloths between USD20-30 per week. So call it USD100 per week. So I can buy all my ‘cleaning’ services for USD100 per week max.

I can buy all my cooking at USD200 per week max if I eat out a lot and drink a lot. On easier weeks its USD100. The place I eat breakfast? I walk in and say “The usual please” and she makes me a lovely bacon, egg, tomato, mushroom, sausage, toast breakfast with orange juice. I give her GBP5 and she smiles and is happy. I often comment to her that she is so much lovelier to see every day than my wife was. I ask for breakfast and she makes it with a smile on he face and it costs me GBP5? Who the HELL would be married? I don’t even know this womans name because I don’t need to know her name to get her to cook me a lovely breakfast. I asked once to be polite but instantly forgot it because she is no one to me.

My ‘family’ used to cost me EUR6,000 per month and I used to pay income tax around EUR4K per month. I now pay EUR2,000 per month in living costs and no income tax. Do you guys have any idea what GBP5 looks like to me? It’s FREE. For me, every service I get from a woman for cooking and cleaning is FREE by any sensible measure. The woman who cleans my london apartment? I have never met her! GREAT!! Do you think this woman has ever nagged me or bitched to me about cleaning my apartment? Hell no…she wants her little bit of coloured worthless paper calle GBP!! LOL!!

Yes, I have become a shallow male chauvenist pig and women only have value to me based on what they are willing to do for me because I do not want any more kids. Women have a value to a man as the mother of his children…and many men will die for that woman….I would have….delusionally…..when the woman is not the mother of his children? Well what ‘value’ does she bring? Really? Roll on cyborg dolls I say.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 17:02

Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Hm, I think a comment is being filtered. Not sure why?

I saw this yesterday on one of mine…I think it is a software problem…it turned up later…one of mine is currently doing the same….

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 17:04

Let me try break it up, then.

global –

How exactly did you study the FC law? I was contemplating going to law school, but decided against it simply because I cannot afford to quit my job and/or fund another degree.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 17:04

and.

5th – I’ve tried quite a few guys, actually. Sadly, the majority of responses I get from younger ( < 22) men are lack of interest. Not on their radar, for the most part. 22-30 can vary greatly, again depending on their place in life.

Also, its a hard/touchy topic to bring up. Can't really head on to my fav bar and strike up conversation with my co-workers about how screwed up the legal system is. Most don't know, don't care, or just don't want to hear about it. Don't get me wrong though, I definitely inject MRA thinking into conversations where applicable/relevant.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 17:04

5th – I’ve tried quite a few guys, actually. Sadly, the majority of responses I get from younger men are lack of interest. Not on their radar, for the most part. Those my age (around 27) can vary greatly, again depending on their place in life.

Also, its a hard/touchy topic to bring up. Can’t really head on to my fav bar and strike up conversation with my co-workers about how screwed up the legal system is. Most don’t know, don’t care, or just don’t want to hear about it. Don’t get me wrong though, I definitely inject MRA thinking into conversations where applicable/relevant.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 17:05

links can get comments held up. To be honest, it’s been hard to keep up today.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 17:06

I didn’t agree with your comment I -q-u-o-t-e-d- misrepresented earlier.

Fixed that for ya.

I didn’t ask, openly or implied, for you to do anything about it.

Then why did you misrepresent your own situation as being anything like that of Suzanne, who did, and got snapped back for doing so without offering anything in return other than her approval?

Why did you even bring it up in the first place?

So what if you disagree with my comment? Why should anybody care? You haven’t given anyone a reason to care whether or not you disagree, just as Suzanne never gave us a reason to care about her juvenile refusal to take normal adult responsibility for her personal emotional state.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 17:07

Hm, wasn’t links, I did use the “less than” and “greater than” symbols, thats about it. Well, if 2 or 3 similar comments come rolling through from me, please delete.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Welmer October 13, 2009 at 17:11

that might do it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 17:22

@Mr.M

Well, you can lead a horse to water… as the old saying goes.

Fundamentally, everyone’s viewpoint is going to be shaped by their own experiences. There is generally no way to convince someone of something that is completely contrary to their own experience.

I don’t think we need to go creating demand where there isn’t any, and as much denial as I have run into over the years, I won’t waste much time on a guy who thinks things are just fine. Maybe they will remain fine for him, and that is great. If they stop being fine, then FC will teach him more about the issues than we ever could. We’ve done what we can by warning him – if he decides to ignore the warning and goes ahead and gets creamed, some of the responsibility for that lies on him.

There are plenty of casualties of FC, or false accusations, or just the plain day in and day out offensiveness of women, out there. Several times the term “critical mass” has been used in discussions here, and these guys burned by the system don’t drop off the face of the earth, they keep accumulating and representing an increasing percentage of the population.

Natural Alphas and guys who get good at Game will probably sleep their way through dozens of women up until their mid-30s, by which time their contempt for women will be so ingrained that they probably won’t ever marry. The women who have been used and discarded during those years will go into WSM (Wallet Seeking Missile) mode and many of them will end up like the woman in this article if they can’t find a wallet to attach themselves to –
Notes from the edge of fertility. A woman, her body clock ticking, searches for options

Probably the best we can hope for is to warn the smart ones to stay out of the blast radius and the debris field, and let Darwin sort the rest of them out.

Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 17:24

Acksiom -

sigh…First, I quoted your comment. Misrepresented is subjective. In any case, I did quickly read through the comments prior to mine, and from that I recall Suzanne saying she “normally lurks” (as do I).

