During an appearance with Oprah, the cultural and social empress of matriarchy in America, Mamas and Papas founder John Phillips’ daughter Mackenzie Phillips alleged that she had an incestuous, ten year relationship with her father. Mackenzie claims that her father raped her when she was nineteen years old, and after that they had consensual sex until she was impregnated by him some ten years later. Because John Phillips is dead, there’s no way to corroborate the story. It could well be a lie, but given the smashing of sexual mores that occurred in the late 20th century – especially in the circles John Phillips ran in – I wouldn’t rule it out. However, I am highly dubious about the rape claim. In fact, if there was a sexual relationship, my bet is that daughter was every bit as responsible as daddy, especially given the fact that she was an adult at the time of the alleged incest.
However, what is really telling about this sordid tale, which is being belched out by the media in the typically putrid manner of contemporary popular discourse, is that Mackenzie, a junkie and minor actress/performer, clearly sees it as a great opportunity for self-promotion and empowerment. She is calling herself a “victim” and a “survivor,” and using the story to portray herself as the savior of other poor, victimized incest survivors. Naturally, the underlying assumption is that there are legions of girls out there being raped by their fathers on a regular basis, and if brave heroes like Mackenzie don’t tell the world the most disgusting details of their own lives these girls will never be saved.
Although there are a number of things deeply wrong with this interpretation, perhaps the biggest flaw lies in the assumption that a woman like Mackenzie is actually a victim. Let’s lay aside the dubious rape claim and look at the facts as she states them:
- She began an incestuous relationship with her father at the age of nineteen.
- She carried on with him for ten years.
- She eventually was impregnated by him while she was married to a man, and then aborted the child.
If all of the above is true, the one and only positive thing in there is that she eventually stopped having sex with her father, and that certainly isn’t much to brag about! As low as people may consider adultresses, wanton sluts, or even crack whores, Mackenzie Phillips outdoes them all. And now she expects a pat on the back and adulation (and possibly some much needed smack money from sales of her forthcoming memoir).
What is really sad is that she probably will reap some reward for spilling her guts on the national stage. I heard some women call in to talk shows voicing their support for this piece of trash, saying such things as “Good for her! Women need to speak out to help survivors.”
So what we have is a prime example of a culture that will excuse, pity, and even congratulate people who perpetrate one of the most heinous of acts. This is matriarchy run amok, unrestrained and displaying its excesses. One often hears of “unrestrained masculinity” and the evils thereof, but the concept of unrestrained femininity – although perfectly valid – is difficult for Americans to grasp. Perhaps people fail to recognize it because it has become so pervasive, like the smell of manure on a farm, that we no longer notice it.
However, some women are taking things so far that they run the risk of ruining what’s left of the veneer of civilization. Female Maculinist found a story about one Aimee Louise Sword, a 35-year-old woman from the Detroit area, who committed a despicable act with her son, citing the criminal female rapper Lil’Kim as her inspiration.
Ms. Sword apparently gave her son up for adoption some ten years ago, but was recently inspired to find him, which she did through an online search. She found the boy, now in his teens, seduced him, and then began having sex with him. This story may not be as popular with the Oprah crowd as Mackenzie Phillips’, but it’s part of the same trend. Interestingly, because the woman cannot realistically portray herself as a victim (at least not yet — let’s see what her attorney comes up with), this story has been left out of national news. The police involved have expressed horror and deep pity for the boy, who will undoubtedly be scarred for life by the incident, but they seem to prefer that, for the sake of the boy, the story is swept under the rug as soon as possible.
This is the masculine response to these incidents. Just as the men of prehistoric Europe threw those who committed unspeakable crimes, such as treason or perversion, into bogs (where, ironically, they were sometimes very well preserved), men today would prefer not to exalt disgusting acts of incest by throwing pity parties for people like Ms. Phillips.
