This post by Anakin over at Biblical Manhood got me to thinking (while on the road last week with no radio, no AC in my truck, and lots of time to kill) about what it means to be a “real man” and complementarily, a “real woman”. Anakin correctly notes that
“real man” talk has been used by people to shame men into compliance with social norms.
However, I differ with my friend Anakin’s conclusion that such pressuring behavior is inappropriate and/or illegitimate. Anakin may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by completely dismissing the utility of shaming/conforming language in helping a man stay on the correct path. For true masculinity, as created by God, harnesses in a constructive manner the generative power given by Yahweh to the male sex alone. The male sex is the one given the power, the strength, the drive, and the daring to create and explore and conquer and to build. But this same power may be used for evil as well as good, and the society that directs this generative energy in a productive direction is one that prospers, while societies that fail to do so fail to thrive. This is why norming/shaming language is useful in that it sets the boundaries for appropriate and constructive behavior from men. It is not the language that is the problem, but it may be the utterer, if that utterer is using realmannspracht as a put-down or appealing to an illegitimate standard.
Men often bristle when it is women, particularly feminists, who use realmannspracht. And for good reason, too: those who covet boorish frat-boy behavior for themselves are patently unable to legitimately critique what it means to be a full-fledged man. This is because they are attempting to take something which isn’t theirs and aren’t eligible for, possess it, and then pervert it into a abomination to serve to their own ends.
Yet that is not to say that one must be a masculist, or even male, to render a thoughtful critique on appropriate masculine behavior. Indeed, there are some women, even self-described feminists, who are able to legitimately offer a substantive evaluation of what a fully masculine male does and is. All depends on their qualifications and their motivations for offering a critique. Do they offer it constructively, with an eye toward promoting the greater good? Or do they criticize with intent to destroy or delegitimize, so as to set up a pretext to assimilate masculine behaviors into feminine or neutral spaces?
I quote an example of thoughtfully offered commentary on masculinity below, for it complements quite nicely precisely what Anakin had to say regarding realmannspracht:
“A woman simply is, but a man must become. Masculinity is risky and elusive. It is achieved by a revolt from woman, and it is confirmed only by other men. Manhood coerced into sensitivity is no manhood at all.”
For those who don’t immediately recognize the source of the quote, it is from one Camille Paglia, a feminist and a self-professed lesbian. While Paglia’s quote isn’t realmannspracht per se, offered as it was in a spirit of constructive description, it does serve as an auxiliary to realmannspracht in that it miscasts where masculinity comes from and how it is achieved.
For starters, Paglia’s quote above does get it partly right in that, yes, masculinity must be risky. It must weigh and accept risk when appropriate. To stifle a man’s risk-taking nature, this tendency to take calculated risks when the benefits appear to outweigh the costs, the imperative for men to stand on principles when the pragmatic path is so much more attractive, is to squelch part of what it means to be a man.
But Paglia errs in claiming that masculinity may only be conferred by other men. This is where Anakin correctly skewers the notion that manhood is awarded by the brotherhood to a prospective man. As Anakin said in his above-linked post, the only standard that matters is that of God’s, and worldly attempts to twist these standards into something different from what God intended, or to attempt to make Man’s standards supersede that of God’s, are completely improper. Even if it is other men who are doing it.
I think Paglia also errs in stating that masculinity may only be achieved by revolting from the feminine. Perhaps in using this metaphor she is referring to boys separating from their mothers and gravitating toward their fathers; if this is the case, the metaphor is imperfect. For boys, in real life and in intact families, do not separate from their mothers and gravitate toward their fathers. This separation from mother only occurs in stunted female-only families. Instead, in a properly formed nuclear family, boys cleave from both their parents to become his own man, a separate being that, while still under the tutelage of his father and/or the brotherhood of men, is not psychologically dependent upon them. In any case, by stating that boys separate from women implies that the feminine is humanity’s “base case”, Paglia’s quote teaches that the female is normal, the standard, and the male is abnormal. In essence, Paglia provides psychological cover to inappropriate feminine realmannspracht, as the notion that the masculine comes from or, if you will, out of, the feminine, nominates women as the arbiter of masculine behavior.