Hence, that is the length of which my situation and Suzanne’s situation are similar. And which prompted to me make my initial comment.

Actually, in my post @3:25 I gave a reason for people to “care” or at the very least provide advice that I was/am currently seeking with respect to MRA on the individual level. Not sure why you wouldn’t “care” about that. But that’s your decision.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 17:51

Going back to Tactics, the hoopla over at the PM/AF-T article suggests an additional method of spreading MGTOW awareness amongst men. Once in a while an author can write intentionally provacative articles like that of PM/AF-T, but really take it to the next level. I am talking Borat / Dick Masterson kind of provacative. We’ve seen today that when angry ladies come in looking for a fight, plenty of male White Knights and just plain old male onlookers follow them in. It’s this latter group which whose eyes can be opened. They just need to stick around, out of morbid fascination if needed, for a little while. They will catch on to what’s going on very quickly. Just a thought.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Whatever October 13, 2009 at 17:53

Just one more post….

I thought writing in the bottom left corner of an ordinary dollar bill a pro-male website would be a good idea. You know, like either a standard NoMarriage website, like no-maam.blogspot.com, or Roissy’s website, roissy.wordpress.com, or this website, http://www.the-spearhead.com, to raise awareness among ordinary people.

but then I looked up whether it was legal or not, and it turns out it is illegal.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_illegal_to_write_on_a_dollar_bill

So don’t do it. It is wrong.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 17:59

So don’t do it. It is wrong.

LOL! Thanks Whatever!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 18:13

Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 5:04 pm
“How exactly did you study the FC law?”
Mr. M. Family Law is not law it is statutes. You do not need to study it because you can refuse the jurisdiction of the Family Court and any statute you do not like. You study Common Law through the vast amount of materials on the web or buy a pack from one of the leaders of our movement like Robert-Arthur: Menard. Robert has also started ‘freedom skewl’ on his youtube channel. If you do this I am happy to fund your ‘education’ in terms of books to buy. It’s only a few hundred dollars. It is the time and commitment that it takes that is the issue.

The ‘legal system’ is one enormous ‘hoax’. It’s really brilliant when you know about it. If you live in a former british colony the common law is the ‘law of the land’ and the guvment statutes are inferior to common law. Eg. In the US the CON-stitution (because it is one bloody great CON to decieve people and strip them of their rights while being presented and ‘giving’ them rights….I have never met an american smart enough to ask ‘Why are there ammendments?’ to really see what the CON-stitution was all about…) So anyone in any former british colony can refuse the jurisdiction of ‘Family Law’ and operate under common law. You can see why the guvment want to keep this secret and regularly lock up anyone who talks about common law.

In the UK there are guys talking about common law on megaphones…….the cops put them in the wagon, drive them down the road a few miles and then let them out again. THAT tells you everything you need to know….LOL!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Lukobe October 13, 2009 at 18:17

It’s not illegal to write on dollar bills — ever heard of Where’s George? Read the link you sent: it says whoever does so *fraudulently*.
(BTW, WikiAnswers is not a good reference source.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 18:21

Guys,
time to introduce you to two of my heros here in the UK. Danny and Charlie of the ‘love police’. These guys are AWESOME. Here they are at Canary Warf taking on the PTB. Now, for those of you who do not know London Canary Warf is the ‘Wall Street’ of London. Indeed, the PTB claim that even the tub station underneath is ‘private property’. If people want to see and example of what can be done? How about grab a megaphone, a video camera, go to busy places and start talking!!! Charlie regularly gets 10,000 views per video now and it is growing.

For your education and entertainment!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYSVCW9ILs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCbOSrU0FmY

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Eman October 13, 2009 at 18:30

Some of you all might like the following article from Taki’s – it remarks on how New York City has been near-ruined by femicentrism: http://www.takimag.com/site/article/goodbye_to_all_that2/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Eman October 13, 2009 at 18:32

“It’s all texting and twittering now, a place of female Woody Allens seeking help.” – http://www.takimag.com/site/article/goodbye_to_all_that2/

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 18:33

Men, it is simple. God says women should shut the f*** up…;-)

1 Timothy 2:12 (New International Version)
12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

Allowing women to be teachers over boys is blaspemy.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 18:36

First, I quoted your comment. Misrepresented is subjective.

No, it’s not. I’ll reprint both comments for you –

Suzanne: Best of luck to the rest of the Spearhead Crew, I’ll continue to lurk.

Acksiom: . . .instead of getting up and doing something tangible that is of actual value to us.

Mr. M: I haven’t done anything tangible for “men” …should I stop reading?

That is not a suggestion that you stop reading here. That’s a suggestion that Suzanne get up and do something tangible that is of actual value to us.

Now, do you understand why that is applicable to Suzanne’s situation, but not yours?

Here’s a hint that may look familiar to you:

“. . .tacitly asking us to change our behavior for no better reason than your own unwillingness to responsibly control your own emotional state, and for even less recompense?”

Hence, that is the length of which my situation and Suzanne’s situation are similar. And which prompted to me make my initial comment.

Just because you both lurk here? That’s it?

You were “prompted” to passive-aggressively misrepresent what I actually said because you identify with her, due in turn to nothing more than how you both lurk here, and in spite of how she was tacitly asking us to change our behavior for no better reason than her own unwillingness to responsibly control her own emotional state, and for even less recompense, i.e. her mere approval, which was the very reason for my response, while you were not doing anything of the kind?