Exalting them is exactly what is being done when Oprah puts Mackenzie onstage, promoting her book and inviting the world to sympathize with her. Unrestrained femininity will use every excuse and any act to gain the attention and sympathy it craves. As this goes on, women will have to keep coming up with more and more shocking acts in a race to the bottom of the pit. Although one can only speculate as to what might be next, perhaps we will soon see tales of cannibalism or giving birth to human-chimp hybrids on Oprah.
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{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
I always thought the story of Job was very strange. However it’s interesting that the Old Testament doesn’t take the woman-as-perpetual-victim view of things.
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men today would prefer not to exalt disgusting acts of incest by throwing pity parties for people like Ms. Phillips.
Call me a masochist – I actually read through all 11 pages of comments on HuffPo about this latest “atrocity” to boost Oprah’s ratings and book club sales. The results were about the same as with the Hofstra rape-liar – of the posters with female appearing screen names there was almost unanimous sympathy. Among the ones with male appearing screen names, there was a lot of skepticism, questioning, some cynicism, and a bit of anger. Most of the women talked about how “brave” she was for going public with the story, and how “healing” it supposedly was going to be for her.
What struck me the most was something I termed many years ago as “dining on emotional roadkill.” Even if I stipulate that the story could be true, and going public with it could be therapeutic for this basket case, what in the world would possess any sane human being to shell out good money to bury their faces in emotional feces?
Having become totally unimpressed with the whole victim personna that so many women have, my reaction to them was that they were like emotional dung beetles. Thank god I didn’t end up trapped in a marriage to one of them.
It goes beyond exalting the acts, there is something about modern women which makes them seek this stuff out, no matter what the cost to themselves or anyone else. I think a healthy reaction to all this is severe nausea. They feed on it.
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Just as we have more women teachers molesting the boys, we are going to have more of the incest going on and more mothers getting caught.
At some point, assuming western civilization continues, there is going to be threshold where people realize that women are sexual predators as much or more than men and then things are going to go crazy. It is going to take a lot of incidents before people stop turning a blind eye to it. Much more than it should.
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“Unrestrained femininity will use every excuse and any act to gain the attention and sympathy it craves.”
Perhaps most women (especially the Oprah crowd), on some level, understand that it benefits them if society sympathizes with the likes of Phillips.
If even a woman like her is worthy of attention, understanding, and pity, think how much respect, tolerance, and sympathy a “normal” woman is due, no matter what kinds of choices she makes.
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Oh…my…god… just reading that first section about the Phillip’s, I want to vomit.
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This is from wiki:
“Thomas Nagy, Ph.D., Adjunct Assistant Clinical Professor at Stanford University School of Medicine states that it’s impossible to say that incest that continues into adulthood is necessarily conducted on a consensual level. “When the victim encounters that abuser again in adulthood, in that moment, they’ve dissociated into an adolescent mindset again,” he points out.”
BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT! What nonsense!
Her father did NOT have her locked in a dungeon, Fritzl-style. If you have sex with your father when you’re an adult, you are financially independent, you are married to another man, and you don’t live at home, that is consensual. You chose to commit incest, and STFU about being a victim!
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O, most wicked speed, to post
With such dexterity to incestuous sheets!
When did society get so caught up in emulating its dregs as exemplified in pop culture and druggie celebrities? This female was screwed up and thus mentally abused a long time before ‘affair’ with her father.
Still, sexual abuse by male relatives still seems too common to me. Have encountered often enough for mere twenty years: West and East alike. However, I do understand some misandry beneath what she’s saying and doing. More grist for “the men are evil” mill. More seeing men as predators.
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Incest among adults most often happens among relatives who meet each other as adults (due to adoption or separation).
The incest taboo grows due to proximity in the developmental years. Kids who grew up with each other on Israeli kibbutz viewed each other as brother & sister; those that married experienced severe marital difficulties.
Relatives who meet each other for the first time later in life often experience extremely strong attraction to each other.
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Those who read the niceguy forum are familiar with the “girls gone wild” section. You can read that section and see how year after year female behavior has become increasingly worse.
The two stories mentioned in this post and the woman who was recently exalted for having 16 abortions just kicked the severity up 10 fold. We’re talking about a whole new level here and deemed totally acceptable by the public.