Which brings me next to Paglia’s claim that a woman simply “is”. For certain there was a short time in our recent history where this was true. During this time, a woman need do nothing except consume oxygen, breed, be chaste, do as she was told, and behave decorously. She was a “lady”, surrounded by “gentlemen” in a patriarchal framework that served to insulate society from both roguish nature of unrestrained male and female sexuality. But this time does not exist any longer, as that social infrastructure that protected women and society from the fallen nature of humanity–patriarchy–has been torn down. In particular, standards of ladylike behavior were quickly discarded, with no follow-up conception of feminine behavior created in its place, leaving woman without a point of reference to define socially constructive behavior.
So Paglia is largely correct in her assertion that women “are”. Today, women simply “be”, with no training in how to be a “woman”, let alone a “lady”, with no lanes in the road to steer them in the direction of socially productive behavior. In the absence of patriarchy, this “being” is a recipe for disaster. We need only to look around us to seize upon the folly of fully half of our society simply existing: a sex that is literally out of control, resulting in rising rates of illegitimacy, divorce, shacking up, crime, squalor, poverty, and illiteracy, and lowering rates of productivity and sub-replacement fertility. In other words, our civilization is devolving right before our very eyes.
So what to do? Well, I think the early feminists were correct in that the model of femininity in the 1800s and early 1900s was incomplete and were right to rebel against it. Women were limited in the “ladylike” role of the Victorian era, improperly so in my opinion, and although the early feminists didn’t come out and say it in so many words, it was and is insufficient for women to simply “be”. They must become as well, the same as men must become. Thus we would do well to re-institute a vision, a model for womanhood that includes a parallel matriculation process for girls that ends with an induction into the sorority of women, just as boys matriculate into the brotherhood of men.
In some ways, this induction into the ranks of full-fledged women happens already, via the socially unconstructive rite of unwed teen motherhood. This phenomenon may be viewed as girls vaulting themselves into the ranks of full-fledged femininity, much in the same way that boys join gangs in a misguided bid to gain acceptance into the brotherhood of the masculine. Needless to say, neither is appropriate, and neither is useful for propagating or sustaining a society.
At the risk of being accused of realfrauspracht, I submit the following traits for consideration of socially constructive behaviors for modern women, in no particular order:
* Integrity
* Chaste until marriage, faithful within marriage
* Industrious / hard working
* Disciplined
* Charitable
* Accountable / responsible
* Self-controlled
* Modest in dress and behavior
* Selfless
Looking back at this list, these qualities strike me as the same as those that would be ideal for men to exhibit. Perhaps this is no mistake, in that it is folly to have one sex act in a manner congruent with civilization while the other gives itself over to promiscuous dissipation and indulgent selfishness.
Thus, I propose that todays women grab a hold of today’s girls, train them to value integrity above all else, to be good wives to one man, to be good mothers if they are called to be so, and to be productive citizens both in the workplace and in society as a whole.






{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
“Thus, I propose that todays women grab a hold of today’s girls, train them to value integrity above all else, to be good wives to one man, to be good mothers if they are called to be so, and to be productive citizens both in the workplace and in society as a whole.”
Hmm…
How bout we import women from other parts of the globe to do the jobs American women won’t do?
Can a cougar talk about integrity?
I’m not sure the word integrity has ever been used in Cosmo or episodes of Sex and the City.
Ok I kid, sort of, plenty of women out their that haven’t been completely corrupted.
I am pretty pessimistic about it being taught though.
Great contribution EW.
BTW, no air conditioning in your truck in Louisiana?
I hop thats on the to do list by next summer.
That guy in the picture is a realmannspract all right. I mean, check out that Marilyn Monroe clone sitting on his lap
EW,
You left the “h” out of the spracht in the title.
Anyway, a thoughtful post, indeed. I never denied the necessity of upbraiding, disciplining, correcting, and censuring a wayward man. In my most recent post, I said:
“If we want men, but especially young men, to be mature, then let’s do it by speaking according to the truth, not by resorting to playground insults and acting like children ourselves.”