Because if that’s the case, we’ve arrived at an objective conclusion: uh, no. You were wrong. You should not casually identify with people on such flimsy grounds, and particularly not when the reason why they’re getting snapped back to begin with doesn’t apply to you in the first place.

Actually, in my post @3:25 I gave a reason for people to “care” or at the very least provide advice that I was/am currently seeking with respect to MRA on the individual level.

Gee, that’s nice.

It’s not what I actually asked about, though. I actually asked about your disagreement with my comment, specifically: why did you even bring it up in the first place, and so what if you disagree with it; why should anybody care?

We don’t need to be told about why we should care about your request for advice on MRA activism. We can figure that out for ourselves. What I’m still asking is why you bothered to passive-aggressively misrepresent my statement out of disagreement in the first place.

To be explicit; what were your goals? What were you trying to accomplish by whining about something that never actually happened to someone else?

Not sure why you wouldn’t “care” about that. But that’s your decision.

And there you go misrepresenting my statements again. At this point, I’m beginning to think you’re trolling.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 18:38

Give it a rest, guys.

globalman October 13, 2009 at 18:40

Eman October 13, 2009 at 6:32 pm
“It’s all texting and twittering now, a place of female Woody Allens seeking help.” –

AWESOME!!!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 13, 2009 at 18:43

Get my back, zed.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 18:51

Mr. M.
If you would like to educate young men on women today, just give them this link:

http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/forums/forum-30.html
This is MABTW ‘Annecdotal evidence’. It is where we put all the stupid crap that women do and comment on it. No man can spend 10 minutes in this forum and not come to the conclusion that all western women are complete crap now. Really. They are their own worst enemy and MRAs own best advertisement for why men should not marry.

And you might want this thread too….

It is: Marriage: Don’t Do it. In Dick Masterson speech which cannot go for a full sentence without an expletive and I LOVE that..

http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/forums/forum-1.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 18:55

Get my back, zed.

I do a lot of the time, Acksiom. And, I do appreciate your bulldog persistence. But, I think we could cut Mr. M a bit of slack. He’s young, hasn’t been through nearly as many battles in this stupid gender war as you and I have, and probably less than 10% of what was going through his head went into the comment. He’s trying to figure out where he fits into all this, and has been raised entirely in a world where feminism was the dominant paradigm. Simply the fact that he is even aware that there are issues puts him head and shoulders above most guys his age.

We’re making progress, dude. Before the Battle of Forbes, a man could never get away with saying half of what we do here. We don’t need to stay in balls-to-the-wall berserker mode all the time, just when necessary.

Cut him some slack and let him ease into the hot water gradually, eh?

Puma October 13, 2009 at 19:00

Yeah there is a time to fight, and a time to talk. I think fighting amongst our own is particularly counterproductive. Not everyone is going to march to the same beat. That is the whole point of MGTOW – Men Going Their Own Way.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 19:01

… and in Suzanne’s case WGTOW.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 19:05

Zed,
Duuuuuuude. How about a warning on links like that like:
“If you click here wear zaphod beeblebrox glasses because the ugly chick on the other side is gonna scar your retinas man….” FFS!!!

“Probably the best we can hope for is to warn the smart ones to stay out of the blast radius and the debris field, and let Darwin sort the rest of them out.”

Bastard….now I need to clean my laptop keyboard out for the red wine I spat in it from laughing at your comment!!!

I LOVE seeing these article…Thanks dude…!!!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 19:10

Puma October 13, 2009 at 7:01 pm
“and in Suzanne’s case WGTOW”
And in Suzannes case … STFU and MAKE ME A SAMMICH!!!

Really, Puma, she’s useless to men. She is just an attention whore like they all are.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 19:11

Why do I think western women are crap….hhhmm….let me see….

Ugly woman alert…put your zaphod goggles on guys…..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1220095/American-abortion-addict-15-terminations-17-years-publishes-memoir.html

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
OneSTDV October 13, 2009 at 19:20

133 comments?!?!

How did this place take off so incredibly fast?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 13, 2009 at 19:22

Let’s just say we are finally connecting the dots.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Novaseeker October 13, 2009 at 19:22

Think about that, OneSTDV.

This stuff is gaining momentum. It’s clear.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Mr.M October 13, 2009 at 19:32

I wonder how all the people, particularly the dissidents on the Sci-Fi post, find this site…

I would guess the majority of reader-traffic is from the blog-sphere around MRA stuff (and, I would presume, people with views in-line of MRA), but that post seems like a HUGE influx of angry people.

Kind of shocking, really.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 13, 2009 at 19:33

@globalman

And I love seeing your “take no prisoners and shoot the wounded” style. I’ve always believed that if men ever shook off their lethargy and their overdone early toilet training and actually began to fight back that the momentum of the femnasty juggernaut would come to a grinding halt fairly quickly. You remind me of Christopher from Oregon who comments over on MarkyMark’s blog. Both of them have the rhetoric of ridicule down cold, but MM is not as burned out on Western Women as some guys are. Christopher and you are the “firebrands” that every movement needs. I fancy myself as more in the Thomas Paine role. ;)

piercedhead October 13, 2009 at 19:47

“I thought writing in the bottom left corner of an ordinary dollar bill a pro-male website would be a good idea.”

Love it. I’ve just written “Don’t Get Married!” on 6 $10 bills – about to go into circulation any hour now.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
The Fifth Horseman October 13, 2009 at 19:47

Everyone,

As The Spearhead gains momentum, we need to start emailing bloggers who are sympathetic to men’s rights. Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit and his wife, Dr. Helen Smith, come to mind.