What’s next?
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Ms. Sword is maintaining her innocence which is her right.
I wouldn’t put it out the realm of possibility this is some sort of horrendous over reach by the police or child protective services or something. I’ll give her the same presumption of innocence I gave the Duke 3 and the Hofstra boys.
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I don’t get it. I posted a comment, I didn’t see the comment, so I tried posting it again, it said “you’re trying to post something twice”, then hours later I still don’t see it. Are the comments moderated, is that why I’m not seeing it?
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Sorry, Tarl, for some reason your comments were going into the spam queue (probably the email due to automated regular expression parsing). Should be fixed by now, but let me know if there’s still a problem.
FWIW, Phillips mother (Michelle Phillips), John’s ex-wife and the only surviving member of the Mamas and Papas calls bs on it. Said that John Phillips had many, many flaws but this was not one of them. That it is a transparent attempt to sell copies of her book and is shameful.
Generally, wives have very good ideas of men are cheating on them, let alone something funky with their daughters. John Phillips could have had any woman, outside his wife. He’d choose his daughter? Men are generally hardwired to avoid that, hormonally speaking.
Now, icky is Morgan Freeman marrying his grand-daughter (adopted but still) and Woody Allen and his step-daughter.
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In life, there are some things that we just don’t want to believe even if they are true.
I refuse to believe that this happened with Phillips and her father. There is something so sick about a parent having sexual relations with their child. If a child especially a girl(sorry fellas) isn’t safe in her own home then where can she possibly be safe.
I really think Phillips years of hardcore drug abuse may have caused her to have all sorts of weird dreams, episodes etc.. that never actually occurred. Hasn’t she admitted to using psychedelic drugs in the past.
Furthermore, she went along consensually after the first time so she isn’t as much of a victim as she would like to make herself out to be.
citing the criminal female rapper Lil’Kim as her inspiration.
I can’t ever recall hearing lil kim rap about such garbage, if she did people in hip-hop would turn their backs on her. bottom line,that mom was sick.
Zed wrote what in the world would possess any sane human being to shell out good money to bury their faces in emotional feces
Blame that on an overly voyeuristic American culture(which is spreading folks) that we have and those who deem no personal anecdote to private to share.
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If a child especially a girl(sorry fellas) isn’t safe in her own home then where can she possibly be safe.
Which is why it’s so important we’re very selective about who we’re with, who we trust with our children (physical abuse of children is more commonly perpetrated by women, if I recall correctly) and what we discuss with our kids.
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Er, Michelle Phillips was not Mackenzie Phillips’s mother; her mother was a woman named Susan Adams Phillips. There isn’t much about her on the web.
Nor are all the original members of the Mamas and the Papas deceased. They comprise John Phillips, Michelle Phillips, Denny Doherty, Cass Elliott, Scott McKenzie, and Jill Gibson: as far as I can make out, McKenzie and Gibson are still alive. John Sebastian, sometimes associated with the group, though not a member, is also still alive.
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bhetti Which is why it’s so important we’re very selective about who we’re with, who we trust with our children
agreed and doubly so for women who bring around “new” boyfriends.
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In the interview a tearful Mackenzie Phillips told of being seduced by Mick Jagger, who said “I’ve been waiting for this since you were ten years old.”
She told this story on Howard Stern years ago–not in tears but with nostalgic good humor, describing the experience as “wonderful.” Perhaps it means nothing; maybe she’s changed her mind about things over the years, but you have to wonder.
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The incest story has been around for years. The only reason it is newsworthy now is because Mackenzie Phillips is using it to sell her book. Clearly she is exploiting the issue, true or not, merely to boost sales of her book. Would anyone care if not for her pushing this issue? Would Oprah want her on her show if not for the incent angle? It’s a horrible way to make money but she’s a junkie and they will do anything for money, certainly she has lived her life with that type of thinking.
Funniest thing was her brother’s response to the story: Tamerlane Phillips, 38: “My family is and always will be a decrepit bowl of dog urine compared to Nityananda of Ganeshpuri. That is how great Nityananda is.” The Indian yogi died in 1961. “Worship Nityananda, not the Phillips family. Nityananda can protect you,” said Tamerlane.