I believe the feminists, the woman-firsters, socons, and others who want men to be Stoic fall guys/doormats have thoroughly abused the “real men” concept and are using as it a weapon against men’s worth and self-identity. I think if someone wants to state their preferences (and usually, that’s exactly what it is–preferences) about how I should act, I think they can do it without acting as if they can revoke my humanity as it is expressed in being male.
“How bout we import women from other parts of the globe to do the jobs American women won’t do?”
Maybe it’s cuz we don’t pay them enough? /sarc
“BTW, no air conditioning in your truck in Louisiana?”
Yeah, it was pretty hot driving home from work for lunch today. And it was only mid-80s. Getting the AC fixed is pretty high on the list, prolly right behind getting the leaf springs done.
@Puma,
I chose that picture because I thought it correctly lampooned the gross exaggerations of what it means to be male. The fact that it was on the cover of a 50s vintage lad mag called “real men” sealed it for me.
” I never denied the necessity of upbraiding, disciplining, correcting, and censuring a wayward man.”
I stand corrected, thanks Anakin. I didn’t see this post before I wrote my critique.
Anakin may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by completely dismissing the utility of shaming/conforming language in helping a man stay on the correct path.
Anakin has already answered this, but I take a hard line against shaming language in the way that you describe, EW. In principle, shaming language could be used in the way you describe here, but I have never seen shaming language used that way in my 31 years of life. Shaming language has always been used either as manipulation or for those who have deluded themselves into thinking they’re correcting a wayward man, it’s in direct opposition to good judgement.
All this talk about defining a “real man” (TM) leaves out something important, objective standards studied for correctness through empirical analysis. So much realmannspracht is defined based on women’s choices (i.e. if a woman marries you for socons or if a woman has sex with you for guys on the other end). This like so many other definitions of a “real man” (TM) fail all objectivity since they’re dependent on women.
Why is it that living an independent life is never realmannspracht? Or invention for that matter? It’s because they can’t be used as manipulation.
I had to deal a lot with of realmannspracht during the housing bubble since I refused to buy a house. This is an example of how realmannspracht is often in direct opposition to good judgement. I understood what was going on and am able to plan for the future. For that I wasn’t a “real man” (TM). I knew a guy who got married a few years ago and subsequently bought a house at the top of the bubble, in part because that’s what “real men” (TM) do. He’s now divorced and has this albatross of a house around his neck that he can’t sell that’s in the middle of nowhere (because they couldn’t afford anyplace else). Realmannspracht has served him well. :rolls eyes:
Several years ago, I was watching Friends and there was this thing where Ross was saying something about investing some money he got. Joey started making fun of him for being a wimp (i.e. realmannspracht was going on there). Ross then says, “I know. Let’s go to Vegas and loose all our money like real men.”
Frankly, it’s getting to the point that whenever I hear someone using shaming language against myself (or against a group of men in general) regardless of whatever circumstances there may be, I get my gun (metaphorically speaking).
‘My mother’s shaming language? Let me tell you about my mother’s shaming language.’
realmannspracht is often in direct opposition to good judgement.
It is all purely manipulative, even when used with sincere intent. Yes, it used to be an effective means of social control, but only when used sparingly and appropriately. It’s edge and effectiveness have been blunted from overuse.
These days I just laugh in the face of anyone trying to use it on me, and comment that (sigh) I have just had to get used to being an UN-RealMan (TM), and on those days when I am at the top of my form, a SUR-RealMan. The surest way to complete destroy someone’s credibility with me is to utter the word “RealMan”(TM). From that point onward I just tune them out.
There have been times in the past when cultures went insane. The Nuremburg trials were mostly of people who had been “RealMan”ed into behaving in inhuman, diabolical ways. I can easily imagine Jim Jones telling his followers “Well, if you were a REALMAN(TM) you would drink the Kool-Aid and cause your wife and children to drink it too.”
For good or ill, a man has to be the final authority on whether he will listen to or cave in to social pressure.