Glenn Reynolds’ email address is [email protected]. We all need to persistently email good articles written here, to him. One link from him can result in 10,000 page visits in a day.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Reinholt October 13, 2009 at 20:08

Puma,

Provocative articles, huh?

Maybe it’s time to dust off the old pen and do something for MRA myself.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
globalman October 13, 2009 at 20:34

zed October 13, 2009 at 7:33 pm
“And I love seeing your ‘take no prisoners and shoot the wounded’ style.”
Zed,
I’m a lover not a hater…;-) I don’t like nazis and feminists are the nazi brainwashed drones of the PTB that should be left to their vibrators and cats until they die on a pension barely able to support them only paid by women. ‘Catfood in a caravan’…;-)

But be in no doubt…the ‘bad guys’ are all men. We are making fantastic progress against them. We have discovered how to give men the opportunity to divorce their guvment and wives and refuse the jurisdication of FC and get their assets to switzerland…We are working on docs now….

How man men will take that? Lots…..we are soon to test this in Australia and Ireland…if we are successful (and as papa bush said in his NWO speech ‘and we will be successful’) we will be able to roll it out to the US/Canda/UK.

If I achieve what I have set out to achieve, I will give about 100M men the opportunity to divorce the state and their wife and not get screwed over….I won’t have to buy another drink for the rest of my life!!! I think I will become a drunk!!

Oh yes….we are taking on the PTB….that we f*** up feminised women along the way is merely a bounus…..;-) Really, women are so lacking in intelligence that to put themselves into the middle of affairs of men is suicide. To actually think they are in charge?….Excuse me while I pick myself up of the floor from laughing. Women have not done anything of substance in the entire history of civilisation and they did not start with ‘feminism’.

I remember my little ‘awakening’ to the Illuminati amid the abuse handed me by women early last year….it was like “you women think you should abuse me? Are you crazy? Making enemies of men is really stupid.” As soon as I realised that women were purposely making enemies of men I realised that somewhere or other men had to be in charge. I never met a woman intelligent enough to organise a f*** in a brothel. How could they organise a political movement? As soon as I realised that ‘someone’ was behind the abuse of FC I realised it must be men. Western women are crap now. The only skill they have is producing babies. Powerful men are always trying to oppress less powerful men….I used that hypothesis which has been true for at least 6.000 years to find out who was responsible for FC corruption and feminism…not hard to find who the bad guys are when searched for that way.

I’ve been working on this for about 15 months now……and now we really, truely, have them by the balls. We just need men with enough balls to sit on juries. By 2012 feminism will cease to be an issue…..but trans-humanism will not. Feminism is a ‘side-show’.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
whiskey October 13, 2009 at 21:52

This is not any gender’s “fault.” Contraception, anonymous urban living, and improved living standards for women were bound to create huge winners for most women, a few Alpha men, and losers for most men. Simple as that.

What is needed I think is a new attitude. The nuclear family is dead. Feminism did not IMHO kill it because it was not powerful enough, feminists made things worse at the margins, but nothing like the nuclear impact of contraception and careers for women.

Do women need/want a provider? No. Do women need/want a husband? No. Do women need/want Joe Average? No. Women need/want stimulation, excitement, dominance, thrills, and chills. Because women paying their own way want what they want.

So Joe Average ought to give that to them. Joe Average ought to forget marrying, or staying with one woman. Indeed, romancing multiple women at the same time simply makes him more desirable. Because other women want him, and validate his worthiness. Instead of being a work-a-day family man, Joe Average should buy a Harley, or a street racer, do risky/dangerous things to signal high testosterone risk preference, be in shape, learn Game, try as hard as possible for fame, and in general act like a D-List Celebrity.

This is clearly what women want, and men should give them exactly what they want. Let women raise kids on their own. Women constantly create commercials with messages that they don’t need doofus Dad. Women say they can do anything on their own, so let them. Every young man should be advised to have as many kids as possible with as many women as possible while providing for none of them. By competing to be as dominant and exciting as he can be.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Girm October 14, 2009 at 00:04

Whiskey,
Women are going to have all the excitement they can handle as we release most of the 2.3 million men behind bars in the next few years (budget cuts are a bitch). We would be better off telling men to learn how to shoot and stock up on ammo. The future for our odd dystopia is not bright and it’s headed for an epic flaming crash.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Men's Rhetorical Advocate October 14, 2009 at 10:15

It’s been many years since i’ve argued with brainwashed feminists about their paper-thin delusions. But I assure you all, it is shockingly easy. Of course, most of them will revert back to femzombie state in a couple of hours but you usually get the satisfaction of a moment or two of lucidity, however fleeting.

My all-time record is getting a college communications professor and self-professed “matriarch” to confess that most of her arguments were flawed, in less than half an hour.

This article is inspiring me to strap back on the jackboots and get back to work.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Obsidian October 14, 2009 at 11:36

With regard to Suzanne,
I have an even better suggestion, and one which will not require you to lobby Congress or get any laws changed:

When next you are hanging out with your girlfriends, and one of them is acting like a stompdown jerk to a nice guy, CALL HER ON IT RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

Just about every Woman has seen this happen and yet they rationalize it away, usually in “he shoulda taken the hint” terms. Unacceptable. If ladies wish to be treated as ladies, they should ACT like them-and that can’t come from the fellas. It has to come from others ladies, like YOU.