And he’s the sane one in the family!!!!
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Jesus, what kind of fucked up parents name a kid Tamerlane? One of history’s greatest monsters, yaay, great name for the boy!
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Like all these stories it is plausible. It will certainly gain some circulation. However, I am more inclined to disbelieve this than think it is true. I think we all know that people are inclined to fantasize about their lives and particularly about their relationship with their parents. I have lived long enough to have experienced the way humans can create the most bazaar fantasise and be totally convinced that they are true.
People can also assume a fantasy identity which they harvest from elsewhere. So probably since incest has been in the news recently there will be many more people coming forwards to say that it has happened to them. May be these things should be put in the same category as false accusations.
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Let’s just say it’s all true and real…
Why the HELL would anyone, man or woman, want to get on television and blab about all of this stuff to the entire world???
Another downside to Feminism: A total loss of any sense of discretion. Tell all to all!!!!
Ugh.
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I have a story to relate, although it isn’t Matriarchy as Oprah, but as a social system that can used as an additional support. When my daughter was 3 and 1/2, my mother-in-law had just had a nervous breakdown, and been hospitalized in the Ho Ho Hotel. Consequently, everyone in my wifes family: stepfather, mother, sister, aunt, etc., had engaged various social workers, and psychiatrists; but most especially self-help gurus like Bradshaw, to help them understand the “shame” that had been passed down through the generations in their family. Since any kind of “conventional” support system like church was “patriarchal” they found common refuge in groups that rejected much of what had been “tried before.”
Not long after, I came home from work (my wife was out of town on business) and was met by my wifes stepfather. He had been discussing my daughter with his therapist; especially some “distressing” things she had said I had said. We used to play an innocent game, maybe 2 or 3 times, where when getting her a glass of lemonade, I would ask her if she wanted “m-n-ade” or “pee pee.” Of course, she would angrily say “m-n-ade, and I would give her her lemonade. Somehow, that became an invitation to oral sex! Anyway, she was taken away, interviewed and given a physical examination. Of course, she was old enough to make clear NOTHING bad had happened, no amount of puppets or coaxing, or repressed memories could change that fact. But for 24 hours I went through hell, and my inlaws divorced soon afterwards. Neither of them apologised, “they were only looking after the welfare of a little girl they loved (and were obsessed with).” We even went into therapy several months after “the incident,” and even the therapist didn’t seem to see an apology as step number one. They spent the next 18 years trying to undermine my relationship with my wife, and finally accomplished their goal right after her Breast Cancer. Now, I am no saint, but if they could manipulate the system and destroy me, then there would be no need to apologise. The social system was like a church, where everyone who didn’t practice a faith, or have a group of normal friends, but instead congregated as a flock of feminists, failed professionals, and people generally over educated in nothing in particular, and USED an “anti-” system to shore up their negative world view.
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I almost forgot to mention, my stepfather is a lawyer, and my mother-in-law, had several more breakdowns, yet went on to complete a master’s degree in sociology, went into private practice, as LPSW (I think thats what its called), and even hypnotizes! OMG!
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Damn Tusten,
that’s a helluva story. but its not the first of the sort that i’ve heard. that type of stuff scares the daylights out of me. granted, its the few bad apples who do actually ruin it for good guys out there, but the fact that social workers are given power on par with the Gestapo is frightening to say the least.
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Rape?
I doubt it. I can give her the benefit of the doubt, it is likely that she was too damn drugged to be cognizant of anything, which erases a good deal of her victim status. I believe she is engaging in backwards rationalizations and justifications, at the violation of this taboo.
The drugs may play a role. She admits this, it’s not improbable that her drugged out father could have had sex with her while she was in a drugged state. But she is no victim.
I read the comments at ABC, and found the lot of them to be thoroughly disingenuous.
She is not the victim she is being made out to be. Apart from the initial rape by her own father, a thoroughly degenerate and despicable act, that in generosity I give her, she admits that everything else was consensual.