Good article! It’s what I’ve come to expect after reading your blog.
I have no problem leaving off “shaming” words–I use them seldom, if at all–as long as the male half of the population uses their masculine liberty to be responsible and godly (men for Christ, not merely chickified dudes who are homeboys with Jesus), to pursue what’s right rather than “what I want”.
It’s too bad that so many guys are throwing off the shackles of feminism to become exactly what feminists said they would be: cads and users. I despise feminism, and hate to see its priestesses being given ammo.
Incorrect.
Men are throwing off the shackles to become independent, to become whatever they wish; the social contract is dead.
The precise point at which men have no say over the behavior of females is the point at which females have no say over the behavior of men. Reciprocity is a two-way street.
Something that stood out to me.
Is it only women who must be chaste, not men as well? And why is modesty always associated with females? The last question is something that I’ve mulled over for a while.
@Mrs. Pilgrim, thanks!
@Renee,
Some patriarchy theorists would say that chastity and fidelity only applies to women, on the grounds that female infidelity and unchastity is more disruptive of the social fabric than male infidelity/unchastity.
I don’t see how the female variety is any less pernicious than the male one, so I don’t buy it. Besides, the Man sez that both sexes shall be chaste until marriage and faithful during, so it’s really kind of a moot point for me.
Modesty is classically associated with females I think because it is the easiest to see/grade (“are those boobs checked baggage or carry-on?”) and was a big staple of Victorian morality.
Male modesty has to do with not being flamboyant or in-your-face about his means/power/wealth…in other words, humility, something that doesn’t lend itself to quick and ready judgements.
Elusive,
I don’t see how the female variety is any less pernicious than the male one, so I don’t buy it. Besides, the Man sez that both sexes shall be chaste until marriage and faithful during, so it’s really kind of a moot point for me.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
Modesty is classically associated with females I think because it is the easiest to see/grade (”are those boobs checked baggage or carry-on?”) and was a big staple of Victorian morality.
Honestly, I think this all goes back to society attempting to control female sexuality and how female sexuality used to be (and today still in some circles) feared and seen as evil. It was a form of control in a way. I mean, what logical reason was and is modesty in a sexual sense not applied to males?
Think about it, if you look on network television and see bare breasts, people will be all up in arms, but if you see a bare male chest, then no big deal.
@ Renee,
“…all goes back to society attempting to control female sexuality and how female sexuality used to be (and today still in some circles) feared and seen as evil. It was a form of control in a way. “
Yes, it was control. Very necessarily so, IMHO. Let female sexuality out of the box and you get what we have right now, with female sexuality figuratively running down the gutters, resulting in broken families (or no families at all), marginalized men, stunted girls, aimless boys, and social disorder. Unrestrained female sexuality is the social pattern of the urban ghetto or the Sub-Saharan Africa.
Men were controlled too in Victorian society and, regrettably, continue to be so to this day. But control for men wasn’t sexual in nature. It was monetary.
Control isn’t necessarily bad. Particularly when one is dealing with fallen men and women who fail to control themselves.
“I mean, what logical reason was and is modesty in a sexual sense not applied to males?”
I think the logical reason for it may be found here: it is because there isn’t much use for guys to be sexually modest. Women aren’t switched on by guys’ bare chests like men are for womens’ bare chests (see this post for what does turn women on…scary). So a dude strutting around in a bikini isn’t alluring; it’s just gross.
Now where there is a need for male modesty is in displays of higher value, such as cars, clothing, house, etc. You know, things that make the female all hot for a guy but is actually a turn off when the sexes are reversed.
Yes, it was control. Very necessarily so, IMHO. Let female sexuality out of the box and you get what we have right now, with female sexuality figuratively running down the gutters, resulting in broken families (or no families at all), marginalized men, stunted girls, aimless boys, and social disorder.
Ok, this is where we differ in opinion. This just reeks of the old belief of female sexuality as being inherently evil and male sexuality being ok. And believe it or not, not all men and women want to have a family, especially kids. I just don’t think that ALL the blame on what you mentioned should lay at the feet of female sexuality.