Here’s another: when next you see a girlfriend or coworker looking more lik a hooker than a lady, CALL HER ON IT IMMEDIATELY. Let her know that not only is she making things for herself worse by lowering her value, but she’s also making it bad for you and other single Women who want to meet good guys, too; let her know that if she doesn’t change, you’re gonna have to find some new friends.

One more…

Take an active interest in mentoring the younger gals in the realities of life. Let them know, that they will not always be young and supple, and that the nice quiet boy in class, while not necessarily the hottest thing sliced bread, will be a better bet in the longrun than the captain of the football team. Be vociferous about it. Warn them of what can and will happen if they don’t take heed.

These are only a few of the many simple things you and other Women can do, Suzanne. And they will help both Men and Women.

The Obsidian

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Globalman October 14, 2009 at 13:09

Puma October 13, 2009 at 1:34 pm
“I love that quote. Suzanne gets +1.”

Puma, you just marked yourself as a theta mangina. Not a good move.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Globalman October 14, 2009 at 13:14

whiskey October 13, 2009 at 9:52 pm
This is not any gender’s “fault.”
Whiskey, actually it is. The people who have precipitated this chaos are ALL men. They are just using women. Women are too stupid to do anything complicated. That is why we must address the real enemy. Powerful men. We can safely ignore the women and the manginas.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
julie October 14, 2009 at 14:42

I read every single comment on this thread. That’s a first for me to read so many and IMO it shows just how interesting you men ARE. I don’t want to start commenting on your wonderful site because I already have a number of men’s sites I frequently visit and comment on.

But I thought I would just give MY view on this one terrific thread and then, well, just keep up the excellent way you guys do life. It is fantastic and empowering knowing the truth about the world we live in and lots of Uni students are already using all of you for their assignments which is upsetting the education boards. (I know because I read their words as an adult student)

Anyways, I just want to tell you about my small continent (island) New Zealand.

It was 6 women who made feminism (1970′s) in New Zealand and I all 6 or the majority of this 6 are lesbians. No, I am not biased but I make this point because they have different needs to heterosexual women and see men as competition rather than a mate.

And so these women did their thing with the help of a communist lecturer. His daughter cleared his name only in the last year or 2 as a traitor but it was already too late because feminists were already trained, writing books, ect and society let them because of the ‘girl power movement’ which was by consensus of the psychologists at the time of making it a bad move because the majority wanted a movement to empower both male and female.

Anyways continuing on, … these women got a break through a man who wanted to challenge a doctor and so began a smear campaign on his work with vaginal cancer. You have to remember that WWII was still fresh in people’s minds and that medical experiments occurred during this war which had empowered the medical field.

This doctor was accused of doing experiments on women without their permission and was accused of not telling them what they had and by doing this he was accused of murdering women.

This was a major scandal in a small country and women everywhere were afraid and upset. The feminists were now someone to take note off. But on this very year the history department of the university has released a book showing this was all one big fat lie. Yet, women as well as men collectively at the time protested, work to enter politics, became doctors themselves and more all in the name of ‘women are not disposable’. Women have never been seen as disposable for the fact they bear children and society forever has lived this way which meant all this is just how it has always been.

Men don’t collectively get anywhere because society for ever has considered them disposable. Our whole history evolves around this as well as other things.

But here, right now, on this thread, and by every word you men say and by every action you men do …. you make the statement that men are NOT disposable, that men matter.

IMHO opinion that is your answer. You don’t know how much you already are activists and advocates and how you are already are attending the gender war. IMO.

MEN ARE NOT DISPOSABLE. End of story. That’s the message I hear over and over again.

Be you, you’re beautiful. Thank you so much for all the wonderful things you have done for me as a collective.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 14, 2009 at 15:37

Hi Julie. Thanks for your comments. I’ve spent some time in NZ and met quite a few very cool Kiwi women. With such a small population (relative to the size of the US or UK, for example) it did seem that feminism had a whole lot of impact on your culture in a short time.

mjaybee October 14, 2009 at 15:59

@Julie

Thanks for your positive comments. Men and women are all connected through our families, etc. It’s nice to see a positive comment from a woman on this blog.

I hope some of the more divisive posts diminish in the future as more common ground is sought after and recognized by both male and female readers/posters.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
julie October 14, 2009 at 17:35

@ Zed,

***”Hi Julie. Thanks for your comments. I’ve spent some time in NZ and met quite a few very cool Kiwi women. “***

For sure. If I was to visit your country I would say the same. A visitor is a customer. lol

Y’know, I did target this thread as game from a female. I have heard from at least one man who I think the world of as an MRA (fidelbogen) in this, that you are special. I am soooo pleased to see how down to earth you are. Ok, so down to earth is debatable. If men seriously wanted to, they would destroy women in a heart beat. So thanks for being sensible.

When I first started in this, women’s groups pushed me to continue and at first they said, “You are so lucky that men will talk to you, ..ask them why men bash women”.

My first words were, “What? Is this a joke?”

Now, I am screwed. I want to tell every single woman’s group outside of feminism and every church and every school teacher and family group what is going on but I can’t because I know that if the bigger monkey says, “Enough is enough” women are screwed.

I must be in the company of millions of people who have figured it out but are powerless because this gender war is “power to women through legislation and policy” or “power to men because they are the bigger monkey”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
julie October 14, 2009 at 18:21

You don’t have an answer do you Zed?