Which negates her victimhood entirely.
Second, she thoroughly owns her drug abuse, she has complete responsibility over it. Whatever occurred due to whatever effects it laid on her, in a sense, imply a degree of consent and responsibility.
Junkies are not victims. I’ve known some. Been very close to a few. They get my empathy and some pity, but I hold them thoroughly responsible for their drug abuse and all of its consequences.
.
She is not a real victim, and the media’s gloating, the orgy of victimization, does a disservice to real victims of childhood sexual abuse.
But they don’t really care about this, do they?
She no doubt has great confusion, and real emotional pain. After she was seduced by the ultimate authority figure, to violate the most sacred of taboos. But at an adult age we cannot speak of incest “victims†without destroying the very meaning of the word victim.
I suspect that such stories are growing more common than most are comfortable considering. I suspect there is social wreckage from the 60’s that will continue to surface generation after generation. I’ve noticed similar things in a couple of families, and be it loathsome there is an element of power and control in the hands of the older figure.
There are some daughters who all far too willing and loving participants in a sort of twisted and secret love…
This doesn’t mitigate victimization, but it does show not only how emotionally complex the whole matter can become. The parent, both parents actually because this stuff is usually never that secret, bear ultimate responsibility. But adult offspring also have responsibility. A child may be too traumatized and conditioned to cry out. Confused and violated. But an adult?
Adults have responsibility and agency. And no excuses.
True story: I once knew someone, let’s call her V., whose best friend in high school was basically the school’s slut. V.’s friend was hyper-sexualized to a degree almost unimaginable. Imagine a 14 year old girl who has had 30 admitted partners. One day V. was invited to her friend’s house for the first time. This was around their junior year, after having known each other since middle school.
V. went over and sat around in great discomfort chatting in the living room while her friend walked around flirting with and sitting on the laps of the girl’s father and 6 or 7 of his biker friends.
V. excused herself quickly and went home. Later conversations with her friend revealed the blindingly obvious fact that this girl not only had been sleeping with her father since around 7, but also had been “serving” her father’s friends from a very young age.
This was what the girl was raised up in, it was what she knew as normal since the age 7. By her teens she was an all too willing participant and was basically soon thereafter the town slut.
V.’ distanced herself from the friendship after her friend tried to seduce her during a sleep over. Over the years the two kept in touch here and there, at last reckoning her friend had married some really religious Church guy, settled down, had a few kids, but was still very much lifting up her skirt to just about anyone with a cock.
Technically the girl was a victim from 7 – 16, but really long before then she had become an extremely enthusiastic participant. Deep inside this messed with the girl’s sense of sexuality and boundaries. It also left her with a real degree of anger. But at the end of the day, at a certain point, she really wasn’t a victim. This happens more than I’m remotely comfortable considering.
As for Oprah – there is a concept found in many traditional cultures. Not the least of which are both the old Christian West and the Islamic East, but we finds this principle elsewhere.
- One who popularizes decadence and depravity also participates in the depravity and is oneself depraved.
Oprah is vicariously participating in this depravity, benefitting from it financially through her audience and advertisement, and has indulged in it’s evil. In a real sense.
Not in all cases, for example, it might be necessary to report depravity as an example, commentary on something more important, even as a warning call when it becomes prevalent. This comes under necessity. In such cases there is a moral given as an example to learn from, and a shaming of the depraved. But spreading news of depravity for fame and gain is in itself worse than the initial depravity.
In Oprah’s case, popularizing famous rock star fathers porking their drug addled daughters, and presenting it in a glamorous, tragic, drama, is the epitome of evil.
A Subtle evil, a feminine evil, but an evil all the same. She just effectively sanctioned father/daughter incest. Yeah great job Harpo. Thank you for giving another cunty stab into what few things remain sacred in our culture.
And let’s thank her backers, as well. She may not admit it, but she just did it: effectively spread a “meme” and a very powerful one. Just as when a certain not to be mentioned rock star admitted an erotic attraction to his daughter and laughed it off.