So a dude strutting around in a bikini isn’t alluring; it’s just gross.
I think it depends on if he has a great bod. Just saying…..
I’m not saying there’s no issues regarding female sexuality, but one can say the same about male sexuality.
“This just reeks of the old belief of female sexuality as being inherently evil and male sexuality being ok.”
Only in the same way that the Confederate battle flag–a symbol of liberty and of rebellion against oppression to some–reeks of its association with slavery.
One doesn’t necessarily follow the other.
One can believe that female sexuality needs to be put back in a box and not want to return to the mores of 1890. One can also believe that female sexuality is inherently evil and not think that male sexuality is inherently any better.
In fact, the Victorians were the opposite. They believed that female sexuality was better, more pure, and that male sexuality was dirty and roguish. 200 years later, we get what we have now.
“I’m not saying there’s no issues regarding female sexuality, but one can say the same about male sexuality.”
Perhaps we’re talking past each other. Out-of-control male sexuality would be just as bad…if we had it truly uncontrolled male sexuality. But I contend we don’t…our society very much applies controls to male sexuality.
I realize this is an older post, but I had a couple things to add (none that would be too popular with the general readership – but neither would it be particularly tasteful to anyone sympathetic to feminism).
Like EW, I reference God of Christianity as the moral backdrop to my life, so keep in mind that what I am saying comes from this worldview.
Pro-Male / Anti-Feminist Tech said the following:
This is very similar to what I’ve seen on some feminist blogs when it comes to the definition of physical “femininity”. Why is femininity always coming from the stance of what masculinity likes?
Renee said this on modesty…
She’s absolutely right that modesty for women is a form of control on sexuality. But she’s wrong in thinking its a bad thing. I also think she’s wrong that there is no modest code for men…there is. I’ve seen it first-hand – and I’ve seen immodest men aplenty on tv without nakedness. You can’t use victorian definitions for applying modesty to chests, so you can’t use a man without a shirt vs women and breasts as an example of victorian modesty controlling female sexuality because women’s breasts were as everyday then as a man’s bare chest was – if not more. Necklines were so low to make breastfeeding easier (pop one out via style of the ‘immodest’ extreme la leche clubs that EW loves so much – amazing the tidbits of info you garner when researching breast feeding and renaissance gowns!). But men were also held to modesty standards. Their trousers didn’t hang loosley around their hips so you could see the abdominal muscles as they trailed to the genital area like you see today in Abercrombi & Fitch adverts (and yes, that’s immodest and does make a girl stare); they were practically around their chests. For the longest time, men would only go shirtless in the company of other men or around their wives – if a lady was present, on came the shirt. It was immodest to be caught in your skivvies around a woman and to have bare leg showing (keep those stockings and garters on, men). It was also customary to show modesty in speech and behavior – you didn’t drink strong drinks or smoke cigars around a lady (brandy was reserved to after-dinner hours in the den where women were not allowed) nor was it acceptable to be vulgar, lewd, or brawly around a woman. There were standards for male modesty that controlled their sexuality just as much as women – its just that the modern day woman is not so readily willing or able to recognize the examples that history gives us of this.
(However, we also know that whorehouses were places where men could do all these things in the presence of a female without censorship)
Now my actual point – my argument against both Pro/Anti and Renee is the same – God did not create man (or woman) in a vaccuum. First, he created us for HIM. But he created us both male and female for eachother.
Its not a popular thought in today’s society to think that the female gender was created for men (for God saw that something was missing in just creating one gender) and that the female gender also requires the male to reciprocate. He created exactly what the male needed to make the world perfect when he created women by creating a gender who needed him.
And I think that with this world-view, it is not inappropriate to define certain aspects of masculinity and femininity; manhood and womanhood; male modesty and female modesty within a framework that considers the gender whose needs they were meant to fill.
So men will continue to shave their faces if their wives (or girlfriends or the female populace they care about) find this attractive and women will continue to shave their legs and armpits for the same reason. (Sorry for the simplistic example)
I just think that defining manhood and womanhood completely without consideration for the opposite results in an incomplete picture.