I am not angry that you don’t. Lots and lots of fields that work in the gender war complain that they can’t find an answer either.

I guess the old school feminists are right. You just have to ride it through. Truth has never been a factor.

Anyhoo, please don’t stop telling men and women their is a problem.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 14, 2009 at 18:24

You don’t have an answer do you Zed?

I must have missed the question, Julie. Answer to what?

julie October 14, 2009 at 19:05

@Zed,
****
Julies says, ” You don’t have an answer do you Zed?”

Zed says, ” I must have missed the question, Julie. Answer to what?”****

Oh, gosh. I hadn’t expected your remark to be what it was. I hope you don’t mind me if I don’t answer straight away but ask a few others what the exact question is and discuss it before I answer.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
julie October 14, 2009 at 20:02

Hi again Zed, I will be honest with you and say I am not going to ask you questions from me or any women’s collective. I’d love your help in this but I don’t think you can help just by the mere fact you don’t beleive in men as a collective.

I phoned my pharmacy only moments ago and said the the owner, “Dale, how come you don’t have any male staff?” He said in reply “Because 70% of the graduates are female”.

We are way past saying, “Men are doing something and women are the enemy”.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Acksiom October 14, 2009 at 20:05

Zed, I think she was asking if you had a solution, and now she’s working on better defining the problem.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 14, 2009 at 20:11

That’s always a good first step.

dagezhu October 15, 2009 at 00:58

‘This is where the masters of Game have a real advantage. They know how to go for the throat, how to undermine, and how to do it with a light touch so that objections can be dismissed as being thin-skinned, or having no sense of humor, or taking themselves too seriously.’

Maybe this will work.

‘Ridicule is one of the most effective means possible of applying social pressure. When the consequences of actions or attitudes shift from encouragement to censure, that is a change in the underlying conditions.’

This is dead wrong, especially on the Internet.

Ridicule – or other pressure – works only when you have somebody who needs your approval. If somebody *needs* me to fix his car and can’t get another mechanic – then I can use ridicule, because I can back it up.

Similarly, if my boss ridicules me and I need the job, I feel the heat. If my boss ridicules me and I don’t need the job, I walk out and mail my resignation to my boss’ boss.

On the Internet, ridicule tends to radicalize opponents. It will tighten the ranks of those who need this place, but it will not exert any pressure on those who don’t need it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
dagezhu October 15, 2009 at 01:10

Mr. M: ‘Misrepresented is subjective’

In fact, the practice of debating works only when opponents have common ground.

Unfortunately, the tradition on the Internet is to pig-headedly refuse to find common ground, but to insist that the resulting flamewar is a debate, and that one’s opponent is losing.

I personally think Internet folks are too diverse to successfully debate as neighborhood people can debate in the flesh. Common ground is much, much harder to find on the Internet.

Frequently communication is impaired from the start, and once people start flaming, communication degenerates, killing the chance of finding common ground.

I think many people who paraphrase each other on the Internet *do* misrepresent each other … and many more aren’t really listening to each other, so they don’t paraphrase, but communication still dies.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
julie October 15, 2009 at 01:56

Acksiom and Zed,

Thank-you very much for saying what you did to each other about me.

I don’t want you to waste your time on MY journey in this but I do have to apologise because I lied to you when I said, “I am screwed”.

I am not, ‘Screwed’ because men haven’t changed yet into the horrible people feminists are forcing them to become by their actions. There is still a small window of time for us to get it right and I do and will and can give lots of information to refuges and lots of women’s groups and teachers and government workers and so on. And TBH, I AM one extremely lucky female that you talk to me the way you do. Sometimes, I can’t believe it but just for the fact you give me a chance, I will do my best to rectify this.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 15, 2009 at 06:24

I don’t want you to waste your time on MY journey in this but I do have to apologise because I lied to you when I said, “I am screwed”.

I am not, ‘Screwed’ because men haven’t changed yet into the horrible people feminists are forcing them to become by their actions.

julie, this is everyone’s journey. The current attitudes of suspicion, distrust, and animosity between the sexes isn’t benefitting anyone, and is leaving a lot of people unhappy and confused.

Yes, men are sick to death of having women attack them. But, I still don’t see men ever generally turning against women and wreaking some sort of vengeance on them. Instead I see more of a generalized withdrawal and turning away, like is happening in Japan now with the phenomenon of the Grass Eaters –
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/japans-generation-xx-1704155.html

When I was in NZ 10 years ago it seemed to me that marriage was already dead there. I met very few married people, and I don’t think I heard the words “husband” or “wife” even once. They seem to have been replaced by the more generic “partner.” One of my Kiwi friends is a single mum who has been divorced for about 18 years and has had a long series of short term relationships to fill the gap. That seemed to be common pattern in what I saw. I had to go to a doctor while I was there because I caught the NZ strain of strep throat which I didn’t have much immunity to and it really laid me low. He was from the US and had lived there almost 30 years, and wasn’t married but had a “partner.” Another single mum I met had also had a string of short term relationships since her marriage broke up and was currently seeing a man who liked her, but absolutely did not want to get married. She liked being sexually intimate with him and wanted it to continue, so in order to deal with his sense of unease that they were on some sort of marriage track they came down to agreeing that he would pay her for sex. It sounds very odd, and really was not the normal sort of cash for sex transaction that most people imagine. It was a way of letting him off the hook emotionally from feeling like he owed her something for the sex that he didn’t want to give. Paying her was a way they worked out to allow him to stick around and not have to break up with her because he didn’t want the relationship to go where he thought she wanted it to go.