So are Philips’ publishers. Human beings mime behavior, in cultures we take exemplars to follow, even to hell if that’s where the pied piper calls us. And all too often people follow that call.
There is a reason that are an elect and masses exist in every single culture around the world – even the most egalitarian tribal grass eaters. Seriously. Find me a bunch of peaceful naked grass eaters weaving baskets in a collective longhouse hut in the middle of a jungle and I will show you, in their midst, the masses, and an elect who lead the masses. Who are their exemplars: examples to follow.
Human nature is consistent irrespective of clime, race, and culture. Realizing the truth of this statement gives us tremendous power over our own destinies, and potentially over the destinies of others. People can be manipulated with a mere suggestion and whisper. And often are. Social engineering, public relations, engineering consent and public opinion, are trivial and well understood social sciences. This is no conspiracy theory, it is documented and published social science. Any dolt can Google up Bernays or Lippman or far more recent things.
The old English saying goes: “The devil likes dull edges” – the most effective cultural and social engineering can be done in an atmosphere of chaos – a dull lingering fog.
Claustiwitz often spoke of “the fog of war” – if there is to be a culture war, those taking the lead in trying to push for a new order will use confusion and fog and dull edges
If you think that anything appears in the media accidentally, and un-calculated, then this is, with all due respect, frighteningly naive. If something appears having been checked and filtered by countless committees then it thus appears for a reason. There is of course the plausible and likely reason of a victim’s plight, another more plausible reason of sensational tawdry news boosting ratings…
And the real reason – which could possibly disturb us greatly. I do not pretend to know what such a real reason may be, but it has nothing to do with her bloody guilt over daddy’s screwing her.
As for Aimee Louise Sword, she is an utterly fouled little bint and a whore and should be shamed in public until she is an old miserable hag. Her story is more foul than the Philips one because of the breech of the sacred bond and trust of motherhood. She violated one of the most sacred and solemn trusts in nature and society. And all for what?
Her vagina itched?
She gave her son up for adoption and then committed incest with him. What the hell is this going to do to the boy’s mind? Did she remotely consider the effects on his mind, his psyche, his emotional and sexual development? The possibility of his being psychologically and developmentally warped for a good deal of his life? All for her selfish vaginal itch for her son?
Since execution for incest is no longer the norm, it is proposed that as punishment Aimee Sword is henceforth condemned to floor mopping duties at el-Harem el-Kamal.
As an incestress, of course, her flesh is far too foul and polluted to receive the honor of the baronial spear and seed. She may, however, mop floors with her hair. And with diligence she may redeem herself to once weekly fellating and bukkake duties, and occasional pole dances. Though I doubt that a woman as foul as her may even be worthy of an occasional spraying of seed on her face. But mopping floors with her hair certainly suits her.
This is generous, I mean, should not a whore have a chance at applying herself at what she does second best?
EWWWW… I just had a strange realization – her picture looks a bit like Penelope Trunk.
Weird…. very weird. Good lord, will someone banish that thought from my head…..
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I think you miss the point of what constitutes a “victim” it is not someone innocent of any wrong doing rather in this case it is a person whose foundation of right and wrong was prevented by the one person who was suppose to protect, teach and love them. Just because the law states that at the age of 18 you are an adult does not make it so. Many people remain at the maturity level of children well into their 20′s, as I am sure you can personally attest to, a child made to misunderstand a relationship with a man who was suppose to be her parent, fueled by drugs and alcohol , is not a willing participant rather a confused and disturbed person. I hope that she is telling the truth for the mere fact that you would be correct that would be disgusting to benefit from such a horrendous story but that doesn’t mean the telling of it evil nor is it exalting a woman by putting it out there for the world to know. If you shame a people into silence who will ever speak the truth. Call it a matriarch or call it a very narrow minded sexist who writes a blathering article on a subject he knows nothing about nor bothered to research before hand, but keep up the good work.
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Well, I really didn’t learn much from your screed, except that you disagree for nebulous reasons but would rather insult the author than discuss them in detail like an adult.
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