I wasn’t sure what point you were making about 70% of graduates being women, but if it was about boys dropping off the achievement track, that is certainly happening. What is the point of achieving anything or making a good living if the courts are simply going to confiscate it for child support? One of my friends down there is in the strangest situation I can imagine. He is paying child support to his ex-wife for their 3 children, plus to another woman he had a relationship with who got pregnant, plus to a married woman that he had an affair with, and her husband.

Traditonal roles for relationships have been scrambled for both sexes over the past few decades, and everyone now is feeling their way through uncharted territory. It doesn’t seem to be working out for anyone.

I AM one extremely lucky female that you talk to me the way you do.

Not really true, julie. There isn’t any “luck” really involved. Most of us will talk quite congenially and rationally to any woman who does not come in on the attack.

I think what would make most men quite happy is to be able to have good, mutually-satisfying, relationships with women. In the absence of that, a lot of us would settle for just having them stop attacking us 7x24x365.

You seem to be concerned about the same things, so we are clearly on the same side regardless of our sex.

julie October 15, 2009 at 14:53

Hi Zed, it is easy to see why you are well liked in this movement. Thanks for the comment. It was good and I like hearing other people’s views.

I am somewhat concerned about the same things and thus on the same side but I see things from a broader perspective and more intimately with other cultures so there are some things I can’t take so black and white.

But I have been told by the main University in New Zealand that men are the focus of research now (globally) and will be for the next decade. Much research takes 3-4 years on average before it becomes mainstream so we will all be seeing a lot of energy focused on men and men’s issues very soon.

It is such good timing, IMHO.

In the absence of that, a lot of us would settle for just having them stop attacking us 7×24×365.

I can certainly hep with that. :D

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Polprav October 15, 2009 at 18:17

Hello from Russia!
Can I quote a post in your blog with the link to you?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 15, 2009 at 18:27

I am somewhat concerned about the same things and thus on the same side but I see things from a broader perspective and more intimately with other cultures so there are some things I can’t take so black and white.

What does this mean? What broader perspective? What black and white?

julie October 16, 2009 at 02:09

What does this mean? What broader perspective? What black and white?

I don’t seem to explain myself well and I don’t mean this in a negative way.

I am somewhat concerned about the same things and thus on the same side

Well, it means I have a hard time making a choice between the two sides. Y’know how they say 10% are far left and 10% are far right and that 80% of the voters swing one way or the other depending on the issue?; Well, that is what I am like.

I see things from a broader perspective and more intimately with other cultures so there are some things I can’t take so black and white.

I run a single parent trust in NZ and that is what initially brought me into this (looking for support for men in our group). I contacted women’s groups and spoke with feminists when I was learning about men’s plight from men online. I had to ask the women what was going on and ended up angry when I finally understood because I also contacted men’s groups and talked to many other organisations. Men really have it hard and it IS because of feminists. Some leaders in social things say it is because men don’t get organised and I think to a small degree that is true but men have been trying for decades to assist other men only to be denied any recognition, network connections and funding, because feminists say men are potential rapists and perpetrators and can’t be trusted. They can only do things feminists approve of under their ideology. (I am sure you know all this)

I would have been happy to work with that. It would have been black and white to me.

But I also found that there is 2 sides, not so much on men and women but on ideologies. I seriously never knew that.

NZ has the highest number in the world of single parents per capita and we even get Iraqis entering the country as refugees where a single grandmother parent is raising her grandchildren because her sons died fighting in the war and the daughter in law took off. These women can’t even speak the language. This not only makes me angry at war but I really think they should be helped.

And we sometimes get Iraqi wives exiting the plane at one end and the Iraqi husbands exiting the other end. We get Africans and Indians and all sorts. Just for the fact someone has to take care of these women, they get financial assistance from the government. That is social welfare.

We have third world islands in the pacific who have a culture where wives are more violent than the husbands. We have no men’s refuges in NZ but we do have something on the sly for these cultures that is all hush hush. Their culture doesn’t follow feminist ideology and even though feminists know this goes on, they stand by their ideology. I don’t like feminist ideology because it is false.

And yet I am not against males and females having sex before marriage. And I am still unsure how I feel about abortions and pro life religious groups.
……….

I just find it difficult to see things black and white because I do consider the personal the political. (since the culture I grew up in IS ‘the personal is the political’)… I tend to agree with some things on one side and some things on the other side. I think programs are a good idea but I think New Zealanders should come first and that New Zealand should have it’s own identity. You seem to have to make a choice between the 2 and then you have to follow everything else that goes with that choice.

It’s a lonely place not taking a side but I have to follow what I beleive in. What fits for me. And none of this is black and white to me.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
piercedhead October 16, 2009 at 05:33

Julie,

You appear to have a high estimation of your own background. There’s no harm in that – some would call it confidence – but you can’t expect others to share it. They may have higher opinions of their own. But to claim you have a broader perspective because of something that can only be self-evident to you immediately makes you sound foolish as well as condescending.

As for the rest of what you said, it doesn’t so much come across as you being neutral, or able to see the many shades of gray between black and whites, but that you seem unable to commit yourself to sentences with meaning. It almost reminds me of that artistic exercise of free association where all attempt at being coherent is abandoned in the hope that something original and uncontrived might find expression. There are glimmers of promise, but if the nuance is there it is too fine for me. I can’t tell if you are trying to say anything worthwhile, or if you are talking out of your bottom.

Would it be asking too much if you tried a little harder to clarify what it is you are saying, and not assume we already know most of it?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
julie October 16, 2009 at 05:54

@piercedhead,

To be honest with you, I am wishing I never made a comment here. A bit late for that but if I can get away in one piece I would be very happy.

This is a site for men to discuss things that are pertinent to them and I don’t have any reason to be here. I just wanted to know what Zed was about and left one comment that turned into 2 and then 3 because I was online collecting information for an assignment and got bored.

I don’t think I am anywhere near the intelligence of online men and I am extremely uncomfortable being a female amongst men that I don’t know personally in the MRM. I don’t want to challenge any of you and I don’t want to be targeted by any of you.

But I wish you all the success in the world a whatever you do in life. :D

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
zed October 16, 2009 at 08:09

@julie,

Thanks for your explanation. Your initial statements were a bit broad and vague, so it is always better to ask for clarification than to guess and assume.

Your descriptions fit perfectly with my observations while I was there. NZ was a complete culture shock for me. In many respects it was probably worse than going to a completely foreign culture to me because the surface similarities to US culture, including speaking almost the same language, masked deep and profound differences.

NZ has the highest number in the world of single parents per capita

That was what I was saying with the comment that marriage was dead in NZ. It also looked to me like it had one of the most extensive social welfare systems. One of the people I met worked for something called “Relationship Services.” From what I saw, a government-run office to teach people how to have relationships was probably needed.

What I think is most interesting about NZ is that its small size and relative isolation make it a real laboratory for what happens when feminism completely takes over a culture. For a social change to have the same relative impact in the US that it does in NZ it has to affect 75 Americans for every 1 Kiwi.

It probably is best that you don’t comment much here. This site would not exist if men did not feel a significant need to get their issues aired. And, unfortunately, and lot of men have been so burned by the system that they do see women as the enemy. Even sincerely held beliefs on your part – like ‘the personal is the political’ – will spark a lot of resistance and the wish to prove to you some of the very real problems that can cause. The converse of that, of course, is that the political is personal, and someone who has suffered from the political system is therefore justified in taking it out personally on a member of the group he or she perceives as causing the suffering.

I’m a firm believer that water seeks its own level, and that interventions by governments, no matter how well meaning or vigorously pursued, will have less effect on the behavior of populations than people think or hope they will. We are living through a period of vast social change, and when the dust settles the culture and society that is left will look very different than the one we have now. Life will probably be better for some, worse for others. Then the ones who have it worse will initiate a new cycle of change.

julie October 16, 2009 at 16:03

Zed, wow! Your comment is wonderful. Not only did you somehow connect to what I had written and somehow understood me but you see NZ the same way I do.

It has been a wonderful experience communicating with you. I like very much what you have to say. I also like that you have taken the effort to know New Zealand. I am pretty sure you have a much broader outlook that I do but at least I am starting.

All the best of wishes to you and your work.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
Puma October 19, 2009 at 15:13

Bad Boys like ZED get all the chicks. :-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
ghostnation April 2, 2010 at 14:08

I have come back form a holiday from MRA because I could not deal with the negativity. Some of this time was spent learning Game and comming to the same conclusions.

It would be great fun to run hard core Mystery Method on feminists. The theory apeals to me but I have never run it on the decent women I meet now (I did not meet these women prior to game of course).

Feminists deserve Mystery Method- hard core negging and so on. I would have no qualms about this. Anyone in the London area who would like to try it?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0
fmz February 26, 2011 at 23:51

Fair enough l guess. For mine, that type of reciprocal engagement with them on their terms is a distraction from going my own way, it feeds them the attention they crave and sends them the message that l care. l’m in my mid 40s and l used to do all that stuff (logical/rational discussion, then psych-babble games, then emotionally flipping their script back on them) for prolly 10yrs up until my late 30s. They farking thrive on it. Its fuel to them. It gets no where. It wastes positive energy. They know it too. That’s their whole modus.

If l need to convince them, then that sends a message to them that l’m already defeated. l don’t have anything. So l have determined, for myself, that l dont need permission. Nor understanding. NO THING from them. They is and are anyone and everyone who thinks they have some authority or power over me. That try to get me operating from that position. Its a massive ruse and it underpins the entire operation of the socio-cultural order.

Quite by accident l stumbled upon femmy kryptonite… ignorance and abandonment. What really sends them scrambling and showing their true colours, is to stop giving a fark. Leaving them to shovel their own gravel. They go thru all sorts of mental bullshiat to try and get me back on plantation, but its so tediously predictable and impotent, they just end up digging themselves in deeper. MUCH deeper.

l say, give them exactly what they say the want from us… make like a bike and ride off into the sunset, without them. Plug them in on my terms when it suits me. Same goes for utterly everything about society and its self serving cultural schtick.

An incredibly effective device it to get up and leave when they start their shit. Say nothing. Just vote with the feet. The look of utter shock is off the scale. The howls, the protests, the desperate clinging, the pleading. l don’t care for any of that. Its their game.

GO YOUR WAY. Don’t ask permission. Don’t negotiate. Don’t beg. Don’t ask for forgiveness. Do not get on their whole DONT level. Never apologise. There is not a thing to apologise for.

It used to pain me much initially. Little by little it pains me less and less. Another few yrs and l will be comfortably numb to such nonsense about nothing.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

Leave a Comment

{ 1 trackback }

Previous post:

Next post: